Women who claim they are sweet people

[Alexander the Great]

I can't believe this is only the second thread I've started...


Anyway, women who call themselves sweet people.

I've met quite a few women in my life who claimed to be sweet people. Sweet, as in nice, gentle, kind.

Yet everytime, I've also found out these women really to be cold, calculative and not very kind at all. Especially when they were faced with something they didn't know how to deal with in an, in my opinion, adult fashion. Or they were genuine nutcases with a lack of self-esteem or a personality disorder, and definately in need of therapy regardless of what ailed them.

Now, I've been called sweet, nice, kind, a great guy, by people on numerous occasions in my life. Yet, I don't think of myself in that way at all, and I've certainly never felt the need to "qualify" myself to people as such. Ever.

What makes a woman classify herself as sweet? Is it an unconscious compensation to cover for her bad side? A disclaimer or an excuse for sub-par behaviour? That's certainly how I've experienced it.

One example that stands out for me is a woman I was friends with once. We had had some misgivings about a situation between us. I tried to talk about it with her, to resolve it and come to an understanding about it. Apparently she felt uncomfortable with that, and she acted really stand-offish and unwilling. Being friends and believing in working things out, I didn't understand this so I wrote her a letter in which I confronted her with my confusion on her behaviour.

What I got back was a lot of viscious written anger. Her excuse for her behaviour: it was my fault. I had pushed too much. I had acted in a way she felt uncomfortable with. In her reply she claimed herself to be generally a nice and sweet person. She even claimed that others thought of her that way. However, I had pushed her past that boundary and she felt justified in her behaviour. She felt justified, while all I ever did "wrong" to her was try and talk to her about something she apparently felt uncomfortable with.

Just the very fact that she felt it necessary to loudly proclaim what other people felt about her is (in hindsight) one big fat red flag to me. Why would someone need to validate themselves through others? Or disclaim their behaviour as being pushed out of their usual role of being "sweet"?

While this is but one example, agreeably obvious and extreme, I've experienced it several times: women claiming themselves to be sweet, who really showed themselves to be low-class when push came to shove. I'm embarrassed to say this includes my very own mother. Incidently, the woman from the example and my mother are both low self-esteem women and definately in need of some sort of therapy.

So, is claiming yourself to be nice, and volunteering that "information" as well, nothing more than a reversed b*tch shield? "I'm nice until you do something I don't like? Then I really show my true colors and true value!"

Some value.

Is it a hallmark of a low self-esteem person? Or the hallmark of a general b*tch? Or a combo? Or something else as well?

Is someone who claims him- or herself to be "sweet", someone to watch with suspiscion? I think so. I would even include men into the equation. Most notably certain gay men. You know, the b*tchy ones with a big mouth about how nice they are, yet they exercise no restraint in their venting of their opinion of things and people. Maybe it is even those "men" who show us something about female behaviour. Extreme behaviour perhaps, like borderliners do, but nonetheless.

Claimed sweetness, isn't it really a cover? Something fake? Isn't it some form of manipulation? Apparently innocent but still... manipulative.

The reason I'm posting this is because I'm back into the dating scene again after a little break, and I just got in touch with someone via an online dating service. We're in the introductory phase, a few short messages were exchanged. In her last message, she called herself a "sweet" person (as in nice, kind, gentle). Despite the fact that she appears quite healthy personality-wise, career-wise (of course one can't really tell from an online profile and a few messages), my gut alert immediately went off and I felt the urge not to proceed any further.

I'm not asking you for advice on what to do. I already know what to do. My gut is very clear about that and experience has taught me to trust my gut, even when my mind says "why not see where it goes?" Sure, I may be making a big deal out of an innocent remark. Still, experience has taught me that such remarks are often disclaimers for people to behave in a disrespectful fashion towards you when things don't go their way.

I don't want a woman who thinks of herself as sweet. I want her to be sweet. To me it seems logical that, a woman who is nice, kind and gentle doesn't even stop to consider wether she is sweet or not. She just is. My personal recommendation is to be very wary of women, people, who claim they are "sweet". It's a disclaimer for them to be a b*tch at will.

So, I'm just curious after your experiences with women who claim themselves to be sweet people and who volunteer such information, either out of nowhere or for a particular reason.

What are your experiences? What's your opinion, what are your feelings, about such proclaimed "sweetness"? And do you think that people who are really sweet have ever a need to advertise this fact?

