The Importance of Spinning Plates

[Poon King]

Mate, I'm being straight with you.

I'd never get anywhere with that attitude - unless I still played around in my social circle or another place where game over time counts.

You approach a woman, and you are giving value. Then you text/correspond, and you are giving her value. Then, you date and you are giving her value.

I know that, as a man, I have to give value before I receive any. I don't believe that is 'right', but it simply is.

You make it sound like a job. Its not "giving value" its HAVING value and GIVING attention.

How much attention you give depends on the woman's willingness to follow your lead and your terms. Its not complicated.

When you HAVE value then women want your attention. The price for your attention is they follow your lead. If at some point they no longer want to pay the price they lose the attention. Most men are so used to kissing ass and pandering to women that they can't even grasp that my advice is actually the most practical advice around.

The level that modern men place women on a pedestal is so extreme in 2016 that even the idea of behaving in a dominant fashion with women sounds completely ridiculous. If you spend enough of your life in chains you eventually learn to like it I guess.

 

[Tenacity]

@Poon King

I completely understand everything you are saying, I even echo the same commentary as you know. But here's my question man, understanding the Red Pill, understanding the true nature of women, understanding MGTOW......and understanding every thing else....

At the end of the day, what are we doing this women shyt for? Is it just pvssy? I mean is there a NEXT STEP to this shyt?

Man I've been dating/fvcking like crazy since 2010. It was cool as hell between 2010 - 2014 because it was so new, but in 2015 the shyt started getting boring. Once I entered 2016, I no longer even had the passion for the shyt. I'm still doing it today, but I have no passion for it. It's not fun anymore.

I've fvcked like crazy, tried every sexual position there is to try....I can't keep doing this spinning plates shyt for the rest of my life. There HAS to be something deeper in relation to this? There has to be. My question is, what is it and how the hell do we get to it?

I agree that spinning plates is an optimum dating strategy, I used it myself when I was younger. But I disagree with the notion of dismissing all men who enter LTRs as lazy and afraid. In fact, spinning plates is probably the best way to find an LTR.

I agree with this. Spinning plates is a great strategy to eliminate desperation, boost confidence, and gain experience with women. But are we really supposed to just do this shyt for the rest of our lives? Am I supposed to be some 50 year old still on POF, OKC, Tinder, etc., approaching chicks to spin plates? Am I supposed to be some 50 year old dude still at the bar, pub, or out anywhere else doing "cold approaches" on women?

Think about it guys......this spinning plates stuff is good when you're 18 - 38. But man once you start hitting 40, I don't know if this shyt is cute anymore. I'm not saying that marriage is the answer, but I know there has to be a NEXT STEP to this shyt. Maybe just a quality LTR of some sort?

 

[Poon King]

The only time it wasn't, was when I have been on MGTOW breaks - and then the women have chosen me.

How the fvck does a man approach women, and game them without it being either a value give, or a MGTOW break?

It is either, or... right?

Unless you limit yourself to one night stands, I don't see the exception. Guys have to play the game and give genuine value before receiving any.

Such is the way of biology.
.

How the fvck does a man approach women, and game them without it being either a value give, or a MGTOW break?

ANSWER: I don't understand how flirting and talking to a woman you're attracted to is a "value give". You are only giving attention. The value part comes from her perception of who you are and what you can do for her.

What counts as "value" differs from woman to woman. Any man spinning plates knows this.. as he has met hundreds of individual women in his life with different personalities, goals and values.

I know that for me personally.. I don't worry about "losing women" because I've reached a point where its extremely easy to meet and attract new ones. Knowing that I can easily meet and attract new women takes away my incentive to live on women's terms by women's rules. Why should I? I can get what I want without it.

Furthermore.. I don't make women and their attention my "everything". I see women as a source of pleasure. And life has many sources of pleasure that have nothing to do with women. Women just happen to be one of them. I want women but I don't NEED them. And I will never need them. That gives me peace to live as I please. And if a time comes when I can no longer easily meet, attract and f*ck new women.. it doesn't matter. Because.. like I said.. I want women but I don't NEED them. They are just one of MANY sources of pleasure in life.

• Alphas live life for their goals
• Betas live life for women

 

[EyeBRollin]

What I've found... the moment you find yourself slipping into "feelings" with a woman, it's like the universe can sense it and they make you pay.

Spin plates. When you care more than she does, you lose.

 

[zekko]

The way that I read it, he is in a constant frame-war. 'Happy' is based on the outcome of that.

I haven't really kept up with his website, aside from the occasional article. I based my comments on the messages he used to post here when he was a more active member (before he started The Rational Male). Perhaps he sees things differently now.

