You can dump on AD all you want....

[TommyD]

Some of you out there can dump on AD all you want, but this man knows what he is talking about. Listen to experience. He knows of what he speaks.

What you all should be listening and looking for is a man who has been there, done that, and lived to tell about his experiences. What is more important than that even is if he has learned from those experiences. In my opinion, AD has learned... and he has learned a lot.

The 'nice guy' stuff works to a point. By this I mean, to the point of friendship. You have to present a challenge, a reason as to why the woman will notice you. Everyone likes a challenge. Personally, if a woman comes up to me and makes it too easy for me to get with her, I walk the other way. BORING!!! Next candidate please!

The dating and mating game has been going on for hundreds of millions of years... and it boils down to this: the men do the picking, but ultimately, the WOMEN do the choosing. The power is all in the womens hands. They bare the offspring, therefore, they are the scarce commodity. They do the choosing as to which partner they take as their mate.

The DJ techniques that are being utilized by some are used to even the playing field. Men use them to get a woman who is interested in them MORE interested in them. By being a scarce commodity, we are wanted more.

It took a lot of failed dates, frustrating relationships, and head-scratching to realize this. Actually, it was on of my courses in university that got me thinking along these lines.

Some of you out there may think that the DJ approach is heartless, and crass. But let me tell those of you who aren't already out of highschool/don't know what it's really like out there: the dating world is sometimes heartless and crass.

There are a lot of games being played out there, and the DJ approach is being used by those who know how to use it to weed out the ones who play the games. Personally, I use most of the DJ 'rules', not because they are 'rules' but because I found them to work even before I stumbled upon this DJ site.

If a woman is giving you signs that she couldn't care less about going out with you, but hasn't said the word "NO", then you don't need to hear the word... move on. Too much emphasis is on what we say and not enough emphasis is on what we do or act.

Just my .02$

TommyD

 

[Devlar]

Originally posted by TommyD:
Some of you out there can dump on AD all you want, but this man knows what he is talking about. Listen to experience. He knows of what he speaks.

As far as I'm concerned, he doesn't, and I will continue to dump on anti-dump (has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?) because I believe what he's doing is quite immoral.

Originally posted by TommyD:
What you all should be listening and looking for is a man who has been there, done that, and lived to tell about his experiences. What is more important than that even is if he has learned from those experiences. In my opinion, AD has learned... and he has learned a lot.

Why should anyone listen to someone who couldn't keep his marrage together? Now he "supposidly" is different

Bull****

Originally posted by TommyD:
The 'nice guy' stuff works to a point. By this I mean, to the point of friendship. You have to present a challenge, a reason as to why the woman will notice you. Everyone likes a challenge.

The whole point is to be exciting. You can be a jerk and still bore the hell out of women.

Originally posted by TommyD:
The dating and mating game has been going on for hundreds of millions of years... and it boils down to this: the men do the picking, but ultimately, the WOMEN do the choosing. The power is all in the womens hands. They bare the offspring, therefore, they are the scarce commodity. They do the choosing as to which partner they take as their mate.

I totally agree with that... but that doesn't really have much to do with anything now does it.

Originally posted by TommyD:
The DJ techniques that are being utilized by some are used to even the playing field. Men use them to get a woman who is interested in them MORE interested in them. By being a scarce commodity, we are wanted more.

No, this is where you've got it wrong. All of those techniques are nothing more than tricks to get someone into the sack while delaying the release of the true fact that you and your partner aren't compatible.

Nothing more than dispicible behavoir.

Originally posted by TommyD:
But let me tell those of you who aren't already out of highschool/don't know what it's really like out there: the dating world is sometimes heartless and crass./quote]

OF COURSE!!! THAT'S THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN!

But by using things to stop yourself from getting hurt by lessening your emotional attachment to someone will always leave you heartless and crass. Don't play the eye for an eye game, cause no one ever wins.

Originally posted by TommyD:
There are a lot of games being played out there, and the DJ approach is being used by those who know how to use it to weed out the ones who play the games.

Your so called techniques are nothing more than games, so why would you not settle for something in your partner that you do yourself?

Originally posted by TommyD:
If a woman is giving you signs that she couldn't care less about going out with you, but hasn't said the word "NO", then you don't need to hear the word... move on. Too much emphasis is on what we say and not enough emphasis is on what we do or act.

