Why Don't You Guys Read This A Little

[DJF or John]

And here we begin a great discussion.......

right now guys I'm a little busy, tomorrow is Monday, and this year is going to be a great damn year boys!

Check this out, I'll be here in bout an hour or 2, and I'll respond to this post.

I really still don't think you guys understand what's really going on in the entire dating thing. From just reading some of your replies, a lot of you seem to still think dating is about "improving yourself," on some aspects. While I'm not saying be a bum, I'm not saying to allow your "values" to pick your friends and mates. YOU should pick your friends and mates. You're the captain of the football team now everybody "likes you," all the women "fvck you," and you call these people your friends? You are successful in business, now everybody is kissing your azz, women flock to you and say you are the IDOL guy, and you call these women your soulmates?

Real SUCCESS in relationships is having people in your "circle" who care about YOU. The problem you guys still have, is that, like for example Freddy, he talks about what I'm saying is basically "BAD" advice to a guy, because I'm telling him that WHO HE IS, is "ok," and he doesn't have to learn, grow, etc.

That's what I'm saying, but I'm NOT saying it like you think I'm saying it.

If I'm new to Real Estate Investing, I need to learn REI to become a success in it. Why do I need to do that? Why can't I just go into REI, not study it, and just do what comes to my head? Well, because REI has DEFINITE, DEFINED, PRINCIPLES that are set in stone, that I need to learn FIRST....before I adopt my own "spin" on it. Do you see what I mean?

Now....listen. The problem is, guys take this same mentality, and apply it to relationships. They come in thinking they have to STUDY relationships, women, how to speak, how to talk, how to walk, how to dress, etc....the problem is that THIS IS NOT BUSINESS. In the Business world, you must become knowledgable of the LAWS IN BUSINESS, to be successful. NOT IN THE PERSONAL WORLD. The Personal World is YOUR WORLD! Your Personal Life is YOUR LIFE! THERE IS NO RULES! THERE IS NO PRINCIPLES!

In your personal life, YOU define what a woman is, YOU define how a woman should act, YOU define what type of woman you date. And you go out in the world and REJECT EVERY TYPE of woman that doesn't fit YOUR BILL.

....I'll be right back, hold on.

 

[insanity]

you don't need a circle of friends who gave a dam about you. most people only hear their own voices and beliefs. thats why friends are an after thought. people don't define you. when i wake up your either with me or against me. either way i pave my destiny and nobody is going to help me but me.

i didn't attract a woman because i was popular. i didn't attract women cause i was rich. i attracted them by enjoying my own company, heck i can make myself laugh. when you are enjoying life on your terms. thats what makes the difference. if you sit there wondering why your having a hard time attracting a woman and complaining about being single. what is attractive about that? your offering nothing on the table to them that is worth their time. self worth is the most attractive feature anybody can possess.

 

[Pappadapolis]

Yea But....

The advice given on this site can be a good guide to some on what not to do. I agree that you shouldn't use the advice as the ultimate standard, but it can help dudes recognize AFC behaviors or when some chick is playing games.

From reading the posts in these forums I believe the real problem is when dudes rationalize chicks' behavior, take excuses, and overanalyze things like a girl would do.

I agree with you about dudes worrying too much about what "steps" are next to get a girl, but they have to start somewhere. If they are smart, they will eventually learn what works for them and master it. But saying all you need is friends doesn't solve these dudes problems. I've seen groups of friends hanging out and could tell it would be a long time before any of got laid. You HAVE to understand women.

 

[DJF or John]

Guys Take A Seat

Already Guys, take a sit.....whip out a beer....and let's talk.

Now, let me tell you, this post right here can go on for days, but let's get one thing straight before I even go further......

What I'm about to say, you have already FELT BEFORE, but it's been beaten out of you so badly, that you are now AFRAID to feel it again. But guess what, DJF says it's okay to feel what I'm about to say to you, because life is to be LIVED AND ENJOYED....not just lived.

Gentlemen! Let's kick this off like this! Let's look at two parts of our lives, two dominant parts, BUSINESS AND OUR PERSONAL LIFE......say that with me, say BUSSSS-I-NESSSSS....PERRSSSSONALLLL LIFE.

