Why is having a gf so looked down on this site

[ChristopherColumbus]

Yes, best to keep it simple. And then it's not a question of knowledge/ certainty but of belief - everything boils down to belief at the end of the day.... coherent belief.

Here's the simplest way of looking at it:

Whenever I engage in rationality/ philosophic deliberation, I assume that something can be true or false. I assume a 'faculty' within myself which can choose between the two.

Therefore rationality presupposes free will.

And yet the rational will is not chaotic. There seems to be an intelligible order to which it orientates itself. Self-determination consists in aligning ourselves with this.

As far as delving into it deeper goes, I'd recommend a reading of Kant to anyone interested. Here we have a fellow with a foot in both worlds.

 

[guru1000]

It's so funny when people start discussing using the word "natural" about human behavior.

It's quite simple. Natural means "not made or caused by humankind." All unconscious processes are natural.

So which one is normal? Why does just one of them have to be normal?

Normal is disparate from natural. What we define as normal is what society defines as normal. Thus, being normal is the conformity to current social constructs.

what makes us different to the animal kingdom.

What makes us different is conscious choice in spite of instinct.

Therefore rationality presupposes free will.

On a deeper level, there is no entirely free will. Our free will is shaped by our social conditioning, genetical makeup and predispositions, and the current environment ("the Three Catalysts"). Our decisions are based on what creates the most pleasure and least pain within the sphere of the Three Catalysts. Our free will is limited to the degree we decide to go against the Three Catalysts, which can never be 100%.

 

[Serenity]

@guru1000 Wow, I made a mistake there. I meant to say "natural" not "normal". In common speech I disagree that normal is disparate from natural, at least in the context of this discussion. Practically many people use the word "natural" in place of "normal". Regarding my point it really makes no difference.

Many people incorrectly (ab)use the word "natural", which was another thing I pointed out.

Social constructs must be created by some and supported by others. Anyone can create social constructs, not many gain popularity though. I would say it's natural for people to make these constructs, the constructs themselves only become normal when enough people agree and internalize them. In that way I can see your point that natural and normal is different, because social constructs are in themselves not natural by definition. The creation of them are natural human behavior though.

So to correct myself: Which one is natural? Why does just one of them have to be natural?

(They're rethorical questions, I don't need an answer)

 

[Tenacity]

It's quite simple. Natural means "not made or caused by humankind." All unconscious processes are natural.

But I'm still wondering why does the Manosphere even still reference traditional, biological, "natural" processes when most of our "world" today is manufacturered, socially programmed, and socially conditioned?

I must reference this post I made in this very thread earlier:

Post #115

Social conditioning, programming, culture, school indoctrination, media programming, what your parents think, what your friends think, etc., etc. go much further today to control human behavior than some "biological imperative".

- Case in point. If that were the case (nature always overrides social conditioning) we would be living in ANARCHY. You do realize that it's unnatural for any human being to be regulated and operate under man-made laws.....don't you? We wouldn't function as a country if it were true.

- Another case in point, damn near 70% of females in America are bisexual. How in the hell does a female licking another female, line up with ANYTHING from a biological imperative in relation to the female dynamic? It doesn't. Because, social programming, culture, etc., has a much higher influence.

- Another case in point. What the hell we like to EAT and don't like to EAT, also is being manipulated. Why do you think they use processed shyt in various foods? The processed shyt manipulates our taste patterns, manipulates our taste buds, etc., to PROGRAM us to be attracted to eating certain types of foods over other types.

- Another case in point. Why do you think marketing departments use various forms of methods, music, actors, and other forms of manipulation? Through trial and error, they have discovered what selling methods work to PROGRAM people into buying shyt they don't need, and what methods don't work. If nature overrides this condition, people would NOT buy shyt they don't need. People would NOT be in debt like they are currently.

 

[guru1000]

But I'm still wondering why does the Manosphere even still reference traditional, biological, "natural" processes when most of our "world" today is manufacturered, socially programmed, and socially conditioned?

You don’t need to deal with the unconscious, the natural, the biological. No one is forcing you to read these discussions, but, notwithstanding, you choose to because ...

Most of us come here to this site because we have deeper questions. For example, you came looking for answers to: 1) Why can’t you find a “quality” girl; 2) How do you rid yourself of these feelings of inadequacy; 3) Why are thugs getting the true affections of your women?

The answers to your questions deal with unconscious processes; that is, you harbor much insecurity and inadequacy which project into your sub- and overt-communications; ultimately, destroying your “game." You are not even aware of it, until you have reached the point of wishing to go postal. But where is this wish grounded: In your inability to fulfill your biological imperative (passing your seed). So you have the push, then the pull, running around in circles chasing your own tail. Some men seek to understand why.

 

[Tenacity]

You don’t need to deal with the unconscious, the natural, the biological. No one is forcing you to read these discussions, but, notwithstanding, you choose to because ...