AMEN TO THAT, AMEN TO THAT


------------------
Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

 

[TommyD]

Delvar, have you succeeded in everything you have done. Is everything you have tried been flawless? ARE YOU PERFECT?!

"NO!!!" Dumping on a guy about his marriage is really, really low. Bitter much? You have some issues to deal with yourself.

Why is the AD and DJ approach so immoral? Because it is giving us some power back into the dating scene where women have been the queens for millions of years (that is why that was so important).

Sound like to me that you are to afraid to try these techniques and hide behind a 'moral stand'. If so, that's your call, just don't knock others who try it and find success.

Excitement wears out to the mundane lives we all live. You can only do so much exciting things for so long until the exciting becomes mundane itself. But if you throw a little idea not to call every day, you suddenly find out that you have a lot to talk about when you are together. That's what makes things exciting... but you also used a DJ approach... parrish the thought!

As for the DJ approach being trickery, I say this: False! An example of tricks is saying you call tommrow when you really won't. A trick is getting someone to buy you a drink or two or three when you really have no interest in them beyond their ability to buy you drinks. The DJ approach is not trickery... some may interpret it as fooling the woman, but it makes no promises that aren't willing to be kept. You ask/demand (for lack of a better word), for their number with the intent of using it. You guage the womans interest level to see if it's worth your time. Not trickery... just common sense. The DJ approach is common sense when you really think about it... it's just that we were socialized by watching T.V about all this shivelry and romantic crap that woman don't really pay much attention too.

Now some people may use these techniques to get laid, and get as much muff as they can. That is their business. No where to my knowledge does the DJ techniques advocate such behaviour. You shouldn't blame the system if some individuals use it in a way that it wasn't solely intended to be used for.

I don't know what else to say... If you don't like what we have to say on this forum, why are you still here? You don't need to be the self proclaimed voice of reason.

I'm just sick of your constant digs and hollier than thou attitude.

TommyD

[This message has been edited by TommyD (edited 08-25-2000).]

 

[Devlar]

Originally posted by TommyD:
Delvar, have you succeeded in everything you have done. Is everything you have tried been flawless? ARE YOU PERFECT?!

I'm not perfect and i never will state i'm perfect, I've had my tribulations just as much as the next guy, I just want people to see this guy for who he really is

Originally posted by TommyD:
"NO!!!" Dumping on a guy about his marriage is really, really low. Bitter much? You have some issues to deal with yourself.

Yes, i do agree i pushed it a little and I apologize, but as far as I'm concerned past experience is a good indication of who someone is. Again, I apologize for the remark it was uncalled for.

Originally posted by TommyD:
Why is the AD and DJ approach so immoral? Because it is giving us some power back into the dating scene where women have been the queens for millions of years (that is why that was so important).

Except we have always been the kings.
I consider them immoral because all they are is a bunch of tricks. You ignore compatibility, you ignore values and preference. You try to make it seem as if you are the right guy, mostly for the sex, instead of finding a woman that's right for you.

Originally posted by TommyD:
"Sound like to me that you are to afraid to try these techniques and hide behind a 'moral stand'. If so, that's your call, just don't knock others who try it and find success.

Guess what?!? Been there done that, I'm a convert the other way, jerk to gentilemen. Believe me when I say the nice guy will always have the upper hand in a relationship.

I've tried it and I'll knock it

Originally posted by TommyD:
Excitement wears out to the mundane lives we all live. You can only do so much exciting things for so long until the exciting becomes mundane itself. But if you throw a little idea not to call every day, you suddenly find out that you have a lot to talk about when you are together. That's what makes things exciting... but you also used a DJ approach... parrish the thought!

I have never said call every day! That's called stalking they have laws against that kind of behavior my friend. I'm saying don't pull that let's wait 31-days before i call her for the first time crap. You'll end up ignored.

Originally posted by TommyD:
As for the DJ approach being trickery, I say this: False!........The DJ approach is not trickery... some may interpret it as fooling the woman, but it makes no promises that aren't willing to be kept.

If it wasn't trickery there wouldn't be anyone interpretting it that way, friend.

Originally posted by TommyD:
You guage the womans interest level to see if it's worth your time.

That's not the part I have a problem with.

Originally posted by TommyD:
it's just that we were socialized by watching T.V about all this shivelry and romantic crap that woman don't really pay much attention too.

AHAHAHA, you think women don't pay attension to that crap???

Did you know that the romance novel industry is larger than porn at the moment? Believe me, if they didn't pay attension, those books wouldn't sell.

