Female Trump Cards: Sex and Rejection

[Poon King]

Ok put yourself in my shoes for a moment,my main plate bestie died,her father diagnosed with cancer and her uncle got chems splashing all over his face burning his lips(all in the same day),and she calls me....tell her to shut up? Nah bro thats too much

Don't be stupid.

For the 800th time.. I'm only a d!ck to women when they bring it on themselves via trying to manipulate me, control me or dominate the relationship. Obviously I'm talking about when women cry to get their way.. NOT when they have a death in the family.

Use your brain.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Why is that?

The rest of what you said is true. But WHY do you say their "must" be a reason to respect a woman?

This isn't just for women in terms of intimacy only, this goes for people in general in all situations. Think of someone you respect. Why do you respect them? You don't respect them 'just because', there is something about them whether it be the way they carry themselves or their accomplishments that you respect. You'd respect an Olympic athlete much more than a homeless crackhead asking for some change off the street. Just like you said, you lose respect for a woman the more you get away with. All people are like this. If a woman were willing to walk away from a man who treats her badly, then this man is more likely to respect said woman (unless of course she deserved to be mistreated).

 

[3agle 3yes]

And MEN.. you really don't want to be with a woman you respect. It just turns you into a pedestalizing white knight.

I agree with @ImTheDoubleGreatest! partially with this one, that statement is confusing.

I respect women who show maturity, they are few and far between...doesn't mean I pedestalize them though.

Respecting women for something OTHER than the way they look is a sign of maturity.

Approval seeking, seeking validation and instant gratification are poison for ALL men. It is undoubtedly the cause for all the "white knights" and "betas" behaviors you talk about in the OP.

Going after pvssy and looking for lays are all well and good, but women are cunning (so they should be). If you seek instant gratification and sex is the thing they can manipulate you with then they will...if you are seeking validation then they know rejection will manipulate you too.

Most women want to upper hand (it's natural) and as long as you don't want something from them (namely sex), their trump cards vanish.

 

[bigneil]

And MEN.. you really don't want to be with a woman you respect. It just turns you into a pedestalizing white knight.

What if you have two women you respect?

 

[Mr. Kalikoat]

Pure co-dependence.

I don't see how you are hurting yourself by ghosting a woman who is not on the same page as you, doesn't respect you and never will. Sounds dumb to me.

You tackle the issue from a pure logical point of view. And from a pure logical point of view, you're right. But emotions aren't always logical. I don't know what else I can say about that.

Ever since I joined the manosphere and became red-pilled, I've been fighting against my emotions and the only thing that has brought me is misery. Now, instead of fighting against them, I'm embracing them, trying to find the root and causation of why I feel the way I do and try to find an actual proper solution.

Sometimes the solution is easy, sometimes I just need an outsider, preferably a friend or someone else from the manosphere to put things in perspective for me. This forum has helped a great deal with that, including your posts believe it or not.

But sometimes it's not that easy. I dunno if I would go as far as calling myself co-dependent, but hey, maybe I am. I guess I should bring it up next time I see my psychologist. But I don't know, I think you're just assuming too much while knowing too little about me.

If you'll be miserable without a wife and kids then you will be miserable with them too. Usually men who make marriage and kids the "be all end all" of life have low self-esteem and no significant life goals. There is a whole world out there to experience outside of the "family bubble".

What will you do if your wife dies and your kids move to a foreign country? Kill yourself?

You sound like you will be one of those horrible blood sucking parents who cling to their adult children and try to control their lives because you have no life of your own.

Yeah now you're definitely assuming too much.

My life hasn't been easy but to say I have nothing going for me or no life goals is just plain flat out and completely wrong. I live at my own place in one of the better cities in my country, I've started my own business, I work as a freelance graphic designer, I'm about to finish my university degree in 3D digital design, I'm currently doing an internship at an amazing game development company, I work out, I draw and paint in my free time, I make music, play the electric guitar, I like to travel when I can afford it (I'd love to go back to the USA when I can afford it, 't was great when I visited you 'Murricans the last time), I go to the Czech Republic almost every year because it's an awesome country believe it or not (and the women are great there too although a bit shallow), I live a quite busy life, stressful even, but you can't say I haven't seen things, experienced things and done things.

