Women subconsciously raising the bar to test for persistent high-quality men

[dont-click-me]

Sometimes I'm getting the feeling the women I date are raising the bar on me on purpose to make me pursue them and test how persistent I really am.

In a way that would make sense: If you have many options like an attractive girl, weed out the guys that are only fishing for the low-hanging fruits and keep the ones that push through. For two reasons: If a guy is only after sex, he likely won't put in that much effort. However, if he is interested in starting a family or being with the girl for longer, he most definitely will.

And since women carry the biological risk of getting pregnant with the wrong guy, by definition she has to be more picky. That's also my beef with all of the advice of "her interest level is not high enough, drop her and move on". Why not just raise her level of interest?

Because a guy that is persistent and overcomes obstacles has a higher chance of being able to apply this same skill set to the world which will help him to acquire resources out there. This to me seems like a vital skill you would need to have in order to provide for them.

This would also benefit the internal dynamics of a family. Think of children who are not always compliant, get pissed off, play all sorts of games on mommy and daddy and can be quite a headache. Wouldn't you prefer a father that is both patient and persistent with all of this and still have a somewhat positive outlook on life?

Furthermore, doesn't it lower the probability of anyone of the two cheating? If she makes it so tough for you, she'll likely do the same with others which means you get a girl that is less likely to cheat on you. How special would she feel if she learns you could have many other women but only choose to be with her? Isn't that like the perfect combination? Because it again lowers the chances of her doing something stupid. Not only would she lose your loyalty and faithfulness but you could just go out there and replace her easily.

What's your take on this?

The other thing I which seems like a little bit of a paradox to me is this: Girls are reading the exact same crap we do. Play hard to get, don't be too easy, don't appear needy, make him work for you, etc. I mean some articles even recommend to get rid of anyone who won't pay for dinner as they are clearly not as into you as you'd want them to be.

If we all read this advice and applied it, demographics for any given country would go downhill I guess. If both parties are playing hard to get, being a challenge and whatnot, when and where do you actually meet?

 

[Tictac]

In your earlier post, you acknowledged being a 'newbie'. There is a ton of stuff here that you can read and learn from. So the DJ Bible is good, if long and sometimes disjointed. On the web, there are plenty of vendors that will relieve you of as much as your money as you're willing to part with on the subject of women and relationships.

Not that I think he's the be-all, end-all, I think that you should get Corey Wayne's book "How to Be a 3% Man" and read it a few times. I don't agree with some of what he writes, nobody likely does. But it's a cogent, focused piece on dating and relationships. It may help you to get grounded.

 

[Von]

Persistance works if well received.

Story: A guy asked out for months a girl, until he jumped in front of a bus (stopping h er bus). He got the date. At the time he was broke

They were married until he died. He buit an empire and worth 10billions.

So indeed it can work. However, if she mix signals after date1-2. Next

 

[Yewki]

That's also my beef with all of the advice of "her interest level is not high enough, drop her and move on". Why not just raise her level of interest?

Why do you need to raise her interest level, if she isn't reciprocating?

 

[dont-click-me]

Yewki, I'm only talking about women who did initially reciprocate. I'm not sure if it would also work on others, it might as it can be a huge sign of confidence.

Consider this: It takes her a little longer to verify you really have the level of confidence you claim to possess and she cannot know if all the stuff you tell her about yourself and your successes are actually true.

So if she is hooked initially, she might just disappear and play hard to get to get the proof. This tests for neediness, persistence and confidence at the same time.

 

[Poon King]

Whats my take?

I think playing women's games and following women's rules makes a man a faggot.

You are basically putting poon on a pedestal and saying a man must bust his ass to get one dumb b!tch to trust him enough to open her legs. This is idiotic, because it degrades the man and over-values the woman. This makes no sense since men are superior. Re-Read your post and you will see what I mean. It reeks of beta desperation.

You should be spinning plates and making women COMPETE with each other to get maximum attention from you... not bowing and scraping to "prove yourself" to some entitled c*nt.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

I am finding women personality wise very uninteresting and am not pursuing them at the moment, they all talk about the same stuff and since they are women its not stuff we have in common or relatable. Pursing my own goals and dreams is the mission and will be for the next 5 years, and probably my whole life

 

[El Payaso]

It's probably a chick posting this. Just look at the style of writing.

 

[Vivacity]

Sometimes I'm getting the feeling the women I date are raising the bar on me on purpose to make me pursue them and test how persistent I really am.

In a way that would make sense: If you have many options like an attractive girl, weed out the guys that are only fishing for the low-hanging fruits and keep the ones that push through. For two reasons: If a guy is only after sex, he likely won't put in that much effort. However, if he is interested in starting a family or being with the girl for longer, he most definitely will.