The problem is too many guys overdo the chivalry thing and it turns into obsession.

Originally posted by TommyD:
Now some people may use these techniques to get laid, and get as much muff as they can. That is their business. No where to my knowledge does the DJ techniques advocate such behaviour. You shouldn't blame the system if some individuals use it in a way that it wasn't solely intended to be used for.

All those techniques will get you muff as you say but they are useless when it comes to forming a stable relationship with someone.

Originally posted by TommyD:
"I don't know what else to say... If you don't like what we have to say on this forum, why are you still here? You don't need to be the self proclaimed voice of reason.

Because this isn't the Anti-Dump idiot forum, I come here to listen to people who actually know what they hell they're talking about like mellow mel, K and accationally Adonis

Originally posted by TommyD:
"I'm just sick of your constant digs and hollier than thou attitude.

Your opinion of me is of no consiquence, I believe what I believe. I may be a genitleman but I'm not about to go turning the other cheek when someone picks a fight with me.

------------------
Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

[This message has been edited by Devlar (edited 08-25-2000).]

 

[Marauder]

Originally posted by TommyD:
Some of you out there can dump on AD all you want, but this man knows what he is talking about. Listen to experience. He knows of what he speaks.

What you all should be listening and looking for is a man who has been there, done that, and lived to tell about his experiences. What is more important than that even is if he has learned from those experiences. In my opinion, AD has learned... and he has learned a lot.

The 'nice guy' stuff works to a point. By this I mean, to the point of friendship. You have to present a challenge, a reason as to why the woman will notice you. Everyone likes a challenge. Personally, if a woman comes up to me and makes it too easy for me to get with her, I walk the other way. BORING!!! Next candidate please!

The dating and mating game has been going on for hundreds of millions of years... and it boils down to this: the men do the picking, but ultimately, the WOMEN do the choosing. The power is all in the womens hands. They bare the offspring, therefore, they are the scarce commodity. They do the choosing as to which partner they take as their mate.

The DJ techniques that are being utilized by some are used to even the playing field. Men use them to get a woman who is interested in them MORE interested in them. By being a scarce commodity, we are wanted more.

It took a lot of failed dates, frustrating relationships, and head-scratching to realize this. Actually, it was on of my courses in university that got me thinking along these lines.

Some of you out there may think that the DJ approach is heartless, and crass. But let me tell those of you who aren't already out of highschool/don't know what it's really like out there: the dating world is sometimes heartless and crass.

There are a lot of games being played out there, and the DJ approach is being used by those who know how to use it to weed out the ones who play the games. Personally, I use most of the DJ 'rules', not because they are 'rules' but because I found them to work even before I stumbled upon this DJ site.

If a woman is giving you signs that she couldn't care less about going out with you, but hasn't said the word "NO", then you don't need to hear the word... move on. Too much emphasis is on what we say and not enough emphasis is on what we do or act.

Just my .02$

TommyD

Great post TommyD!...I am in the same camp as you & AD....& I dare say the dating world is hell of a jungle....Sad to say only those who are battle-scarred and seasoned would really know how to appreciate AD's experience

 

[Anti-Dump]

TommyD,

Thanks for the support. Your posts are very interesting. You said what I just don't have the patience to say.

The DJ way is not trickery just like you said. You see this so clearly. It's UNCOMMON, common sense. Sure, you could use it to create high interest and screw the girl then drop her the next day. But this is unlikely.

Guys that use these methods are interested in LOVE not just sex.
We don't have a short attention span. Except with an UN-interested woman! He,he,he!!!!

It's funny Devlar should say that the DJ way is 'immoral'. If a girl is not interested in us, we don't get sex first like he does then later drop the girl. We drop the girl long before any sex.

It's 'immoral' for guys to be played as SUCKERS. That's immoral. It's immoral for guys to be USED so the ladies can get gifts and free concerts. From guys that they just don't care about.

We will be SUCKERS like Devlar no longer. We are wise now and it is TOO LATE for the ladies to do anything now. TOO LATE. It's all over. If they even think about going on a date to kill time, they may find themselves WALKING home from the restaurant.

If I'm on a date and a woman tells me about some guy she dated a week ago, she will be paying for HALF of that check.

She BETTER have her focus on me and only me. Devlar and the rest just want to keep you being a BIG , DAMN, SUCKER.

End of Game!

