Is male depression mostly linked to lack of female companionship?

[Money & Muscle]

I think it's genetics. I've been skinny all my life, whether I fast or eat at buffets daily.

So youve tracked your caloric intake and taken measured steps to increase it from a week-to-week basis, pending bodyweight change?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Unlikely. It's more often linked to low T levels which are at epidemic level proportions these days, even among teenagers and guys in their early 20s.


The average 22 year old male these days has T levels around 420-430 which is the same as 70 year olds had in the 1960s.

Now ask yourself the real question. Why haven't the giant red flags been raised and why are they allowing the male endocrine system to be assaulted since day 1 on this earth(and likely before in the womb) and do nothing about it except turn a blind eye and pretend it isn't happening.

That is what needs to be figured out...raise T levels and a lot of "depression" symptoms magically disappear. Bad business for Big Pharma and Psychologists, Psychiatrists and everyone else who deals with mental health.

Testosterone is dirt cheap...most of those drugs for mental health and all the new ones that are continuously coming out are not.

"Epidemiological and observational studies highlight that men suffering from depression have lower circulating testosterone levels (17, 75, 76) and higher prevalence and greater severity of sexual symptoms (78, 95, 96, 98). "

Frontiers | The association of hypogonadism with depression and its treatments

According to World Health Organization estimates, 5% of the adult population worldwide suffers from depression. In addition to the affective, psychomotor and...

www.frontiersin.org

Why Are Men's Testosterone Levels Decreasing?

Odds are your grandad had higher testosterone levels than you — but why?

www.medichecks.com

.

This is the elephant in the room. No one seems to care or even acknowledge it.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

I lost mine at 21 too. I would agree that isn’t really considered late by today’s standards. I actually told the girl that I lost my virginity to that I was a kissless virgin at 21 out of pure nervousness and she wasn’t deterred. But I do think the lack of experience is looked at differently in your 30’s compared to early 20’s. I would probably try to avoid answering so that I’m not outright lying and would probably say something like I just want to keep the past in the past for now and I don’t think that’s a discussion we need to have at this point in time and change the subject. Do you think that would work, or is that something that most women will not let go and will persist until you give them an answer?

some decades ago, people and society would view 21 as being very late for being a virgin, but in todays modern times, its kinda the norm, even kinda the norm to surpass mid-20s or more, won't surprise me as decades go by, being a 30 year old virgin or older will not be seeing as weird anymore, but as expected or the norm.

 

[BaronOfHair]

some decades ago, people and society would view 21 as being very late for being a virgin, but in todays modern times, its kinda the norm, even kinda the norm to surpass mid-20s or more, won't surprise me as decades go by, being a 30 year old virgin or older will not be seeing as weird anymore, but as expected or the norm.

Yeah... In antiquity and Medieval centuries, it was odd to not have 5 or more kids by age 21, and to be dead by 30. Since the passing of this grand era, our quality of life hath deteriorated more gruesomely than Micheal J. Fox's fine motor skills, post-1998

 

[hellonwheels]

Now ask yourself the real question. Why haven't the giant red flags been raised and why are they allowing the male endocrine system to be assaulted since day 1 on this earth(and likely before in the womb) and do nothing about it except turn a blind eye and pretend it isn't happening.

That is what needs to be figured out...

You don't think this lower T levels is getting enough attention? I see this all the time and it baffles me people are even surprised by it. Just look at how unhealthy majority of males are with all the creature comforts of today. It’s self-assault similar to obesity. The answer is pretty simple - exercise, sunlight, healthy diet, sleep for a healthy T level unless you have some type of medical condition. Big Pharma, Joe Rogan, Nugenix are all selling snake oil that boosting T is a cure to everything when it’s not the root cause.

 

[BaronOfHair]

You don't think this lower T levels is getting enough attention? I see this all the time and it baffles me people are even surprised by it. Just look at how unhealthy majority of males are with all the creature comforts of today. It’s self-assault similar to obesity. The answer is pretty simple - exercise, sunlight, healthy diet, sleep for a healthy T level unless you have some type of medical condition. Big Pharma, Joe Rogan, Nugenix are all selling snake oil that boosting T is a cure to everything when it’s not the root cause.

