Giovanni Casanova
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2002
- Messages
- 5,550
- Reaction score
- 18
- Age
- 44
- Location
- Hiding in Penkitten's Linen Closet
Princelydeeds, this argument is bound to go on forever and ever. I know, because I once had this exact same debate with another guy from a local message board who thought he was getting screwed over by the courts, and therefore ALL men are screwed over by the courts. He was convinced that the federal, state, and local courts, along with police officers, lawyers, judges, social workers, and mothers were all part of a huge and elaborate consipiracy to screw him out of child support.
My experience has not shown that to be the case.
I'm not going to go point-by-point on this post, but I will highlight a few things. Also, for your information, it would make a lot more sense if you posted a new thread about this instead of venturing further off into Tangentville on the single mother thread.
Men and women would fairly have equal rights as far as that is concerned the day that men carry the children to term and deliver them. When you're talking about terminating a pregancy, you're not just talking about the fetus, you're also talking about the body that houses said fetus. The woman gets to make the decision because it is her body that the decision affects.
I'm familiar with this law. It was put into place because there was a rise in young girls who were in most cases alone and unsupported who were leaving their babies in dumpsters or bathroom stalls. By this time, the guy had long since abandoned her, so that's typically not the issue. The law was put into place to prevent babies from dying in dumpsters, not to be unfair to men or whatever.
It's one of those easy statements to make about my practical experience in the real world.
Let me help you, so you can stop making wild speculations about the circumstances of the people I know.
One of my best friends has full custody of all three of his young sons, aged 7 to 13. He got full custody of one of the kids because his ex-wife had pretty much abandoned the kid with him when they separated. He won full custody of the other two kids because she worked so many long hours that she was never around, and he was the primary caregiver for the kids for most of their lives. Neither of the women had any known drug problems or mental instability. Both women are allowed limited visitation, both women have to pay him child support. He also works 40 hours a week at the same company as I do.
My uncle has full custody of my two cousins. His ex-wife had drug problems many years ago, but she'd been off them for quite some time. The judge granted him full custody because he was the one who cooked for them, cared for them, helped them with their homework, etc. Often she was out with her friends shopping, catching movies, going out to eat, etc. while he was home with the kids (he's a major AFC, by the way). I know probably three other guys who have full custody of their kids for various reasons, but mostly the reasons are because they're the ones who take care of the kids.
Now let me talk about 50/50 custody. Where I live, it's the norm. If a guy and girl go into court fighting for custody, 85% of the time or more, it goes 50/50. Because of the field I wish to go into, I sit in on a lot of court rooms (with the permission of the judges). I sit in on civil court, criminal court, and family court, whenever I can. I've probably seen 35-40 or so custody trials that I wasn't directly involved in, by three different family court judges. I didn't think to keep score, but it was almost always 50/50. There were a couple of cases where the girl got full custody because she was able to show police reports, court documents and pictures of how he had brutally beaten the sh*t out of her, but I never saw a girl walk into court and just get full custody handed to her because she's a woman.
A cousin of mine several years ago decided to leave her live-in boyfriend and told him that she was going to try to get full custody of their daughter because of his abusive nature. He responded by clubbing her over the head, stuffing her in the trunk, grabbing their daughter and driving from Michigan to Kentucky, where his family lived. There, he held her captive, tied to a chair, for three days, until she was finally able to undo the ropes, climb through a window, and get help from a passing motorist. He was able to plead his assault and kidnapping charges down to misdemeanors and spent only a little time in jail. Of course, it eventually went to court for custody proceedings. The story of the kidnapping was told to the judge, but in the end the judge decided 50/50 custody was the way to go.
About a year ago, when my aunt and my cousin went over to his house to pick up her daughter, my cousin got out of the car to put her daughter in her car seat (she was 3 or 4 at the time). As she turned to get into the car, he pulled a knife on her and attacked. My cousin tried to jump into the car, and my aunt took off, but he was still holding onto the door frame, blindly stabbing at my cousin. He stabbed her nine times, in the chest, arms, and legs. My aunt eventually panicked, and ran the passenger side of the car into a tree, hard. They then drove off to get the police and tell them that he was dead. When the police got to the scene, though, they found a lot of blood but they didn't find him. After several hours of searching, they finally found him back near his house with a self-inflicted bullet to the head. My cousin spent several weeks in the hospital, but recovered. THAT'S what she had to go through to get full custody of her daughter. This was all over the news in their hometown. To me, that doesn't sound very fair.
To the issue of child support, Michigan has a specific formula it uses to determine child support. It is a very complex formula, they take into consideration the amount of time that a father has the kid and the amount of time the mother has the kid. Then, they also take into consideration the weekly gross pay of the father, and the weekly gross pay of the mother. These factors and others are all put together to come up with a number. For example (and I'm making the numbers up here), if a mother makes 400 a week gross and the father makes 400 a week gross, but the mother has full custody and the father has the kid two days a week, the father might have to pay $60 a week in child support. But if there is a 50/50 arrangement, then nobody pays a dime in child support if they make the same gross pay weekly.