 

[Mr. Me]

Sounds like it's the Martyr Complex. Whenever you hear someone, of either gender, say anything like:

"I'm the most patient [kindest, loving, name a positive character trait] person in the world."

"I'm always very sweet, kind, considerate"

"I always give and give"

Obviously, no one can be THE most patient or sweetest person in the entire world or ALWAYS nice, so what makes them claim these exaggerations about themselves?

These people portray themselves as giving, supportive, nurturing, you name it, but the fact is it's a mask to hide their need. There are strings attached. They act sweet and kind in order specifically to receive love back. The second it isn't given back (or given in the way they want it to be given), their true nature surfaces: their underlying hurt and anger. And OF COURSE it can only be your fault, because they see it as coming from YOUR behavior (since you didn't respond in the way you should, or so they think), they just don't see their own hand in this, that it's all about their take on your behavior.

Yes, you're correct. It's based in low self esteem and run when you hear them mention it.

Here's a decent article on the Complex: http://www.thoughtclusters.com/2007/06/martyr-complex.html

 

[Luthor Rex]

Dealing with too many women like that made me nearly hate all women.

The "Good Child" Syndrome

Al Siebert, PhD

A major barrier to developing strong resiliency skills comes from being trained to be a "good boy" or a "good girl." The basis for most "good child" messages comes from what parents do not want their children to become.

...

Children hear these statements about what a "good" boy or girl shouldn't do, and learn that it is extremely important to cooperate in trying to be good and not to be bad. A powerful instruction that makes them cautious and vulnerable all their lives is the statement "What will others think?"

In some cases this childhood personality theory that people are either "good" or "bad" continues into adult life. At the age of 43 the person still thinks and acts like the child they were conditioned to be at age 5.

In their relationships they give many clues about how good they are. Typical actions of a "good" child trying to function in an adult body include:

* smile when upset.
* rarely let you know they are angry at you.
* seldom make selfish requests.
* point out your faults, saying "I'm only telling you for your own good."
* give "should" instructions to others.
* get upset with you and then say "You really hurt me."
* smile and compliment people to their faces but say critical things behind their backs.
* alert and warn others about "bad" people.
* cannot accept compliments easily or agree they are good at something.
* when confronted about something hurtful they said, they emphasize their good intentions by saying, "But I meant well."
* fear being regarded as hurtful, tough, selfish, insensitive, or uncaring.
* The "good child" will not express criticism directly. In group meetings they will smile and agree with the manager. When asked to express a contrary opinion, they are unable to do so. After the meeting is over, however, they may become very critical.

Being a pleasant, helpful, good person to have around is a commendable way to live. At the extreme, however, "good children" in an adult world can drain energy out of others and be difficult to live and work with in the following ways:

* They do not give you useful feedback. Even when you ask them to express their feelings directly to you instead of talking behind your back, they won't. While it may be obvious to you that they feel angry or upset, they often cannot admit that they are. If they do admit to being upset, they have a victim reaction. They blame you for causing them to have the unhappy feelings they experience. If you were supposed to telephone and did not, you may be told, "You really hurt me when you didn't call."

* They are self-deceptive. They believe their efforts to help others are completely unselfish. For example, when a woman asked me for advice on how to get her husband to stop being so negative, I asked, "Why are you working so hard to change him?"

"It's for his own good," she said. "He would be so much happier."

The nature of the "good" person's self-deception is such that they can act in ways harmful to you, while truly believing they are doing so for your own good. The combination of sweetness in your presence, destructive criticism behind your back, and a belief that their actions are for your own good is behind the statement, "With friends like these, who needs enemies?"

* Their efforts to make others have only good feelings about them, often cause the opposite reaction to occur—such as when they try to force you to eat some candy or cake. Then, when they sense some irritation or dislike, they work even harder to get the reassurances from others that they need. Their efforts then cause stronger negative reactions, which leads to them trying harder—and so on. Instead of doing something different when their actions do not work, they do more of what elicited the negative reaction in the first place. The pity of it all is that they have not learned they would be more likable if they stopped trying so hard to be liked.

* There is a hidden threat under their efforts to make you see them as "good." If you react negatively to their ways of trying to control what others think and feel about them, they may decide you are a "bad" person and punish you. The dynamic is this: Victims need victimizers; victimizers deserve to be punished. This is why you run the risk of becoming a target for their destructive gossip and emotional abuse if you do not let them coerce you into expressing only those feelings for them that they need to hear.

