Will there ever be a real Men's Rights Movement?

[betheman]

No man has ever accomplished anything worth mentioning on his own. You can't build a successful business without hiring employees; you can't become a president without getting the support of voters; and you sure as hell cannot win the battle against feminism by acting alone. Divided, we will be conquered.

who is this battle against? if each individual man, behaved like a man, there would be no need for any battle. its the 'behaving like a man' that most men have trouble with, dont settle, dont put up with cr@p, romove yourself from situations that dont benefit you, romoeve others from you who dont benefit you. current laws make that more difficult but the battle you speak of wont be won in court, on a battlefield but in homes and in the workplace

 

[wait_out]

Given equal rights by public institutions, men are going to be 2nd class citizens. The reason is that sex is a female controlled commodity, and that will not change. There is a multi-billion global sex trade that both male and female participate in which is pretty much proof of this; that is not an opinion, it is a fact. That is on top on discriminatory bias against men that will exist in other situations (like renting an apartment or getting car insurance). Women will leverage that to their advantage because it makes their life better; that's understandable.

Equal institutional rights don't favor men in a holistic sense and won't solve the confusion in the western world. But you cannot make women 2nd class citizens either to compensate. Without addressing what men deserve (equal sexual power?), this conversation is incomplete. The standard response from women is "you don't deserve SFA, my body my choice" -- which is NOT a humanist response because it's oppositional and doesn't consider the unhappiness of the guys who are losing out. We are at an impasse because instead of reaching out people are retrenching themselves into opposing camps based on gender and it is destined to fail both sides.

With all due respect, unless you have a solution to ration sexuality in a humane manner (which was monogamy), your inherent male ability to lift boxes or shiver in a trench longer than women isn't going to entitle you to sh!t; we live in our everyday world, and the Hobbesian state of nature or the past achievements of men hold little influence over anyone.

I don't necessarily see all these changes as positive; but I'm not going to fantasize about some kind of mythical balancing of the scales, which certain guys use as a pancea to avoid facing their own powerlessness. Of course men can do some things women can't; I'm in the infantry FFS. But the only way you are guaranteed to do well in the modern world is to outcompete other men, and that is not revolutionary. If you want to help other men, by all means talk about the collective; but if you want to improve your own life, you are better off thinking hard and dispassionately about yourself.

Your best option practically speaking, if you don't like western life, is to move away. And that is 100% valid. If you're unhappy, you need to make concrete changes -- vote with your feet. Why swim against the current? There is fighting the good fight and there is being a damn fool as WC Fields said.

 

[Burroughs]

legalized prostitution in all 50 states is something all men can unite and fight for.

It would be the most bolstering circumstance to mens rights.

It would drastically reduce the social leverage women have for free puzzy and is something all men should have access to at their leisure

It would change the game overnight...that is within 3-5 years.

 

[EastWind]

legalized prostitution in all 50 states is something all men can unite and fight for.

It would be the most bolstering circumstance to mens rights.

It would drastically reduce the social leverage women have for free puzzy and is something all men should have access to at their leisure

It would change the game overnight...that is within 3-5 years.

Sorry to disappoint you, but prostitution is perfectly legal in Germany (where prostitutes even pay into the public health insurance and retirement funds so they can benefit from them) and other European states, and there's not such a big difference.

At the very least, there's no "This woman is playing up? No worries, I'll just get a hooker to entertain me." mentality. The social stigma of "you can't get girls on your own, you need to pay them" is just as strong as in the states. I am well aware that a girlfriend/wife costs money as well, but the average Joe does not make that connection, as we all know.

Legalizing prostitution isn't the answer as long as getting a hooker at a reasonable, affordable price will not be an everyday thing.

I'm not saying this is the solution to men's problems, I was just discussing your argument. In fact I don't think it will solve anything much, since men will still want to have "the one" to bear their children for them and take care of them.

 

[Burroughs]

eastwind you make a good point

but you are talking europe...the european mentality is quite different from the american mentality.

america was built by people who left their respective countries to make a better life for themselves...sometimes at high cost....thats what makes american society so hardcore and money oriented and so great....we value success above all things

we consume things we innovate fries...shakes...burgers..ipods..and if legal..biyaches.

more than europe or asia americans will consume what is available to us in huge numbers... if prostitutes were legal...men would overcome social stigma and find a way to fvck without guilt.

at the very least we should have the option

 

[betheman]

The battle is against the system that makes men 2nd class citizens.