But as I've grown older, I've started to yearn more and more often to actual meaningful companionship. I've done all these awesome things, but you know what would be even more awesome? Sharing these awesome things with someone else, experiencing these awesome things together with someone special. Right now I'm doing most of these things alone and sometimes it makes me feel quite lonely.


So yeah, you're assuming too much and being kind of an ass in the process.

What will I do when my wife dies? Dunno dude, most men die before their wives die so I don't worry too much about that. Even if she would die before me, I'd at least be happy that she shared her life with me.

What will I do when my kids move to another country? Nothing except for trying to stay in touch with them through Skype and other means, and hopefully they'll love me enough to visit me and stay with me during my last moments when I'm on my deathbed.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Most women want to upper hand (it's natural) and as long as you don't want something from them (namely sex), their trump cards vanish.

Yeah why exactly do they always want the upper hand? I will never give it to them ever, but I tend to notice small subtleties in their language and manner in which they slowly try shifting the relationship to their terms. Usually it may seem petty, but they do try to grab a little more and more each time. Why is this?

 

[bigneil]

Yeah why exactly do they always want the upper hand? I will never give it to them ever, but I tend to notice small subtleties in their language and manner in which they slowly try shifting the relationship to their terms. Usually it may seem petty, but they do try to grab a little more and more each time. Why is this?

Of course women want the upper hand. Men are bigger. Women can only control us psychologically.

Beware: if you game her right and have her pining for you, she will immediately start scheming to flip the script. As long as you know she is doing it, you can be prepared and maintain control. But it will require patience, cunning, good looks and other women to pull it off.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Of course women want the upper hand. Men are bigger. Women can only control us psychologically.

Beware: if you game her right and have her pining for you, she will immediately start scheming to flip the script. As long as you know she is doing it, you can be prepared and maintain control. But it will require patience, cunning, good looks and other women to pull it off.

Good point, thank you.

 

[sazc]

Yeah why exactly do they always want the upper hand? I will never give it to them ever, but I tend to notice small subtleties in their language and manner in which they slowly try shifting the relationship to their terms. Usually it may seem petty, but they do try to grab a little more and more each time. Why is this?

This is something I am contemplating right now. We had a situation this morning where he told me to do something. My first instinct was 'maybe I can cajole him into doing it'. The event itself was insignificant - go lock the door and turn up the volume on the tv so the kids wont hear us - neither one of us wanted to get out of the warm bed. I realized if I did it, I would appear submissive to him and he would like that, so I did. Need to keep him happy, right? But I've been thinking about the moment and trying to figure out - exactly what would it have bought me if I had managed to get him to do it? And what would that have paid out in terms of the relationship? Why would that have been good for me. I think the answer is nothing, no payout, not good for the relationship.

Now I contemplate - what was my motivation? Because if I can figure out my motivation, I can better balance my own handling of situations moving forward.

I really dont think that females understand how they can behave in a manner that will actually elicit happier men and a better relationship for the females. idk, maybe everyone is simply afraid of getting hurt. I realize that's a simplistic answer, but I am sure it is part of the answer.

 

[Poon King]

This is something I am contemplating right now. We had a situation this morning where he told me to do something. My first instinct was 'maybe I can cajole him into doing it'. The event itself was insignificant - go lock the door and turn up the volume on the tv so the kids wont hear us - neither one of us wanted to get out of the warm bed. I realized if I did it, I would appear submissive to him and he would like that, so I did. Need to keep him happy, right? But I've been thinking about the moment and trying to figure out - exactly what would it have bought me if I had managed to get him to do it? And what would that have paid out in terms of the relationship? Why would that have been good for me. I think the answer is nothing, no payout, not good for the relationship.

Now I contemplate - what was my motivation? Because if I can figure out my motivation, I can better balance my own handling of situations moving forward.

I really dont think that females understand how they can behave in a manner that will actually elicit happier men and a better relationship for the females. idk, maybe everyone is simply afraid of getting hurt. I realize that's a simplistic answer, but I am sure it is part of the answer.

My guess?

Like most women.. you are not comfortable with peace, quiet and consistency. You are also insecure and need constant reminders of your man's strength, power and abilities.

Why do you think a man cannot just say "I love you" or "You are beautiful" to a woman ONCE and never say it again? Women are deeply insecure and need constant reminders. Not just of a man's devotion, but of where she stands in all areas of life. Ironically.. it comes from a need for control. Women constantly wonder.. "Am I still beautiful?" and "Does he still love me?". Its very juvenile and only beta males have the patience and generously to tolerate this nonsense for extended periods of time.