And since women carry the biological risk of getting pregnant with the wrong guy, by definition she has to be more picky. That's also my beef with all of the advice of "her interest level is not high enough, drop her and move on". Why not just raise her level of interest?

Because a guy that is persistent and overcomes obstacles has a higher chance of being able to apply this same skill set to the world which will help him to acquire resources out there. This to me seems like a vital skill you would need to have in order to provide for them.

This would also benefit the internal dynamics of a family. Think of children who are not always compliant, get pissed off, play all sorts of games on mommy and daddy and can be quite a headache. Wouldn't you prefer a father that is both patient and persistent with all of this and still have a somewhat positive outlook on life?

Furthermore, doesn't it lower the probability of anyone of the two cheating? If she makes it so tough for you, she'll likely do the same with others which means you get a girl that is less likely to cheat on you. How special would she feel if she learns you could have many other women but only choose to be with her? Isn't that like the perfect combination? Because it again lowers the chances of her doing something stupid. Not only would she lose your loyalty and faithfulness but you could just go out there and replace her easily.

What's your take on this?

The other thing I which seems like a little bit of a paradox to me is this: Girls are reading the exact same crap we do. Play hard to get, don't be too easy, don't appear needy, make him work for you, etc. I mean some articles even recommend to get rid of anyone who won't pay for dinner as they are clearly not as into you as you'd want them to be.

If we all read this advice and applied it, demographics for any given country would go downhill I guess. If both parties are playing hard to get, being a challenge and whatnot, when and where do you actually meet?

Nah, I will take 2 shots and if she does not reciprocate my attention and interest, I will move on to the next. Self-respect is for alphas. Persistence is for betas.

 

[Fireballs]

When a girl likes you, she will be the first to break any 'rules'. They can't help themselves.

 

[dont-click-me]

I've experienced both. My last long term girlfriend I only got because I was persistent and about a year ago I made a fool out of myself pursuing a girl who really was not interested at all. Both rejected me initially.

When you consider that, I guess Vivacity's approach of giving it 2-3 strikes makes sense. It might have been though that I came off as needy in the second scenario.

Poon King, I think if you play it right, you get to keep your self-respect and will still be persistent. Also I'm not following why you think that men are superior to women. I'm not to keen to fish for someone inferior or superior. Best case for me would be to get an equal looks and intellectual wise.

Also I think, it's not so much "women's games" as it is "nature's games". I mean by nature women play the passive part of the chooser and men play the active part of presenting themselves and offering their qualities. Think of when you penetrate a woman. Her part is a lot more passive than yours. ;-)

I'm not really into spinning plates as I'm looking for a life partner and find it hard to believe that any woman with a good upbringing and self-respect would fall for a dude who is seeing other women. But my experience here is limited to observation so I might try it in the future as I'm a frequent sufferer from oneitis.

Personally, my instinct tells me I'm disgusted by women who have had a lot of sexual partners. My thinking goes like this: It's unnatural to **** so many dudes. Nature would have weeded you out a long time ago because you are a carrier of disease and statistically in one out of five cases either the kid or the woman might have died when giving birth. These puzzles are solved by modern medicine but our biology doesn't know about condoms, cesarean section and the like. It's a much higher risk for a female which is why they have to be picky as only the picky ones would have survived up until a 100 years ago.

As for being gender specific: I rarely ever hear a story of a guy changing his mind about a girl. Either she is hot or not and we know it instantly. If she looks ugly but is a nice submissive girl, I till can't get it up. On the other hand you hear those stories from women all the time how he made her fall for him. To me it's this: When you are around them and they realize more and more how in charge of your life you are they become slowly but surely attracted to you. Initially she puts you in the boy category but then she realises that you are actually a man.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[dont-click-me]

Persistance works if well received.

Story: A guy asked out for months a girl, until he jumped in front of a bus (stopping h er bus). He got the date. At the time he was broke

They were married until he died. He buit an empire and worth 10billions.

So indeed it can work. However, if she mix signals after date1-2. Next

Von, read up on how Richard Branson met his wife. Similar story. I find it hard to believe that people would label him beta. If you run 100+ businesses you can't really be beta, but I might be wrong here. ;-)

 

[dont-click-me]

If you had a social circle with hot women in it, all the mysteries will be revealed to you in plain sight. The whole being persistent thing only exists if you cold approached her. She doesn't know how much value you have. However, in a social circle, if you are the alpha male - the king of your tribe, she chases you. Women always go for alphas first. Genetics is more important than anything else. They will find a beta to take care of the baby if need be.

