Why the Knock on Providers?

[Todd Preston]

What's different?

I would trust my dog to
-never leave me for another master,
-nor would he put my in the poor house by hiring some nasty divorce lawyer,
-nor would he cheat on me by giving his heart to another master.

With the female homosapien species, you are dealing with a cunning animal that has been groomed to attract and hold captive a male. This can lead to all kinds of vulnerabilities.

The worse thing your Dog will do is bite you (but that's usually only when they get old and need to be put down).

Comparing a Man's Best Friend to a Female homosapien is just not fair...and quite frankly is offensive to any Dog to be compared with such.

If you like your dog then naturally you will feed him, make him walk the park, play with him....take care of the him etc

If you like something, then the providing things comes naturally, you don't think if you are a puppet or something....this the natural "response"....

Why wouldn't it be different with women ?

 

[Todd Preston]

If you really feel this way, then hide your assets while you are dating her. This way, you will see how she really feels about the REAL YOU.

Most men use money to BUY their way into a woman's heart.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with money, or using it to get a women.

BUT, don't deceive yourself (or try to get us to buy into your fallacious argument). Women who are looking for men with money, are doing so because they want to be wined, dined and pampered.

If this is the type of woman that you are looking for then pick her up in the fanciest car you can find, park it in front of the biggest house you can swing, take her shopping every weekend, take out to diner every other night, take her on fancy vacations every month.

This is the same that a prostitute looks for....THE HIGHEST BIDDER.

...not the type of woman that i am looking for.

Here is another perspective. Let's say I have done well in life. I went to school, educated myself and have a great career. I earned it and paid for it. My dues so to speak. Many men IMO, who have achieved social and financial status, display the same traits in business and in their personal lives that they utilize with women. In other words, to rise to a high level in business, don't you have to have "game" there as well? I think many of the same principals apply.

 

[5string]

If you really feel this way, then hide your assets while you are dating her. This way, you will see how she really feels about the REAL YOU.

Most men use money to BUY their way into a woman's heart.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with money, or using it to get a women.

BUT, don't deceive yourself (or try to get us to buy into your fallacious argument). Women who are looking for men with money, are doing so because they want to be wined, dined and pampered.

If this is the type of woman that you are looking for then pick her up in the fanciest car you can find, park it in front of the biggest house you can swing, take her shopping every weekend, take out to diner every other night, take her on fancy vacations every month.

This is the same that a prostitute looks for....THE HIGHEST BIDDER.

...not the type of woman that i am looking for.

Not the type of woman I am looking for either Todd. Maybe you missed the point I was trying to make. That being men who have achieved socially and financially, I think, had "game", and used it to achieve their goals in life, and also use some of the same "game" when attracting women. I agree with you that women who are after money, have only a desire for the benefits of money. Not for the man himself. My wife never knew my true financial status until after we were married by the way. I have done well, but drive a PU truck and my wife shops alot at the dollar store and is forever saving coupons so she can save a buck or two when shopping. She likes to live well, but as you can see, she did not marry me for money....

 

[backbreaker]

Again so hypocritical.


you are so afraid of a woman liking you "for your money"

We have an entire health and fitness forum, and half the threads here on this forum are about good looking/ bad looking DJ

I'm a pretty good looking guy. Am I supposed to feel bad for all the women who dated me not for " who i am" but becuase i was somewhat hot to them?

**** no. becuase my looks are apart of my entire package.

the same with your financial situation

it's not THE package, but rather you like it or not, it counts for something

the smart, funny, drop dead gorgeous women who is down to earth at the same time because she was an ugly duckling, wi no baggage, does not overlook you becuase you are broke, she overlooks you because ALL HER ****ING OPTIONS HAVE MONEY. Everyone wants her.

And let's put the cards on the table. people who are broke, generally 1. are somewhat lazy to an extent 2. are not as well educated or well read 3. arent' ambitious 4. have no real plans for the future

yes, i'm supposed to want to shack up with that right now!


you know this isn't that far off of the other argument i hear all the time.. the black guy that hates you (me) becuase you aren't' stupid. The guy who thinks that becuase you dont' date or won't date the neighborhood pump down on the corner and you have options..some of them with women outside your race.. you can pick up a book and read from time to time, you don't wear your clothes half way down your ass.. that you "sold out".

being successful, giving a **** about your future, not wanting to wake up and wonder how bills are going to get paid.. saying "you know what.. let's go to hawaii".. and being able to do it.. going to a car lot and not just window shopping.. but shopping shopping, when you get someone you like, being able to actually take her out from time to time, not cringing whenever someone runs your credit, having a savings account... WITH MONEY IN IT!!...... these things do not equate you to being a sale out or an AFC regardless of how much mystery may tell you so.