Anti-dump

P.S., Thanks Marauder for your input too.

 

[Fakir]

AD, Iam with you on this too. I dont use these methods to get laid. But I have been through the free concerts and movies thing and I dont want to be used like that again.
But then, we are all different and what works for one will not work for another. Its better to debate these things without taking personal digs.

 

[dymesman]

I agree with AD, these girls are on a new level than before. MOney has taken over things, women are independent as hell now, most don't want a man to slow them down, they just want a man to lay the pipe once in a while and go about his business. How many times have you knew people who broke up after 2-3 years of dating. It is like it is cool to break up these days, everyone is doing it. Pretty women think the world of themselves, don't want you if you make under 70k, don't want you if you are not muscalar, or this or that. I can't take the rules that these women have anymore. THE LOVE THING I DEAD! I always thought sex was something sacred to be shared between two poeple for ever, but it seems like girls **** differnet dudes every month, becasue they break up with the boyfriends on the regular. Never even knew the guy's mom or father, just knew he acted cool and had a bunch of friends who ran the whole block, so she ****** him to get known.Probably had a benz, or another fat ride, or something else. C'mon delvar, you are a great guy but you need to get down with the program buddy, if you have a great girl, than more power to you, but most of these h0es are'nt like that these days.I am tired of games with these h0es, get p***y and done it, make a h0e chase my a$$ when I murder the a$$ and not call her in two weeks, make her feel like a a$$ when she is chasing after ME!

 

[Devlar]

I'm not here to change your mind about anything, I just want you to see that you will never find love the AD way

Your isolating yourself, your creating mystery and that will only lead to self destruction.

The love thing is not dead, it never will be it will outlive everyone. The problem is that everyone thinks that everything to life can be bought, unfortunately no 100k salary, benz and muscular body can buy you what you need.

You can date all the ho's you want, i wont, and because you date them more women become ho's. If every man on the planet gained some balls and began to dump women for features other than their fat ass, you'd be more likely to find someone that is compatible with your intelect and personality because your not dating women who want your wallet instead of you heart.

It's not a matter of taking crap from women, if it was i would have said something about that, but i'm all for people defending themselves from being walked over. The point is to do it in a way that doesn't make you look like an a$shole.

As far as dumping on AD, I do it because he constantly knocks the nice guy, and uses me in examples and where i come from those are fighting words. I will knock AD every chance i get if he continues doing this, and no amount of supporters will change my mind about him.

There is no program, and that's it.


------------------
Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

 

[Jack]

Devlar,
It's time for you to get with the program. You and your advice is played out. Stop resisting and just conform. Women these days will walk all over you if you try to act like those men in their romance novels. AD's advice is up to date. You can find love by using AD's advice, you just have to use your common sense. If you find a nice lady that you can see yourself spending the rest of you life with, then your common sense will tell you to not just use her to fulfill your sexually desire's.

------------------
Learn from the past, live in the present, and prepare for the future.

 

[Devlar]

Originally posted by Jack:
Devlar,
It's time for you to get with the program. You and your advice is played out.

Am not and never will be, friend

Originally posted by Jack:
Stop resisting and just conform.

It's people like you that kill induviduality in North America. I hope a cult never finds you...

Originally posted by Jack:
Women these days will walk all over you if you try to act like those men in their romance novels.

This is probibly a bad example, but here goes. Have you ever seen the show "change of heart"? If you haven't let me tell you a bit on what it's based, two people who aren't sure of how their relationship is going, go out and date their "dream date", then they get to decide to stay together or go with their new date. Now if you've ever seen that you'd know that the guy that never takes his woman out to a fancy resturant, or gives her flowers etc Usually get's left. Romance isn't dead, it's just too many people either are too cheap to do it or overdo it.

Originally posted by Jack:
AD's advice is up to date.

AD is suggesting something that was around 50,000 years ago. Grab your woman, and club her, that's about it. All your doing is delaying the inevidble, when she runs away from you

Originally posted by Jack:
You can find love by using AD's advice, you just have to use your common sense.

AD's advice bewilders common sense. I don't even think you can use AD and common sense in the same sentence. His ideas are based on generalizations, not common sense. People like mellow mel and K know what common sense is.

Originally posted by Jack:
If you find a nice lady that you can see yourself spending the rest of you life with, then your common sense will tell you to not just use her to fulfill your sexually desire's.

See above...