Not putting with $hit won't help you when you have a false rape accusation on your @ss. I don't know why people just don't get that. It's simple and it's easy to see.

You could be the greatest guy in the world and not tolerate any $hit. You could be alpha as fvk, but that means NOTHING against a false rape accusation. NOTHING.




Men are 2nd class citizens because we allow it, plain and simple.

Have self-respect and don't tolerate $hit. That is a solution we should all stand for.

But again, that doesn't mean fvk all against a false rape accusation.

People that swallow the red-pill are going to go in two directions. They will either meet and fvk a lot of women, or they are going to see the system for what it is and will want to fix it. Some may have the ability to do both.

I don't care which side they fall on, because either way they become part of the army that will fix this mess. For some reason, many of you are fixated on only one side of the coin and I consider that short-sighted.

Yeah, it's going to be hard, but that's why we are creating the army in the first place.

should we take up arms? what is the answer then?

 

[Bokanovsky]

who is this battle against? if each individual man, behaved like a man, there would be no need for any battle. its the 'behaving like a man' that most men have trouble with, dont settle, dont put up with cr@p, romove yourself from situations that dont benefit you, romoeve others from you who dont benefit you. current laws make that more difficult but the battle you speak of wont be won in court, on a battlefield but in homes and in the workplace

For starters, laws that discriminate against men. Let's say you get falsely accused of sexual harassment. Or get passed over for a job because of affirmative action. Or your wife divorces you and gets custody of the kids (and not to mention, robs you blind). How do you prevent it by "behaving like a man"?

 

[betheman]

For starters, laws that discriminate against men. Let's say you get falsely accused of sexual harassment. Or get passed over for a job because of affirmative action. Or your wife divorces you and gets custody of the kids (and not to mention, robs you blind). How do you prevent it by "behaving like a man"?

youre preaching to the f ccking converted, what you going to do about it? b!tch ona forum?

 

[Jitterbug]

eastwind you make a good point

but you are talking europe...the european mentality is quite different from the american mentality.

america was built by people who left their respective countries to make a better life for themselves...sometimes at high cost....thats what makes american society so hardcore and money oriented and so great....we value success above all things

we consume things we innovate fries...shakes...burgers..ipods..and if legal..biyaches.

more than europe or asia americans will consume what is available to us in huge numbers... if prostitutes were legal...men would overcome social stigma and find a way to fvck without guilt.

at the very least we should have the option

Your argument sounds logical. However, in reality it may not work that way. Australia is very similar to America in that regard, and prostitution is legal here just like in Europe, yet the social stigma is strong enough that it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[Burroughs]

Your argument sounds logical. However, in reality it may not work that way. Australia is very similar to America in that regard, and prostitution is legal here just like in Europe, yet the social stigma is strong enough that it makes no difference whatsoever.

this is a worthy argument and no way set in stone

the masses of men might already be too far gone…shamed by the faggots and femcvnts into denying their own impulses

but i say perhaps not…look at all the silly consumer stuff that makes billions in the us economy…surely some entrepreneurs can do the same with puzzy

look at the masses of 50% divorced and mgtow dudes…plus all the unemployed young women…people may be on the verge for not giving a fvck.

 

[Jitterbug]

Legalisation doesn't mean sh1t, mate. It's the social stigma. You don't need legalisation to use the sex services. Legalisation only makes it safer from a health perspective.

Prostitution is illegal in South East and East Asia, for example, but there is zero social stigma for men to use it (only social shame for the prostitutes). It's quite common for men when chatting over a beer to discuss which massage parlours and beer gardens have the best girls, and older wives often encourage their still randy husbands to go to the wh0re house (they are against mistresses though). The effect it has on male-female relations is the complete opposite of a country like Australia where it's legal but socially unacceptable.

