You Don’t Need a Wingman, You Need a Therapist

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This forum has become a place where you treat women like prizes instead of real people. You run the same scripted lines and treat dating like shopping, ticking boxes instead of making a real connection. You think more reps make you better, but you ignore respect and consent. You chase a number instead of building a genuine bond. You need to ask yourself why you treat human interaction like a game and not just learn another trick. Stop chasing girls and start facing your own issues. You don’t need another wingman, you need a therapist.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

GoodMan32

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You could be onto something.

After getting a new therapist, I finally ended up getting a mild victory from an organized singles event. And a female former coworker started getting together with me one-on-one (even though there's no sex...yet)
 
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You could be onto something.

After getting a new therapist, I finally ended up getting a mild victory from an organized singles event. And a female former coworker started getting together with me one-on-one (even though there's no sex...yet)
Ah yes, the “mild victory” of a woman spending time with you without sleeping with you yet. If that’s your idea of success, it proves exactly what I said. You are still measuring progress by whether or not you get sex, not by whether you built trust or connection. Therapy is not a detour to better game. It is supposed to help you grow up emotionally. If your takeaway is just waiting for a payoff, then you missed the point. You are not evolving. You are just polishing the same tired routine with a new label. Try again. Seriously.
 

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

BPH

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Worse than my threads? At least my threads were about pick up .D
You are at least aware of your shortcomings and (supposedly) want to improve - even though you rarely listen to the advice you're given.

This person seems to think they know better and that we're all degenerates and morons.
 

Travel memoir21

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Lol a lot of people here including myself need a Great wingman, not to pick up woman but like a good friend just to chill with and have a good time, also a therapist, also a pastor or priest/spiritual counselor, a platonic female friend just to respect Women as people and a dog to practice their empathy, nurturing skills.
 

SW15

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Therapy is limited as to what it can accomplish in attraction and seduction. Going to therapy won't make you get more right swipes when using apps or get more responses to your DMs on Instagram.

Therapy probably won't make your initial openers better.

Therapy won't fix looks issues and looks are the #1 variable in attraction.

Therapy can help with some issues in intersexual interactions. It can help with some issues related to personality and your vibe.

Therapy can address traumas from failed interactions and also address mental health conditions.

It has some value but won't automatically make someone a better seducer.

Additionally, most mental health therapists will have a blue pill ideology on attraction and seduction. The typical therapist is often an older heterosexual married male who is more to a more feminist leaning woman or is a heterosexual woman who is either married or a single careerist woman.

Lifting weights and playing sports are generally better for attraction and seduction. This is because they are closely related to physique, which matters more than personality.
 

New_Journey

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making a real connection.
Who told you I wanna make a real connection? Stop projecting.

You think more reps make you better
More Plates More Dates.

ignore respect and consent.
Cause I take what I want when I want it.

You chase a number instead of building a genuine bond.
So?

You need to ask yourself why you treat human interaction like a game
Because Humans are children with bigger toys.

you need a therapist.
This your subconscious telling what you actually need so you can project it outside. I know can't understand because your mind think like you've always had, but you need to heal your inner child.

myself need a Great wingman, not to pick up woman but like a good friend just to chill with and have a good time, also a therapist, also a pastor or priest/spiritual counselor, a platonic female friend just to respect Women as people and a dog to practice their empathy, nurturing skills.
You're so fvcking needy.
 

GoodMan32

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Therapy is limited as to what it can accomplish in attraction and seduction. Going to therapy won't make you get more right swipes when using apps or get more responses to your DMs on Instagram.

Therapy probably won't make your initial openers better.

Therapy won't fix looks issues and looks are the #1 variable in attraction.

Therapy can help with some issues in intersexual interactions. It can help with some issues related to personality and your vibe.

Therapy can address traumas from failed interactions and also address mental health conditions.

It has some value but won't automatically make someone a better seducer.

Additionally, most mental health therapists will have a blue pill ideology on attraction and seduction. The typical therapist is often an older heterosexual married male who is more to a more feminist leaning woman or is a heterosexual woman who is either married or a single careerist woman.