 

[zekko]

Jonwon said: Simply because when or if you go
Through a bad spell, you can pretty much
Guarantee she's gone.

That's assuming she's only attracted to
you for the money though. But regardless,
the bad boy doesn't get to keep the girl
either. Look at Sandra Bullock. In fact,
you could argue Jesse James was both the
the successful guy and the bad boy, and he
still didn't keep the girl.

Fact is, in most cases a relationship
doesn't last forever. If you enter into
a LTR, you're better off understanding that
going in.

 

[Lexington]

Jesse Jackson lost Sandra Bullock because he was off fvcking other women. Most men would lose their women if they did the same thing regardless of whether they were "bad boys" or not.

No one has a problem with being successful or even with providing for women. When most people here are referring to "the provider" they are talking about a guy who brings nothing else to the table but the ability to provide for a woman. Women settle for these kinds of men, but it's not what they dream about.

Obviously, you should aspire to be the complete package. You should have the ability to make a woman's gina tickle and you should also be able to provide for her. If you turn her on but you're not successful, your LTR will fail. If all you can do is provide for her, she will lust after other men and there's a good chance she'll cheat on you. At the very least, she'll walk all over you.

Of course, not everyone here is looking for an LTR. Many guys are just looking to get laid and if that's what they want, they should by all means pursue it.

 

[Duffdog]

Jesse Jackson lost Sandra Bullock because he was off fvcking other women. Most men would lose their women if they did the same thing regardless of whether they were "bad boys" or not.

Yes, most men would lose their woman. Those men are what you call providers. The ones who get to do whatever they want and make the girl take it are what you call "bad boys"...

This is the distinction everyone is looking for. A "bad boy" doesn't need to care because regardless of his behavior, the girl has to be ok with it or she gets ditched. He could be rich, poor-- whatever, the fact that he is not held responsible for any action he makes by his current mate is the defining characteristic of a non-provider. A provider does not have this option. If he screws up by failing to provide, she is gone.

Thus, he NEEDS to provide to maintain his attractiveness. Bad boys do not-- most of the time, its the girl who ends up being the provider.

By the way, you meant Jessie James...right?

 

[backbreaker]

some guys are starting to get a distorted since of reality when it comes to women

no self respecting woman is going ti put up with a guy ****ing antoher woman while they are married. "bad boy", "provider" or whatever.

my father is not a provider in the sense that you guys are trying to make him out ot be. he didn't cake to women and is one of the most DJ men I know, and the second my mother found out he was ****ing someone she ran to the court house. she later tould me she would rather be single for the rest of her life than to be disrespected like that.

the women who DO.. while you are MARRIED are of low self esteem that real men want no part of anyway

lol, my gosh

 

[Todd Preston]

Thank you 5 string for the clarification...Glad you are happy with your wife and congratulations on finding a good one....you are a minority. I encourage you to keep it going for as long as you can.

One thing i am curious about is this;
"How do you equate being successful in business with being successful with women?"

~TP

Not the type of woman I am looking for either Todd. Maybe you missed the point I was trying to make. That being men who have achieved socially and financially, I think, had "game", and used it to achieve their goals in life, and also use some of the same "game" when attracting women. I agree with you that women who are after money, have only a desire for the benefits of money. Not for the man himself. My wife never knew my true financial status until after we were married by the way. I have done well, but drive a PU truck and my wife shops alot at the dollar store and is forever saving coupons so she can save a buck or two when shopping. She likes to live well, but as you can see, she did not marry me for money....

 

[Lexington]

At the end of the day, many women are not even looking for providers anymore. Things might be a little different for the older guys, but most young women can provide for themselves these days. There are more women enrolled in college than there are men. Women are earning more degrees. Hell there are more women than men enrolling in med school these days.

Most intelligent, motivated women today can probably do fine for themselves. The days when women needed to land a successful husband in order to have the good life are over. You're going to have to bring much more to the table than the ability to provide.

 

[zekko]

Jesse Jackson lost Sandra Bullock because he was off fvcking other women. Most men would lose their women if they did the same thing regardless of whether they were "bad boys" or not.

But isn't that exactly what the bad boy does? Cheat? Bullock should have known better that you don't marry the bad boy.

Of course, not everyone here is looking for an LTR. Many guys are just looking to get laid and if that's what they want, they should by all means pursue it.