When alpha males get into LTR's they usually lose interest (emotionally) in the woman pretty early. But they keep her around for sex, convenience and sometimes political reasons while f*cking others on the side.

 

[Steady Eddie]

What you say Poon is all obectively true, no arguing about that. But I'd like to say that this mindset doesn't come naturally to men. The reason why "beta males" exist and are the majority isn't because of some feminist conspiracy or social programming, but because it's an innate part of our biology.

It's only natural for men to care about women and eventually fall in love with them and when that happens, everything you say will fall on deaf ears.

I've noticed myself recently that my red pill knowledge is often in conflict with my deepest feelings and desires. I KNOW treating women like dirt works, I KNOW flaking works and I KNOW putting your foot down when a woman acts out of line works, but it is HARD, damn near impossible, to do these things when you actually care deeply about the woman you're with.

When a woman I love slips up I don't want to NEXT her, I want to forgive her, be with her and tell her everything will be alright. I know I should NEXT her, I know there are plenty of other fish in the sea, but doing so is HARD, it HURTS. And it makes me put all my red pill knowledge to question. Because how can "the right thing to do" hurt so much?

I know because of this fact a lot of DJs opt out of love and meaningful relationships altogether, and if that makes them happy, more power to them. But I need love and relationships in my life. I eventually want to find a wife and have children with her. I don't want to die alone and miserable.

I think you have to be some kind of jaded motherf*cker or sociopath if this "alpha" behavior comes naturally to you.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong Poon, I'm just saying that it's much easier said than done.

I feel that not enough DJs focus on this aspect. We all seem to know HOW to deal with women, but nobody so far managed to explain to me how to deal with MYSELF and my emotions. I feel this is the case because most men, especially DJs, don't dare to talk about their deepest emotions because they think it makes them look like weak "beta males". But that is just dumb. I don't care how much of an "alpha" you are, unless you're a sociopath, you'll have emotions just like the rest of us and I think if we really want to help each other we should be willing to open up about our emotions and discuss them.

That's just my 2 cents.

As you say, 'easier said than done'.

What I'm about to suggest isn't something you'll try or even think about until you reach your wit's end with a significant other.
So read this and forget about it, until that time comes.

Your emotions are informed by your five senses and the things you eat on a daily basis. It stands to reason if you change these things you'll change how you feel.
For instance take the heroin addict. He has reduced his life to one point of interest. His next fix. Does he care about his friends and family? Whether his soon to be ex girlfriend is acting out? Or anything else for that matter. Of course not.
The tin foil and lighter are his friends. The needle is his family. The poppy resin is by far the most devout of women. Pleasing in every aspect.

We can be made to feel anything or almost nothing at all.

If you researched everything you watched on television before you viewed it. You would have a better idea of what you want to see as oppose to sitting there and waiting for something to grab your attention.
I'm trying to point out your viewing habits are not your own.

Did you know eating peanuts, increases your libido?
Chlorophyll helps oxygenate the blood which among other things reduces\eliminates tiredness during waking hours.
I say all this because it wasn't until I changed my diet that I noticed a change in my behaviour and on some level my personality. Prior to the new diet I was a real people pleaser. I grew up thinking self sacrifice and helping others was the way one ought to live his life.
People (friends and acquaintances) saw me (as a consequence) as a doormat and used me accordingly. Women also viewed me in this way, although I was more weary of them. The problem was compounded by my nervous disposition. I was always anxious. I tried meditation for a number of years, but this only relieved the symptoms not the cause.
It wasn't until a number of months later when I had removed all traces of caffeine, salt and sugar from my diet that I became aware of a stillness in my person.
This was tested a number of times at work. So it isn't me just saying it.
Gone is the people pleaser, replaced by a stoic who despises the company of others. A vast majority of the people I interact with on a daily basis, aren't worth shlt anyway.
Gone is my approach anxiety. Although now I don't feel that little rush of excitement when I receive an IOI. A part of me actually feels as though I'm dead. But in a good way if that makes sense.

The biggest hurdle to trying this is will power. I was primed for this change (being a vegetarian) yet I still lacked the mental fortitude. Believe it or not some trying circumstances led me to want to punish myself. It seems the punishment was indeed the cure.

 

[bigneil]

Women constantly wonder.. "Am I still beautiful?" and "Does he still love me?".

