Why male online spaces are so toxic.

[Jesse Pinkman]

There have been a couple of threads on how toxic male dating advice is going around so much and how toxic a lot of male dating spaces have become. There are many reasons we can point to for this such as society going in the direction it is and gender relations in general. However, I wanted to point to a reason we can all control and why toxicity is so addicting as well as tough to stop in a community.

MGTOW, Black Pill, etc.

At some point, the Red Pill which was meant for Sexual Strategy took on the "forget women period and focus on your life mission" approach. The problem is, it was not a very genuine one. Here is a bit of a newsflash, if you spend a good chunk of your day talking about how awful women are, how screwed up gender relations are, and how women are the devil, you are still putting "p*ssy on the pedestal" because you cannot get it off your mind. In fact, I'd argue that it is even worse than PUA because at least with PUA, you are going out there and actually talking to girls.

A lot of the Red Pill basically became an echo chamber where men could find community in b1tching about women without having to ever interact with one. However, they labeled themselves as not valuing women, despite the fact that most of their discussions revolve around women..........

In reality, it is addicting.

I have done it and in the moment it felt like a relief. I have wanted to talk about how bad women of certain nationalities or backgrounds are and in the moment, it felt great. It felt like a nice letting go when I could rant about how awful certain kinds of women were and get a lot of men to agree with me. That community you get of like-minded men who hate women or things about the sexual market place makes these men feel a feeling they are not too familiar with, one of finally belonging. In the short-term, it is far more addicting to spit out a red pill theory, get a lot of upvotes, a lot of likes, and a lot of compliments from your fellow men on the internet than do the hard work.

"Game" is hard and we don't say it enough.

Going out there and talking to girls you do not know is tough. Rejection is very much real and a lot of women will even be mean about it. Getting in the gym, getting a nice body, and being disciplined for months if not years about that is tough. Talking to multiple women a night and going on even when you have been rejected is tough.

PUA misled everyone, it is tough as nails to be a guy who consistently has different women with above average looks in his life. The amount of work you have to do is unreal as a man. Then to realize that there is no one on your side and society will fight tooth and nail to stop you from going after your dream of meeting hot girls is also disheartening.

You need to be a mentally and emotionally strong guy to really pull it off.

I have seen so many dudes cold approach for a bit and then quit because of how tough it actually was.

More importantly, you have to put your ego on the line and most men won't do that. You have to go out there, get humiliated, and keep doing it until you get results (obviously fixing things each time). You have to make yourself vulnerable as a guy as opposed to feeling that safety of community you'd get on an internet forum or a black pill space.

Meanwhile, theorizing and mentally masturbating are fun and addicting.

They are fun, they are addicting, and they lead to short-term happiness. It is fun to talk $hit about women. That is why the black pill has become so popular and its spread is practically inevitable.

 

[member160292]

Ego

 

[Modern Man Advice]

Couldn't agree more. It is the reason I am selective about what men I coach, what posts I comment on, what comments I respond to, what I say and when I speak, etc.

In my experience and perspective, there are two different types of males that interact in forums like this: The ones that genuinely want to become better men and the ones that say they want to be better men but just want to get laid more and feel "alpha" but deep down are frustrated and jaded.

Young men (and men in general) have to be really selective about what information they consume. We live in an "informational" age that for better or worse is slowly suffocating us.

 

[BadBoy89]

"Game" is hard and we don't say it enough.

Going out there and talking to girls you do not know is tough. Rejection is very much real and a lot of women will even be mean about it. Getting in the gym, getting a nice body, and being disciplined for months if not years about that is tough. Talking to multiple women a night and going on even when you have been rejected is tough.

The only part that’s “tough” is going to the gym. Talking to young women is easy. It’s Sexy. Talking to older women is tough.

I have seen so many dudes cold approach for a bit and then quit because of how tough it actually was.

You just can’t cold approach a hot girl in the street. They know you want something and their guard would be up. Heck, Ive had 9/10 hot girl approach me in the street and start chatting me up. I was so attracted, but my guard was way up. This with a HB 9/10. Imagine how a girl would feel.

More importantly, you have to put your ego on the line and most men won't do that. You have to go out there, get humiliated, and keep doing it until you get results (obviously fixing things each time). You have to make yourself vulnerable as a guy as opposed to feeling that safety of community you'd get on an internet forum or a black pill space.

They are fun, they are addicting, and they lead to short-term happiness. It is fun to talk $hit about women. That is why the black pill has become so popular and its spread is practically inevitable.

Don’t agree.

The problem is men don’t see the effort worth the return on investment with non virgin women. They want results and they want results fast.

It’s not ”fun” to bvtch about women. It’s a lot more fun to go out with them, kiss them, have sex with them. Just as long as it happens quickly.

 

[Stanley]

"Our ego is our silent partner-too often with a controlling interest."
-Cullen Hightower

 

[threeforfree]

I'm older so I'm not driven by desperate hormones like younger guys, though I'm still VERY active.

I agree that it can be toxic... but what I gain from this space is seeing general female nature explained in hard terms. Recognizing their true nature and susceptibilities has made me a lot better. I realize my failings from before, have turned those around, and have been doing a lot better... including with some women that I had previously did some blue-pill missteps with before turning to this space. My behavior adjustments have definitely resulted in behavior adjustments on their part as well, for the better.

I date enough to always have options... if one wants to drop off there are others. And the girls just happen, as long as I do my part.

It's important to keep yourself as the top priority, and make yourself into the best version of yourself you can possibly be. I'm not slowing down... I'm doubling down on my efforts to "win." The women are free to join me... but I recognize their tendencies, and I don't let it get to me.