* They avoid empathy. They become slippery when you try to discuss an upsetting incident with them. In their way of thinking, some things they say don't count. They may send you reeling with a sudden accusation. After thinking about the incident you see how much they misunderstood. You may bring up the incident, ready to discuss it, but they say "I don't remember saying that" or they give themselves a quick excuse. They judge themselves by their intentions, not by how they affect others.

* They have mastered the art of being emotionally fragile. No matter how carefully you try to find a way to get them to listen, have empathy, or observe themselves, they will find a way to become upset. Then they try to make you feel guilty for upsetting them.

* In work settings this individual is very difficult to give a performance evaluation to. Almost any effort to talk about doing better work, or getting along better with others, or being more direct in making requests triggers a defensive reaction. A "good" person may say, "Why are you picking on me? I'm not a bad person. Why don't you criticize Sheila? She's worse than I am." Their reaction to your effort to make things better is to make you feel guilty for bringing up the subject of how they might improve.

* The "good person" cannot distinguish between constructive and destructive criticism. They react to unpleasant feedback as though it is destructive and has a harmful intent. They believe that if you really care for them you will not confront them about their upsetting actions. That is much different from a person with a survivor style who believes that if you care for them you will confront them about their upsetting actions. The consequence is that they learn very little from experience. That is why a "good" person remains at the emotional level of a child throughout life.

* They feel unloved and unappreciated. Even though you give them lots of love and attention, they experience very little. They are like a person standing under a waterfall yelling "I am thirsty!" Some typical statements: "After all I've done for them..." and "They'll feel sorry when I'm gone."

* They are self-made martyrs. First they blame you for their suffering, then they forgive you for all the hurt and pain you have caused them. As incredible as it may seem, the "good child" feels emotionally and morally superior to you.

* Confronting them makes things worse. If you get fed up and confront them about their victim style they will have a victim reaction much worse than you've seen before. They cannot handle a confrontation about what they do because the victim style is the best that they can manage. As with any child, they have almost no capacity for self-observation or for conscious choices about thinking, feeling, or acting in different ways.

Thus it is that the "good child" syndrome undercuts survivor resiliency. There is a serious flaw in their training. A person raised to be a good child is emotionally handicapped outside the structured environment they were raised in. Such a person does not learn from experience, suppresses paradoxical traits, avoids empathy, and has a desynergistic affect on others. Although they mean well, this not a person you want to have in charge of something important.

from: http://www.resiliencycenter.com/articles/goodchildsyndrome.shtml

 

[STR8UP]

When I was more involved in property management, one of the things that would get someone denied almost every time was when they tried to sell themselves.

"I'm a clean person"

"I'm quiet"

"I don't use drugs" (my favorite)

Why on earth would they feel the need to tell me these things?

I found out over the years that there is a reason why people do this, and it's a HUGE red flag. People who are genuinely [insert good quality here] don't feel the need to push it on people.

She felt justified, while all I ever did "wrong" to her was try and talk to her about something she apparently felt uncomfortable with.

You can't get a point across to a woman with words. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but trying to "reason" with a woman will get you nowhere. You will be almost always be met with anger, denial, and hostility. She will blame everyone but herself for anything and everything.

 

[DJDamage]

That reminds me of the joke about personal ads of women's and their real meaning:

40-ish.................. 48
Adventurer.............. Has had more partners than you ever will
Athletic................ Flat-chested
Average looking......... Ugly
Beautiful............... Pathological liar
Contagious Smile........ Bring your penicillin
Educated................ College dropout
Emotionally Secure...... Medicated
Feminist................ Fat; ball buster
Free spirit............. Substance user
Friendship first........ Trying to live down reputation as slut
Fun..................... Annoying
Gentle.................. Comatose
Good Listener........... Borderline Autistic
New-Age................. All body hair, all the time
Old-fashioned........... Lights out, missionary position only
Open-minded............. Desperate
Outgoing................ Loud
Passionate.............. Loud
Poet.................... Depressive Schzophrenic
Professional............ Real Witch
Redhead................. Shops the Clairol section
Reubenesque............. Grossly Fat
Romantic................ Looks better by candle light
Voluptuous.............. Very Fat
Weight proportional to height..................Hugely Fat
Wants Soulmate.......... One step away from stalking
Widow................... Nagged first husband to death
Young at heart.......... Toothless crone

 

[Colossus]

My personal recommendation is to be very wary of women, people, who claim they are "sweet". It's a disclaimer for them to be a b*tch at will.