I've certainly been there so I can't disagree, and at your age that's most likely just what you should be doing. But at some point in a guy's life, if he doesn't ever form some sort of deeper bond with a woman, I would have to think that guy is probably pretty shallow.

no self respecting woman is going ti put up with a guy ****ing antoher woman while they are married. "bad boy", "provider" or whatever.

Wow is that true. I can't imagine that any woman who would put up with such a thing would be worth anything herself. I certainly wouldn't respect her.

Most intelligent, motivated women today can probably do fine for themselves.

Yet to hear many people on this forum talk about women, they are little more than moronic creatures who only run on emotion. You would not think they have any sort of intelligence at all.

The days when women needed to land a successful husband in order to have the good life are over.

With the way things are today, there are a lot of people who need to have two incomes to survive, let alone live a decent lifestyle.

You're going to have to bring much more to the table than the ability to provide.

As you pointed out earlier, it's always best to be the complete package.

 

[Tazman]

Most intelligent, motivated women today can probably do fine for themselves. The days when women needed to land a successful husband in order to have the good life are over. You're going to have to bring much more to the table than the ability to provide.

Well, maybe the intelligent, "motivated" women, but how many women do you know, that went to college, actually used their degree to enter a career, and pursue it long enough to make a good living they could sustain on their own?

I know plenty of women who went to college, even a few with masters, and what are they doing now?

Working low paying 9 to 5s in a nice, cushy office cubicle. Some are simple secretaries, others could potentially make good money but don't feel like putting in the effort to do so.

They care more about vacation and comfort than furthering their careers or making higher pay, but they will gladly display their Alma Mater bumper stickers for all to see, believing that the degree itself gives them elevated status.

Don't believe the hype.

 

[5string]

Thank you 5 string for the clarification...Glad you are happy with your wife and congratulations on finding a good one....you are a minority. I encourage you to keep it going for as long as you can.

One thing i am curious about is this;
"How do you equate being successful in business with being successful with women?"

~TP

Todd, I will answer your question. To be successful in business, most have to be confident, have the ability to communicate well and have a "presence" that literally demands attention. You have to be able to control the frame in business to be able to "close the deal" to your advantage. I think you need these abilities, as well as many others, to get the job done when it comes to women. That would be the short version.

 

[Todd Preston]

Gotcha Bid Dawg...thanks!

Todd, I will answer your question. To be successful in business, most have to be confident, have the ability to communicate well and have a "presence" that literally demands attention. You have to be able to control the frame in business to be able to "close the deal" to your advantage. I think you need these abilities, as well as many others, to get the job done when it comes to women. That would be the short version.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The difference between provider and chump is the way that a woman treats you when things are not going well. You never really know until it happens.

 

[pipeman84]

I think women seeing men as providers (ATM machines) it's the same thing as men seeing women just as sex objects and that's a very bad basis to start a relationship on.

The other thing I would ask is if women want to marry provider types but have a short term fling with the bad boy, isn't it a greater compliment to be considereed a provider? You may just want the quick sex but from the girl's point of view, wouldn't a guy they want to marry be higher value in their eyes than a guy they would only want a one night stand with?

Are you asking this question in earnest? How is it a compliment for a man when his woman sees him just as a money mule? That's basically what a beta provider is. An alpha provider on the other hand shares his resources with the woman, but the woman doesn't stay with him because of those resources. His business could go bust or he could lose his job and the woman would faithfully stay by his side...perhaps picking some extra work to help out whereas the wife of the beta provider will start berating him and be b!tchy and monkey branch as soon as she gets the chance.

As many know, I'm married. There have been a number of times when my wifes female friends come over. They take one look at the house, ask her what I do for a living and say sh!t like "he's a keeper, you scored, wow, I can't belive you live here, if you don't want him anymore, CALL ME", etc. A guys social/economic status creates desire in women. They all, at some point, want this type of guy for a LTR. Lot's of these women hit on me. Sometimes right in front of the wife.

^^ You know those Tom&Jerry cartoons when depending on the situation one character sees some other character as a tasty steak or a bag with the $ sign on it ---> that's how those women see you. If I were you, I'd be concerned with my wife hanging out with such obvious gold digging b!tches.

 

[Stoic]

I earn a far above average income. It has always helped and not hurt me with women.

But, if you earn a high income and have built some wealth, you need to carry a certain attitude with it. You need to be shrewd and savvy with money. Be generous and not petty with women that deserve it and be shrewd with it with women that appear to be gold diggers. Usually, it's easy to tell the difference if you take the time to vet a woman.

It's not a sin for a woman to want you at least in part because you've achieved some career and financial success and achievement. Just like it's not a sin for men to want women primarily because of their looks.