Think about it guys......this spinning plates stuff is good when you're 18 - 38. But man once you start hitting 40, I don't know if this shyt is cute anymore. I'm not saying that marriage is the answer, but I know there has to be a NEXT STEP to this shyt. Maybe just a quality LTR of some sort?

Bear in mind that I am older than the hills, but here are my thoughts. If a guy wants to spin plates his whole life (and I know guys who do), then there's nothing wrong with that. But looks at this quote from deesade:

"Get to a point where women are easily replaceable, by good game and an abundance mindset."

At this point in my life, I definitely think women are easily replaceable. If you lose one, you can always find another. None of them are perfect, but you can mold them into what you want them to be to some extent, as long as you have something decent to start with. As bad as women have declined quality-wise, I am still convinced they are easily replaceable, and interchangeable to some extent. But again, you have to have something to work with, you still can't make a ho a housewife, so to speak.

My point is at this stage of my life, I don't feel the need to spin plates, because the abundance mindset is already firmly established in my brain. I've lost women, and I've always been able to get another, so I know they are replaceable.

 

[guru1000]

PoonKing and Deesade, you keep missing each others points, but are driving at the same tenet.

You must bifurcate between "intent" and "action."

For example, I could say, "Hey baby, I love you, you are the best" but mean "Hey baby, hurry up, let's fvck , and then you need to get going."

The beta could say "Hey baby, I love you, you are the best" and mean "I will do anything to please you, just name it, and I will jump."

Same words, different intent.

PK states:

Most men are so used to kissing ass and pandering to women

Deesade states:

I take a woman out for coffee. Yet, I don't want a fvcking 'coffee' to begin with. I don't want to drink with one either. I'm doing that for a reason - with an end goal.

PK states don't pander. Deesade does not pander, as his actions are not founded on indulging the woman, but rather indulging himself under the guise of indulging the woman--a machination of sorts.

Both intentions are the same: Get what you what out of the woman with no emotional investment. One action may be straightforward, the other action Machiavellian, but the intent originates from the same cloth.

 

[Serenity]

@guru1000 I just dropped in to this conversation and read your last post. What @deesade is doing with that is the most classic way to pander.

This is the beta way, doing stuff that is completely unrelated to the end goal. In particular stuff you are doing for the sole purpose of reaching that goal, like going for a coffee when you don't really want it. It's similar to giving flowers, not because you really just want to be nice but because you think she might toss off her clothes.

The beta hides his intentions. All he achieves is wasting lots of time. Like you already pointed out one approach is straight forward and the other is machiavellian. I'll add that one approach takes more balls and the other wastes more time. The time spent is an investment, our time is limited and thus it does have value. So it's a loss if you spent a lot of time pandering when all you wanted was a quick and cheap fvck and she's not up for it.

Being straight forward has several positive sides, you're honest (if morals is your thing), it's faster and you'll find out a lot quicker if she wants to fvck making the loss of time wasted minimal. It's just more effective and it's a great way to show confidence too.

 

[Tenacity]

My point is at this stage of my life, I don't feel the need to spin plates, because the abundance mindset is already firmly established in my brain. I've lost women, and I've always been able to get another, so I know they are replaceable.

Yes, see the thing is I'm not saying women aren't replaceable....hell.....most men that come into a woman's life are replaceable as well. I'm looking at the NEXT STEP or the long term goal/strategy here. It seems to me like this should be a guy's journey:

- Age 18 to 40 or 45: You figure out the game for what it is, build up your Sexual Market Value (which includes getting your money right), and spin as many plates as possible so you can fully understand women as well as understand the type of woman you personally would like to do something serious with.

- Age 40 or 45 Until You Die: You only deal with those women that you personally prefer to do something serious with. Note this could just be one woman that you are with from 40 until you die at let's say 75. Or it could be one woman you are with from 40 to 50, another one from 50 - 55, then one final one from 55 - 80 when you die. But you aren't spinning plates at this age, you are in serious relationships until you die.

Does this make sense? I just don't think it looks cool at all to be that 50 year old creep still on POF, OKC, Tinder, or out doing "cold approaches". Not to say you can't end up single at 50 by just getting out of a relationship, but you can easily get into another one with your circle.

Are we supposed to spin plates forever? Are we supposed to just NEXT bytches forever when we don't get our way or "control the frame"? At what POINT do we just settle in? There does have to come a point when we settle in....right?

Look I have anger/red pill rage issues out of this world, but eventually those issues are going to be gone. My desire to spin plates is ALREADY GONE. I'm growing. I can feel it. I think it's only a matter of time before I settle down in a serious LTR, even though I'm only 33.

I read the following below on Reddit which explains the Red Pill process perfectly. I can feel myself getting into the Acceptance Stage:

Denial: "Women aren't like that! They're people just like everyone else! Treat them all as individuals, and you're sure to find the right one!"

