Wives Disrespecting Husbands

[STR8UP]

You subscribe to the thinking that women act from a genetic imperative and that evolutionary forces drive their behavior. You said as much in another current thread,and you have promoted this theory many times in the past.
Therefore by logical extension she is powerless to change her ways and you are even more powerless to influence her. This makes you impotent in your relationships and leaves you with the "walk away "option as your ONLY response.

I don't know how you derive that I subscribe to an all or nothing mentality from what i have posted. It's another case of you filling in the blanks and painting my views as being OPPOSITE of your views as some others have done with other ideas I have posted.

I never stated that women are controlled exclusively by evolutionary forces. You can debate just about any aspect of human behavior from the standpoint of nature OR nurture, but when it comes down to it almost everything is influenced by BOTH.

I am not promoting the idea that women have no control over themselves, but everything you post seems to advocate the idea that they have COMPLETE control over their actions, which is as utterly absurd as the idea that they have no control.

Our behavior is created by biology and directed to an extent by society. But when it comes down to it, biology will trump anything society tries to throw at it.

As smart as we are we are no match for mother nature.

 

[puma183]

What I don't understand is HOW things got this way. When in American history did the people vote on a law that said, "Women can do whatever they want and men will have to sit there and take it."? When did we pass a law saying that a husband must maintain his ex-wife's lifestyle indefinitely? When did Congress stand up and vote that women can be total ho's from age 15 to 35 and they are still entitled to an expensive wedding, honeymoon, house, car, and lifestyle, as though they were a virginal princess?

Excellent questions my friend. This book recounts when/how this happened:

http://stephenbaskerville.net/Book_Taken_Into_Custody.htm

And we thought, The Matrix was pure fiction.

 

[thedeparted]

Excellent questions my friend. This book recounts when/how this happened:

http://stephenbaskerville.net/Book_Taken_Into_Custody.htm

And we thought, The Matrix was pure fiction.

That looks like a great book, but I will probably have to lock up my guns before I read it

 

[Nutz]

You subscribe to the thinking that women act from a genetic imperative and that evolutionary forces drive their behavior. You said as much in another current thread,and you have promoted this theory many times in the past.
Therefore by logical extension she is powerless to change her ways and you are even more powerless to influence her. This makes you impotent in your relationships and leaves you with the "walk away "option as your ONLY response.

THerefore, when you encounter poor behavior from women I guess you just have to suck it up because nobody can change a damn thing and nobody is accountable except Mother Nature.

Right there. That's the key phrase. "Nobody is accountable".

We are accountable, but women these days behave as though they are not. And for the most part they aren't. It's up to us as men to hold them accountable by walking or putting them in their place when they behave badly. Sadly, feminism in this country has made doing so taboo at best so most women behave as they will without any proper recourse.

 

[TheHumanist]

Our behavior is created by biology and directed to an extent by society. But when it comes down to it, biology will trump anything society tries to throw at it.

As smart as we are we are no match for mother nature.

To be fair Str8up, not here to jump on your balls and I do agree that nature and nurture together influences our behavior. The statement that biology will trump anything society tries to throw at it does implicates that since any resistance will fail, biology is the ultimate one in control. In a way, it is promoting that women have no control over themselves as any attempt to will fail.

Besides, the real discussion anyways is suppose to be wives disrespecting husbands. I would put this in area of low character problem as the women is willing to treat her husband in such a way (fear of walking away or not) than an issue of biological programing or other things.

 

[Jitterbug]

Human beings have triumphed so many times against our biological limitations. Look at our world today and compare it against our caveman ancestors'.

 

[thedeparted]

Wives disrespect husbands because there is no cost to doing so and it makes them feel good. What is he realistically gonna do about it? What leverage does he have in the relationship? This is why I feel that marriage often *ruins* a relationship. B/c once she has all the cards, she no longer has to behave, and it's downhill from there...:kick:

 

[Nutz]

Excellent questions my friend. This book recounts when/how this happened:

http://stephenbaskerville.net/Book_Taken_Into_Custody.htm

And we thought, The Matrix was pure fiction.