 

[SW15]

I don't think perceptions of providers have changed much since this thread in 2010. In fact, the perceptions of providers have probably gotten worse.

the perspective of the beta provider vs. the alpha provider......The trick that eludes most guys is balancing being a good Cad with being a good Dad.

It is entirely possible to be an Alpha provider, in fact that's more or less the feminine ideal. However well this works from an LTR perspective, it does little to create the excitement a woman craves when you're in the first stages of attraction and dating non-exclusively. Having the means to be a good provider (i.e. money, dependability, empathy, etc.) is certainly a consideration for the long term, it takes a back seat to the excitement, uncertainty and passion the bad boy offers. Women will seriously consider marrying the banker while they're ƒucking the rockstar, but in a perfect world they want a rockstar-banker. Women are hypergamous, they want the best mating deal their looks will afford them.

I agree with @Rollo Tomassi that it's possible to be an Alpha provider. Like betas in general, an Alpha provider would be better suited for LTRs with a social circle. I agree that the Alpha provider type isn't the most exciting type of guys, which will make his outcomes in app swiping and stranger approaching worse. The lack of excitement in the early stages can lead to a fair amount of ghosting prior to 2nd or 3rd dates. The lack of excitement wouldn't also lead to 1st date sex. Social circle would work better for the Alpha provider due to the fact that social circles allow for longer and fairer looks. Women reserve their best early stage behaviors for social circle met men. In app swiping and cold approaching, the worst behaviors from women come out. Women's friends are never informed when they treat men from apps or cold approaches like shiit. However, if a woman acts rude from a social circle interaction, her friends/acquaintances will know about it, so that moderates her behaviors. That moderated behavior tends to favor an Alpha provider and even some beta males.

The big problem with social circle as a method is that it tends to force a man into more beta/blue pill behaviors. In the medium to long term, social circles tend to get pissed with serial monogamist men who tend to change girlfriends every 1-3 years with no babies or marriage. Social circles also tend to get pissed with player-type men who change girlfriends in less than one year. It's possible to run Alpha provider type game and do serial monogamist type behavior.

I earn a far above average income. It has always helped and not hurt me with women.

But, if you earn a high income and have built some wealth, you need to carry a certain attitude with it. You need to be shrewd and savvy with money. Be generous and not petty with women that deserve it and be shrewd with it with women that appear to be gold diggers. Usually, it's easy to tell the difference if you take the time to vet a woman.

There is a notion that women in their 30s/40s tend to be provider hunters (see 2013 article below). As a late 30s man who has dated women in their 30s, I've not seen more provider hunting type behavior among women in their 30s. However, I've avoided interactions with 30 something single moms. My avoidance of single moms has likely reduced the possibility of me dealing with provider hunters. Never married, childless White women in their 30s tend to have decent careers and not much of a need for a provider. Additionally, my own career achievements are lackluster to mediocre. While I have an income above the median due to having an MBA, my salary isn't considered spectacular for my age. Most professional, childless women earn close to what I earn. Therefore, they have no need for a provider type guy.

Provider Hunters - Alpha Male 2.0

Per the glossary, the definition of “provider hunting” is: A phase a woman goes through, usually when she’s over the age of 27 (but can happen at all ages) where she seeks to settle down with a beta, now preferring the perceived stability and compliance...

alphamale20.com

 

[pipeman84]

So if a man is well financially, has game, a good physique, has interesting things to do, charming, isn't that what an Alpha Provider is? Just because he has money he's in the beta provider category? So you have to be one at the expense of the other? There's no common ground? Black or white thinking?

If the girl stays with him because he pays for weekend trips out of town and every few months for trips to some tourist attraction/seaside whatever (that she then posts on IG) and she takes her to expensive restaurants and so on, then he's a beta in my view. You can be well off and not enjoy spending money that way...maybe you like to invest it in the stock market, or save it to purchase a home....if the girl is happy being with you while taking a walk in the local park and cooking dinner in your kitchen, then you're alpha. An alpha makes sure the girl is with him for him, not for his money...just as a quality girl makes sure the guy is with her for her, not just for access to the box.

 

[pipeman84]

So what happens if a girls enjoys those trips and cooks dinner for me? Cleans the house from time to time without me asking and pays on dates too?. It isn't that considered the whole package for a girl? A good looking man, with exciting things to do and financially well? Is that so rare today? A well financially guy, good looking with an exciting life?

Nothing wrong with a girl enjoying trips as long as she pays her share. If she starts giving you sh!t that although you could afford it, you don't take her to the various places where IG h*es go...then alarm bells should go off.