You can call me arcaic, old-fashioned, but I know how to please a woman. I know how to use my common sense instead of CONFORMING to some idiots idea of what should be dating.

------------------
Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

[This message has been edited by Devlar (edited 08-26-2000).]

 

[Smitty]

I usually don't read posts like this, but I was bored so I took a peak at it. I guess I'll throw in my own 2 cents. First of all Devlar and Anti-Dump are two people with strong opinions and for that they should both be respected. Any personal shots or remarks is plain immature. Look I've been hurt a lot by girls, and its been because I have been a nice guy. Dev, I mean I wish I could find a girl that I could treat like a queen, but the majority of the girls out there aren't deserving. Girls have really hurt me, and at times I have really hated them, yet for some reason when I like a girl I can't help but act nice, so I guess I shoot myself in the foot. In my opinion Anti-Dump's advice is for someone that has been absolutely hurt badly by women, because by taking it you will not get hurt. But on the other hand I can't see how someone can be personally happy if they are playing a game all the time and not necarsily being true. I used to be the most untrusting guy there was. I mean I wouldn't trust anyone, and yeah I saved myself from a lot of hurt, but I was not happy. I still am very hesitant with trust, but I have opened myself up more. There is a saying that is absolutely true.

"It is happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust"

Just know I respect the both of you. Devlar definitely has a lot of character. Its obvious that Anti-Dump has a big following on this board, so Devlar has a lot of character to voice his opinion. I am sure there are others who disagree with AD but don't voice it.

 

[Devlar]

Thanks Smitty

Originally posted by Smitty:
Any personal shots or remarks is plain immature.

Again, I apologize for that, it was quite unacceptable.

Originally posted by Smitty:
Look I've been hurt a lot by girls, and its been because I have been a nice guy.

No, it's been because you let them walk over you. Being nice has nothing to do with it, there's alot people that can pull of being nice but still keeping their dignity.

Originally posted by Smitty:
Dev, I mean I wish I could find a girl that I could treat like a queen, but the majority of the girls out there aren't deserving.

Okay, all these people talk about how they don't want to supplicate to women right? Unfortunately, it's only talk, the fact remains that if you use things like mystery your just confroming to her preferences rather than finding a woman that matches yours. Be picky Smithy, don't date gold diggers and tramps that will only hurt you.

Originally posted by Smitty:
Girls have really hurt me, and at times I have really hated them, yet for some reason when I like a girl I can't help but act nice, so I guess I shoot myself in the foot.

There is nothing wrong with that, you just have to be able to set a limit in your mind. No Limit, then there is a problem.

Originally posted by Smitty:
"It is happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust"

That is the opitomie of everything I've been trying to say.

I think we all have to learn that pain is a teacher.

Originally posted by Smitty:
I am sure there are others who disagree with AD but don't voice it.

Can't really comment on that, or I'd be guessing.



------------------
Devlar

Remember its hard to be a gentileman, but that doesn't mean it's not fun

 

[TommyD]

Okay, I've just got home from a wonderful date with this really nice woman I just met tonight at work. (Time to gloat) I met her walking a co-workers food. Got to talking with her, and asked her what she and her friends were doing later tonight. Well, to make a long story short, we went out to to play some pool. She's a cool woman to hang with, and she seems like I'd like to get to know her better... I actually exchanged numbers with her.

Okay, here is the dillyoe on the posts that I've been reading so far:

Personally, I've tried the total 'nice guy' approach. I've tried it for about 22+ years of my life. I've been in one really serious relationship... until she cheated on me. We broke up after a rutt we'd been in after she got back from vacation, (my idea), and later, after about two weeks, I found out about the cheating.

I've been a really good guy for all my life. I'm still a great guy to go out with. I just won't let a woman or any other person walk over me. I'll call them on their bullsh!t. I won't ever let someone pull a fast one over me. I've been there, done that, and won't let it happen again.

A woman speaks more clearly with her actions than with her words... this I have learned the hard way... and that is what I've been trying to tell you other young men out there. Women do speak and they talk a lot... sometimes too much, but they speak more clearly if you actually listen and understand what they are saying through their actions.

As for AD, I agree with much of his advise, but I'd be a fool if I listened to all of his advise. You'd be a fool if you listened to all of my advise. You'd be a fool if you listened to all of anybody's advise. Get my point?