Uh, just an FYI the author teaches at Patrick Henry University. I'm told they're are a completely right-wing extremist group coupled with a healthy dose of religious nutjobbery, which requires students to sign a statement acknowledging the existence of Satan, among other things. All faculty there must sign the Statement of Biblical Worldview, which includes, "Any biology, Bible, or other courses at PHC dealing with creation will teach creation from the understanding of Scripture that God's creative work, as described in Genesis 1:1-31, was completed in six twenty-four hour days."

 

[puma183]

Uh, just an FYI the author teaches at Patrick Henry University. I'm told they're are a completely right-wing extremist group coupled with a healthy dose of religious nutjobbery, which requires students to sign a statement acknowledging the existence of Satan, among other things. All faculty there must sign the Statement of Biblical Worldview, which includes, "Any biology, Bible, or other courses at PHC dealing with creation will teach creation from the understanding of Scripture that God's creative work, as described in Genesis 1:1-31, was completed in six twenty-four hour days."

Oops, I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing out. That said he uses real statistics with footnoes and referenced sources in his arguments and his policy change recommendations seem rational. But it's good to know in what kind of environment he was allowed to make tenure. Not to be an apologist, but maybe the feminist establishment in mainstream universities just wouldn't let him in given the focus of his research, and the guy had to go with whatever university gave him tenure.

 

[STR8UP]

To be fair Str8up, not here to jump on your balls and I do agree that nature and nurture together influences our behavior. The statement that biology will trump anything society tries to throw at it does implicates that since any resistance will fail, biology is the ultimate one in control. In a way, it is promoting that women have no control over themselves as any attempt to will fail.

You have to account for TIME in the equation.

I said that "in the end" biology will trump all.

That doesn't mean that conscious decisions are not made that contradict biology, but it does mean that when it comes around full circle biology wins. And sometimes it's a "six of one half dozen of another" type things.

 

[puma183]

Hey Guys,
While we are talking about biology-vs-civilization/culture (and subsequent effects on male/female mating behavior), what do you think about the following article?:

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/

Perhaps it shows that both play a role?

 

[STR8UP]

Hey Guys,
While we are talking about biology-vs-civilization/culture (and subsequent effects on male/female mating behavior), what do you think about the following article?:

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/

Perhaps it shows that both play a role?

Interesting. I read through a couple of articles and this caught my eye since it is about dead on as to my belief about the CORE of everything being the biological drive for us to survive and have sex.

It is horribly inaccurate for one to say that only men want sex. It is far more accurate to say that both men and women want sex equally. In fact, the only imperatives of all living things is to: 1). Survive, so that one can: 2). Reproduce. All other things are in support of these two imperatives that are universal to all living things. Males and females both have an equal desire to do this. Sex is the core of existence itself.

We may think that we humans are smarter than animals, but when it comes to sexual instinct we are animals that follow the same mating patterns as most other species in the animal kingdom.

 

[ketostix]

Hey Guys,
While we are talking about biology-vs-civilization/culture (and subsequent effects on male/female mating behavior), what do you think about the following article?:

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/

Perhaps it shows that both play a role?

That's a pretty comprehensive blog about the topic. I agree with most of it, and many of his ideas are the same conclusion I independently arrived at.
I like his point that prior to the 1860's a man had ownership rights of his wife's sexuality and his children, and prior to the 1970's marriage was a real contract and not the fraudalent one of today. I also agree with the point that more men were given the status of "alpha" by having economic power but society has stripped that away and gave it to women, and stripped away many men's "alphaness". There are some good points about how women are part of athe herd, that the way things were was fair, that women are equal but not identical, etc. I think as you read through the blog it makes a good case that /nurture/civilization/culture/idealogy plays a significant role along side biology.

 

[jophil28]

I'm not so sure of this STR8UP, I think everyone has COMPLETE control over their ACTIONS, not so much their EMOTIONS (desires, fears, etc,...) which is what I think you meant.