Got that?

In life, we are either living our lives in either one of these two different entities. Now, we want the best out of life right? We want the cream of the crop right? Well, let's talk about what steps we need to take to be successful in EACH ENTITY. The Business Life, and the Personal Life.

A.) The Business Life.
To be successful here, you must throw yourself to the back burner, and first uplift your client/buyer/prospect/customer. You must learn what they want, how they tick, how they think, and you must ADAPT yourself to their BUSINESS ENVIRONMENTS in order to fully CONNECT TO THEM. After you made a connection, you can get a more general feel of their wants, needs, problems....and select which of your services, products, solutions will help assist in eliminating their problems or fulfulling their needs. You want to sale your house fast, find a buyer who needs it. You want to move that piece of manufacturing equipment...find a client who needs it. If the client doesn't know they need it, you should show them how they DO NEED IT, by demonstrating your expertise in their business ENVIRONMENT, and showing them how the product helps them succeed in this area.

Gentlemen, simply put....to succeed in business, you put yourself and what you want to the back, and you put other people's wants and needs before yours. In doing so, you demonstrate to that person that you understand them and their world, and you fulfill the need and you gain the sale.

NOW......Why did I just say all that?

Because 97% of men out here in the world, and about 99% on this site, take the BUSINESS LIFE and apply it to their PERSONAL LIFE.

See, in the BUSINESS LIFE....you begin by studying your prospect. You "change" yourself and your views, your world, your solutions, all to satisfy the other person. This equals success in the BUSINESS LIFE, not bad huh?

But this same mentality equals FAILURE in the Personal Life.

What are you guys doing when you learn tips, techniques, how to talk, how to walk, how to sit, how to chew your gum, what are you guys doing? Well, you are applying the Business Life to your Personal Life. YOU ARE PUTTING THE WOMEN FIRST!

And no matter what you do, when you do that, you will FAIL.

Ohhhh but you say, "But John, I got laid!" Well, again, you are applying the Business Life to your Personal Life. You getting laid in this example, would equal me getting the sale in the Business Example. But see, in the Business World, the sale is the success, because in TODAY'S BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT, when I get that sale I obtain a relationship to get residual income and future sales. So I get success. But see, on the Personal Side, yes I just got some pvssy, but the "pvssy" is not the success on the Personal Side....success on the Personal Side is the obtainment of a REAL FRIEND.

98% of the girls that fvck you don't like you. Again, let me say that one more time. 98% of the girls that fvck you don't like you. What do I mean? Lose your charisma. Lose your swagger. Stop being a Don Juan. Forget how to be funny. Forget how to make her ***. Forget how to be cool. Forget it all! And watch like Ja Rule's record sales....you go down.

Watch how the phone calls stop, yesterday you was "the sexiest motafvcka" alive, now all of a sudden there's something extremely "wrong" with you.

But you say...well John, you have to keep your value! If you don't have value the girl has no reason to like you!

And again I say.....YOU ARE STILL LIVING IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE LIKE YOU LIVE IN YOUR BUSINESS LIFE. You are still taking what women want (what other people want) and putting that over what YOU WANT!

Let's go in the Personal World for a moment.......

 

[DJF or John]

Here is the Personal World. You have all this time to spend and focus on YOU. What do YOU want? What do YOU want to eat? How do YOU want to call? What kind of chicks do YOU want to hang out with?

Guys don't do this. They don't write out a blueprint of a chick, and how that chick should act, and how that chick should be. On the inside, in your gut, each and every one of you guys know EXACTLY what type of girl you want, and HOW SHE SHOULD TREAT YOU. Why you settle for less than that leaves me dumbfounded.

You guys read tips and strategies so you can "seduce" women and get "love/pvssy/relationships." When you azzholes can't even see, that YOU ARE THE ONES being seduced! You are the ones being SOLD!

You are nothing but her boy toy! So you've stopped being a quote on quote "Nice Guy," and you've stopped writing poems and buying candy, but you STILL CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR AND PERSONALITY AND VIEWS to fit the WOMAN!! You are still changing yourself for her! Still! Still! Still! You've just put the candy back on the rack and left the poems to Ne-Yo, and now you use your personality and "charm" to "seduce her."

