Why is having a gf so looked down on this site

[CuddleJunkie]

@Tenacity Being on SoSuave has nothing to be with having or not having a strong familar network. I have one, but their advice wasn't suited for me, it was suited for beta, and I'm not one. I agree with you on betas being happier with their conditioning, but what about us? Am I supposed to discuss with my mom, father, aunts and uncles about how to spin plates? Look at the last thread I made...should I ask grandma about how to difusse LMR with a taken girl?
The Manosphere is much more than a support group for burned out men. Yes, it is that too, and it is a valuable aspect of it, it has certainly helped me tons, but it is much more than that.

 

[Tenacity]

A deeper consideration for the biological imperative is if men are biologically wired to be polygamous and impregnate as many women as possible and women are biologically wired to be monogamous vying for the child's father to stick around to help care for the child, then how do we reconcile the population differences between men and women? In other words, if each man were, for example, biologically wired to impregnate let's say four or more women, and each woman vying for the single father of her child, then we would need a population of four women for each man--and we don't.

Right.

The answer: the 80/20 rule. The top 20% percent of men will bang 80% of the women, which means most men although biologically wired for polygamy, will remain involuntarily celibate. Does anybody care to venture the reason "Nature" gives such a tortuous biological imperative knowing most men will not be able to act on it?

The Pareto principle doesn't apply to dating and relationships, I'm sorry, that applies more to business related matters. 20% of companies, 20% of sales people, etc., will get 80% of the revenue/production. 20% of bloggers will make 80% of the income that bloggers make, while 80% of bloggers will produce hardly nothing from blogging.

There is a top 20% of guys based on SMV, but those guys are NOT banging 80% of women because time-wise, it would be literally IMPOSSIBLE for them to do so and also the vast majority of those 80% of women do not fit the criteria of those 20% guys.

This is why the constant promotion that every guy be the "alpha male/20% guy" is complete bullshyt because you can't fvck everybody. And women KNOW that the chances of them getting a 20% guy is going to be slim. That's why the Average Joe, the AFC, the Beta, and the Blue Pill Fag.got gets JUST AS MANY WOMEN as the Alpha Male does.....especially when those women get out of high school, over the age of 28, and are looking for some sort of stability.

 

[Tenacity]

@Tenacity Being on SoSuave has nothing to be with having or not having a strong familar network. I have one, but their advice wasn't suited for me, it was suited for beta, and I'm not one. I agree with you on betas being happier with their conditioning, but what about us? Am I supposed to discuss with my mom, father, aunts and uncles about how to spin plates? Look at the last thread I made...should I ask grandma about how to difusse LMR with a taken girl?
The Manosphere is much more than a support group for burned out men. Yes, it is that too, and it is a valuable aspect of it, it has certainly helped me tons, but it is much more than that.

And that's good man, but I don't believe you represent the vast majority of the Manosphere. The vast majority of MGTOW men come from broken families without a strong family network. It was even argued that BLACK MEN were the original MGTOWs, and we all know the fvcked up family situation of us black men.

Let's just call it what it is, the Manosphere is mainly a new religious cult. We create our own god (the Don Juan/Alpha Male/Player), we create techniques/strategies for everybody in the Manosphere to be created in that god's "image" by following certain principles (The DJ Bible), we look down on those who break those rules, and we call those outside of the movement "the devil" (or the beta fag.got). It's a new religious cult. Period.

 

[CuddleJunkie]

And that's good man, but I don't believe you represent the vast majority of the Manosphere. The vast majority of MGTOW men come from broken families without a strong family network. It was even argued that BLACK MEN were the original MGTOWs, and we all know the fvcked up family situation of us black men.

Let's just call it what it is, the Manosphere is mainly a new religious cult. We create our own god (the Don Juan/Alpha Male/Player), we create techniques/strategies for everybody in the Manosphere to be created in that god's "image" by following certain principles, we look down on those who break those rules, and we call those outside of the movement "the devil" (or the beta fag.got). It's a new religious cult. Period.

Yeah, I agree with much of what you say. This is the reason why so many guys get into the alt-right as a way to creating strong families again. They long for what they have not experienced, for what they lack. As much as I'm not part of it anymore, I sympathize with them and hope the best for their cause.

 

[Tenacity]

Yeah, I agree with much of what you say. This is the reason why so many guys get into the alt-right as a way to creating strong families again. They long for what they have not experienced, for what they lack. As much as I'm not part of it anymore, I sympathize with them and hope the best for their cause.