I'll take that a step further and say be very wary of any woman who overtly comes out and purports some attractive attribute about herself. If it is a genuine attribute, it will just show. She doesnt need to advertise.

Women who have to come out and tell you--unsolicited--about how sweet or lovable they are, are simply insecure and want to preemptively augment your perception of them.

All of of these online dating sites ask you to describe yourself, however, so I wouldnt take that as seriously as a girl who tells me face-to-face how sweet she is.

 

[jophil28]

My BPD wackjob from 2006 made a point of telling me on our first date that she was a "passive and compliant person " ..that was her first lie to me..and the lies continued for a year while she created all the drama and turmoil and cheating of a textbook BPD.

Gentlemen, if you could "look" inside most women's thought processes you would never date another one of them. They are a seething mass of contradictions based purely on personal gratification.
They ,for the most part NEVER make the corelation between their behavior and bad outcomes.
To the vast majority of women, it is IMPOSSIBLE for them to cause probelms because they believe in their GOd given "goodliness" so, it follows, that problems MUST originate in others.
That means YOU.

 

[jophil28]

You can't get a point across to a woman with words. I don't know how many times I have to say it, but trying to "reason" with a woman will get you nowhere. You will be almost always be met with anger, denial, and hostility. She will blame everyone but herself for anything and everything.

Ha ha.... I do recall my Dad saying something like that when I was 8 years old.
"Son, when it comes to women, you will always be 'in the wrong' even when you are not wrong."

That made no sense to me then and still doesn't, but now I know what he was talking about.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Gentlemen, if you could "look" inside most women's thought processes you would never date another one of them.

I did, I still haven't recovered.

Sometimes I think that the greatest misogynists of history were those who understood women the best. Unfortunately their understanding could not be separated from their feelings and this is what drove them to hate. This is one of the few times that I have to sort-of agree with the idea there are things men "Are Not Meant To Know."

For a man to fully understand women, or even get a good glimpse, and not be traumatized by it takes a very strong spirit. The more I have understood women, and have been able to predict them, the less I have been able to love them.

Oh swirling horror and madness that is the soul of woman!

(Ok, my post is only sort-of tongue in cheek.)

 

[Freddy1]

I have met a few of those "sweet, nice, gentle" women.
Put it this way all women have a dark side.

 

[squirrels]

Why does someone have to TELL you that they're "sweet"?

It's funny how much you can learn about people if you just listen to the unsolicited information they give you.

 

[Jitterbug]

Gentlemen, if you could "look" inside most women's thought processes you would never date another one of them.

Someone here, I believe it's Titties Man, has a signature that says: "For a man, to pretend to understand women is bad manners; to truly understand women is bad morals."

As for people claiming that they're sweet / nice etc., ever since I was a child & read about one of the ancient tricks that the Chinese call "Hide a dagger behind the smile", it immediately raises a red flag.

Now, I've been called sweet, nice, kind, a great guy, by people on numerous occasions in my life. Yet, I don't think of myself in that way at all, and I've certainly never felt the need to "qualify" myself to people as such. Ever.

Same here. Maybe I'm probably nicer than the average arseholes they've had to deal with but that says more about them than my supposed qualities. I often tell them that nah I'm only sweet & nice to my mother, and even she doesn't agree that I'm nice.

I find that the women who claim such qualities, or usually are told by other people that they're so nice / sweet / kind - generally they're liked by everyone - and just smile docilely in response thus acknowledging it, are the first ones to crack when the sh!t hits the fan, and will be ruthless (while still being very polite & niiiiice) as they push that dagger into the back of the ones who mistakenly believe that they're nice & kind.

On the other hand, some of the truly sweet women I know are normally known as rude, a little crazy (like they all are - but nothing malicious) and maverick.

That "Good Child" syndrome posted above describes some of the women I've dealt with very well. I dated one of those last year. It never went far enough for me to see what's truly wrong with her, but she smells of FAKEness and I found it too much to deal with. It seems that the only things real and worth noticing about her were her big tits. Yet everyone else was calling her sweet, nice, kind (and she says the same back to them). I've dealt with some cold, cruel, fvcked up women and that one bothered me more than most.

 

[jophil28]

Why does someone have to TELL you that they're "sweet"?