 

[Burroughs]

So let me ask you this Jitterbug

seeing as prostitution is legal in australia...and you say men have not flocked to it because of social shaming and stigma

what would it take to dismantle that shaming?

is it possible given the entrenchment of stigma?

are there other factors at play?

are australian men even interested in taking those steps?

what pushback would come from feminists etc?

are men simply too wimpy to do it?

your thoughts would be most welcome.

posted by (.)(.) What kept beta's getting up of a morning and running civilization was the promise of a nice faithful wifey waiting for him at home and a family. That's obviously gone the way of the dodo now so what incentive is left for these men to strive for excellence and keep sh!t running? Nothing.


Making prostitution a national pastime would at least keep the wheels from falling off and have a knock on effect of taking the lions share of power back from Western women which in turn I bet means an end to all the femcentric bullsh!t contributing to the collapse, endless immigration, credentialism, OH&S obsession, ceaseless regulations etc etc.

yes 100%

 

[( . )( . )]

legalized prostitution in all 50 states is something all men can unite and fight for.

Not just legalized it has to be socially encouraged.

There's no denying once the middle to upper working class is no longer driven we are fvcked. And who are the backbone of the middle to upper working class? Beta males.

What kept beta's getting up of a morning and running civilization was the promise of a nice faithful wifey waiting for him at home and a family. That's obviously gone the way of the dodo now so what incentive is left for these men to strive for excellence and keep sh!t running? Nothing.

Making prostitution a national pastime would at least keep the wheels from falling off and have a knock on effect of taking the lions share of power back from Western women which in turn I bet means an end to all the femcentric bullsh!t contributing to the collapse, endless immigration, credentialism, OH&S obsession, ceaseless regulations etc etc.

The other big solution which I've seen Roissy and a few others talking about is seeing an end to single motherhood and the current glorification and government encouragement of it= Cease all welfare and make it fashionable again to publicly shame, I dare say shaming wouldn't even be needed, cutting out funding would be plenty enough to see the problem almost disappear entirely. Beta's become viable once again and keeping these guys happy is in everyone's best interest if we wish to stay first world.

 

[wait_out]

Danger I'm surprised how even-handed you are in this thread. So I just want to commend you for that.

I wonder how many of you have read Brave New World -- dystopian future written by Aldous Huxley. At the time it was supposedly horrific but I suspect a lot of malcontents in today's society might be happier living that way. Refusing sex is a social faux-pas and there is no social stigma... of course it means decoupling sex from reproduction. We are already there.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/p...-is-a-policy-straight-out-of-brave-new-world/

What kept beta's getting up of a morning and running civilization was the promise of a nice faithful wifey waiting for him at home and a family. That's obviously gone the way of the dodo now so what incentive is left for these men to strive for excellence and keep sh!t running? Nothing.

I think it went more the way of the brontosaurus, in that it never actually existed. Second, that's pitiful. Organizing your whole life around your "nice faithful wifey"... where is this guy's independent desires and self-respect? There is nothing wrong with devoting yourself to love and family, there is everything wrong with finding no value in life if you don't have some woman to prostrate yourself before. That's not just "beta", that's codependency. Does life have no value if you don't have some woman to validate it for you? Come on.

Maybe you're talking about a hypothetical beta and not projecting your own desires forward, but I find it hard to believe guys were such chumps even back then. The guy you wrote about in the paragraph above would have been a sucker now, in the 50's, in the 30's, and in a nomadic herder tribe. Cheating and betrayal is not the fault of feminism, it is just part of human nature. Even Kuchi women living in tents would find ways to get busy. If you know anything about women does this really surprise you? It's not new.

http://thetincocoon.blogspot.ca/2010/03/rabia-balkhi.html

This aspect of the manosphere is embarassing... behind all the negativity and misogyny you find some insecure dude pining away for a fantasy of a white-picket fence domestic life and matching perfect wife. Life was never that simple outside of TV sitcoms.

You prefer a world of "gender" benders "making social chaos their playground." I don't. That says it all.

It's not about the world I prefer to live in, it's about the world I do live in. No doubt there is work to be done (like preserving "innocent before proven guilty" -- the foundation of western justice -- in he said/she said rape cases), but that is totally different than railing against "the system" in a generalized manner. For a bunch of guys who live by the mantra "where pretty lies die", Roissy fans and co. are remarkably bad at looking at their own fvcked-up ideas. The pedestal has two sides, women are angels or devilish wh0res, that's splitting/B&W thinking and common in personality disorders.

