women with kids?

chris martin

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Yes thats right women with kids? what do you's think?

Sorry if you think this post is short and sweet. But i wanted to be direct & to the point. This is only a topic for discussion...
 

Latinoman

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By Rollo Tomassi:

I realize I'm invoking the wrath of the Cougar here, but,..

No single mommies, no how, no way, end of story.

Didn't have time to elaborate last night on the psycho-evolutionary basis for women seeking out potential father surrogates so I'll hit you with it now.??Allow me to put forth as objective a retort as I can here.

I've aleady detailed in many prior posts that mate selection is a psycho-biological function that our millenias of evolution has hardwired into both sexes. So internalized and socialized is this process into our collective psyches that we rarely recognize that we're subject to these motivators even when we continually repeat the same behaviors manifested by them. So saying that we're not subject to conditions we're not, or are only vaguely aware of is a bit naive.

It's simple deductive logic to follow that for a species to survive it must provide it''s offspring with the best possible conditions to ensure it's survival - either that or to reproduce in such quantity that it ensures survival. The obvious application of this for women is sharing parental investment with the best possible mate her own genetics allow her to attract and who can provide long term security for her and their potential offspring. Thus women are the filters of their own reproduction where as men's reproductive methodology is to scatter as much of his genetic material as humanly possible to the widest available quantity of fertile females. He of course has his own criteria for mating selection and determining the best genetic hosts for his reproduction (she's gotta be hot), but this criteria is certainly less discriminating than that for women (i.e. no ones ugly after 2am). This is evidenced in our own hormonal biology; men posess 17 times the amount of testosterone women do and women produce substantially more estrogen and oxytocin than men.

That stated, both of these methodologies conflict in practice. For a woman to best ensure the survival of her young a man must necessarily abandon his method of reproduction. This then sets an imperative for him to pair with a woman who will satisfy his methodology. A male must sacrifice his reproduction schedule to satisfy that of the woman he pairs with. With so much genetic potential at stake on his part of the risk, he want's not only to ensure that she is the best possible candidate for breeding with, but also to know that his progeny will benefit form both parents involvement.

One interesting outcome of this psycho-biological dynamic is men's ability to spot their own children in a crowd of other children more quickly and with greater accuity than even their mothers. Studies have shown that men have the ability to more quickly and accurately identify their own children in a room full of kids dressed in the same uniforms than the mothers of the child. Again, this stresses the subconscious importance of this genetic trade off.

Social Convention

To counter this subconscious dynamic to their own genetic advantage women initiate social conventions and psychological schemas to better facilitate their own breeding methodologies. This is why women always have the "perogative to change her mind" and the most fickle of behaviors become socially excusable, while men's behavior is constrained to a higher standard to "do the right thing" which is invarably to the advantage of a woman. This is why guys who are 'Players', and fathers who abandon mothers and children to pursue their innate reproduction method are villains, and fathers who selflessly sacrifice themselves financially, emotionally and life decision-wise are considered heroes for complying with women's genetic imperatives.

This is also the root motivation for female-specific social dynamics such as LJBF rejections, women's propensity for victimhood (as they've learned that this engenders 'savior' mental schemas for men's breeding schedules) and even marriage itself.

Good Dads vs Good Genes

The two greatest difficulties for women to overcome in their own methodology is that they are only at a sexually viable peak for a short window of time (generally their 20s) and the fact that the qualities that make a good long term partner (the Good Dad) and the qualities that make for good breeding stock (Good Genes) rarely manifest themselves in the same male. Provisioning and security potential are fantastic motivators for pairing with a Good Dad, but the same characteristics that make him such are generally a disadvantage when compared with the man who better exemplifies genetic, physical attraction and the risk taking qualities that would imbue her child with a better capacity to adapt to it's environment (i.e stronger, faster, more attractive than others to ensure the passing of her own genetic material to future generations). This is the Jerk vs. Nice Guy paradox writ large on an evolutionary scale.