100% correct. It's one of the reasons I've become Center Right, voting a good amount of time for Republicans. A big part of that is to promote an aspect of traditionalism.

If my Father were in my life and if I had a real, strong, family network, there's no way in hell I would be on here talking to you right now. You know where I'd be? Still heavily involved in church ministry and married to a chick that more than likely I would be playing what Poon King refers to as "the blue pill fag.got" role in the relationship. But you know what? I would be happy as hell, just like I used to be happy as hell back in the day when I was in church ministry within a somewhat "blue pill fag.got" role.

Right now, I'm angry with massive anger, bitterness, and abandonment issues. And I have to sit here on Sosuave discussing with other guys who CLAIM they don't "give a fvck" about women.....but yet......they have the time to keep discussing and talking shyt about women all fvcking day on Sosuave.

The reality is they are just as angry, bitter, and have feelings of abandonment like I do, but their anonymous fvcking profiles allows them to PRETEND they are living some "wonderful life" spinning plates when we all know the truth! You are just as fvcking angry as I am!

 

[mrgoodstuff]

100% correct. It's one of the reasons I've become Center Right, voting a good amount of time for Republicans. A big part of that is to promote an aspect of traditionalism.

If my Father were in my life and if I had a real, strong, family network, there's no way in hell I would be on here talking to you right now. You know where I'd be? Still heavily involved in church ministry and married to a chick that more than likely I would be playing what Poon King refers to as "the blue pill fag.got" role in the relationship. But you know what? I would be happy as hell, just like I used to be happy as hell back in the day when I was in church ministry within a somewhat "blue pill fag.got" role.

Right now, I'm angry with massive anger, bitterness, and abandonment issues. And I have to sit here on Sosuave discussing with other guys who CLAIM they don't "give a fvck" about women.....but yet......they have the time to keep discussing and talking shyt about women all fvcking day on Sosuave.

The reality is they are just as angry, bitter, and have feelings of abandonment like I do, but their anonymous fvcking profiles allows them to PRETEND they are living some "wonderful life" spinning plates when we all know the truth! You are just as fvcking angry as I am!

Your right. That's entirely too much time focused on women. We should be focused on what we want and need in life.

 

[Poon King]

It's not you, dude. People here want to stick you into a stereotypical little box of what they think a man is, and if you don't fit into it, then they will call you beta, AFC, a woman, a white knight, faggot, etc.

I look at what you're doing, and I'd say you are living a full life, especially for your age. Can you imagine going through your entire life and never having a girlfriend? That would be missing out on life experience. And yet that's what guys here want you to do. I would think most men spin plates at some points in their life and are in relationships at other times. To miss out on either would be not living your life to the fullest, IMO.

Personally, I like LTRs in the same way that I prefer to have a few good friends instead of a large number of casual acquaintences.

You can have a girlfriend and spin plates at the same time.

Men like you limit themselves with too many "rules". Often these rules don't benefit you. That's the main point some of us are making.. even if we are using harsh language to do so.

As I said earlier.. its not the actions we are judging.. its the reason for them. Most men get girlfriends because of fear, insecurity, desperation, laziness, co-dependence or need for societal/family approval. These are all very weak and beta reasons to do something.

 

[Tenacity]

No, you would have rejected that life, failed with the women in the church to the extent you had any interaction at all with them, seen the hypocrisy and come here to learn why lol. I know bc that's me. Ill say this: all of the stable happy(for now) marriages I observe are born in the church, but not all marriages born in the church are happy and stable

Nope......back in the day when I was heavily involved in church ministry (1999 - 2004) I was age 16 - 21. I was not failing with women. I was actually dating and got sexually involved with a couple of women from my church. I was very religious so I didn't participate in the stuff as often.

What I noticed about me back then, is that even though my looks were not as good as they are today, I was dressing WAY better (due to the church environment) and my personality was being developed at the time. I was breaking out of my shell, socializing, and I started to really/truly develop my passion in life.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Nope......back in the day when I was heavily involved in church ministry (1999 - 2004) I was age 16 - 21. I was not failing with women. I was actually dating and got sexually involved with a couple of women from my church. I was very religious so I didn't participate in the stuff as often.

What I noticed about me back then, is that even though my looks were not as good as they are today, I was dressing WAY better (due to the church environment) and my personality was being developed at the time. I was breaking out of my shell, socializing, and I started to really/truly develop my passion in life.

You didn't have the abs then though. Hey, so was your relationship ordeals with the "church girls" better worse or indifferent than the "world girls"?