As a cold approach/no life seducer, every sticking point you have exists because the woman doesn't know your value. So you run into 100 tests she throws up to see how much value you have. But as the king of your tribe, there are no mysteries. There's no "game'. There is only choosing women.

The key is to be a king of a tribe. Trying to calibrate to a thousand tests is a huge waste of time. So just work on networking and developing and expanding your social tribe. And then dominate it. The game will reverse itself and you will realize you are the prize....and women will actually calibrate to you! It sounds unbelievable unless you've experienced what it's like to have unlimited validation as a king of a social tribe that has a lot of women in it. It's a totally different ball game. It's having absolute power and abundance vs trying to micro-calibrate to every little sh!t women throw at you when you are a no-life seducer.

Thanks for explaining that, it makes perfect sense. In my own social circle it kind of works like that for me. Instead of **** tests, you get admiration and girls follow along. It happened to me last Friday when I was in a club with mates and knew everyone because the party was hosted by one of my best mates. Girls flock to you and it almost felt too easy. So I get where you are coming from. However, my own social circle isn't packed with hot females and those who are tend to have boyfriends or are single mothers, both of which is kind of a no-no.

 

[dont-click-me]

1. Do not "claim" to have confidence. This should be demonstrated in ways other than chasing her.

2. When you say "initially reciprocate", what exactly is being reciprocated here?

I get the sense is that you showed interest in a girl, in your mind she reciprocated but has now backed off and you are convincing yourself she wants you to chase her.

I think you should tell us the whole story instead of just asking us to confirm your thoughts while only painting us the tiniest sliver of the whole picture.

1. Agreed, chasing is kind of the last resort if you really like the girl.
2. She is responding well to your initial approach in a friendly and interested manner.

And you are right about your assumption of a girl backing off. Since I had mixed results with being persistent in the past I started this thread to see who else had a similar experience. I had this thought because I girl just hung up on me. See my other thread for this. I didn't want to stuff more questions in there so I started a new one.

I also agree that beta and alpha are totally contextual. I still don't consider the very act of pursuing a woman as a beta trait though. As man, you are the active role, the force, the go-getter, the guy who leads the interaction forward. If you pursue but cannot be crashed even if you get rejected, that to me is not only powerful but the very definition of an alpha male. Even if you lose, you tried all you could and will be respected for it provided you did not do anything totally funny or out of line. You guys must have noted this that when a girl warms up to you even then do you still get some level of resistance sprinkled in-between depending on what you are trying to do. A confident guy just brushes these things off in a ****y but still respectful way. Don't forget the smirky smile. ;-)

 

[bigneil]

"When Harry Met Sally" is only a movie (though playing great right now).

In reality, attraction is not a choice. You can't logically convince a woman to like you.

The only way to raise interest level is to physically or financially improve yourself.

Even then, I've found that the girls who are best for us will feature some type of love-at-first-sight moment when you first meet her.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

"When Harry Met Sally" is only a movie (though playing great right now).

In reality, attraction is not a choice. You can't logically convince a woman to like you.

The only way to raise interest level is to physically or financially improve yourself.

Even then, I've found that the girls who are best for us will feature some type of love-at-first-sight moment when you first meet her.

Yeah because they always remember that...

 

[bigneil]

Ultimately, you have to be someone who is striking to her, someone she tells her friends about, someone she fantasizes about. It's not easy.

 

[RangerMIke]

Yewki, I'm only talking about women who did initially reciprocate. I'm not sure if it would also work on others, it might as it can be a huge sign of confidence.

Don't read too much on the PUA guys selling of 'confidence' and the golden key to get between her legs. Yes, confidence is important to women but it really isn't something you can fake unless you are with a young women with little experience or drunk. Confidence is a byproduct of success, and it is success that women are attracted too. So men that are successful with women, are NOT going to spend too much time chasing any particular woman. Successful men make their interest known (by asking her out) and gauge HER interest based on how she responds... if she gives too much resistance, he's not going to waste his time.

Consider this: It takes her a little longer to verify you really have the level of confidence you claim to possess and she cannot know if all the stuff you tell her about yourself and your successes are actually true.

Nope... sorry, women can figure you out in one minute. You really can't hide anything from them, they are uncanny. Even if she is wrong about you in the first few moments she meets you, she still has that opinion and it's hard to change it. She reacts emotionally to how you show up, and that is it. She really doesn't care if she's wrong about you or is somehow evaluating you over time... she just doesn't give a fvck, if she is attractive, you are just one of several dudes after her. Really she doesn't care.. a c0ck is a c0ck, unless she's in love with you. If in the first few moments of meeting you she determines that you are not someone she will fvck... there is not a whole lot you can do to turn that around. If she pushes back and you don't walk away, she will not take this as confidence, she will see this as a man with limited options.