Anger: "WTF! Bitches are all like this! They have no honour, no loyalty, and they don't really love anyone but themselves! ****ing ****s!"

Bargaining: "If I work real hard and learn all the pickup moves, then at least I'll get laid."

Depression: "Getting laid by shallow, obnoxious women has become dull and unrewarding. And there's no sense looking for a unicorn. Maybe I'll just be MGTOW for a while."

Acceptance: "Women aren't bad. My expectations of them, and theirs of me, were based on faulty premises. They are creatures of instinct, just like I am... but of different instincts. If I learn what those instincts are, and teach them about mine, we can develop realistic expectations of each other and get along just fine."

 

[guru1000]

I just dropped in to this conversation and read your last post. What @deesade is doing with that is the most classic way to pander.

Again, "intent" and "action." The action seems to be one of pandering; that is appealing to her likes to win approval. Look a bit closer: The intent is to fvck her brains, toss her or move her into rotation as quickly as possible.

A beta panders with intent and action; not action alone.

Let's take this further:

I meet a girl online. I don't feel like texting her to set up a date; I'm fcken busy. But I have to text her and set the date. I could of course text her and say, "Hey, come over; let's fvck." But with 99.9% certainty, such a text would not work. So am I a beta because I have to text her for a date going against my desire to not want to text her at all? Or am I a beta for not being upfront with my first text to her stating that I want to fvck?

At the date, I don't feel like going on some date to meet a chick. I just want her to come to my house and fvck. Of course, I could text her and say, "Hey, come to my place for drinks." But for a first time OLD girl, this does not work often. So I have to go on the fvcken date. So am I a beta for going on the date to fvck the girl going against my desire to not want to go on the date? Or am I a beta for texting her for a date, and not being upfront with my only desire to fvck?

The point here is there is a specific level of investment that you as a DJ will have to make to fvck women. Such an investment does not make you a beta or a "panderer" by intent.

The "intent" of the actions in question and the emotional investment one makes into a girl to extract the resource of sex is what determines where one falls in the alpha/beta continuum.

It's simple actually. Don't get confused with this: There is an end goal; that is, to fvck. Do what you have to do to get there as quickly and cost-effectively as possible--with zero emotional investment.

 

[Serenity]

@deesade it's more of a response to that little thing @guru1000 commented on.

Neither of you seem to understand my point, that's fine. There's other ways of being clear without going all in saying "wanna fvck?". You can't seriously be that unimaginative.

Doing things with the intentions/hopes of getting sex is what betas do. How can you guru1000 of all people deny that, how?!!!

It would be one thing if you actually enjoyed dates, but dragging oneself through them just for some pvssy? That's just sad and proof that you're really a slave to pvssy.

We're talking about compromising yourself just for some pvssy. That pvssy is more important than doing what you want to do. That makes you a slave. Just like drug addicts are slave to their drugs, they'll do sh!t they don't really want to do to get it. That is the point I'm making here.

 

[guru1000]

We're talking about compromising yourself just for some pvssy. That pvssy is more important than doing what you want to do. That makes you a slave. Just like drug addicts are slave to their drugs, they'll do sh!t they don't really want to do to get it. That is the point I'm making here.

I'm compromising myself by texting a girl for a date that I don't want to text, but only to fvck? LOL.

Come back with a sensical argument.

 

[Serenity]

I'm compromising myself by texting a girl for a date that I don't want to text, but only to fvck? LOL.

Come back with a sensical argument.

Again you fail to see my point. You were the one who mentioned texting, I was not talking about texting. I was talking about when you actually do something. Are you playing stupid?

Sending a text costs you a few seconds, going to get coffee takes much more time than that.

So re-read my post and keep in mind I am NOT talking about texting, I am talking about dates.

 

[guru1000]

Grewd, you are right. No more dates for me. Girls will magically appear on my bed by thinking it into fruition.

Thanks pal!

 

[BeTheChange]

Grewd man, you aren't living in the real world.

Life is about balancing your wants and needs in the most cost effective, time efficient way.

Am I a compromising beta when I get out of bed for a job I don't 100% love? No. Why? Because I appreciate the trade off is sufficiently beneficial for ME.

Similarly as an introvert I could go days, if I desired, without speaking to anyone outside of my intimate circle. However I also want sex so I will text girls and arrange dates even if I am not feeling it at that particular time. Operating on a means to end basis does not make one beta. And the reason your example is ludicrous is because if a man could clap his hands and have a harem of women he would do this...so now you are honestly arguing that if any man exudes effort beyond this to achieve such goals they are beta? Must EVERY action involved in slaying the pvssy be something the man "enjoys". If this is what you're actually saying then you're not arguing in reality.