 

[Poon King]

And that's the main point I'm making. We keep promoting that everybody be the Manosphere cartoon definition of "alpha", but most guys ARE and WILL BE "beta", you know why? Being red pill/alpha is not something many guys have an option to be.

I've said before, it's very easy to be red pill when your life already has aspects of abandonment.

When you come from a strong family background with a strong family tie, you most likely are going to be blue pill like your Father was.You aren't going to buck that system to be some pseudo "alpha male" and piss off the people who set up your Trust Fund as well as who have a stash of cash awaiting for you once they die.

In that aspect I would RATHER be blue pill.....at least those blue pill fag.gots aren't on Sosuave detailing their "anger" problems, or discussing with anonymous people over the internet how women "ain't shyt" all day. Those blue pill fag.gots don't know about a Manosphere because they never HAD TO SEEK IT OUT. They have a strong family network that cares about them.

Say whatever you want, but the truth is that most of us here do not have a strong family network that gives two shyts about us. It's why we had to reach out to anonymous people on the internet for help with our problems or "male role models" in the first place. Based on that, it's very easy for us to be RED PILL and call the world fag.gots....it's no different than joining a religious CULT.

Most men are betas and will die betas. Its true.

But this forum is mostly about how to be successful with women (and in general). The easiest way to be successful is to be as alpha as possible. Betas are the sacrificial lambs of the world. The majority of the media promotes being beta and blue pill.

I would ask you why you are even here if all you want to hear is Disney stories about life. You can find loads of the drivel just about anywhere else. Why should I or other red pill posters promote being weak, co-dependent and submissive? Serious question. Why should I promote that? For the sake of inclusiveness? Like every action movie needs someone in a wheelchair so that "everyone" feels included and has someone to relate to? That kind of sh!t?

The truth is: If you cannot handle some of the things I say or other posters say.. a woman will destroy you.

 

[zekko]

Men like you limit themselves with too many "rules".

I'm not limiting myself at all, I'm doing what I want to do. I spun plates for years. It just so happens that at this point in my life I have a girlfriend. Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up and spin plates again. I'm doing what I want to do. Tenacity is right, the seduction community is like a religion, which tries to indoctrinate you with its own set of beliefs.

So answer me this, what benefits does a man derive from a LTR that he wouldn't from keeping a high-interest plate long term?

I'm not espousing one over the other. But for the sake of argument, let's just say the benefits are the same, or at least similar. Although I think it's unlikely that any sane woman could invest herself as fully - mentally, physically, financially, emotionally, sexually - in a man that only kept her as a mere plate.

Maybe I want to reward her good behavior by granting her girlfriend status?
I happen to know that my girlfriend would be greatly hurt if I slept with another women. I know guys here will say "Bisches won't care about your feelings when they leave you", and that's true. But for the time being at least, I have no desire to hurt her.
Also, the fact that my desire for female companionship is met allows me to turn my attention to other, more important things. This is not the same as laziness, this is redirecting that time, energy, and focus onto other things.

Here's a benefit: Since we both share a lot of meals together and we both like to eat clean, she makes it easier by bringing more appropriate foods into the house, and acting as a food buddy.

 

[Poon King]

I'm not limiting myself at all, I'm doing what I want to do. I spun plates for years. It just so happens that at this point in my life I have a girlfriend. Maybe tomorrow I'll wake up and spin plates again. I'm doing what I want to do. Tenacity is right, the seduction community is like a religion, which tries to indoctrinate you with its own set of beliefs.

Compared to what?

Doesn't every person, institution, or organization try to indoctrinate you with their own set of values and beliefs? I see his point, but I don't see why it matters. Its just a mild shaming tactic to make the seduction/red pill community seem less legitimate. This frees him to go forward with beta behavior and feel "good/right" about it.

Moot point.

I'm not espousing one over the other. But for the sake of argument, let's just say the benefits are the same, or at least similar. Although I think it's unlikely that any sane woman could invest herself as fully - mentally, physically, financially, emotionally, sexually - in a man that only kept her as a mere plate.

Maybe I want to reward her good behavior by granting her girlfriend status?
I happen to know that my girlfriend would be greatly hurt if I slept with another women. I know guys here will say "Bisches won't care about your feelings when they leave you", and that's true. But for the time being at least, I have no desire to hurt her.
Also, the fact that my desire for female companionship is met allows me to turn my attention to other, more important things. This is not the same as laziness, this is redirecting that time, energy, and focus onto other things.

Here's a benefit: Since we both share a lot of meals together and we both like to eat clean, she makes it easier by bringing more appropriate foods into the house, and acting as a food buddy.