This is a key point. As a woman passes through her prime years, she will have certain men who are her anchors - men who assure her of her seductive qualities. As she ages, she will periodically return to these anchors to make sure she "still has it". These are her favorite lovers. Be one of her anchors.

 

[sazc]

My guess?

Like most women.. you are not comfortable with peace, quiet and consistency. You are also insecure and need constant reminders of your man's strength, power and abilities.

Why do you think a man cannot just say "I love you" or "You are beautiful" to a woman ONCE and never say it again? Women are deeply insecure and need constant reminders. Not just of a man's devotion, but of where she stands in all areas of life. Ironically.. it comes from a need for control. Women constantly wonder.. "Am I still beautiful?" and "Does he still love me?". Its very juvenile and only beta males have the patience and generously to tolerate this nonsense for extended periods of time.

When alpha males get into LTR's they usually lose interest (emotionally) in the woman pretty early. But they keep her around for sex, convenience and sometimes political reasons while f*cking others on the side.

Okay, so, let me just be clear about one thing - YOU DONT KNOW ME AT ALL
In fact, your continued judging, disrespect, and character assassination and assessment of who I am is very incorrect. I am the opposite of all of your call outs but it's so easy to take what I post and make me one of your personal whipping boys......errr girls.

You could have no clue that the reason I contemplate these scenarios is because I am reading this site, understanding what you guys talk about, and observing my behavior inside of my relationship. If you knew me in the least, you would understand that being self introspective is a VERY normal thing for me. People and their motivations, including myself, fascinate me. I, personally, never stop learning. That is one reason I am here, one reason I post.

That said, I understand that you feel you have important and relevant information that you need to post, and by all means, post. If you could see fit to take a moment and exclude all of your personal judgments, assessments and assassinations, in terms of who (you think) I am, that would be great. Thanks!

 

[Poon King]

Okay, so, let me just be clear about one thing - YOU DONT KNOW ME AT ALL
In fact, your continued judging, disrespect, and character assassination and assessment of who I am is very incorrect. I am the opposite of all of your call outs but it's so easy to take what I post and make me one of your personal whipping boys......errr girls.

You could have no clue that the reason I contemplate these scenarios is because I am reading this site, understanding what you guys talk about, and observing my behavior inside of my relationship. If you knew me in the least, you would understand that being self introspective is a VERY normal thing for me. People and their motivations, including myself, fascinate me. I, personally, never stop learning. That is one reason I am here, one reason I post.

That said, I understand that you feel you have important and relevant information that you need to post, and by all means, post. If you could see fit to take a moment and exclude all of your personal judgments, assessments and assassinations, in terms of who (you think) I am, that would be great. Thanks!

All women are "typical women" until they prove otherwise. Just like all people are "normal" until they prove otherwise.

If I use my typical approach for dealing with, talking to, flirting with and challenging a woman and she responds in a predicable and typical way.. then I will flag her as a typical woman. I consider a woman "different" when she surprises me in some way. This rarely happens.

You are not the first woman claiming to be "different" and you won't be the last. I'll believe it when I see it. Men, as hunters, have to learn to identify patterns if we want to be successful. So we focus on "the rule" more than the "exception". Its just more efficient and effective.

Since you want to learn about men.. here is some insight to the male experience: If a man walks around assuming every woman is a slut, he will get laid more often than a man who assumes every woman is a prude. Likewise.. a man who assumes every woman is manipulative will get manipulated less than a man who assumes every woman is innocent.

 

[sazc]

All women are "typical women" until they prove otherwise. Just like all people are "normal" until they prove otherwise.

If I use my typical approach for dealing with, talking to, flirting with and challenging a woman and she responds in a predicable and typical way.. then I will flag her as a typical woman. I consider a woman "different" when she surprises me in some way. This rarely happens.

You are not the first woman claiming to be "different" and you won't be the last. I'll believe it when I see it. Men, as hunters, have to learn to identify patterns if we want to be successful. So we focus on "the rule" more than the "exception". Its just more efficient and effective.

Since you want to learn about men.. here is some insight to the male experience: If a man walks around assuming every woman is a slut, he will get laid more often than a man who assumes every woman is a prude. Likewise.. a man who assumes every woman is manipulative will get manipulated less than a man who assumes every woman is innocent.

