Women are wired to change to your desire?

[AlwayzConquer]

I've been listening to a sermon on how to love women biblically. One thing the pastor mentioned is that women are wired to change and adapt when they find a leader to lead them. Wondering if anyone else agrees. I realized my best relationships were where the woman bought into me as being the leader and changed who she was to better fit me.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I agree. They wrap around you when they believe in you.

 

[zekko]

I think it's interesting that so many blame religion for creating AFCs. Yet if you read the Bible, it's take on womem is probably a lot closer to SoSuave's than mainstream society's.

 

[Zarky]

Please provide some citations.

Religion is an attempt to control human behavior through supernatural beliefs. As with all attempts to control human behavior, one of its goals is social order. To achieve social order it's helpful if most men have a woman and if children are raised to contribute to the society. To encourage this, it's not beneficial to teach men too much about women. It's, in fact, best to keep men in the dark about women and encourage men to become earnest, loyal breadwinners and fathers who don't ask too many questions about what's going on behind the curtain.

Any religion which points out truths about women to men would have trouble achieving this.

 

[zekko]

Please provide some citations.

Well, hopefully this doesn't get locked, but here are a few. Some might be considered sexist. I know you are pro-feminist, but I don't think the prevailing views of the forum are.

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Proverbs 21:19
It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman.

Proverbs 30:20
This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, “I have done no wrong.”

Proverbs 27:15
A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike;

Proverbs 11:22
Like a gold ring in a pig's snout is a beautiful woman without discretion

Ezekiel 16:15
“But you trusted in your beauty and played the ***** because of your renown and lavished your whorings on any passerby; your beauty became his.

Isaiah 3:16
The Lord said: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with outstretched necks, glancing wantonly with their eyes, mincing along as they go, tinkling with their feet,

I Corinthians 11:3
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Eccles. 25:13
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman."

Eccles. 25: 26
"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go."

Eccles. 26:9-10
The *****dom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty."

Eccles. 42:13-14
"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach."

Eccles. 26:14-15
"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued."

Sirach 25:14
No poison worse than that of a serpent, no venom greater than that of a woman.

Sirach 25:12
Worst of all wounds is that of the heart, worst of all evils is that of a woman.

 

[AlwayzConquer]

Zarky, I'm not looking for a religous debate here but I disagree with your point. The most influential people in the bible were not conformists. John the baptist was a recluse, lived in the wilderness. Rahab was a prostitute, Samson was never mentioned as having children, just as sleeping with alot of women. Jesus' apostles quit their everyday life to follow him around. In fact, the Bible tells us to be the opposite of worldly, not to depend on money like everyone else,etc.

- I can link everyone to the podcast. It's excellent material. Other points i took away:

1. The head of man is God. The head of woman is man. Women are not to preach for this reason.
2. If you are not being the Spiritual head in your house. She'll find someone else who will
3. Once married. You must love your wife as Christ loved the Church. Two words: Sacrifice, forgiveness. This would be considered AFC by most people, but it's what I am instructed to do.

 

[Scars]

Well, hopefully this doesn't get locked, but here are a few. Some might be considered sexist. I know you are pro-feminist, but I don't think the prevailing views of the forum are.

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Proverbs 21:19
It is better to live in a desert land than with a quarrelsome and fretful woman.

Proverbs 30:20
This is the way of an adulteress: she eats and wipes her mouth and says, “I have done no wrong.”

Proverbs 27:15
A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike;

Proverbs 11:22
Like a gold ring in a pig's snout is a beautiful woman without discretion

Ezekiel 16:15
“But you trusted in your beauty and played the ***** because of your renown and lavished your whorings on any passerby; your beauty became his.

Isaiah 3:16
The Lord said: Because the daughters of Zion are haughty and walk with outstretched necks, glancing wantonly with their eyes, mincing along as they go, tinkling with their feet,

I Corinthians 11:3
"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Eccles. 25:13
"Give me any plague, but the plague of the heart: and any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman."

Eccles. 25: 26
"If she go not as thou wouldest have her, cut her off from thy flesh, and give her a bill of divorce, and let her go."

Eccles. 26:9-10
The *****dom of a woman may be known in her haughty looks and eyelids. If thy daughter be shameless, keep her in straitly, lest she abuse herself through overmuch liberty."

Eccles. 42:13-14
"For from garments cometh a moth, and from women wickedness. Better is the churlishness of a man than a courteous woman, a woman, I say, which bringeth shame and reproach."

Eccles. 26:14-15
"A silent and loving woman is a gift of the Lord: and there is nothing so much worth as a mind well instructed. A shamefaced and faithful woman is a double grace, and her continent mind cannot be valued."