"Sometimes, these women are so easy...
Sometimes, these women are so cold.
Sometimes, these women seem to rip you right in two,
Only if you let 'em get to you."
-Guns N' Roses

 

[Kotaix]

The book of Pook is a perfect example of excellent PUA/redpill content. One book that is meant to help his fellow man and is available for free.

With the exception of Aaron Clearey and Rich Cooper, I find almost all redpill youtuber/podcasters to be running something equivalent to OnlyFans, except for redpill rage. They've already beat the content to death. Now they're doing it for money and they're doing more harm than good.

Ego is going to be the downfall of western civilization. Nietsche called it over 150 years ago.

 

[SW15]

"Game" is hard and we don't say it enough.

Going out there and talking to girls you do not know is tough. Rejection is very much real and a lot of women will even be mean about it. Getting in the gym, getting a nice body, and being disciplined for months if not years about that is tough. Talking to multiple women a night and going on even when you have been rejected is tough.

PUA misled everyone, it is tough as nails to be a guy who consistently has different women with above average looks in his life. The amount of work you have to do is unreal as a man. Then to realize that there is no one on your side and society will fight tooth and nail to stop you from going after your dream of meeting hot girls is also disheartening.

You need to be a mentally and emotionally strong guy to really pull it off.

I have seen so many dudes cold approach for a bit and then quit because of how tough it actually was.

More importantly, you have to put your ego on the line and most men won't do that. You have to go out there, get humiliated, and keep doing it until you get results (obviously fixing things each time). You have to make yourself vulnerable as a guy as opposed to feeling that safety of community you'd get on an internet forum or a black pill space.

Neil Strauss was an outlier guy and not a normal guy. Most men do not have a lot of success when they try to learn "Game".

 

[zekko]

I always thought even the old Red Pill PUA stuff came across as negative. Seemed like most of it was always about pushing the girl away (sometimes literally). Don't give attention to your target, don't look at your target, turn the other way and only talk to your target over your shoulder, talk about how hot other girls are, "neg" your target, etc. etc. There's no real interaction there. Seems like if you take it to its natural conclusion, you would never get together with her at all.

The new stuff, the blackpill and MGTOW stuff, is so depressing that it almost convinces me no chick would ever even look at me, and I have a girlfriend.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Imo there's a difference between b1tching and informing. Discussing the general odds of success various ethnicities provide, for example, is an instance of informing.

The line can get blurred though.

 

[TheManMasenko]

A wise man once said nothing at all.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Hmmm I mean isn’t this like an ER Doctor complaining that his work place has nothing but sick people?

 

[Ricky]

I did the best when i loved women and let them know it comes across as sexual charisma. David D had it right…

 

[DonJuanjr]

I did the best when i loved women and let them know it comes across as sexual charisma.

Care to elaborate?

 

[characternote]

keep doing it until you get results (obviously fixing things each time)

I don't think it's a matter of 'fixing' things. You'll never know what or if you actually done anything 'wrong'.
Most likely (almost certainly) the rejection was out of your control. You just werent her type. She wasn't attracted to you. This is why we see the 'professional PUA's have 'rejection compilations' as long as their arms in their premium products.

But as someone who is somewhat 'blackpilled' but who also approaches a lot, has a decent lay count, and loves the game, I agree with a lot of the post. We all just need to get out there and hit on girls and play the numbers game until you find a hot one who also likes you back. Simple as that. And get thick skin so the rejections don't make you quit!

 

[ThisIsSparta]

"Toxic male environment" = A place where simps, snowflakes and feminists get to hear what they dont want to hear and then call people being toxic for having an oppinion/experience that they dont want to hear.

 

[Ricky]

Care to elaborate?

Essentially being a big flirt, loving to chat with all sorts of women including some you aren't interested in. Making them feel that you are interested in alot of women and you have tons of options. Women love to be around guys like that honestly.

It also takes alot of power away from them.. they know you aren't focused just on them, so you never come off as needy. You can be a little bit ****y, a little bit arrogant but admitting you love women and they are your weakness is actually very attractive to them.

They'd much rather be around a fun guy who admits his weaknesses for a pretty face but doesn't necessarily commit to them than a guy who is angry about women, or needy around them or even one that tries to hard. just for them.

 

[RazorRambo24]

Lets not sugarcoat sht. These spaces are full of a buncha losers and nerds, incels and all that.

The few guys who enjoy abundance either get turned off by some of the posts like I have many times, or might learn to ignore some of it and filter it out -- or just leave because of the beta male posts and ego swinging from people who really shouldn't have an ego to begin with.

Theres nothing for successful men to gain from these places-- but the least we can do is give advice and try to help change perspectives.
People do heed our advice-- because if you looked at this forum maybe 2 -3 years ago it was just full of extreme women hate , incel sht.. and look at it now, The attitudes have changed so greatly.. and only after some of those men who challenged the overall consensus/perspective had left. It takes real men to challenge the narratives of the weak herd of men.

 

[eli77]

Couldn't agree more. It is the reason I am selective about what men I coach, what posts I comment on, what comments I respond to, what I say and when I speak, etc.

In my experience and perspective, there are two different types of males that interact in forums like this: The ones that genuinely want to become better men and the ones that say they want to be better men but just want to get laid more and feel "alpha" but deep down are frustrated and jaded.

Young men (and men in general) have to be really selective about what information they consume. We live in an "informational" age that for better or worse is slowly suffocating us.

How much do you charge and where are you based out of.