I'm not following the context shift onto 'typical women' and 'normal'. I said being introspective was a very normal thing for me. Self assessing is also a very normal thing for me. Attempting to understand what drives my behavior and choices is a very normal thing for me. These are just things that make up me.

I'm not/have never attempted to belittle anything that has been said around here. In fact, I have said the opposite all over thee boards, and to you in PM.
As penkitten remarked (paraphrasing), she came here to understand what men were experiencing and to be able to better deliver respect. My initial post about recognizing my behavior is about me trying to understand really what my motivations were in that moment. It wasnt asking for you, or anyone, to play arm chair shrink and take my inventory. I was being honest in response to a question that was asked.

Trust is earned, agreed. Sometimes we can come to understand a person just by watching.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

People and their motivations, including myself, fascinate me. I, personally, never stop learning. That is one reason I am here, one reason I post.

Same. That is why I am here as well. However I must ask a rather personal question and you can PM or refuse to answer if you don't want to answer it: How many men and/or women have you been with prior to your current lover?

 

[LLM]

Okay, so, let me just be clear about one thing - YOU DONT KNOW ME AT ALL
In fact, your continued judging, disrespect, and character assassination and assessment of who I am is very incorrect. I am the opposite of all of your call outs but it's so easy to take what I post and make me one of your personal whipping boys......errr girls.

You could have no clue that the reason I contemplate these scenarios is because I am reading this site, understanding what you guys talk about, and observing my behavior inside of my relationship. If you knew me in the least, you would understand that being self introspective is a VERY normal thing for me. People and their motivations, including myself, fascinate me. I, personally, never stop learning. That is one reason I am here, one reason I post.

That said, I understand that you feel you have important and relevant information that you need to post, and by all means, post. If you could see fit to take a moment and exclude all of your personal judgments, assessments and assassinations, in terms of who (you think) I am, that would be great. Thanks!

Poon is deadon. You present yourself as an insecure drama queen. It may have been cute if you were a college kid but not as an older lady. Its a major turnoff. If you are here to learn then learn that. You need to accept your place in the sexual market value. You remind me of my girl's boss. Shes the principal and gives the younger teachers **** while flirting with the men, most of them are married.

 

[Poon King]

I'm not following the context shift onto 'typical women' and 'normal'. I said being introspective was a very normal thing for me. Self assessing is also a very normal thing for me. Attempting to understand what drives my behavior and choices is a very normal thing for me. These are just things that make up me.

I'm not/have never attempted to belittle anything that has been said around here. In fact, I have said the opposite all over thee boards, and to you in PM.
As penkitten remarked (paraphrasing), she came here to understand what men were experiencing and to be able to better deliver respect. My initial post about recognizing my behavior is about me trying to understand really what my motivations were in that moment. It wasnt asking for you, or anyone, to play arm chair shrink and take my inventory. I was being honest in response to a question that was asked.

Trust is earned, agreed. Sometimes we can come to understand a person just by watching.

Listen close..

This is a MEN's forum where men will give their unfiltered opinions. The media does enough sugar coating and that's why most people are clueless about what's really going on in many situations. Once you post something on SoSuave it is open to criticism, judgement, challenges and questioning. If you don't have a thick enough skin to handle that then don't post.

I know as a woman you expect to be "accommodated" and for us men to change in a way that makes you "comfortable". However you are in OUR territory now and you have to play by OUR rules. No kid gloves. No sugar coating. No special treatment because you have a vagina.

I will do the "arm chair shrink" analysis of you if I feel like it. It is not your decision how I respond to what you post.

Sound good?

 

[bigneil]

Despite this post, the theme I've been hearing all week is "Women don't play games", "Women are 100% predictable", "Women who are interested will never, ever cancel a date", "Women do not play hard to get", "Women do not send mixed signals", "Women do not practice using absence to make heart grow fonder".

When a woman starts to fall for a man, she will use ALL of these tactics and more.

Did anyone ever think she might be doing us a favor if she raises our interest using these techniques?

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Despite this post, the theme I've been hearing all week is "Women don't play games", "Women are 100% predictable", "Women who are interested will never, ever cancel a date", "Women do not play hard to get", "Women do not send mixed signals", "Women do not practice using absence to make heart grow fonder".

When a woman starts to fall for a man, she will use ALL of these tactics and more.

Did anyone ever think she might be doing us a favor if she raises our interest using these techniques?

Enough games and "techniques" will bleed off interest. It waste your time.