Lifting weights and playing sports are generally better for attraction and seduction. This is because they are closely related to physique, which matters more than personality.
Even though I'm a staunch proponent of therapy,
you're right when you say therapy has its limitations. Therapy can help...but therapy isn't perfect.

With my current counselor, for example, one of the topics we're discussing is how I developed my crippling phobia of asking out a woman only to find out I misread the (what I thought were) IOIs.

Yet my counselor is aware (she's flat out admitted) she's unable to make me face my fear.
 
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Who told you I wanna make a real connection? Stop projecting.


More Plates More Dates.


Cause I take what I want when I want it.


So?


Because Humans are children with bigger toys.


This your subconscious telling what you actually need so you can project it outside. I know can't understand because your mind think like you've always had, but you need to heal your inner child.


You're so fvcking needy.
No one’s projecting. Your words and actions speak for themselves. You’ve reduced women and dating to a transactional exchange, and that’s where your “game” fails. You can take what you want, sure, but respect isn’t weakness, it’s maturity. Keep playing the child’s game if you want, but don’t be surprised when you end up alone, never understanding what real connection feels like.
 

New_Journey

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You’ve reduced women and dating to a transactional exchange
With women I exchange time & validation for sex. Like in every other relationship in human history.

Maturity is the understanding that we have only one life and if you don't get outside your head, you'll be miserable for the rest of it.

never understanding what real connection feels like.
I've had that, I know what it feels, and yes its good. But you know what is as good as connection with another human being? Being happy by yourself.

but don’t be surprised when you end up alone
What's wrong with being alone? I don't need anybody with me to feel loved.
 

Barrister

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This forum has become a place where you treat women like prizes instead of real people. You run the same scripted lines and treat dating like shopping, ticking boxes instead of making a real connection. You think more reps make you better, but you ignore respect and consent. You chase a number instead of building a genuine bond. You need to ask yourself why you treat human interaction like a game and not just learn another trick. Stop chasing girls and start facing your own issues. You don’t need another wingman, you need a therapist.
We can agree that a lot of men would do best to focus on themselves prior to focusing on women. Getting your own sh1t together is paramount in life -- better looking women and more women is simply a bonus.

I am not sure where you are getting that SS is a place where women are treated like "prizes instead of real people." And let's be honest, early stage dating is completely transactional for both sides. Maybe that isn't with money - but at a minimum with your time. Your argument is conflating that with the thought that acknowledging dating's transactional nature is "ignoring respect and consent." Some guys (and women even), certainly are playing the numbers game. But I think you're making blanket statements suggesting that this forum has adopted that attitude across the board.
 

BillyPilgrim

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We can agree that a lot of men would do best to focus on themselves prior to focusing on women. Getting your own sh1t together is paramount in life -- better looking women and more women is simply a bonus.

I am not sure where you are getting that SS is a place where women are treated like "prizes instead of real people." And let's be honest, early stage dating is completely transactional for both sides.
This is the main point OP is missing - it's not worth pursuing real connections if you're not able to weed out the undesirables first, which necessitates taking a "transactional" approach in the early stages..

The second key point, is that via feminism, the female gender started the "war". Whether or not they were misled into it or not, the reality still exists.
 
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This is the main point OP is missing - it's not worth pursuing real connections if you're not able to weed out the undesirables first, which necessitates taking a "transactional" approach in the early stages..

The second key point, is that via feminism, the female gender started the "war". Whether or not they were misled into it or not, the reality still exists.
@Barrister @BillyPilgrim

While it’s true that personal development is essential for anyone, framing dating as a “transactional” process is reductive. People are not commodities to be evaluated based on cost-benefit analysis. Dating involves screening for compatibility, but when you reduce it to utility, you risk eroding the conditions necessary for genuine connection (vulnerability, empathy, and mutual respect.)

As for personal growth, the goal should be self-improvement for the sake of flourishing, not just to access “better” women. Growth motivated by conquest is instrumentalization, not maturity. The intention behind the growth matters as much as the outcome.

Your reference to feminism as the source of a “gender war” is problematic. :( Feminism is not a zero-sum reaction against men. It’s a movement for equality, aiming to expand rights, dignity, and opportunities for women and to liberate men from restrictive roles. To frame it as an aggressor misrepresents its core principles and ignores the structural inequities that made it necessary in the first place.