Sirach 25:14
No poison worse than that of a serpent, no venom greater than that of a woman.

Sirach 25:12
Worst of all wounds is that of the heart, worst of all evils is that of a woman.

Holy damn, I never realized all this before.

-Scars

 

[5string]

Wow zekko! Made me want to stand up and start clogging for Jesus!

 

[JohnChops]

Holy crap I never noticed that when I read the bible excerpts before.... That's an eye opener.

 

[Who Dares Win]

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

It doesnt take religion to suggest such common sense lines, no surprise that instinctually men feel frustration in having a woman boss just like kids are annoyed of those middle aged women telling them if they are worth or not according to their moods.

Anyway agree with what op said, the only way to make a couple working properly is the man leading and the woman following, the other way around create fretful women and frustrated men.

 

[ArcBound]

As zekko said bible passages do show a huge inequality between man and woman as being the natural order of things and there are even a few chapters dedicated to adulterous women in the book of proverbs.

Perhaps a clarification could be made: a lot of modern churches can create AFC's. The differences between man and woman are not as established and the meekness aspect is encouraged. Boys read it and see "The meek shall inherit the earth" and turn the other cheek passages and it leads to submissive, kind men.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Zarky, I'm not looking for a religous debate here but I disagree with your point. The most influential people in the bible were not conformists. John the baptist was a recluse, lived in the wilderness. Rahab was a prostitute, Samson was never mentioned as having children, just as sleeping with alot of women. Jesus' apostles quit their everyday life to follow him around. In fact, the Bible tells us to be the opposite of worldly, not to depend on money like everyone else,etc.

- I can link everyone to the podcast. It's excellent material. Other points i took away:

1. The head of man is God. The head of woman is man. Women are not to preach for this reason.
2. If you are not being the Spiritual head in your house. She'll find someone else who will
3. Once married. You must love your wife as Christ loved the Church. Two words: Sacrifice, forgiveness. This would be considered AFC by most people, but it's what I am instructed to do.

And this is a pleasure and honor to do with a submissive, respectful woman who devotes her life to her man. But here in the West they have all but vanished, even in the church.

 

[AlwayzConquer]

And this is a pleasure and honor to do with a submissive, respectful woman who devotes her life to her man. But here in the West they have all but vanished, even in the church.

Absolutely. It occurred to me as I wrote that post. There is no such thing as a submissive and respectful woman. I've had one with each but not both. There is actually another sermon, explaining how this is a curse, as the women and guys of this generation are coming from a broken household. "Mom divorced and humiliated dad post divorce, so I can do the same too." Look at elderly women, many are feminine and submissive and were raised correctly. Now, where we may differ is I believe you must love her and still show sacrifice and forgiveness, as that is what Jesus did for us. Someone needs to break the curse. I had this mindset with my last BPD ex, 3 breakups. Not every woman is ready or will ever be ready or this kind of man.

 

[Cassify]

wooow never thought the bible had stuff like that in it!
what amaze me the most is that the relationship man-woman didn't change a single bit during 2000 years lol

 

[Zarky]

oh, the standard manosphere "good housewife" tripe. Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of that in the bible and all other ancient religious texts. I was kind of hoping for something a little more interesting.

 

[Mark1234]

oh, the standard manosphere "good housewife" tripe. Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of that in the bible and all other ancient religious texts. I was kind of hoping for something a little more interesting.

What quotes were you reading? I thought those were very interesting. They don't only apply to "housewifes" but they speak on the nature of women themselves.

Amazing job with the quotes, zekko. Lead, don't take **** from your women, and be wary of their behavior sounds pretty "Alpha" (lol) to me, certainly not AFC.

 

[Atom Smasher]

wooow never thought the bible had stuff like that in it!
what amaze me the most is that the relationship man-woman didn't change a single bit during 2000 years lol

I've found in my experience that most who rail against the bible (not directed at you at all, Cassify), have plenty of ideas about what it says, but in fact have no clue what it actually says. It becomes a real wake-up call when one actually reads it and starts to speak from a point of knowledge instead of from a point of shooting from the hip because of tidbits they've heard here and there.

God is all about aplha-maleness, but that also includes His command that a man loves his woman by taking care of her sacrificially. In like manner, He commands women to respect their husbands, not to love them. She cannot choose to love him, but she must choose to respect him.

Remember this: When the enemy wants to attack the man, he does so through the woman. He did so in the garden of Eden by getting Eve to question what God had said ("Indeed, did God really say..."). He used different tactics in the middle and dark ages, and different again in the 1800s. Then he switched it up again in the 1920s by working to confuse the genders by causing women to think they could be men. Enter the Great Depression, some wars, and we come to the 1960s where the attack on man through the woman resumed in earnest.