That is the statement which makes the most sense in this thread.
WE do NOT choose our feelings. Unlike the nonsense offered by the latest crop of new agey psychologists would have us believe. Our feelings come to un automatically and unbidden and sometimes unwanted BUT we do have ultimate control over how we ACT on them.

Mother Nature MAY nudge us ( and women ) in a variety of directions towards self gratification BUT to offer that as the explanation for the way that women act in such self centered and unscruplous ways is poorly understood nonsense. THey are doing what they are doing because the consequences of their making poor choices have been removed by our culture . Women are floundering in self indulgence like undisciplined children.

Read Nathanial Brandon "THe Art of Living Consciously", to understand how most of your precious "Mother Nature made her do it " beliefs are sheer foolish third rate academic nonsense. He skillfully dismantles most of this debate.

 

[jophil28]

There are two female WASP cultures where I live.
The first is the "city" girl who loves and live the bling lifestyle. She is "entitled" to whatever she wants just because she wants it. She sees marriage as a "ticket to ride" and an arrangement that men PROVIDE for women's benefit. To her, her golden pvssy is her ultimate asset and the only one which she needs to maintain and supply to keep the deal moving forward.

The second culture is the "country" girl ' These are women who have been raised in a rural setting. They have seen their mothers WORK alongside their men as a natural daily event. There are no salons or bling parties . When these women come into the cities to pursue a career they are standouts.
They are bubbly, energetic and great fun. They do not expect to be treated like a goddess or fawned and worshipped over. These woman make great wives or great girlfriends because they expect to contribute to all of their life activities.

I have had two women like this. Sadly both returned to the country.

SO much for the biology trumps nurture debate.

 

[Rob Fedders]

Hi guys, I hope you don't mind me butting in, but I am the guy who wrote the articles at "No Ma'am" linked further up the page. I seen your link and have been following along.

As per the "Nature vs. Nurture" debate... yes, yes, there are half truths in both arguments, which keeps all of us effectively neutered as we discuss which is real and which isn't.

Here is a well hidden argument though, that I would like to bring to your attention.

Back before the days of PETA, scientists used to do all kinds of wonky studies on mammals, in the hopes of explaining humanity.

Back in the day, one of the experiments was to take a mammal (a cat) and suck out its cortex, and observe the subsequent behaviours.

Now, all mammals have "two brains." We have a cortex (the frontal, or "new brain" - you know, where they aimed the drill when they were giving you a lobotomy!) and we have a "reptillian brain" which is our "instinctual brain" and it exists at the top or our spine.

What these dastardly scientists discovered was, that you could stick a tube into the cortex (new brain) and suck out all of the contents (and still keep the animal - cats, in this case) and still keep the animal alive and functioning.

In humans, our "cortex" manages our ability of rational thought.

Our "reptillian brain" based near our spine, is our "instinctual brain."

The Dr Mengele'as discovered that one could strap a cat down, suck out its entire cortex (rational brain - cats are social creatures, like humans), and the reptillian brain was not affected one bit! As in, a cat who had somehow rationalized to itself to certain behaviours to exist in a society (of other cats), would lose ALL control of its social skills, BUT, if the reptillian brain remained intact, it would still act out its "sexual parade" and the cats of the opposite sex would respond to in the EXACT same manner as before - as in, the 'reptillian brain' has ENORMOUS powers over our cognitave brain.

There are two brains. The "cortex" (or, your rational brain - the one you think with) and the "reptillian brain" or, old brain (The one that makes you get an erection when your sister in law strips naked in front of you and asks you to screw her, despite all the ramifications).

Despite people's insistence that it is so, the reptillian, or instictual brain, still rules the cortex - or the rational brain.

This shows itself over and over in society!

We always justify our behaviours, don't we?

Yeah, yeah - blow it our your ass! We all operate on our own best interests. I don't care what kind of saint you make yourself out to be.

And so, while we do have the ability to "reason," our ability to reason is artificially manufactured by our sexual desires.