The Woman is STILL CONTROLLING YOU! You are still a "nice Guy" because you are doing what you are doing to "seduce" her!!

WELLL.......Hate me if you want! But it stops NOW!

Because NOW....the women will start CHANGING THEIR PERSONALITIES FOR YOU!

You know why? Because you are going to stop doing this, and doing that, just to PLEASE WOMEN. You are going to write down the chick in your head, how she acts, walks, talks, and moves......and you are going to go out and obtain her.

You know she cares for YOU....because YOU are being YOU. You are not hiding under your mask of tips and tricks.

God Damn It, tell me if you guys are understanding what I am saying?

You set the standard, you set the bar, and now women must change themselves to suite YOU!!

Women do this shyt all the time! Women dress their azzes up, and walk out the house! They say, "Watch how all these guys change themselves and alter their egos, checks, and dycks, to please me." And I watch! And it's funny!

Why don't you guys open your eyes? There's tooooo much pvssy out here. There's toooo many women out here. You can have the women that you want, no.....wait a minute. I said YOU can have the woman YOU WANT. Not the one who just happens to want you, for the value you bring to her!

Before I go forward....I need to know, does anybody on this site, understand, just what the fvck I'm trying to say?

 

[Pappadapolis]

Nah

Already Guys, take a sit.....whip out a beer....and let's talk.

Now, let me tell you, this post right here can go on for days, but let's get one thing straight before I even go further......

What I'm about to say, you have already FELT BEFORE, but it's been beaten out of you so badly, that you are now AFRAID to feel it again. But guess what, DJF says it's okay to feel what I'm about to say to you, because life is to be LIVED AND ENJOYED....not just lived.

Gentlemen! Let's kick this off like this! Let's look at two parts of our lives, two dominant parts, BUSINESS AND OUR PERSONAL LIFE......say that with me, say BUSSSS-I-NESSSSS....PERRSSSSONALLLL LIFE.

Got that?

In life, we are either living our lives in either one of these two different entities. Now, we want the best out of life right? We want the cream of the crop right? Well, let's talk about what steps we need to take to be successful in EACH ENTITY. The Business Life, and the Personal Life.

A.) The Business Life.
To be successful here, you must throw yourself to the back burner, and first uplift your client/buyer/prospect/customer. You must learn what they want, how they tick, how they think, and you must ADAPT yourself to their BUSINESS ENVIRONMENTS in order to fully CONNECT TO THEM. After you made a connection, you can get a more general feel of their wants, needs, problems....and select which of your services, products, solutions will help assist in eliminating their problems or fulfulling their needs. You want to sale your house fast, find a buyer who needs it. You want to move that piece of manufacturing equipment...find a client who needs it. If the client doesn't know they need it, you should show them how they DO NEED IT, by demonstrating your expertise in their business ENVIRONMENT, and showing them how the product helps them succeed in this area.

Gentlemen, simply put....to succeed in business, you put yourself and what you want to the back, and you put other people's wants and needs before yours. In doing so, you demonstrate to that person that you understand them and their world, and you fulfill the need and you gain the sale.

NOW......Why did I just say all that?

Because 97% of men out here in the world, and about 99% on this site, take the BUSINESS LIFE and apply it to their PERSONAL LIFE.

See, in the BUSINESS LIFE....you begin by studying your prospect. You "change" yourself and your views, your world, your solutions, all to satisfy the other person. This equals success in the BUSINESS LIFE, not bad huh?

But this same mentality equals FAILURE in the Personal Life.

What are you guys doing when you learn tips, techniques, how to talk, how to walk, how to sit, how to chew your gum, what are you guys doing? Well, you are applying the Business Life to your Personal Life. YOU ARE PUTTING THE WOMEN FIRST!

And no matter what you do, when you do that, you will FAIL.

Ohhhh but you say, "But John, I got laid!" Well, again, you are applying the Business Life to your Personal Life. You getting laid in this example, would equal me getting the sale in the Business Example. But see, in the Business World, the sale is the success, because in TODAY'S BUSINESS ENVIRONMENT, when I get that sale I obtain a relationship to get residual income and future sales. So I get success. But see, on the Personal Side, yes I just got some pvssy, but the "pvssy" is not the success on the Personal Side....success on the Personal Side is the obtainment of a REAL FRIEND.