While saying that, I still do think that AD, Marauder, and myself to name a few, know what it is really like out there. The dating scene in highschool and college/university is a joke. It's so easy to get a date/girlfriend/lay. I just graduated university, but just wait unitl I get back to school for my grad course...

Actually if you try enough it's easy to get laid no matter where you are. But for myself, and where I am now, I'd rather get quality than quantity... I'm getting to that stage where I would like to find someone worth of my time... I hardly have time to chill by myself... let alone waste time with a woman who I hardly want to spend my precious time off with.

That is why the DJ approach is so valuable to me... I can decipher whether or not a woman is interested enough in me in order for me to invest my time in her. Before if I'd ask a woman out, and she'd give me the run-around, I wouldn't quit. I'd still try to work her. Now I know not to bother. If I 'ask' a woman for her number, and she instead asks me for mine... I know to forget her asap.

Through the DJ approach at looking at things, I've learned to work, and build confidence, and at the same time, not sweat the things that I would have sweat before.

And for the record, I won't give flowers just for the sake of giving flowers. Women learn to take that kind of thing for granted. I used to give my ex flowers every time we went out... and I'd take her places like the theatre (not the movies, I mean the real theatre: like professional plays), all the time. I'd pick her up in the morning before school, carry her books, buy her lunch, dinner... make her breakfast... not every day mind you, but you'd think she'd appreciate that wouldn't you? Well she did at first... but after a couple of weeks... she learned to take that kind of thing for granted.

My ex still thinks I'm the catch of the century. I have limited contact with her, but she still thinks this way. So I ask, why is she with another guy?? Well, she likes not being treated like I treated her. I got old... my niceness got old. This new guy is not so nice... he stands up for himself, he doesn't do the things I did for her... and she is now engaged to him.

Imagine that! A not so nice guy getting the benifit when a really nice guy is busting his ass to be romantic gets old. Women take romantic gestures for granted if they are done often.

This post is getting too long so I'll cut it short... I just hope some of you clueless people out there actually listen... if you don't: don't complain about your plight... me Marauder, and AD have told you time and again.

TommyD

 

[Ko-B]

this is from the Ross Jeffries book:

Many people who read the rough draft of this book were upset by parts of it. Invariably, I'd hear the same complaint. "These tactics you're teaching probably work really well. We thought the parts on power and confidence and on meeting women were great. But some of the actual seduction techniques are down right dishonest and unfair. They really don't give the woman any choice. Why don't you just leave them out of the book? Then no one could possibly have any objections. "OK. Let's get the "unfair" charge out of the way. Yes, some, and I mean SOME of the seduction tactics in this book could easily be classified as "unfair." And, truth to tell, I had some serious moral reservations about putting them in the book. However, "unfair" and "fair" are relative terms. If you and I are in a boxing match, and we are both fighting by the rules, then it is totally unfair for me to kick you in the nuts and poke you in the eyes. You are fighting by the rules, and so should I.

But, if YOU start fighting dirty, I will feel under no moral obligation whatsoever to continue to stand there like a fool and take it. I'm going to toss out all the rules and fight to win, no matter what it takes.

Unfortunately, when you deal with women, you may often find yourself in that type of situation. They expect you to play by the rules, but they feel perfectly free to do whatever THEY want. For example, lots of women are more than happy to spend your money and time, and generally lead you on, letting you think you have a reward (sexual) coming. They talk about sex on the date, touch you a lot, and ACT very seductive. Then when you make a pass, they freak out and scream about what animals men are, how we're only after one thing. Or they let you have it with that famous line "I'm just not attracted to you." Maybe you find out that she was just us ing you as a social "spare tire" because her boyfriend was out of town for a few weeks and she didn't want to sit at home alone and look at the four walls.

Of course, if you really want to be a "gentleman" you may not find any of this out until the third or fourth date. You don't want to behave like an animal and make a pass on the first date, do you? So you hold off awhile, and then the slap in the face hurts even more.

Now, any chick who pulls this off DESERVES to be on the receiving end of the most unfair tactics you can use. You are under no moral obligation to be her victim, and you are a fool if you permit it.

So, by all means, play fair with a woman until she shows you that she is playing unfair with you. As soon as she starts to pull ****, then either walk away completely or let her have it with everything you have in your arsenal.

And while we're on the subject of fair, is it "fair" that the good-looking and rich guys should get all the beautiful women while you and I have to settle for the dogs? Are you any less deserving of complete sexual satisfaction than some pretty boy who was blessed by genetics and Daddy's bank account? Why should you just meekly roll over, and accept a situation that SUCKS, good buddy, when you can be getting your share, and then some!

