The myth that nice guys always lose

[No.Danny]

Two years later. Same argument going on.

 

[Reykhel]

Two years later. Same argument going on.

Really just two useless threads that brought no value by someone who had nothing better to
do with his Saturday.

 

[MrWiggles]

well this is beta...

Learning game (not being weak aka nice guy) and improving yourself will NOT give you super powers and net you all the beautiful women in the world BUT it will vastly improve your chances with women overall. If you are a 3-5 on the SMV scale do not expect to get 10s every other week. You can probably get girls that are 6-8s and for a lot of guys that is a hell of a lot better than fapping isn't it? Even then not every 6-8 girl is going to want you, that's just not how the world works but not being a nice guy certainly will help with getting what you want.

 

[Stugots26]

Nice guys intentionally alleviate women of their agency and accountability.

Agency is the individual power to make choices. A nice guy believes her when she cries victim and accepts her choices despite her making choices that disrespect him and his interests, because he thinks it will get him into her pants ultimately. Alpha men will always give women agency, and therefore do not accept any attempt to claim victim status.

Accountability is holding yourself responsible for your choices and actions. A nice guy will accept a woman's opportunistic sense of assuming and avoiding accountability when it suits her, and will tolerate her excuses, because he thinks it will get him into her pants. An alpha man will hold her accountable for her actions meeting her words and vice versa, always.

That's all that separates nice guys from "jerks." Jerks are desirable because they're assertive and see through the nonsense. They give women agency and accountability - always - and won't tolerate excuses or victim status. They see women as capable of making choices and don't have to save them.

 

[Yewki]

As long as a woman finds you attractive and has already PRESELECTED you, being nice will actually work in your favor, as long as is not overdone. She already wants you to be nice and generate good feelings in her.

Society and women love nice, kind, good hearted people, including men, as long as is not overdone and fake, as in when many faggots act overly nice just in hopes to get a woman to like them. There is nothing wrong with being nice to women and people. This is because is not kindness or rude behavior which attracts women.

... The reality is women can tell when you are fake, so if you are not genuinely a good person, they will be able to tell that you are trying too hard.

Aside from all the arguing going on here, I think the OP has a lot of truth in it. Yeah it could have been framed better but still.

Guys are so afraid of being made a fool by a woman, that they surround themselves with walls (and vice versa). Pretending to be cool, indifferent, and uncaring is one such wall. While this is a step up from being an obvious desperate loser who will do anything for a girl, and yes it can protect you from getting hurt... pretending to be something you're not shouldn't be the end goal.

A lot of people read these forums and their takeaway is that being c0cky and indifferent equals success, and being nice and caring is a trap. But at the end of the day that's just another confined mentality that will limit your success not just with women but people in general.

The parts I highlighted in bold above are important IMO. There is a subtle difference between being a chump and being nice. But that doesn't meant you shouldn't be a nice person.

Self absorbed dudes walking around pretending to be aloof and too cool to look up from their phones to have a friendly conversation are a dime a dozen. Same thing with girls.

 

[Reykhel]

Good guys get left behind....

wait.....bad guys get let behind.....

 

[Reykhel]

How to be the jerk women love.....

A well rounded socially adapted DJ will develop charm and
an edgy sense of humor.

Trustworthy, but edgy...........

 

[zekko]

Accountability is holding yourself responsible for your choices and actions. A nice guy will accept a woman's opportunistic sense of assuming and avoiding accountability when it suits her, and will tolerate her excuses, because he thinks it will get him into her pants. An alpha man will hold her accountable for her actions meeting her words and vice versa, always.

That's all that separates nice guys from "jerks." Jerks are desirable because they're assertive and see through the nonsense.

It's good that you put the word "jerk" in quotation marks. Because you are doing exactly what PUA gurus do when it comes to talking about jerks. I did a quick Google search on the definition of jerk - the first one that comes up "an obnoxiously contemptible person". Yep, that's what a jerk is.

But anyone reading the above paragraph will find your "jerk" to be admirable and the one who has the better qualities. And they would be right. Because PUAs only ascribe positive qualities to "jerks". But those aren't real jerks, they only exist in the mind of the PUA. In reality, you are describing what a respectable man should be. And the person in your description is not an "obnoxiously contemptible person". Not even close.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

It's good that you put the word "jerk" in quotation marks. Because you are doing exactly what PUA gurus do when it comes to talking about jerks. I did a quick Google search on the definition of jerk - the first one that comes up "an obnoxiously contemptible person". Yep, that's what a jerk is.

But anyone reading the above paragraph will find your "jerk" to be admirable and the one who has the better qualities. And they would be right. Because PUAs only ascribe positive qualities to "jerks". But those aren't real jerks, they only exist in the mind of the PUA. In reality, you are describing what a respectable man should be. And the person in your description is not an "obnoxiously contemptible person". Not even close.

A "jerk" in this connotation is just a man who doesn't let them $hit or p1ss on him. Does not kiss a$$ or pander to them.

 

[Tictac]

Without OP, this discussion began to get better!

 

[zekko]

A "jerk" in this connotation is just a man who doesn't let them $hit or p1ss on him. Does not kiss a$$ or pander to them.