Most of us come here to this site because we have deeper questions. For example, you came looking for answers to: 1) Why can’t you find a “quality” girl; 2) How do you rid yourself of these feelings of inadequacy; 3) Why are thugs getting the true affections of your women?

The answers to your questions deal with unconscious processes; that is, you harbor much insecurity and inadequacy which project into your sub- and overt-communications; ultimately, destroying your “game." You are not even aware of it, until you have reached the point of wishing to go postal. But where is this wish grounded: In your inability to fulfill your biological imperative (passing your seed). So you have the push, then the pull, running around in circles chasing your own tail. Some men seek to understand why.

Correct, but in seeking to understand the WHY.....why do we go back to the Animal Kingdom for answers? Why are we using biological-based imperatives when the vast majority of human interaction is socially conditioned? That's where my confusion comes in.

I've obviously come to my own answers and used this site as a form of a "Live Journal" to in a way, get all of my thoughts out there and speak to myself. Yes, I've talked about going postal but you know I'm not going to actually do that lol.

But my answers come back to a shift in the market based on NEW forms of social conditioning, programming, and cultural changes. I believe these new market shifts are what causes 98% of ALL of our problems with women.....from them giving out numbers and not moving forward, the flakey stuff, the Family Court shyt, how a woman will get fat and not lose weight, the attitude shyt, the WEAVE wearing shyt, etc., etc.

I don't think biological/Animal Kingdom "natural" processes have anything to do with these situations. Matter of fact, I would argue that social conditioning and programming has replaced natural processes and that humanity (at least here in the US) has gotten AWAY from the "natural".

Black women fvcking/making kids with thugs for example, is a social conditioning/cultural based situation. It has nothing to do with natural processes. BELIEVE ME (as Trump would say).

 

[guru1000]

They really need a face-palm emoticon here.

 

[Tenacity]

They really need a face-palm emoticon here.

Lol I guess. But my theory is that most of today's human behavior goes against traditional/biological natural processes because social conditioning has taken over. For example, 70% of women (at least) are bisexual, when you explain how that connects anyway to biological/natural processes, then I'll shut up.

 

[guru1000]

Gotcha. So when more men come out of the closet, you'll start sucking dvck.

 

[Tenacity]

Gotcha. So when more men come out of the closet, you'll start sucking dvck.

I believe the gay/lesbian/bisexual community is going to continue to grow as we go forward, but I'm not joining it lol.

My point is that I believe most of our actions today (especially in the dating world) is a result of social conditioning rather than natural/biological imperatives.

Like I said (which you still haven't addressed).....if it were still based on natural/biological imperatives, very few women would be bisexual and lesbian today JUST LIKE it used to be prior to the 1970's Feminist Movement. Very few women would be playing the role of the breadwinner/provider. Over here in Black America, the black woman is the breadwinner/provider for the most part. If the black man is there, he's in some sort of supportive role, the black woman is running the show in I would say the majority of our relationships (over 51%).

That stuff is not natural and it's not based on Animal Kingdom/biological processes. These actions are a direct result of a change in social culture with a shift in social programming, inspired heavily by the Feminist Movement.

 

[guru1000]

So you make the argument that social constructs have a greater influence on your social behavior than your innate imperatives. Of course; this makes you human, guided by consciousness in spite of instinct.

But, when you threaten to go postal every few months, you are experiencing cognitive dissonance between the present social construct and your biological imperative which you cannot exact given the current construct. So don't ignore the unconscious processes that could jeopardize your life.

 

[Tenacity]

But, when you threaten to go postal every few months, you are experiencing cognitive dissonance between the present social construct and your biological imperative which you cannot exact given the current construct. So don't ignore the unconscious processes that could jeopardize your life.

Okay I agree with this. I could have had several kids by now and been married as well. It's the quality of said relationships (based on current changes in social conditioning/culture) is what stopped me from doing it.....until I can find a woman that would allow me to bring forth such a thing with conditions in my favor. If that's even possible....I'm coming to terms that I might have to settle.

It's the opposite.

Modern social conditions are allowing women to behave more in keeping with their nature, not less. That's the very point..

Then explain how a woman licking another woman's pvssy.....aligns with a woman's nature?

 

[zekko]

I see what both sides are talking about here, but I can kind of see Tenacity's point. A lot of the current problems in the dating world have been caused by feminism, and feminism did not come from caveman days. It's a fairly recent development.

 

[Serenity]

@Tenacity You're basically arguing that humans do not act according to human nature. The phenomenons you witness today have roots several thousand years back in history. It's most definitely human nature.

A woman licking another womans pvssy is not something that started happen in the last few decades. What has happened in recent times though is people's openness about it, nobodies head is chopped off or anything for being open about it.

You can find homosexuality very far back in history and even animals engage in it.