A friend of mine has a job that pays him $8 an hour and his ex makes $7 an hour. They have 50/50 custody, and his child support is exactly $1.50 a week, plus a $3 monthly service charge. So, $9 a month. Sally Struthers asks for more than that to help some kid over in Africa that you don't even know, and this is YOUR KID. I don't think it's unreasonable.
My experience has not shown that to be the case.
I'm not going to go point-by-point on this post, but I will highlight a few things. Also, for your information, it would make a lot more sense if you posted a new thread about this instead of venturing further off into Tangentville on the single mother thread.
Men and women would fairly have equal rights as far as that is concerned the day that men carry the children to term and deliver them. When you're talking about terminating a pregancy, you're not just talking about the fetus, you're also talking about the body that houses said fetus. The woman gets to make the decision because it is her body that the decision affects.
I'm familiar with this law. It was put into place because there was a rise in young girls who were in most cases alone and unsupported who were leaving their babies in dumpsters or bathroom stalls. By this time, the guy had long since abandoned her, so that's typically not the issue. The law was put into place to prevent babies from dying in dumpsters, not to be unfair to men or whatever.
It's one of those easy statements to make about my practical experience in the real world.
Let me help you, so you can stop making wild speculations about the circumstances of the people I know.
One of my best friends has full custody of all three of his young sons, aged 7 to 13. He got full custody of one of the kids because his ex-wife had pretty much abandoned the kid with him when they separated. He won full custody of the other two kids because she worked so many long hours that she was never around, and he was the primary caregiver for the kids for most of their lives. Neither of the women had any known drug problems or mental instability. Both women are allowed limited visitation, both women have to pay him child support. He also works 40 hours a week at the same company as I do.
My uncle has full custody of my two cousins. His ex-wife had drug problems many years ago, but she'd been off them for quite some time. The judge granted him full custody because he was the one who cooked for them, cared for them, helped them with their homework, etc. Often she was out with her friends shopping, catching movies, going out to eat, etc. while he was home with the kids (he's a major AFC, by the way). I know probably three other guys who have full custody of their kids for various reasons, but mostly the reasons are because they're the ones who take care of the kids.
Now let me talk about 50/50 custody. Where I live, it's the norm. If a guy and girl go into court fighting for custody, 85% of the time or more, it goes 50/50. Because of the field I wish to go into, I sit in on a lot of court rooms (with the permission of the judges). I sit in on civil court, criminal court, and family court, whenever I can. I've probably seen 35-40 or so custody trials that I wasn't directly involved in, by three different family court judges. I didn't think to keep score, but it was almost always 50/50. There were a couple of cases where the girl got full custody because she was able to show police reports, court documents and pictures of how he had brutally beaten the sh*t out of her, but I never saw a girl walk into court and just get full custody handed to her because she's a woman.
A cousin of mine several years ago decided to leave her live-in boyfriend and told him that she was going to try to get full custody of their daughter because of his abusive nature. He responded by clubbing her over the head, stuffing her in the trunk, grabbing their daughter and driving from Michigan to Kentucky, where his family lived. There, he held her captive, tied to a chair, for three days, until she was finally able to undo the ropes, climb through a window, and get help from a passing motorist. He was able to plead his assault and kidnapping charges down to misdemeanors and spent only a little time in jail. Of course, it eventually went to court for custody proceedings. The story of the kidnapping was told to the judge, but in the end the judge decided 50/50 custody was the way to go.
About a year ago, when my aunt and my cousin went over to his house to pick up her daughter, my cousin got out of the car to put her daughter in her car seat (she was 3 or 4 at the time). As she turned to get into the car, he pulled a knife on her and attacked. My cousin tried to jump into the car, and my aunt took off, but he was still holding onto the door frame, blindly stabbing at my cousin. He stabbed her nine times, in the chest, arms, and legs. My aunt eventually panicked, and ran the passenger side of the car into a tree, hard. They then drove off to get the police and tell them that he was dead. When the police got to the scene, though, they found a lot of blood but they didn't find him. After several hours of searching, they finally found him back near his house with a self-inflicted bullet to the head. My cousin spent several weeks in the hospital, but recovered. THAT'S what she had to go through to get full custody of her daughter. This was all over the news in their hometown. To me, that doesn't sound very fair.
To the issue of child support, Michigan has a specific formula it uses to determine child support. It is a very complex formula, they take into consideration the amount of time that a father has the kid and the amount of time the mother has the kid. Then, they also take into consideration the weekly gross pay of the father, and the weekly gross pay of the mother. These factors and others are all put together to come up with a number. For example (and I'm making the numbers up here), if a mother makes 400 a week gross and the father makes 400 a week gross, but the mother has full custody and the father has the kid two days a week, the father might have to pay $60 a week in child support. But if there is a 50/50 arrangement, then nobody pays a dime in child support if they make the same gross pay weekly.
A friend of mine has a job that pays him $8 an hour and his ex makes $7 an hour. They have 50/50 custody, and his child support is exactly $1.50 a week, plus a $3 monthly service charge. So, $9 a month. Sally Struthers asks for more than that to help some kid over in Africa that you don't even know, and this is YOUR KID. I don't think it's unreasonable.