98% of the girls that fvck you don't like you. Again, let me say that one more time. 98% of the girls that fvck you don't like you. What do I mean? Lose your charisma. Lose your swagger. Stop being a Don Juan. Forget how to be funny. Forget how to make her ***. Forget how to be cool. Forget it all! And watch like Ja Rule's record sales....you go down.

Watch how the phone calls stop, yesterday you was "the sexiest motafvcka" alive, now all of a sudden there's something extremely "wrong" with you.

But you say...well John, you have to keep your value! If you don't have value the girl has no reason to like you!

And again I say.....YOU ARE STILL LIVING IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE LIKE YOU LIVE IN YOUR BUSINESS LIFE. You are still taking what women want (what other people want) and putting that over what YOU WANT!

Let's go in the Personal World for a moment.......

That I don't agree with. A lot of dudes are here because they got tired of being played by women when they were "just being themselves" (AFCs). They saw jerks keep girls even when all the girl ever did about the jerk was complain. The problem is men don't know how to be men anymore.

Your reasoning is why over half the marriages fail nowadays, those are your Ja Rule record sales. You HAVE to deal with women a certain way, and dealing with them as equals isn't one of them. Movies and TV tell men to do it differently, tell women I love you all the time, putting them on a pedastool, but that BS doesn't work.

To guys that are sucessful with women it is not a business, IT IS their personal life. This forum is not about business, it is self-help. If a parent goes into a forum about how to get their chid to behave, is that a business? No. It is their personal life. You can tell these guys to be themselves and not treat this as a business, but that's what got them here in the first place.

 

[DJF or John]

You want success in the Business Life and the Personal Life, YOU GOT TO FIGHT FOR IT! But no....you settle!

You want to succeed in Business, you have to fight to learn your client, learn the industry, learn how to sale, learn how to beat the competition, and stay persisent....keep learning, you will get sales. Sales = Financial Freedom. In this world, the Business World, the sale is the success. Because the sale leads to a business relationship which leads to more sales.

You want to succeed in your Personal life, then you need to LOOK INSIDE OF YOU, and find the girl of your dreams on the inside of YOU! She is not some carbon copy crap that has came from a MTV reality show (lol...Robin from the Real World), no...she is a person that is tailor made for you! Matter of fact, you don't see just one, now you see a lot of them! And they are just for you! These are your chicks!! YOURS!!!

Now....you see her? Matter of fact....do you see them? Now my friend, go find her. Oh yes, fight my friend. 98% of the women you encounter IS NOT HER! So you'll be filtering like a motafvcka, but I want you to fight! Then after filtering and fvcking around with about 25 chicks you find ONE OF THEM! The whole God Damn encounter is different. Your laughing is full of joy, you full more and more manily, and that bytch is not just attracted to your dyck, but she'll drive 200 miles at 4 in the morning to get your azz out of the street!

This my friends, is what it is to have success on the Personal Side! It's the obtainment of THIS CHICK! Now....go out and get around 7 of her. Matter of fact, build yourself up a "Pvssy Flow" of a cycle of 7 or 10 of her, and I'll tell you what....if you want to feel what it really is to be a man and fvck a woman, NOW YOU'LL FEEL IT!

This also applies your guy friends on this side as well! How many of you read tips and other shyt on how to be "cool?" No, find that guy who cares about YOU, that guy will jump in a fight where you are getting beat down by 15 guys and die with you! That right there, is your boy! The time you spend together will be marvelous!

And when you take the success on the Business Side, added in with the success on the Personal Side.....then gentlemen, welcome to Heaven on Earth, because this is as close to it, as it gets!

I'll see you when you come over, to my side.

 

[DJF or John]

Papp you make an excellent reply, but you have been conditioned by this site, and it's wrong! You want me to show you?....okay.

"A lot of dudes are here because they got tired of being played by women when they were "just being themselves" (AFCs)."