I've often wondered what populations these samples are studying. If we're looking exclusively at The T Levels of

A). Guys at the lower ends of the socioeconomic ladder, who spend the majority of their off-hours binge watching Season 1-6 Game Of Thrones for the billionth time and playing X-Box


Or

B). Card-carrying Progressives in The Bay Area who've been vegan for decades

Then with these two demographics, we've covered a large percentage of the male population in Post-Industrial America. Their T Levels being lower than Kate Upton's IQ is less surprising than "discovering" most former American Idol contestants are now holding down 9-5 employment

And that being patted by Simon Cowell on the top of their skulls, after they gifted him a mediocre hummer during commercial break, was the closest most of these folks ever got to fame and fortune

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You don't think this lower T levels is getting enough attention? I see this all the time and it baffles me people are even surprised by it. Just look at how unhealthy majority of males are with all the creature comforts of today. It’s self-assault similar to obesity. The answer is pretty simple - exercise, sunlight, healthy diet, sleep for a healthy T level unless you have some type of medical condition. Big Pharma, Joe Rogan, Nugenix are all selling snake oil that boosting T is a cure to everything when it’s not the root cause.

No it's far more in depth than that. It has to do with the Advent of plastics and pesticides and environmental conditions first and foremost that load the body with Xenoestrogens that are very hard to get rid of.

None of that other stuff explains how things would drop decade over decade.

 

[Millard Fillmore]

Just a thought

You don't get envious (at least I don't) when you see another guy that makes more money than you, is more jacked, has a bigger home or drives a nicer car.

However, you will get envious (at least I do) of the attractive woman by his side and sometimes it seems like every other guy out there is in a happy relationship but yourself.

Yes, I think most male depression is linked to struggling with the opposite sex.

Yes this is a factor but having a woman on your arm is not a panacea. Wanting what others have is just another way that desire causes suffering.

Women (especially young women) emit pheromones that certainly put men in a good "mood." But again this is short term and not a long term fix to depression or loneliness. You'll either get used to one woman or multiple women, either way you'll be back at your baseline.

IME the best medicine is having a passion to pursue, whether it's a hobby, profession, or just something I love doing for its own sake. Set goals, put in the work, imagine the results and get to them.

 

[BaronOfHair]

No it's far more in depth than that. It has to do with the Advent of plastics and pesticides and environmental conditions first and foremost that load the body with Xenoestrogens that are very hard to get rid of.

None of that other stuff explains how things would drop decade over decade.

That's an assertion that's been accepted as Holy Writ around The Manosphere for awhile now, which also needs to be backed up by empirical evidence

 

[BackInTheGame78]

That's an assertion that's been accepted as Holy Writ around The Manosphere for awhile now, which also needs to be backed up by empirical evidence

It has been. Who would have thought? Let's follow common sense.

Estrogen is the hormonal marker in the body. High levels of estrogen are only typically present when it is being aromatized from Testosterone. This leads the body to assume it's overproducing testosterone, so it shuts it down. Worse, it increases SHBG to bind to testosterone rendering it inactive. So now the little T left becomes even littler due to it being rendered inactive.

End result? 20 year olds exhibiting the T levels of 70 year olds prior to when plastics and pesticides came into everyday usage in the 1950s and 60s.

Reduced testosterone tied to chemical exposure

Adults and young boys exposed to high levels of phthalates—chemicals found in plastics and some personal care products—tend to have reduced levels of testosterone in their blood compared to those with lower chemical exposure, according to a new University of Michigan study.

news.umich.edu

Reduced Testosterone Tied to Endocrine-disrupting Chemical Exposure

Men, women and children exposed to high levels of phthalates - endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in plastics and some personal care products – tended to have reduced levels of testosterone in their blood compared to those with lower chemical exposure, according to a new study published in the...

www.endocrine.org

 

[BaronOfHair]

It has been. Who would have thought? Let's follow common sense.