Men and women innately (though unconsciously) understand this dynamic, so in order for a woman to have the best that the Good Dad has to offer while taking advantage of the best that the Good Genes man has, she must invent and constantly modify social conventions to keep the advantage in her biological favor.

Reproductive Schedules

This paradox then necessitates that women (and by defalut men) must subscribe to short term and long term schdules of mating. Short term schedules facilitate breeding with the Good Genes male, while long term breeding is reserved the Good Dad male. This convention and the psycho-social schemas that accompany it are precisely why women will marry the Nice Guy, stable, loyal, (preferably) doctor and still fvck the pool boy or the cute surfer she met on spring break. In our genetic past a male with good genes implied an ability to be a good provider, but modern convention has thwarted this so new social and mental schemas had to be developed for women.

Cheating

For this dynamic and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to 'cheat'. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively.

In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in an extramarital or pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the cheating wife or girlfriend). That's not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action itself is a method for securing better genetic stock than the committed male provider is capable of supplying.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. I fervently believe that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence.??For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival with the best provisioning partner, this is an evolutionary jackpot.

The Cuckold

On some level of consciousness, men innately sense something is wrong with this situation, though they may not be able to place why they feel it or misunderstand it in the confusion of women's justifications for it. Or they become frustrated by the social pressures to 'do the right thing' and are shamed into martyrdom/savior-hood and committed by feigned responsibility to these conventions. Nevertheless, some see it well enough to stear clear of single mothers, etiher by prior experience or observing other male cuckolds saddled with the responsibility of raising and providing for - no matter how involved or uninvolved - another man's successful reproduction efforts with this woman.

The man in this position is (or at the very least interpreted as) a Cuckold. He will never enjoy the same benefits as his mates short term partner(s) to the same degree, in the way of sexual desire or immediacy of it, while at the same time enduring the social pressures of having to provide for this Good Genes father's progeny. It could be argued that he may contibute minimally to their wellfare, but on some level, whether emotional, physical, financial or educational he will contribute some effort for another man's genetic material in exchange for limited form of sexuality/intimacy from the mother. To some degree, (even if only by his presence) he is sharing the parental investment that should be borne by the short term partner. If nothing else, he contibutes the time and effort to her he could be better invested in finding a sexual partner with which he could pursue his own genetic imperative by his own methodology. It is simply not worth his effort to couple with a single mother when compared to a woman without children.

However, needless to say, there is no shortage of men sexually deprived enough to 'see past' the long term disadvantages, and not only rewarding, but reinforcing a single mother's bad decisions with regard to her breeding selections and schedules in exchange for short term sexual gratification. It's important to bear in mind that in this age women are ultimately, soley responsible for the men they choose to mate with (baring rape of course) AND giving birth to their children. Men do bear responsibility for their actions no doubt, but it is ultimately the decision of the female and her judgement that decides her and her children's fate.
 

Latinoman

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wayword said:
Word, don't be a cuckold and raise some other dude's sperm.

Fvcking is fine, MAYBE even dating. Committed LTR or marriage tho? Hell no.
Some exception to rules.

You see? My (and that of many) definition of a "single mother" is that of a woman that had children out of wedlock.

If the woman was married and her husband died or after a great marriage got divorced...then that's a different story (although, I still avoid any woman with small children). That doesn't make that woman a "single mother", it makes her "divorced" or "widow".

I still would avoid women with kids. If she was divorced...she might have some issues. If she is a widow, she might still have some emotional issues. And read Rollo's post (see quote above) if you want to know about "single mothers".
 

SELF-MASTERY

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I'm dating, banging, and DARE I say loving a single mother...

It's okay, but I make sure that I don't have to fk around with the kid.
 

grinder

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I wish sombody could quote some numbers on women aged 25 to 45 that have kids.