You don't REALLY like that hot chick because of her brain, do you? Certainly YOU are different from the other 300 guys showing up to court her nightly.

Lol! Screw you, liar!

You like her because she is hot! And then, you found reasons with your "rational brain" to justify why you should dedicate yourself to her... a really STUPID MOVE!

If you were thinking with your REAL rational brain, you would pick the 20lbs too heavy (but with nice tits) girl who really WOULD dedicate herself to YOUR vision of the future... but, such a girl doesn't intrigue you... you silly cat with no cortex!

No, you dedicate yourself to, who?

Yeah, nature vs. nurture.

Anyone who even uses the term "nature vs. nurture" is an idiot.

The evidence that the two are intricately intermeshed because of our biology is OVERWHELMING! Sadly, all of this info has been deemed "misogynist" and ignored. Yet, all of these predictions of these heretics are coming true at an alarming rate.

Nature vs. Nurture arguments make me just want to punch people.

Thanks for your time.

 

[jophil28]

Nature vs. Nurture arguments make me just want to punch people.

Yeah, it is an endless debate and the cause of the destruction of many fine dinner parties back in the 70s and 80s.
Take the Nature vs Nurture" debate, add a lot of wine and feed some spicey food and wine to a table of a dozen or so "humanities" know-it-alls and there ya go.
Their floudering promotions of "value free" philosophies was hilarious.
NO "value judgements" for the Class of '80 ...
However my point is NOT so much whether nature or nurture triumphs, it is that women (as do we all) have the CHOICE to act respectfully and with decency. They largely choose not to.

There is no question that survival drives us all. THe issue is HOW and what METHODS we used to guarantee it.Those of you who try to "explain" away woman's poor behavior from a propogation and survival POV are missing this point.
THere are acceptable ways - both legal and ethical to ensure health, wellbeing and survival .

 

[ketostix]

Anyone who even uses the term "nature vs. nurture" is an idiot.

The evidence that the two are intricately intermeshed because of our biology is OVERWHELMING! Sadly, all of this info has been deemed "misogynist" and ignored. Yet, all of these predictions of these heretics are coming true at an alarming rate.

Nature vs. Nurture arguments make me just want to punch people.

I think what people are saying about nurture (or enviroment/society) is, and it's backed up by experiments with identical twins, is that the higher brain structures can and do control one's behavior as well. If you put nothing in or crap into your higher cortex, then you are left with animalistic/reptilian behavior. The higher brain structures are there for a good reason. Humans aren't reptiles and wouldn't want to live life like one, humans aren't even cats either. The bottom line is, society (or nurture) is allowing women to essential act like low order animals or reptiles. And this is not good for anyone in the long run.

 

[STR8UP]

Those of you who try to "explain" away woman's poor behavior from a propogation and survival POV are missing this point.
THere are acceptable ways - both legal and ethical to ensure health, wellbeing and survival .

Your entire issue revolves around the premise that when I state that "nature trumps nurture" that I am trying to justify women's poor behavior, when I am doing nothing of the sort.

There is a difference between establishing WHY women behave as they do and JUSTIFYING said behavior.

Society allows women today a wide berth. Of course they are going to take it. They pushed and pushed and men caved. Now men are starting to wake up.

I'm the FIRST to call a woman out on poor behavior, but I don't bury my head in the sand and pretend that they are capable of making rational decisions much of the time because it is in their NATURE to be guided by their emotions. You can't blame a woman for being a woman any more than you can blame a cobra for trying to bite you when you touch it. There's a fine line between a woman "being a woman" and a woman taking advantage of the leeway she is given to be less than honorable. Women, by their nature are "less than honorable". Today's environment just makes it a bit more acceptable.

 

[guru1000]

If the reptilian brain is the stronger of the two than rape laws SHOULD not stop our instinctual drive to f* any women we feel is hot.

The hole in Fedder's argument is that these experiments were performed on animals. Yet the only thing that separates us from animals is our choice in spite of instinct.