 

[Serenity]

Grewd, you are right. No more dates for me. Girls will magically appear on my bed by thinking it into fruition.

Thanks pal!

Well, that's all you care about. A wet warm hole to put your d!ck into. Out of curiosity, how far would you go to fvck a woman? How much is that hole worth to you?

@deesade Let me clarify, having sexual intent and acting in a way that does not reveal the intentions is a beta move. Feel free to also answer what I asked guru1000.

 

[BeTheChange]

@deesade Let me clarify, having sexual intent and acting in a way that does not reveal the intentions is a beta move. Feel free to also answer what I asked guru1000.

So presumably all your first dates are at your place organised by a single line "DTF?" text?

 

[Serenity]

So presumably all your first dates are at your place organised by a single line "DTF?" text?

Omg, not you too! Seriously?

Does the word "subcommunication" ring any bells to any of you?

 

[Poon King]

@Poon King

I completely understand everything you are saying, I even echo the same commentary as you know. But here's my question man, understanding the Red Pill, understanding the true nature of women, understanding MGTOW......and understanding every thing else....

At the end of the day, what are we doing this women shyt for? Is it just pvssy? I mean is there a NEXT STEP to this shyt?

Man I've been dating/fvcking like crazy since 2010. It was cool as hell between 2010 - 2014 because it was so new, but in 2015 the shyt started getting boring. Once I entered 2016, I no longer even had the passion for the shyt. I'm still doing it today, but I have no passion for it. It's not fun anymore.

I've fvcked like crazy, tried every sexual position there is to try....I can't keep doing this spinning plates shyt for the rest of my life. There HAS to be something deeper in relation to this? There has to be. My question is, what is it and how the hell do we get to it?

Have you asked yourself why you expect everything with women to lead to something else? Why do you expect that? Why do you believe there has to be something deeper? Why does there have to be an end game? Serious questions.

Remember that humans are animals at the end of the day. Modern times is a very new thing. For most of human history there was nothing "deep" or "meaningful" behind f*cking women. What is different now? I'll tell you what: Mass media and Disney.

Modern humans are raised with too many expectations. Expectations their grandparents and earlier humans never had. When expectations don't live up to reality.. we are disappointed.

So back to your question of WHY do this? I can only answer for myself: I enjoy the feeling of "winning". I enjoy getting women to submit. I enjoy the sex. I enjoy the variety. I enjoy the "newness" of new women. I see commitment as a form of death. If I'm not experiencing new things then I'm not living. And the idea of limiting myself to ONE woman for the rest of my life.. no matter how attractive she is.. sounds like hell. I enjoy freedom.

I push living on your own terms with women so much for this reason: The more you compromise your values, beliefs, goals and time to please others.. the more devastated you will be if/when those people turn on you or leave you. In addition.. when you DON'T do things on your terms.. you are being a fraud and a manipulator. You are "acting" to get a result. There is no satisfaction in a phony relationship. This is why pandering is for cowards and faggots.

 

[PantyWhisperer]

Fuk Donald J Trump

Welcome troll. Looking forward to more of your insightful posts!!

 

[Tenacity]

Have you asked yourself why you expect everything with women to lead to something else? Why do you expect that? Why do you believe there has to be something deeper? Why does there have to be an end game? Serious questions.

I don't know, it's just something deep inside of me that I "feel". It could be aspects of blue pill/Disney shyt still left within me....but I honestly don't think that's the case.

I've said this before on this forum, but I'm Red Pill/semi-MGTOW more due to circumstances not choice. I come from a broke family unit, was homeless at one point, and it's always pretty much been me v.s. the world. When you are coming from those circumstances....being Red Pill/semi-MGTOW is much easier to take on because you have nothing you are walking away from.

Yes, blue pill men in a lot of ways do not display backbone towards their women....but man most of those guys are in serious LTRs with a stable family structure that also includes the other men in some sort of serious LTR or marriage. I KNOW it's the Matrix, but damn it sometimes the Matrix is better than Reality.

- I enjoyed watching Pro Wrestling when I was a kid because I thought it was real (The Matrix), once I discovered it was all staged, it's never been the same for me (Red Pill).

- I enjoyed Christmas when I was a kid because I thought Santa Claus was real (The Matrix), once I discovered it was all fake, it's never been the same for me (Red Pill).

The bible says the truth will set us FREE, but what if it's better NOT being free? I'm sorry, but for all of the plates I've spun, none of that shyt means anything. Not a damn thing. I would have MUCH rather been in a serious LTR all of this time with a chick, while being Blue Pill at the same time thinking my girl was a goddess. The moment she cheated on me or left me, I would just take my Blue Pill a.ss to the next woman and start the next LTR.