Nothing wrong with that. You are living on your own terms.

 

[guru1000]

The Pareto principle doesn't apply to dating and relationships, I'm sorry,

The egg is encumbered for 9 months upon fertilization, and the impregnator whose sperm levels during those nine months continue to run amok at 25 million per day and be delivered to many demonstrates clearly that the principle (maybe not 80/20 which is used as an example but majority/minority) categorically applies toward biological motivations. Though, we don’t see this motivation exacted in human condition due to conscious choice in spite of instinct, with those choices being shaped by social construct.

which is why they learn to control it.

Almost there. Why purposefully create a motivation that needs to be controlled?

I do not conflate the term natural with the term biology especially in the context of beings with agency.

You're not getting off that easy Pal.

Natural means “not made or caused by humankind.” And you don’t want to conflate “biology,” which was not made by humankind, with “natural”? But you want to connect “agency” which is caused by humankind with “natural,” which is not caused by humankind? LOL.

 

[guru1000]

Don't look at this as a matter of who is wrong and who is right, and letting others decide the "winner." Look at this as something that WE all (including the readers) can extract from this.

Again you bring "human nature" into a contention that "polygamy is biologically natural." If you confound the definition of "natural" in the clear context in which I used it, that is your comprehension problem, not mine. My argument was clear:

It is biologically natural for men to be polygamous.

Simple, isn't it? I'm sure we all agree on this contention, correct? If so, we can move onto to why it feels "unnatural" or is biological naturalness a biological contrivance which is truly unnatural?

 

[guru1000]

I never once argued against the idea the polygamy is biologically natural. Not one time. You're making a semantic argument against a point I did not contend...because itd not the point I am concerned with making.

Great!

Now explain the factual basis that supports in how being biologically natural can be humanly unnatural?

 

[Tenacity]

Most men are betas and will die betas. Its true.

But this forum is mostly about how to be successful with women (and in general). The easiest way to be successful is to be as alpha as possible. Betas are the sacrificial lambs of the world. The majority of the media promotes being beta and blue pill.

But who is defining "successful"? Are you defining it or are you allowing an individual man to define it? And I thought this forum was about male self-improvement in general, not just in relation to how to pick up women, which would make it a PUA site?

I've been the loudest voice on this forum about how fvcked up the marketplace is.

I'm not disagreeing with the commentary you are providing, what I'm disagreeing with is the cult-like procedures around here calling people FAG.GOTS just because they don't subscribe to the cult-like procedures 100%. It's gotten so bad to where if you say you are in a committed relationship, you are being called lazy, a bytch, and a fag.got now.

We have to remember the purpose of this site is male SELF-improvement, that means that the male HIMSELF determines his individual goals and uses the mass amount of information on this website to tailor to his own individual path.....to help him achieve said goal.

- Some guy's goal is to be married with kids.
- Some guy's goal is to be in a LTR
- Some guy's goal is to just spin plates
- Some guy's goal is to get laid more often

Doesn't every person, institution, or organization try to indoctrinate you with their own set of values and beliefs? I see his point, but I don't see why it matters. Its just a mild shaming tactic to make the seduction/red pill community seem less legitimate. This frees him to go forward with beta behavior and feel "good/right" about it.

No. I will take it back to the Fitness Community. If I would have listened to the Fitness CULTS I were around, I would have never seen my 6 pack. They were pushing me their various religions and none of them fit with my INDIVIDUAL BODY.

- Some were pushing their eat every 3 hours religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do cardio religious cult
- Some were pushing their never eat carbs religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do a cheat meal again for life religious cult
- Some were pushing their take fat burners religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do ab workouts religious cult
- Some were pushing their never workout more than 30 minutes religious cult

When I instead STOPPED trying to fit into religious cults, and took all of the MASSIVE information presented in the Fitness Community to create my own tailored plan for MY INDIVIDUAL BODY...that's when I seen success.

And I'm saying the same thing about the Manosphere. Guys need to not fall into any religious cult on here, they need to take the mass amount of information, LOG THE FVCK OFF, and create their own individualized plan for their life.

 

[Tenacity]

Putting a condom on my d1ck doesn't change my biological nature anymore than putting a trilby hat on my head makes me Frank Sinatra.

You aren't making any sense.