Something else to consider: When it comes to sex, women have a massive power advantage. It's relatively easy for even a fat, ugly troll to obtain sexual satisfaction. All she has to do is go to any bar or club, act even mildly flirtatious, and be willing to put out. She's sure to get laid, if not by the best looking guy, then at least by someone. It's much harder for even a decent looking guy to get satisfaction, sexually.

FOR GUYS, GETTING LAID IS A CHORE. FOR WOMEN, GETTING LAID IS A CHOICE.

Never forget this difference in the balance of power between the sexes. The tricks and tactics you'll learn in this book will make you one of those rare guys who is on the choice side of that power equation.

While we are here I better make something else clear. I do NOT believe that sex is the be all and end all of relating to women. Nor do I believe that it is always necessary or even DESIRABLE to use the tactics outlined in this book, (whether fair or unfair) to get a woman to sleep with you. It is certainly possible that the particular woman you fancy may be smart enough and have enough good sense to want you just as you are, without any games or bull**** on her part. She may also be sane and psychologically healthy enough to express that desire naturally, without any hang-ups or guilt games. You might even find - gasp - that the friendship and intimacy you share with a lady are more important to you than sex. When you find a lady like this, cherish her as the rare treasure she is. Hang on tight, and don't let go!

Unfortunately, based on my own experience, and the experience of hundreds of men I've interviewed, most women do not fit into this category. I wish they did - the REALITY is that they do NOT! The reality is that you, as a man, are going to be sexually attracted to many, many women, very few of whom are going to naturally desire you, and who you can also respect, love and admire.

Many of these women are going to be hung-up sexually, depressed, suffer from low self-esteem, eating disorders, alcoholism, etc. Heck, I even briefly dated a woman who turned out to be bulimic, alcoholic, and was also secretly a hooker! Top that for a dating disaster story!

Now, you may decide, the heck with it. If you can't at least like and respect a lady, and if you have to resort to tactics you learned in a book, then it just isn't worth it, and you will skip dealing with such loser females altogether. I certainly can respect that choice; it's the choice I eventually made myself. But only YOU can make that choice. Even if you do, this book will still be of great value to you, because you will learn fantastic techniques for improving your confidence, meeting and picking up women anywhere, any time, and how to quickly recognize and swiftly eliminate all the nutty-losers BEFORE they get to empty your wallet, bend your brain, and kick your heart in. You'll be able to get rid of the dirt, so you can enjoy the diamonds .

Aight, now to drop my .02. i really think AD's way and devlar's way both work IF YOU DO THEM PROPERLY. AD's way takes CONFIDENCE, while Devlar's way, well all it takes is a heart. this is my opinion. i've been a nice guy before, and now i am working towards being an actual MAN WITH BALLS. sorry dawgz but to catch them girls, you gotta be ruthless.

take my friend, for example. he is doing everything he could to meet up with this girl, to talk to her on the phone. i've talked with her twice (three times at the least) and a couple of my friends think that she's starting to have interest in me. just shows the difference between the nice guy way and the AD-way.

this is my opinion. use the AD-method to ATTRACT them *****es. u don't really have to be a jerk; just follow the ways of one. challenge is an important factor. then when you get to know her, SLOWLY peel off the AD-cover (if ur a natural nice guy) and show yourself.

the main thing here folks, is challenge. you gotta have challenge and you gotta stand up for yourself, your beliefs, and your woman. the fact that these guys despise nice guys is that either they're too easy or they just don't have enough confidence. the people who have the confidence are generally the likes of AD and Marauder.

both methods work well; just adapt it to your style of chick-hunting. take bits and pieces from both and add it to your game. this is how Wu-Tang Clan formed the Shaolin Style; GZA took bits and pieces from the art of emceeing and transformed it into Shaolin.

p'z y'all.

 

[Anti-Dump]

Well I am very happy this morning . I came to the Forum and read TommyD's post. The one above where he played pool with the girl.

I have to say I am very satisfied to see someone is getting the point. I just want guys to get the 'feel' of handling the ladies in a way that works.

Even Ko-B 'got it'. He said "after a while you PEEL OFF the AD cover". That's exactly it! Dating is like buying an expensive piece of real estate. You have to know what you are doing. You have to be careful or you might get stuck with swampland.