It's funny how much you can learn about people if you just listen to the unsolicited information they give you.

Yep, exactly ... A woman will tell you all about her character if you casually chat with her about her past.
I find that the best way to get her to "spill the beans" quickly is to encourage her victim statements. Women are addiccted to their victimhood and will endlessly prattle on about how some man "did me wrong" ..however in the story she usually reveals how she did some wrongdoing too - but she feels OK about that and justifies what she did because he did it first, or what he did was 'worse'.

I have heard married women intially portray themselves as sweet, innocent victims of a cheating husband, and then a few minutes later, reveal that they too had an affair. They seemed to believe that because he did it first, their own affair was just a "reaction" and therefore does not count as adultery and betrayal. .

Sheesh !

 

[Colossus]

This all starts when they are children. My own sister--bless her heart---has been a case study for me in the roots of female behavior.

Girls are obviously dealt with differently than boys, and are held to different levels of accountability. The young girl has the ability to pull on her daddy's heartstrings, while the boy is often the object of his rage; or at the very least an annoyance. Boys tend to cause more trouble, but are unquestionably subjected to different levels of accountability and punishment for their 'crimes'.

I remember vividly how easily my sister got away with things. Even if her actions were patently wrong, the parental anger always seemed to fall on me. She would get scolded or even grounded here and there; but the point is she learned how to manipulate at a very early age. I think most girls do.

That's not to say she is a horrible person or a cluster B or what have you....but now I see the same gross lack of making a connection between her own actions and choices and bad outcomes. She and her husband are separating--largely on her accord---and no one can say a word to her about it. She is RIGHT, goddammit, and it's her life.

As an objective thinker I can see some advantages to marriage, but the older I get the less it makes sense to me. The risks outweigh the benefits. Women are in it until they become unhappy, then they want out, because HE is the one holding her down.

 

[penkitten]

"I'm a clean person"

"I'm quiet"

"I don't use drugs" (my favorite)

Why on earth would they feel the need to tell me these things?

here's more:
"i am a christian"
"i don't like drama"
"no games here"
"i am highly intelligent"

and no one ever says the following ones:
"i'm loud"
"i party too much"
"i get evicted alot"
"i'm retarded"
"i'm a wanna be pimp"
"i am the laziest person that ever walked the planet"
"i'm evil"
"i'm a sorry excuse for a human being."

 

[MisterMcGee]

here's more:
"i am a christian"
"i don't like drama"
"no games here"
"i am highly intelligent"

and no one ever says the following ones:
"i'm loud"
"i party too much"
"i get evicted alot"
"i'm retarded"
"i'm a wanna be pimp"
"i am the laziest person that ever walked the planet"
"i'm evil"
"i'm a sorry excuse for a human being."

Not true. A girl I know has told me the following things, many which she told me during the first 3 times I've seen her at work.
These are the things she said:

I'm not outgoing
I hate drama
I'm the laziest person ever
I can't cook.
I'm not popular (said to me when others were talking about others thinking she's popular. she turned to me and told me "trust me, im not one of those popular girls")
I'm so annoying at work! I'm not like this anywhere else.. (she was talking a lot and she said that)
My sister got the good genes (marks, athleticism, height, etc)
I was the prettiest cowgirl at the hallowen party.. (she quietly said this when we were talking about how there were a lot of cowgirls at her halloween party)
I want abs, I've just got flab.
I'm on a diet so I don't look like a cow in my bathing suit. (she told me she's hungry, i told her to have a pizza, she said no and so forth)
I'm the weakest person ever.
I eat the worst foods.
I've never had a boyfriend.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Why does someone have to TELL you that they're "sweet"?

I've noticed the same for people who say that they are "smart" or "mature". Typically they don't turn out to be either.

 

[Luthor Rex]

and no one ever says the following ones:
"i'm evil"

Actually... never mind...

 

[RedPill]

Generally, in my experience, I've found that women who feel compelled to proclaim their more altruistic & feminine nurturing qualities (sweet, kind, etc), are doing so as a hedge against their lack of accountability and the problems it causes later on down the road. They'll pull out the "sweet and delicate flower" card as an exemption to accountability for doing something using utterly poor judgment. "My sweet nature gets me into trouble, it put me at risk".

Conversely, I've also found that women who are accountable for their actions describe themselves in more realistic terms, versus using stereotyped, wholesome abstractions.

 

[penkitten]

well put redpill, but it wont allow me to rep you for it.