The “gender war” narrative only creates defensiveness and prevents genuine understanding. It perpetuates grievance-based identity politics and discourages introspection. Instead of viewing relationships through a lens of conflict, it would be more productive to approach them with empathy and mutual respect.

In sum, yes, dating involves discernment, and yes, personal growth is important. But the solution isn’t to harden into strategic detachment or blame feminism. It’s to become more emotionally literate, accountable, and willing to see women as equals, not as obstacles or prizes to be won.
 

Just because a woman listens to you and acts interested in what you say doesn't mean she really is. She might just be acting polite, while silently wishing that the date would hurry up and end, or that you would go away... and never come back.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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With women I exchange time & validation for sex. Like in every other relationship in human history.


Maturity is the understanding that we have only one life and if you don't get outside your head, you'll be miserable for the rest of it.


I've had that, I know what it feels, and yes its good. But you know what is as good as connection with another human being? Being happy by yourself.


What's wrong with being alone? I don't need anybody with me to feel loved.
What you are describing is not entirely incorrect. People have always negotiated relationships through exchanges of time, care, support, and, at times, desire. However, reducing those dynamics purely to an exchange of validation for sex is an oversimplification that reflects a particular worldview more than it reflects the full reality of human relationships.

Relationships are not built on transactions; they are built on reciprocity. The difference is subtle but essential. A transactional mindset says, “I give only to get.” Reciprocity, on the other hand, says, “I give because I value the connection, and I trust that it will be mutual.” One approach leads to detachment and constant calculation, while the other allows for intimacy, complexity, and emotional growth.

You are absolutely right to emphasize self-reliance. Emotional independence is crucial. However, there is an important distinction between contentment with solitude and disconnection that is disguised as empowerment. Often, when people say, “I am fine being alone,” they are masking hurt, mistrust, or past disappointment. That is not always the case, but it is worth asking yourself: are you truly fulfilled on your own, or are you avoiding the vulnerability that comes with being truly seen?

There is no shame in choosing solitude, but when that choice is driven by cynicism or fear, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Real maturity is not only knowing that you can be alone. It is also knowing when connection is meaningful enough to be worth the risk. :up:
 
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Therapy is limited as to what it can accomplish in attraction and seduction. Going to therapy won't make you get more right swipes when using apps or get more responses to your DMs on Instagram.

Therapy probably won't make your initial openers better.

Therapy won't fix looks issues and looks are the #1 variable in attraction.

Therapy can help with some issues in intersexual interactions. It can help with some issues related to personality and your vibe.

Therapy can address traumas from failed interactions and also address mental health conditions.

It has some value but won't automatically make someone a better seducer.

Additionally, most mental health therapists will have a blue pill ideology on attraction and seduction. The typical therapist is often an older heterosexual married male who is more to a more feminist leaning woman or is a heterosexual woman who is either married or a single careerist woman.

Lifting weights and playing sports are generally better for attraction and seduction. This is because they are closely related to physique, which matters more than personality.
SW15, your comment highlights a common but narrow framing of attraction, one that centers heavily on aesthetics and short‑term tactics while sidelining the deeper psychological and social dimensions of human connection.

Yes, therapy will not change your jawline or make your Instagram DMs more effective overnight, but that argument misses the point. The purpose of therapy is not to “game” others into attraction. It is to help you understand your patterns, regulate your emotions, build self‑awareness, and form healthy, sustainable relationships, not just generate initial interest.

You are right that physical health and confidence matter. Lifting weights and playing sports can improve both. However, when you suggest that therapy is inherently “blue pill” or ideologically biased, you reveal more about a distrust of emotional vulnerability than about therapists themselves. Therapy is not about adopting political ideologies. It is about confronting discomfort and building resilience, and that will make you more attractive, just not in the superficial, swipe‑based way you seem to value most.

Attraction is not just about looks. It is about presence, maturity, emotional intelligence, and how you make people feel. Therapy will not make you a seducer. It will make you someone worth being seduced by.
 