In my limited experience, there are very few that do not have kids. That rules out so many if you decide to "not to go there". Obviously, this complicates the relationship much if you do "go there".

The problem is not the kids, its the mom's single-minded desire to "find a new daddy" for their kids.
 
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I pretty much date women with kids exclusively, though there are exceptions. Most of this is because I'm a single father. Parents are just on a different wavelength, that's just how it is. Pretty much none of what is being said here is true for the most part. mothers are like any other women. You have you';re psychos, the great ones, and everything in between.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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grinder said:
I wish sombody could quote some numbers on women aged 25 to 45 that have kids.

In my limited experience, there are very few that do not have kids. That rules out so many if you decide to "not to go there". Obviously, this complicates the relationship much if you do "go there".

The problem is not the kids, its the mom's single-minded desire to "find a new daddy" for their kids.
And when you add race (blk) those numbers JUMP.
 

Victory Unlimited

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Yo Troops!


I agree with Grinder, Red Headed Step Child, and Self-Mastery. I date black women exclusively, because that's what I prefer. And I'm no kid. I just recently started my 4th decade of life down here on God's green earth.

I'm blessed by good genes and by keeping in great shape to not look like what the typical guy my age is supposed to look like. And as a result, I've been dating babes this year from 19 to 40. And the one thing I've found is that MOST of our more attractive black women here in Memphis seem to have at least ONE child.

I would say that my unscientific, personal observation is that about only 2 out of 10 black women are childless (around here at least). That makes my search for a childless chick hella harder right from the get-go.

And it's been kinda depressing, troops. Because yes, there's the POTENTIAL for a lot of BABY DADDY DRAMA with a babe with kids. But the funny thing is...most babes that i've met WITHOUT kids are no bargain either.

BRIEF RUNDOWN:

I met three attractive babes recently. One was a 24 year old, childless theater actress. The other is a 35 year old, childless customs broker babe. And the last one is a 38 year old, tasty chocolate, single mother of 2 who MIGHT just be the most overall physically atrractive woman i've ever dated!

Their Upsides and Downsides:

ACTRESS BABE-

Upside: Monster Hooters, intuitive, artistic, sexually freaky.

Downside: sexually confused (doesn't know if she wants to be celibate or be a freak. She blames it on her "latest" spiritual awakening. But I think the truth is that she's just not into me enough because i'm not "her type"). Flakey as hell. Attention wh0re. Major daddy issues. Former Rape victim (Not her daddy, but some guy a few years ago---so she says. I don't believe this selfish biitch for a moment though.lol)

CUSTOMS BABE-

Upside: No kids, tight proportionate body, she'll age well. Independent self-starter. Makes herself available to me.

Downside: Selfish sometimes. But most disturbing is that she's SEXUALLY selfish and a BORDERLINE prude. Example- I went down on her and she loved it, but when I positioned myself for her to reciprocate she declined, saying "I have to work myself up to doing that". LOL

Yeah guys, forget about "69". Customs Babe is a "68 and I'll OWE you one type chick." lol

Also, subsequent convos with her has reinforced that she remains standoff-ish about more uninhibited forms of sex. And this is a MAJOR turnoff to me.

CHOCOLATE MOTHER BABE-

Upside: Fine as HELL. Soft spoken. More feminine. Nurturing. Loves to cook and mentioned she might want to cook something for MY bachelor Ass one day. Low maintenance. Likes to spend time with me @ my house watching videos. Did I already say "Fine as HELL?"

Downside: She has 2 kids. (She's often distracted with them when i'm trying to mack her on the phone. She also has to transport them sometimes on the weekend---which cuts some of our plans short.) Bad experiences with last child's father, so there COULD be some emotional baggage on the way (hope it gets LOST @ THE AIRPORT.lol) No sex yet because she's a "date you and get to know you first" kind of babe. But I think she may have some real FREAKY potential, though.