Now the fabric of family has been completely destroyed, women have become entirely brainwashed because men have not stepped up to the plate and CORRECTED them. We are now reaping what has been sown by our forefathers.

Adam should have corrected Eve and taken the fruit away from her, reminding her of God's commands. Adam was her authority. Instead he stood by weakly as she told him to taste it. While Eve was deceived (God clearly spells this out in the New Testament), Adam was disobedient and was held responsible. The point here is that the woman was deceived, while the man knew better but failed to act and stand up as a man as her authority.

Today men are responsible for the entitled, bratty behavior of women because men are afraid of their own shadows. We should be correcting women individually and on a societal level but instead we have a bunch of girlie men who have been thoroughly indoctrinated by the feminized educational system to submit to women, who they have been taught are morally superior, while in fact they are amoral to the core. A man can and should decide to live morally by choice and by principle. A woman is incapable of this. She can only comprehend morality in light of the feeling of the moment, and not as an absolute life-guiding paradigm. Hence she is bereft of principled morality. That is our domain. The question is, are we handling our business or are we being handled by the inmates who are truly running the asylum today?

 

[Desdinova]

The problem is people group The Bible and Religion into the same category. They are not. One is a book written thousands of years ago, and one is a group of people who live by someone's interpretation of that book.

Religions will take what they want out of the bible, interpret it, and use that interpretation to lead their flocks. But, if you read the bible in its raw form, much of it can be a pretty interesting read.

I'm surprised many of you didn't know that stuff was in there.

My favorite is from Leviticus 15:19-28

19 When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

20 “‘Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.

24 “‘If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.

25 “‘When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

28 “‘When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the Lord for the uncleanness of her discharge.

I was dating a wannabe feminist who was thinking of joining a religion. When I showed her this, she quit going to church :cheer:

 

[Atom Smasher]

"Religion" is mankind's attempt to create an imaginary god who will not judge them. The problem people have with the bible is that God reveals Himself as a judge of our behavior and as our higher moral authority.

Both of these aspects are extremely distasteful to mankind, because man wants to be his own "god" and to call his own shots. He wants to be his own moral authority. Therefore he creates various religions in order to allow himself to maintain the illusion of godhead. He also imagines that he can earn his way into heaven, when in fact God says that it is utterly impossible to earn one's way into heaven. That is what necessitated One who lived a sinless life, so that if we place our faith in Him, we are credited with His righteousness, a righteousness we could never earn on our own.

Placing our faith in the God of the bible is not just another "religion", but rather a relationship. It is a properly restored relationship where man submits to God's authority and looks to Him to define what is right and wrong.

Man's rebellion against God's authority parallels women's current rebellion against men's authority. Both are based on pride, ego, and self-delusion.

My advice to one and all is to avoid shooting from the hip with ideas you have about that book, and to read it instead to gain knowledge. Many people have done so in order to finally put it to rest as myth, only to discover its truth and its power to turn one's world upside down (in a good sense). Many, many staunch athiests and agnostics have read the book in order to be able to refute it intelligently, and have instead been changed at their very core because of the supernatural power of that word.

Chew on this:

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.
Isaiah 55

But getting back to the subject at-hand, God clearly states in His word that man is endowed with AUTHORITY over women, and that he is to exercise it without shame, knowing that it was given to him by his creator. Why then do we shrink back from exercising it? You are hard-wired to lead women, and they are hard-wired to submit to that authority. The way women are behaving these days is simply the result of the media and politicians (who need their votes) brainwashing them into thinking they posses the attributes of men. We men need to get rid of the "every man for himself" mentality, stop our internal bickering and work together to take back our God-given authority.

Much of our perception of how women are is based upon the media circus. I think it's true that in our day-to-day lives, we run into many women who only have small amounts of media infection and deep down want to be treated as a woman and led. They hold loosely to feminist principles but are ripe for a man coming in to harvest and restore her womanhood. The feminism they loosely carry is simply societal pressure which a man can release her from.

p.s. - We are currently handling this discussion as intelligent, respectful men exchanging ideas about a very important aspect of life. Therefore as moderator I'm leaving it open.

Des, let's keep it open for a while until someone tanks it. I really hate the idea of pulling the plug on this important aspect of manhood while it's still being handled with maturity and mutual respect on both sides of the table. We'll know when it's time.

 

[zekko]

oh, the standard manosphere "good housewife" tripe. Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of that in the bible and all other ancient religious texts. I was kind of hoping for something a little more interesting.

Well, my main point was that women were not described with the "innocent angels" portrayal that so many guys feel deceived by, and might ascribe to religion. And that the man has to lead, of course.