Hey, TommyD, your post was awesome. I made the exact same changes myself. Flowers and everything. I like the part where you say if a girl asks for your number but won't give you hers, you know what that means.

I am so happy with TommyD's post that I am not going to go after Devlar when he goes after me.

But I must warn you. I am going to start getting TOUGHER on the board. This means Devlar is really going to be busy!

Anti-Dump

 

[Marauder]

Originally posted by Anti-Dump:


Hey, TommyD, your post was awesome. I made the exact same changes myself. Flowers and everything. I like the part where you say if a girl asks for your number but won't give you hers,you know what that means.

I am so happy with TommyD's post that I am not going to go after Devlar when he goes after me.

But I must warn you. I am going to start getting TOUGHER on the board. This means Devlar is really going to be busy!

Anti-Dump

Same here AD, no flowers...no nothing until at least 6-8 dates later...most probably I will just spend some pennies on a single rose to test whether the gal is a keeper or a taker....& well I guess for me, AD & TommyD...when a gal ask for our number or business card without giving theirs.....our alarm bells will just go off....this is what I call a highly developed heart protection system

I don't know much of Devlar & his exploits....but if he is trying to advocate the "nice-guy" approach here in this forum....one thing for sure is he ain't got much mileage to go....

 

[Ko-B]

Originally posted by TommyD:

I've been a really good guy for all my life. I'm still a great guy to go out with. I just won't let a woman or any other person walk over me. I'll call them on their bullsh!t. I won't ever let someone pull a fast one over me. I've been there, done that, and won't let it happen again....

A woman speaks more clearly with her actions than with her words...

As for AD, I agree with much of his advise, but I'd be a fool if I listened to all of his advise....

While saying that, I still do think that AD, Marauder, and myself to name a few, know what it is really like out there....

The dating scene in highschool and college/university is a joke... NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!

Up next is the real gem of TommyD's post dawgz...:

That is why the DJ approach is so valuable to me... I can decipher whether or not a woman is interested enough in me in order for me to invest my time in her. Before if I'd ask a woman out, and she'd give me the run-around, I wouldn't quit. I'd still try to work her. Now I know not to bother. If I 'ask' a woman for her number, and she instead asks me for mine... I know to forget her asap.

that's the whole point. the DJ/AD/Marauder approach lets you know straight up if the woman likes you or not. Whether she's worth spending/wasting your time with.

Look, most nice guys fall for the women they go for too soon. They don't even know the girl, and they're falling heads over heels over this girl they've talked with a couple of times over the phone! Well not all, but quite a lot of these nice guys do; I've seen it happen all the time. To globalize though would be a falsehood.

The DJ/AD/Marauder way also teaches you how to get the woman's interest level even higher (providing that she IS interested). You can gauge it through her body language, see what you have and not have at the current situation, and employ certain tactics to get her sweating you even more.

That's the beauty of the system, folks. To tell you all the truth, you FRONT when you approach these women. You might really not be a jerk, but most likely you gotta act like one to snag the fine ones. hell, that's the way life works dawgz. If any nice guy could come up to a fine-ass woman with flowers and gifts, then get laid just like that, well, I'll be a nice guy for life.

 

[Blue-eyed Devil]

time for my .02.

what forum is this? dj? or kiss ad's a$$ and bash devlar or anyone else that disagrees??

c'mon, this is damn stupid. i don't agree with much of ad's advice but that simply translates into me not utilizing it, i don't take devlar's advice much of the time either (if advice doesn't suit my situation i simply don't take it and see what happens, i've been wrong before but i've also been right).

why does someone have to make a post to give ad props on his experience and advice?? we all know he has been there and done that, but many of the rest of us have as well. his experience does not reflect everyone else's and there are bound to be differences in the approach that one takes, it's that simple.

last time i checked, people were here to ask questions and solve problems, not make a federal f*cking case out of the merits of one person's advice over another. i've posted this sh!t before; but, this board seems to degenerate into a 'who's better?' debate on a regular basis. i guess it's time for me to vanish for a while again.

devil

ps, just for the record, i respect the both of you but let's just move on, this is ridiculous...

 

[Smitty]

Blue Eyed Devil I feel exactly how you do. But instead of vanishing and being immature, just read whatever topics interest you, and don't pay attention to the miscellanous arguing. Because lets face it man, when there is strong pride and opiniated people, the personal arguments are inevitable.