BOTTOM LINE-

Troops, I'm not an "old man" by any means. I know I still have many options, and I contnue to explore them. But I also look at the REALITY of the kinds of women I'm meeting.

Very few of the women I've interacted with (those WITH kids, ANd those WITHOUT), have ENOUGH of the qualities I'm looking for that would make me want to add them more permanently to my life.

I'm not one to settle,and never have been. I'm a picky motherfvcker! lol

But I am beginning to wonder if it would be such a TERRIBLE thing to actually seriously consider becoming involved with a woman with kids.

Quite frankly, my age (again, i'm not a 20 year old whose just BEGINNING to play the field), my preferences, my maturity level (gameplaying biitches of ANY age bore me), and the reality of the dating pool of single, black women is causing me to take a hard, realistic look at my options right now.


What are y'all's thoughts?






Peace...one day.
 
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wayword

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Victory Unlimited said:
MOST of our more attractive black women here in Memphis seem to have at least ONE child.

I would say that my unscientific, personal observation is that about only 2 out of 10 black women are childless (around here at least). That makes my search for a childless chick hella harder right from the get-go.
Blacks do reproduce the earliest of any race, and I know very few Black dudes over 25 without at least one kid somewhere...
Among black fathers, 25 percent fathered their first child as a teenager, compared with 19 percent of Hispanic fathers and 11 percent of white fathers.
2/3 of Black babies are also now born to single mamas...

Which means that Black dads are doing a very poor job of raising their kids, but doing a greeeat job spreading their genes around in the Darwinian endgame! :D
 

wayword

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realsmoothie said:
How is race a factor in this discussion?
Black women are statistically more likely to have kids earlier than other race women. Therefore, if you prefer Black women, this topic would likely be of more concern to you.
 

SELF-MASTERY

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Why does everyone get touchy when race is brought up. I had a thread a few weeks ago about how I have observed that black couples are less likey to display affection in public, and everyone was all over me. Some guy suggested that it's my area, social filter, and lack of culture that influenced my observation, but here I am a guy that has lived in 5 countries and has observed all kinds of people. Knowing your audience is a major part of success in seduction, and all women are not the same. Social standards aren't even the same from one region to another, so why should we expect race/ culture (not the same thing) to be any different?

So, yes black women are more likely to be single mothers. Play with them, but protect yourself.
 

OrioleMagic

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I am really against dating women with kids, but will consider a woman who is "superior" in all other areas and has one kid. I have an adopted sister, so I guess my dad raised another man's kid. I am actually closer to my adopted sister than I am to my real sister. A prime criteria for me is how much control a woman has over her kids. If they are being loud and disrespectful to her, there is no way in H**L I will get involved with her. She also needs to get child support from the father or have no contact with the father. I'm not interested in any "Baby Daddy Drama"
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

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logicallefty

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There is nothing wrong with dating a woman w/ kids in my opinion. The secret is knowing what you are getting into clearly before you get too deep. Example, is the real dad in the picture and to what extent? Does the woman want you to take a fatherly role to the kids, or just a friend role? Is dad supposed to take them every other weekend but you've been dating her 6 weeks and haven't seen him take them once yet? Now may be the time to take that into consideration before the relationship gets anymore serious, because you (and her) deserve your time without them.

On the other hand, great fun can be had when dating a woman with kids and doing stuff with them. And women are attracted to men who like and are good with kids. Shoot, that may be why her ex is the ex. Use that to your advantage...

Just know what you are getting into, that's the bottom line. Any guy who won't even give a woman a small chance JUST because of the kids is an a** in my opinion. Most guys like this are younger. Wait until you hit your late 20s, early 30s. If you are that age, single, wont except a woman with kids, you are either going to have to search 10x as hard to find "her" or prepare to live the rest of your life alone, it gets harder as you get older. I aint even that old (32), but I've seen it already. And my single buddies who are 35, 38, 45, tell me it only gets worse..
 