New_Journey

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Relationships are not built on transactions
My rule is, first sex and then if everything goes well and I keep liking her, eventually, relationship. You are just a frustrated nobody telling others how to run their dating life, without actually having one. Stay on your lane, rookie.
 

BadBoy89

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Relationships are not built on transactions; they are built on reciprocity. The difference is subtle but essential. A transactional mindset says, “I give only to get.” Reciprocity, on the other hand, says, “I give because I value the connection, and I trust that it will be mutual.” One approach leads to detachment and constant calculation, while the other allows for intimacy, complexity, and emotional growth.
Decent point. The problem is once a woman knows a man values her, she will use it to her advantage and eventually destroy him, it
The intimacy, complexity, and emotional growth, that’s fine, but a man shouldn’t look for it. It should come becomes the woman values the relationship and the man sees value in keeping her around.

ALL women look at relationships as transactional. Tit for tat. They don’t look for closeness or emotional growth, they look for “what resources can I extract from him?”

You are absolutely right to emphasize self-reliance. Emotional independence is crucial. However, there is an important distinction between contentment with solitude and disconnection that is disguised as empowerment. Often, when people say, “I am fine being alone,” they are masking hurt, mistrust, or past disappointment.
You don’t know that, That’s like saying when people say “I am fine with my salary”, they are masking anger, frustration, and lack of skills. You are assuming with that statement,

are you truly fulfilled on your own, or are you avoiding the vulnerability that comes with being truly seen?
Again you are talking in a way where you believe vulnerability and connection is what turns a woman on, It doesn’t, A woman gets turned on by a man’s look, his height, his hair, his presence, His vulnerability means nothing to her. She will be like “this guy is going to protect my children?: Not saying don’t ever open up, but be VERY careful what you reveal to any woman,

There is no shame in choosing solitude, but when that choice is driven by cynicism or fear, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Real maturity is not only knowing that you can be alone. It is also knowing when connection is meaningful enough to be worth the risk. :up:
Decent point.

But a man should ask himself, what does he need a relationship for? I don’t think men are alone out of fear and bitterness, I think it’s more “the return isn’t what I want”

A lot of men don’t want to get into a relationship with a woman who is getting less attractive by the minute, who does not allow him to sleep with any other woman, who has legal, social, economic power to destroy him at any time, who has society to protect her in case he does anything wrong, who has sex based on her schedule, who expects more out of the relationship the longer it goes, Not a great deal.

That being said, I think a lot of men DO want to be in a relationship with a woman.
 

Barrister

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@Barrister @BillyPilgrim

While it’s true that personal development is essential for anyone, framing dating as a “transactional” process is reductive. People are not commodities to be evaluated based on cost-benefit analysis. Dating involves screening for compatibility, but when you reduce it to utility, you risk eroding the conditions necessary for genuine connection (vulnerability, empathy, and mutual respect.)

As for personal growth, the goal should be self-improvement for the sake of flourishing, not just to access “better” women. Growth motivated by conquest is instrumentalization, not maturity. The intention behind the growth matters as much as the outcome.

In sum, yes, dating involves discernment, and yes, personal growth is important. But the solution isn’t to harden into strategic detachment or blame feminism. It’s to become more emotionally literate, accountable, and willing to see women as equals, not as obstacles or prizes to be won.
I can tell you've given this a lot of thought and I don't think that is a bad thing. At the same time, you sound very idealistic which probably makes sense given your age.

I will agree with you 100% that "the goal should be self-improvement for the sake of flourishing, not just access to 'better' women." And, in fact, that very tenet is preached here over and over by a lot of members. Focus on yourself and the women are simply a bonus. Your OP directly disputes that notion, but it is true. You just need to know where to look on this forum. You can of course find the black pill or MGTOW malcontent posters here and I think that is what you are (wrongly) focusing on.

I hate to break this to you, but dating IS transactional with primarily time and to lesser extent money. Whether you see women as equals or simply a piece of meat to stick your d1ck into doesn't change that fact. But let's be completely clear on this: this site preaches that YOU as the man are the "prize." Not the woman. That is part of the transformative process that SS puts men through.
 
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