Well, you are correct, all these guys came here to "LEARN" how to stop getting rejected. But see, they all think the PROBLEM was, "because I was being myself." That is not the problem. This site is giving guys medicine and promising an eventual "healing," but the problem that was diagnosed by this site is NOT the actual problem. So if the problem is not correct, then that also means the solution and prescription is not useful! The prescription is meant to eliminate the problem, but see most guys here understand, that I've been taking dose after dose of this site's prescriptions, yet....my "problem" is still in existence! Well, that's because this site diagnosis was wrong! And they diagnosed an incorrect problem! That's why tips and techniques don't really cure the real problem, but better yet (and really just like the medicine industry), all these "prescriptions" do is get you addicted to coming back and getting more doses after doses.

You said,

"They saw jerks keep girls even when all the girl ever did about the jerk was complain. The problem is men don't know how to be men anymore."

Now wait, first the problem was, "the guy was being himself and himself really svcks." Now the problem is that "men don't know how to be men anymore." Then there's another problem you just mentioned, you say, "They see all the "jerks" get the girls..." if I asked you what a jerk REALLY was, I bit $1,000 you would give me an incorrect answer. Wanna bet?

"Your reasoning is why over half the marriages fail nowadays. You HAVE to deal with women a certain way, and dealing with them as equals isn't one of them."

Lol, no buddy, YOUR REASONING is why majority of men are miserable right now! You guys make women look like a hard azz chemistry project or a hard azz puzzle to be figured out and defeated, or to be conquered and controlled, or to be "dealt with a certain way.." lol, lol.

"To guys that are sucessful with women it is not a business, IT IS their personal life. It is their personal life. You can tell these guys to be themselves and not treat this as a business, but that's what got them here in the first place."

"Guys that are successful with women," let me assume you mean, "Guys that are getting laid consisently and living happy romance lives," to continue, you say I can tell guys to be themselves and NOT treat this as a business, but YOU say that's what got them here....lol!

So, overall, this site says this. The reason that you guys are not living a happy romantic life right now, is basically because YOU svck as a person. And YOU should read and study OTHER GUYS, that ARE living successful romantic lives. Because those other guys are soooo better than you. Matter of fact, you should just go and svck their dycks right now.

So this site says, the problem is that you as a guy svck. Well, what if that's wrong Papp?

What if that guy over there, you know the one you are studying and memorizing all his tips, what if that guy really is no different than you? I mean, what's so "better" about him, that you have to learn his statues and tips, that you cant' really learn your own?

The guy that gets laid all the time does so because either:

1. Girls use him for his value. (money, popularity, great sex)
2. Or that guy has surrounded himself with women that truly care about him.

I bet the guy you are talking about, and the guy you guys on this site are studying about, is Guy Number one. The guy you see in the club with all the chicks on him, and you (like a high school kid) say, " I wish I can be him!" So you study his techinques!

BULLSHYT.

You can alter yourself to get her sex, EASILY! Sex isn't hard to obtain guys. You can even fvckin purchase it. Bottom line is, 98% of the time, THAT'S ALL YOU ARE GETTING! This is what I'm trying to say to you! You guys are putting all this effort into getting something that is worth NOTHING! It's sex! Nothing!

The success in the Personal World, is not the obtainment of sex....it's the obtainment of a woman that truly cares about you.

This is different than what you guys are spoon fed. But I know, that there are a number of guys here who will read this post and "get it." That's why I'm taking the time out of my time, to post this.

To all the rest of you, before you actually begin to "disagree" so quickly, why don't you slow down....read what I just say....and just THINK FOR A MINUTE. Just think.

 

[DJF or John]

Overall

Overall, here's what I'm saying.

1.There's no such thing as a certain guy or certain personality...that gets all the best in a romance life( or all the chicks). So stop studying tips and techniques, that basically tell you to be more like this guy or that guy.

2. This is a big as country. Fvck it, this is a big azz town I'm in. You can have the woman that you want on the inside. The woman you sit down and write down on a piece of paper, how she acts, treats you, etc...you can have her. She does exist, you just have to filter through 98% of women to find her.