Estrogen is the hormonal marker in the body. High levels of estrogen are only typically present when it is being aromatized from Testosterone. This leads the body to assume it's overproducing testosterone, so it shuts it down. Worse, it increases SHBG to bind to testosterone rendering it inactive. So now the little T left becomes even littler due to it being rendered inactive.

End result? 20 year olds exhibiting the T levels of 70 year olds prior to when plastics and pesticides came into everyday usage in the 1950s and 60s.

Reduced testosterone tied to chemical exposure

Adults and young boys exposed to high levels of phthalates—chemicals found in plastics and some personal care products—tend to have reduced levels of testosterone in their blood compared to those with lower chemical exposure, according to a new University of Michigan study.

news.umich.edu

Reduced Testosterone Tied to Endocrine-disrupting Chemical Exposure

Men, women and children exposed to high levels of phthalates - endocrine-disrupting chemicals found in plastics and some personal care products – tended to have reduced levels of testosterone in their blood compared to those with lower chemical exposure, according to a new study published in the...

www.endocrine.org

Quote that first article

"While the study’s cross-sectional design limit the conclusions we can draw, our results support the hypothesis that environmental exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals such as phthalates COULD be contributing to the trend of declining testosterone and related disorders..."

Add to that the replication crisis were currently in the midst of, and the fact remains:

Chemicals in the environment may play a role in low T levels, nonetheless the larger culprit remains the obvious. Diets comprised mostly of junk food, low levels of physical activity, and minimal time spent out in the sun

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Quote that first article

"While the study’s cross-sectional design limit the conclusions we can draw, our results support the hypothesis that environmental exposure to endocrine-disrupting chemicals such as phthalates COULD be contributing to the trend of declining testosterone and related disorders..."

Add to that the replication crisis were currently in the midst of, and the fact remains:

Chemicals in the environment may play a role in low T levels, nonetheless the larger culprit remains the obvious. Diets comprised mostly of junk food, low levels of physical activity, and minimal time spent out in the sun

That would not explain why it's a consistentt 1% drop year over year for the last 45 years nor why it is a global phenomenon even where people are not eating those foods and getting exercise.

Think of the chemicals as placing a very low ceiling on your potential T levels. So instead of being able to hit 1100 as a max, now you can only hit 750 as a max.

All the other stuff simply causes the number to drop, but from a much lower potential starting point than it otherwiss would be.

No different than why people in the past used to be much shorter than people today. It wasn't the genes that are different , it was the poorer nutrition and lack of food availability that stifled their potential height.

 

[The Duke]

Most problems are never caused by just one simple thing. Its likely all of the above has led to low T levels. I'd throw in how boys are raised has a part as well.

 

[Dr.Suave]

This is why you don’t see a 6’3 Chad with tons of hot women decide to shoot up the school one day

I agree

High School Incel

So last week this 16 year old boy tried to kill a 16 year old girl with a knife or something at a high school. One version of the story is that she was his ex-gf. Other version says that he was trying to get in her pants but she friendzoned him. Apparently a teacher saved the girl but not...

www.sosuave.net

 

[hellonwheels]

A better way to put it is that loneliness is leading to male depression, not necessarily lack of female companionship. The more socially disconnected you feel leads to more of a depressive mindset.

In my relationships with women or serial dating phases I have actually had a harder time dealing with committing more time to hanging with the opposite gender. I think married guys feel this too and it amazes me how hard it seems for them to ever get a pass for hanging with the bros - or they mistakenly just don’t recognize its importance on their mental health.

It’s pretty evident with how much ex-military struggle with depression adjusting to civilian life. Filling that male comradeship and purpose (which is a natural need for males) in normal society is not easy.

Ex-military personnel’s experiences of loneliness and social isolation from discharge, through transition, to the present day

This study aimed to examine the unique factors of loneliness and social isolation within the ex-military population from discharge, through transition, to the present day.A qualitative, Phenomenological approach was adopted.In-depth semi-structured interviews ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

A better way to put it is that loneliness is leading to male depression, not necessarily lack of female companionship. The more socially disconnected you feel leads to more of a depressive mindset.