Yes, exactly. And those are very admirable qualities, I would think almost anyone would think so. Which is my point. It is only in PUA-land that a "jerk" would be defined like this. To any normal person, the word "jerk", by its very definition, summons up NEGATIVE attributes, not positive ones.

 

[fastlife]

Yes, exactly. And those are very admirable qualities, I would think almost anyone would think so. Which is my point. It is only in PUA-land that a "jerk" would be defined like this. To any normal person, the word "jerk", by its very definition, summons up NEGATIVE attributes, not positive ones.

I think the issue, if you want to extrapolate things to a bigger picture is that this use of the word "jerk" is defined within a blue pill context.

From a blue pill perspective, all of us here are "jerks" just by the very act of not supplicating to women, treating them as sexual beings, and prioritizing our happiness over their own. If 18 y/o saw how I interact with women at 24 y/o, he'd think I was a total ******* (never mind that the girls are having a great time). It doesn't help matters that women often play off the idea that men they were attracted to who wouldn't commit are "jerks" or "not real men," to the guys they use for sympathy and validation.

 

[zekko]

I think the issue, if you want to extrapolate things to a bigger picture is that this use of the word "jerk" is defined within a blue pill context.

I understand the concept, but I disagree. A jerk is a jerk. It's not a good thing. I think the PUA community is completely off base on this - having self respect and standing up for yourself is not being a jerk, by anyone's definition, blue pill or not.

I do agree that women will call guys jerks after the fact, if they can't get what they wanted out of them. Doesn't make it so though.

 

[Asmodeus]

Honestly... Jerks do not win out.
A man must be confident, he must stand up for himself, he must show that he is above drama, and he must show he is independent and strong.

There is a lot of psychology that goes into "game" it is not just "act a jerk" and you get the women. Anybody who tells you to simply act like a jerk and that you will get women with it is delusional.

If I go to the bar and cuss out women and act like an ******* I doubt I will get any of them to have any level of interest in me. That is a jerk. Everyone thinks a jerk is an @sshole.
Instead I go up to women strongly and confidently, maybe even a bit of c0ckiness to get their attention. Perhaps just a bit of peacocking, but not too much that it borders on absurdity. I give them a bit of small talk, joke around use humor and make them laugh, sometimes if they are extremely egotistical I negative hit them a bit but do it in a subtle way so that I make an offhanded compliment and sublminally insult them to reduce their ego at the same time, but that is only done if necessary if they think they are better than you. You have to learn how to pass $hit tests, amplify the and joke around about it to show that you are above it. You should temper affection and infatuation always make it seem as though you have options. Do not fawn over women or shower them with affection as that shows desperation. Never cause problems or drama, and if it happens just brush it off. Or if somebody comes directly to confront you or create problems then show you are strong enough to stand up for yourself. You must be subtle about it, women are complex creatures and you have to gauge their emotional reactions and adapt to how they react to you. You have to know when to progress, when to kino, how to seize on oppritunity. These are literally fundamentals of the PUA "game".

There is a whole lot that goes into it... I do not think any of it involves strictly being a jerk. A blue pill guy may call me a jerk because I am not showering the woman with attention and compliments, because I grab her @ss or make out with her in public when she wants me to, because I show a bit of ****iness and confidence instead of being sheepish, because I joke around a lot as humor keeps a womans focus on you. But is that actually being a jerk?

 

[Stugots26]

The misunderstanding between "jerk" and jerk, as zekko points out, stems from the confusion that arises when a childish woman responds emotionally to a man who won't buy her brand of bullsh!t or accept her pretty white lies or excuses. When he holds her accountable and doesn't let her play the victim, she's "hurt," and calls him a "jerk" or an "a$$hole." But he's really being an admirable, respectable, attractive man, and the pejoratives are merely her anger and frustration at her not getting her way on her terms. She responds emotionally, and her hamster rationalizes her emotional reaction to the man as attraction to him.

 

[Reykhel]

A question of semantics...

 

[Alvafe]

I guess you guys are taking it too literal, the jerk part is not you are the jerk, or act like a jerk, but its she calling you a jerk for not kissing her ass or any people really, you guys are just closing on being a jerk, when in the reality is just you being called a jerk, and then we have that we shouldn't belive on what woman say, look on what she do

 

[latino158]

How to be the jerk women love.....

A well rounded socially adapted DJ will develop charm and
an edgy sense of humor.

Trustworthy, but edgy...........

are you really expecting me to take advice from a fat double chin subhuman with eyeglasses, ****ty hairtcute and ****ty clothing style lmao

 

[wifehunter]

My father is the prototypical niceguy/coward/beta/afc.
He lets her wear the pants, while she tries to convice eveyone otherwise. He lost after he won by giving his power away.

 

[Reykhel]

are you really expecting me to take advice from a fat double chin subhuman with eyeglasses, ****ty hairtcute and ****ty clothing style lmao

Hahahaha that was slightly funny.

However, you're an ignorant fvck. That's probably one of the reasons why you have no
friends, because you are a wave of negativity and pre-judgements. To call the guy subhuman??
Surely a projection of your own low sense of worth.

I'll let you in on a little secret. The guy in the video is one of the best day gamers around...