Success in the Personal World = Personal Freedom. In the Business world I got Financial Freedom, meaning I don't have to "worry" about things concerned with my money situation or financial situation. Success in the Personal world offers you that "safty net" where you no longer have to put up with:

1. Nagging women
2. Fake Friends
3. "Lovers Monday," "Enemies Tuesday"
4. Getting a Baby, and getting sued
5. Divorces

The reason you don't have these problems is because the ONLY chicks you call your girl friends are actually that....they are your GIRL AND YOUR FRIEND! Your friend is there for you, but see, finding a REAL FRIEND is hard as fvck! I know that!

But I challenge you guys to take the "DonJuanForever Challenge," and filter through women and obtain those chicks that are your real friends. That really care for you.

This is what it's supposed to be guys! But see, it's just hard and rare to find somebody like this....that's why you guys just settle and continue playing this "game." But I promise you, they are out there, just please don't give up, and obtain all that God and Life has for you, in your Personal Life!

I now....must exit.

 

[jonwon]

DJF or John.

Man you really talk too much you know that.

I have read some of your posts, I kind-a turned off after the first few lines.

I am not stating its bad advice, rather it is good advice, but it is good advice to a guy who is either a natural or has is world sorted out already.

This site and guru's is about self improvement, for anyone to ignore self improvement in which ever area is a fool and wont progress, business or pleasure.

Your theories on Sales and dating are intresting to read, but actually knowing some great sales guys, i find sales men do fuc*ing awesome in the dating game.

Also who really give's a flying fuc* if the girl i have just fuc*ed likes me or not?
You make it sound like a bad thing.

This advice is good if you want to feel good about your lack of direction.

Learning is a positive tool, medicine or not.

DJF stop talking for one minute, i can see you can offer solid advice but your just waffling now.

Also telling people not to learn then trying to 'teach' in your posts is rather contradictory to the whole point.

Learning is a great tool.

i know, once i was some AFC chump, then i met guys that where great with women, studied alot or Seduction, improved my game now i am seeing 3 women and have many more on the back burner, had se* with 4 women this year.

Now ask me if i really give a fu** if they like me or not?

Granted for a LTR then sit on your as*, maybe she will come, but frankly i would rather PICK the women then have her PICK ME, get it?

Stop giving AFC's bad advice on how they should be content with there lack of insight, game and knowledge.

just being YOU in the generic TERM is not working for ALOT of guys.

Dating Gurus are after money, yes they have a bad rep, but when all is said and done they are Teachers of a subject they have studied for a very long time, why do the hard work when some-one as done it for you, but there advice is posted every-where so there is no need to buy it.

Just stop waffling man, I think your only talking to forum space anyway.

 

[WC2]

This may not be the most informative post that has been posted here recently, but it certainly is the best post recently, because it's unlike any others.

I implied on putting this on sticky for one reason.

There are too many guys out there who get their hopes up when they come to this website. They see techniques, strategies, and ways to treat women.

While great tips, they are nothing that can't be picked up from personal experience. There is no legitimate reason why a guy can't learn these simple points himself by getting out there and being active.

Even worse is that these things are learned much BETTER when learned by experience. I can't get over how many guys waste time with journals and certain techniques, while the whole purpose of this site is to improve one's self. If you're relying on dating journals and implementation of certain techniques to improve yourself, then you have a long road ahead of you.

At best, this site is for the simple minded who want a quick answer to what really can't be answered on paper.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic idea to create a website based on seduction, but the bottom line is that most of the visitors to this site are indeed losers who think a whole plethora of in your face information will do them any good. Have you ever asked yourself, why would one come to this website anyways? Hm?

I feel like we treat this forum as if it were a school for dreamers. You cannot come to a seduction website to find out what really drives you to women. Sure, you can find a few good tips here and there, but for the most part you're going to have to do these things yourself.

Every time I see a tip that involves a certain technique, it makes me vomit. Who cares. It's not only sad to rely on another person's "approved" technique to score yours; it's also ridiculous.

If you want to be a seduction teacher, fine. If you want to be certified in the "art of seduction", fine.

I know sure as hell, I don't. And I know sure as hell that most of the users on this site will never be a seduction teacher, or whatever that sad title of a jobis.

So if we don't want to be seduction teachers, why are we teaching on this forum like everyone wants to be one?

Life is far too short to worry about women and methods to seduce. If anything, we should be improving our lives and picking out what things we need to improve on the way.