Okay let me try this another way:

- A domesticated animal (including those in cages at the zoo) isn't "natural"
- A chick fvcking another chick isn't "natural"
- A guy fvcking another guy isn't "natural"
- A condom or any other form of birth control isn't "natural"
- A chick with multiple baby daddies isn't "natural"
- A chick being stronger than a guy isn't "natural"
- A chick putting on a strap to fvck a guy in the a.ss isn't "natural"

What am I saying? Biologically we are wired ONE WAY, but things such as culture, tools, strategies, resources, religion, schooling, and imprisonment can PROGRAM us to operate in another way and ENJOY the new form of operation at the same time.

So to continue using phrases like "biologically we are wired like X, Y, and Z" ignoring things like CULTURE and other forms of programming that make people operate completely different than their biological make-up......is either you being irrational or disingenuous.

 

[guru1000]

I already told you: based on observation of human cultures and histories throughout time. Humans are paradoxical and suffer from multiple competing impulses urges and pressures

Human behavior was originally directed by biological motivation, and then tempered by social/biblical constructs. Why would that make biological motivation unnatural in the context of human nature, when social/biblical constructs were manmade, mutable, directed by the political/financial agendas of the controlling parties?

In other words, your human nature is simply a product of indoctrination to tell you what is the truth, not based on truth. Accordingly, how does this make a natural process such as biological motivations unnatural in the context of human nature?

EDIT: And now that you change your position, I'll rephrase the question: Given the above, how does that make monogamy natural?

 

[BeTheChange]

Pair, you aren't going to win this one champ. It's very obvious you're trying to twist biological principles to fit your world view.

However spreading ones seed in perpetuity isn't necessarily "natural" either. Both genders tend towards short to medium term pair bonding with the man sticking around to ensure that his offspring are taken care of and his genes preserved.

Using history to support your theory is also grasping at straws if you're looking at how the average man behaved. If you want to base what is "natural" on historic behaviour then observing the most powerful men would be a better study because this is more likely to represent how men would behave if they were unencumbered by societal expectations, limited finances, etc. And on that basis guru, Poon King et al. are always going to win the debate.

Powerful men have always had their main chicks, a good women to raise their kids, while they fvck other women on the side. IMO this is probably the most long term natural state that an adult male should hope to achieve if he is being true to his nature because it satisfies his biological urges to pass on his genes, pair bond, and fvck other women. Anything else is an acceptance of the supremacy of her sexual strategy at the expense of your own.

 

[guru1000]

But who is defining "successful"? Are you defining it or are you allowing an individual man to define it? And I thought this forum was about male self-improvement in general, not just in relation to how to pick up women, which would make it a PUA site?

I've been the loudest voice on this forum about how fvcked up the marketplace is.

I'm not disagreeing with the commentary you are providing, what I'm disagreeing with is the cult-like procedures around here calling people FAG.GOTS just because they don't subscribe to the cult-like procedures 100%. It's gotten so bad to where if you say you are in a committed relationship, you are being called lazy, a bytch, and a fag.got now.

We have to remember the purpose of this site is male SELF-improvement, that means that the male HIMSELF determines his individual goals and uses the mass amount of information on this website to tailor to his own individual path.....to help him achieve said goal.

- Some guy's goal is to be married with kids.
- Some guy's goal is to be in a LTR
- Some guy's goal is to just spin plates
- Some guy's goal is to get laid more often




No. I will take it back to the Fitness Community. If I would have listened to the Fitness CULTS I were around, I would have never seen my 6 pack. They were pushing me their various religions and none of them fit with my INDIVIDUAL BODY.

- Some were pushing their eat every 3 hours religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do cardio religious cult
- Some were pushing their never eat carbs religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do a cheat meal again for life religious cult
- Some were pushing their take fat burners religious cult
- Some were pushing their never do ab workouts religious cult
- Some were pushing their never workout more than 30 minutes religious cult

When I instead STOPPED trying to fit into religious cults, and took all of the MASSIVE information presented in the Fitness Community to create my own tailored plan for MY INDIVIDUAL BODY...that's when I seen success.

And I'm saying the same thing about the Manosphere. Guys need to not fall into any religious cult on here, they need to take the mass amount of information, LOG THE FVCK OFF, and create their own individualized plan for their life.

Tenacity, these kind of exchanges are not based on directing a DJ's mission, but rather for the DJ to understand where the motivations for his mission originate, whereas the DJ is conscious of the inner encumbrances and impetuses that drive his values, and thus pursuits.

For example, an LTR might work for Zekko as he doesn't appear to be masking any, or relying on one girl to fix his, deficiencies.

You, on the other hand, are dealing with abandonment issues and are seeking an LTR to fill your holes of need and love. Not a prudent position to enter into an LTR.