There is a lot of fvcked up sh!t in western culture to be addressed, but the manosphere wall of noise makes intelligent discussion pretty rare -- you simply get the most passionate banging their one drum with more and more urgency. Honestly I think being on the net and absorbing too much of this can fvck you up... you need real life to show you it's never as simple as you think. You guys can rail on and on about the c0ck carousel, I had dinner with a girl last night (20's) who later confessed it was her first time later. I was surprised but it happens. I'm not special, l mostly stayed home this week playing STALKER. Life is just full of exceptions and surprises and they will find you eventually.

To go back to the OPs question:

Will there ever be a real Men's Rights Movement?

For certain concrete rights like legal protections, better paternity decisions, sensible 21st century alimony, yes. That's important.

For generalized frustration -- "women are wh0res, there's a stigma against prostitution, I married a slut and didn't realize until later"... probably not. That's an emotional reaction to our modern lives, every man has to deal with ON HIS OWN. Internet support groups (cough cough) notwithstanding.

 

[wait_out]

I don't know that there's an answer to social shaming of prostitution other than to tell society to Fvk off. The irony being that if you have the balls to do it, you wouldn't need a prostitute anyways.

Golden

 

[Who Dares Win]

I don't know that there's an answer to social shaming of prostitution other than to tell society to Fvk off. The irony being that if you have the balls to do it, you wouldn't need a prostitute anyways.

You are the uncle any kid should have.

 

[Boilermaker]

The irony being that if you have the balls to do it, you wouldn't need a prostitute anyways.

!!

Double exclam, a brilliancy.

 

[( . )( . )]

Danger I got to tell you mate your like the logic crusader, how you have the patience to keep on calmly shutting down the few faggy lifelong loser libtards with common sense we have here is beyond me. Your an asset.

I think it went more the way of the brontosaurus, in that it never actually existed. Second, that's pitiful.

Of course it existed you donkey. Did you just forget unleashed hypergamy has only been a social norm for the past four decades? Whether beta males being driven by the prospect of wife and family upsets your sensibilities or not is irrelevant, it's how it was for centuries. As much as women and society in general now despises them we need them, and we need them to have a reason to get out of bed every morning to build and invent if your not a big fan of the Liberian lifestyle.

 

[wait_out]

Did you just forget unleashed hypergamy has only been a social norm for the past four decades?

Women have cheated on solid guys since the dawn of time. If you are a chump you would have gotten tooled on even way back when.

As much as women and society in general now despises them we need them, and we need them to have a reason to get out of bed every morning to build and invent if your not a big fan of the Liberian lifestyle.

That's an opinion. Life will go on whether beta males decide to participate or not... managers will either hire women, or capable men who want a nice house, nice car, and decent lifestyle even if they don't have a 1950's time machine. If you want to opt out of society -- you are mostly going to hurt yourself. Thinking, "I won't go to work, they'll be sorry" is laughable in its immaturity. At the end, of the day most men are replaceable to everyone except to their loved ones.

I don't know if you've ever considered starting your own business -- but what concerns me is ridiculous operating costs and taxation, byzantine regulations, and corruption. The fact that I might have a slvt wife? Didn't think about that one. Frankly it seems like an excuse to sit on your ass and beg out from being responsible for your own happiness. But hey if talking sh!t on the internet floats your boat, who am I to stop you. You won't convince me by yammering on about every talking point in your manosphere echo chamber though -- either provide links or cut the conversation here like an adult. You aren't providing solid arguments, and I think you have something emotional wrapped up in your conclusions. This is a waste of time for both of us.

 

[( . )( . )]

Women have cheated on solid guys since the dawn of time. If you are a chump you would have gotten tooled on even way back when.

Nice strawman.

That has nothing to do with beta males being viable options and valuable in the past compared to today and your still trying to push the idea that c@ck carouselling encouragement / unrestrained hypergamy without social stigma has been around for longer than 4 or so decades. It hasn't.

The rest of your post is just more convoluted bullsh!t.