Jackman

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Well, I've found that a lot of women around my age (early 30's) that have no kids often buy dogs to substitute because they still have this prince charming fantasy and don't know why they're still single, often blaming men for not meeting their rediculous expectations. Funny, because sometimes dating these types of women is like dating a child. Sometimes I need a break from that.

With single mothers, sometimes I actually deal with less BS and more realistic attitudes, ironically. Or at least it's been that way so far for me. They know how to back off and be less intrusive about my personal life and finances. But I'm yet to meet a very down to earth hottie without kids who didn't want to know how much I make or what drive, even though I'm not ashamed to answer either question.

I will say, though, that I won't date a woman with more than 1 child. I don't know why exactly, but it just seems too much for me. I also agree that you have to know what you're getting into first.

As far as marriage with one? Pretty slim chance that'll happen. I meet a lot that actually don't want serious relationships.
 

d9930380

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A few things.

Black men sleep around more, cheat more, are interested in JUST sex, get girls pregnant (they don't like to use rubbers) and then run out on them. They're also MUCH more likely to be bi-sexual keeping it on the "Down Low". They also have a greater likelyhood of AIDs etc for all the above reasons.

They are the typical ALPHA/PRIMAL MAN - That's the reason why SOOO many women especially young girls find them irresistable. Hell even the big **** fits into this steriotype.

Not all - but the statistics don't lie. It's also the reason why alot of people think there is such problems in black areas, no father figure for the kids and guys not living up to their responsibilities.

Also I don't give a **** about you PC guys out there. I have alot of friends who are black - I see it first hand. They would even tell you the same - except the gay thing, that's a touchy subject.

Also the above poster's comments on single moms, it's ALL totally right. Any guy who hooks up with a single mum and marries her. Just remember your getting ****ed up the ass by evolution.

But I also love the guys that say, "Sex" yes, "relationship" yes, marriage "no". Most single moms are desperate to get married to a NICE GUY, you shouldn't **** them around. Have SOME decency. lol
 

Greece2000

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3 days ago my brother got hit with 676.00 monthly along with benifits for 2 children that aren't his...guess what and why? Due to cohabitiation with a single mother who left my brothers place to shack up with her ex husband who would beat her and sell marijuana out of his house. He went before a judge regarding this and the judge said, "It is for the welfare of the children and they have come to see you as the father so you must take responsibilty" - I remeber before hand I pleaded with my brother to leave this dumbass woman alone who had kids but all he could tell me was "Oh she is different and she is a hard working mom".

Now my brother who is 30. Spends quite a bit of his salary supporting to kids that aren't his and do not live with him...one of the kids even has Cerebral Palsy which requires the child to be in and out of the hospital. He now sleeps on a couch he rents from a house with 4 people. He has no money and his benifits are always getting hit for this and that...He calls me CRYING b/c he regrets not listening to me regarding this situation.

I don't care how fine she looks or how she claims she has it together ....she doesn't. B/C if she did she wouldn't have had a kid in the first place. Women can make the choice to abort when they are pregnant but most and all are so dumb they want to keep it like it's a gift even when they know they cannot afford it.

To all the Single Mothers...go **** yourselves. You ruined my brother's life but you won't ruin mine.

Guys...leave Single Mothers alone. Guys...leave Single Mothers alone. Guys...leave Single Mothers alone. Guys...leave Single Mothers alone. Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.Guys...leave Single Mothers alone.
 

Greece2000

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And to the reply....yes..I am black...my brother is black...do we spread AIDS? no...we aren't bisexual. I don't have any children..neither does my brother..I even had a vasectomy...

India and China have HIGH rates of AIDS...do they have high African American populations? NO.

The black people you are reffering to are not all black people. I highly DOUBT you even have black friends b/c if you did you wouldn't bring that bullcrap up.

Why oh WHY do we always bring race into this when it isn't even apart of the equation.

Single mothers of all races and backgrounds ARE BAD.
 
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