Exactly.
I often say that I prefer to be alone over being in a bad relationship, but I also know that you can feel lonely while in a relationship and that loneliness can become a depression even when you have a life partner.

It's not 'lack of women is bringing men down'. I'm sure some men think they wouldn't be lonely when they'd have a girlfriend, but not all girlfriends are the same, and when you get into a relationship in order not to be lonely anymore, you might end up with the wrong woman and feel more terrible then you'd be by yourself.

 

[inquisitor]

I don’t think it would be an all-in-one solution, but being alone all the time does weigh on me and I do think I would feel better than I do right now. Everyone else I know has had a relationship and I’m the only one who’s been alone their whole life, so it isn’t even something that they could even relate to, which makes you feel even more alone in struggling with this.

How do you think people without experience, get experience?

They pretend they have experience, and they proceed to doing. That's all there is to it.

You do it wrong or right, it's experience.
What you do for the wrong is you learn.
What you do for the right is you do it again.
Simple.

As long as you learn from the wrong, and do the right again, experience grows and grows.

If you get it right and forget it, the experience is gone.
If you get it right but ignore it, the experience is gone.
If you get it wrong and do it again, the experience is gone.
If you get it wrong and forget the lesson, the experience is gone.

If you get it wrong and wallow or be sad about it, it's part of the experience.
If you get it right and get excited, it's part of the experience.

Stop comparing. Live life on your own terms now.

Also, people can most definitely relate on being alone. All of us have been alone at some point, the difference is some people took action, took risks, took initiative. Failure did not matter. Regret is thrown out the window.

Know what you want, learn how to get it, then go get it.

 

[inquisitor]

I really do feel like dating for me is now gonna be a cycle of going out on dates, them asking about my past relationships and dating history, and then ghosting me after finding out that I don’t have any experience, an infinite loop of rejection in other words.

So don't let them know you don't have experience, and practice talking to women more. You'll be surprised how much experience you'll get when you just practice.

Also, get out of your negative mindset. Don't lose further hope by believing in something that is not even true or verified by you.

In addition to the fact that I’m concerned that a lot of women in my dating pool will now have settling down in mind and if they learn that I’ve never dated, they won’t even take me seriously, but to be fair I don’t want to rush into something like that when I’ve never dated.

So date younger women, and again, you don't have to tell them. Why tell them? Just enjoy their company.

I’ve just lost so much hope in this situation and it seems like my lack of experience is a serious issue, do you have any advice on how to get out of this?

You have all the advice you need in here. Also read The Rational Male or The Book of Pook, or a hundred more books on masculinity that has been shared in this forum. Aside from that, all you lack is action.

Just meet women. Doesn't matter yet if you want to fūck her or date her.

Just meet women. Go visit places and meet women there.

Just meet women. Listen more than you talk, so you learn more about them, so yo again the experience you need.

 

[corrector]

Exactly.
I often say that I prefer to be alone over being in a bad relationship, but I also know that you can feel lonely while in a relationship and that loneliness can become a depression even when you have a life partner.

It's not 'lack of women is bringing men down'. I'm sure some men think they wouldn't be lonely when they'd have a girlfriend, but not all girlfriends are the same, and when you get into a relationship in order not to be lonely anymore, you might end up with the wrong woman and feel more terrible then you'd be by yourself.

Yeah, at least you dont have to worry if you really have her or not when you are single. That tends to compound lonliness in relationships. Especially if she has guy friends too and does not give you that respect socially with group to introduce you as a couple to them but is secrative about that. With me this is 12 year old trauma that you dont forget even in a 10(/6/4) year dry spell.

 

[MatureDJ]

some decades ago, people and society would view 21 as being very late for being a virgin, but in todays modern times, its kinda the norm, even kinda the norm to surpass mid-20s or more, won't surprise me as decades go by, being a 30 year old virgin or older will not be seeing as weird anymore, but as expected or the norm.

Wizard

Wizard is generally agreed upon as what to call a guy who's attained thirty years of age and retained virginity. Other terms have gradually become associated with...

incels.wiki