So if she is hooked initially, she might just disappear and play hard to get to get the proof. This tests for neediness, persistence and confidence at the same time.

Hmmmm. No, not really, there are some women that might do this, but you don't want women like this anyway. If a woman likes you she is not going to play games and risk losing a shot at you, especially if you indicate that you are just going to walk away. If she is unwilling to invest time and effort to be with you, she will not value you, if she doesn't value you as a man, she will not respect you, no respect = no love.

 

[RangerMIke]

Ultimately, you have to be someone who is striking to her, someone she tells her friends about, someone she fantasizes about. It's not easy.

Yep.... the key here is 'someone she can brag about to other women', if she is not talking about you to her friends, you really are nothing to her. Best way to figure out how a women feels about you is to see how her friends act around you. Women are pretty good at hiding how they really feel about a guy they are interested in, unless you are good with women and pay attention, but her friends are easy to read. If they get flirty and really friendly with you... it's a good guess she's talking about you. Women can't help behaving this way... they might not REALLY be interested in you, but their natural competitive nature will just come out if they are hearing good things about a man.

Women wear dudes like they wear purses. A women's social value is determined by the men she can attract. This is why she can be painfully rude to guys that hit up on her that she does not find attractive.... Why... unattractive men hitting on her ATTACKS her self-esteem.

 

[Poon King]

Poon King, I think if you play it right, you get to keep your self-respect and will still be persistent. Also I'm not following why you think that men are superior to women. I'm not to keen to fish for someone inferior or superior. Best case for me would be to get an equal looks and intellectual wise.

Society has trained beta men to quickly jump to the defense of women when someone says something like "Men are superior". HOWEVER, the media often pushes the idea of female superiority and sometimes they just flat out say it. No one complains. And when someone says "women are superior" its rare a woman would jump to argue against that.

Also I think, it's not so much "women's games" as it is "nature's games". I mean by nature women play the passive part of the chooser and men play the active part of presenting themselves and offering their qualities. Think of when you penetrate a woman. Her part is a lot more passive than yours. ;-)

Which is why a woman should always follow your lead and submit to you. Otherwise.. she is the one in control. Women can quickly identify men who are attractive vs. beta men they can control with their p*ssy. If you have to jump through hoops to f*ck a woman.. then she sees you as a beta provider.

There are generally two types of romantic relationships:

1. Those where the man is in control and the woman submits to him because she knows she has a catch
2. Those where the woman "settles" for a beta. In these relationships the woman is in control and basically exploits the man to meet her personal goals (kids, money, protection, status, etc.).

I'm not really into spinning plates as I'm looking for a life partner and find it hard to believe that any woman with a good upbringing and self-respect would fall for a dude who is seeing other women. But my experience here is limited to observation so I might try it in the future as I'm a frequent sufferer from oneitis.

You will never know the sexual history of any woman you date that is not a virgin. So just learn to accept that. Women change at different life stages. I know a slutty woman I used to f*ck in college who recently became a born-again Christian and married some clue-less beta who probably thinks she has only been with one or two men. She has been with at least 50 men to my knowledge.

Your view of current conditions is outdated and you might fall into a trap down the road because of it.

Personally, my instinct tells me I'm disgusted by women who have had a lot of sexual partners. My thinking goes like this: It's unnatural to **** so many dudes. Nature would have weeded you out a long time ago because you are a carrier of disease and statistically in one out of five cases either the kid or the woman might have died when giving birth. These puzzles are solved by modern medicine but our biology doesn't know about condoms, cesarean section and the like. It's a much higher risk for a female which is why they have to be picky as only the picky ones would have survived up until a 100 years ago.

Nature only cares about reproduction. In order for reproduction to occur.. sex has to occur. So nature engineered us to f*ck and f*ck often.

As for being gender specific: I rarely ever hear a story of a guy changing his mind about a girl. Either she is hot or not and we know it instantly. If she looks ugly but is a nice submissive girl, I till can't get it up. On the other hand you hear those stories from women all the time how he made her fall for him. To me it's this: When you are around them and they realize more and more how in charge of your life you are they become slowly but surely attracted to you. Initially she puts you in the boy category but then she realises that you are actually a man.

Just a few thoughts.

Women know instantly if they find a man sexually attractive and plan to f*ck him. The difference is that women don't limit themselves to men they find attractive. They are willing to date and sleep with men they don't find attractive if that man can provide a certain level of utility she can utilize. Women are in the game for resources more than sex. This is why women often have orbiters. They like to "collect men" whom they can use while dangling the possibility of sex down the road in front of each man so he sticks around.

Men who understand the game know that they need to do VERY LITTLE to get a woman who is truly attracted to them. I know this from experience.