The simple minded come here asking how to seduce women. And most of them will leave, simple minded, even if they can seduce women. But there are a few who will leave here with much more knowledge than any seduction technique can give you.

These men have the philosophy to live life successfully, do well on their own, and not worry when it comes to women. Why? Because who cares how many women you've laid. Who cares what crazy techniques you've used. When it all comes down to it and this site longer exists, you'll be sorry for all the time wasted on studying women. You'll wonder, why didn't I just concentrate on on my life? Why didn't I realize that I'm going to be married in ten years, no matter how many girls I lay? Why couldn't I take the high road, instead of being stuck down here on the low road moving a snail's pace?

Facts are facts. And the fact is, most men who have great luck with women don't have great luck due to a website! Or a book!

The moral of the story is be a go-getter. If you've fooled yourself into thinking that reading binary information from a website is making you a go-getter, then you've fallen into the trap of many. More importantly, if you think that drumming all this information into your head is going to make you a successful person, then STOP!

Use this site for a reference; not as a way of life.

 

[DJF or John]

Jonwon maybe my post was just too long for you to read....but you really should read what I said.

" Your advice is good advice to a guy who is either a natural or has is world sorted out already."

See, I know you didn't read what I said.

"This site and guru's is about self improvement, for anyone to ignore self improvement in which ever area is a fool and wont progress, business or pleasure."

I'm not saying "ignore" self improvement. I'm always improving myself, I'm saying that you guys are not living for yourselves, you are living for women. Studying what they want and don't want, instead of studying yourselves and what you want and don't want. The more I develop as John, the more my world develops. I do this by learning more about what "JOHN" wants....and understanding why JOHN wants it!

Not studying what women want....I don't learn shyt that way, if you think studying these dating tips is "self-improvement" you are wrong!

Studying these dating tips really STOP YOU from improving! You RUN AWAY FROM THE REAL PROBLEM, and throw on a mask of a tip or technique, instead of just facing the REAL problem. And no, the REAL problem is not that the guy svcks and he needs to learn what women want, the real problem is the guy can't answer these questions:

"Who Am I? and What in the Fvck Do I Want In Life?"

You said,
"Your theories on Sales and dating are intresting to read, but actually knowing some great sales guys, i find sales men do fuc*ing awesome in the dating game."

I didn't say they didn't, pvssy isn't some distant thing that soooo hard to obtain. Pvssy is EASY TO GET...but a REAL FRIEND isn't. Pvssy just brings a temporary "feel good," but a REAL FRIEND will make love to you for a long time.

You say lol,
"Also who really give's a flying fuc* if the girl i have just fuc*ed likes me or not? You make it sound like a bad thing."

You need to read what I posted. If you choose to not do that, then that's on you, I know it's long, but so what? I'm just trying to show you a better opportunity, a better value. You really think you are SUCCEEDING by getting pvssy, quite honestly, as I've said, the "Success in the Personal Life is the obtainment of a REAL GIRL THAT LIKES YOU, not Pvssy." Pvssy is a temporary feel good, a Real Girl is a long time love maker. Which is better?

You say,
"DJF stop talking for one minute, i can see you can offer solid advice but your just waffling now."

Jonwon quite honestly, you are the one waffling my friend. I typed this post to help some guys on here, JUST BECAUSE YOU didn't want to read the post, doesn't mean other guys don't. And unless I get kicked off the site, I have a right to type whatever and whenever I please pal! Compared to the other crap that goes up on this board everyday, it's about time that we discuss something that can actually bring about change around here.

 

[jonwon]

This may not be the most informative post that has been posted here recently, but it certainly is the best post recently, because it's unlike any others.

I implied on putting this on sticky for one reason.

There are too many guys out there who get their hopes up when they come to this website. They see techniques, strategies, and ways to treat women.

While great tips, they are nothing that can't be picked up from personal experience. There is no legitimate reason why a guy can't learn these simple points himself by getting out there and being active.

Even worse is that these things are learned much BETTER when learned by experience. I can't get over how many guys waste time with journals and certain techniques, while the whole purpose of this site is to improve one's self. If you're relying on dating journals and implementation of certain techniques to improve yourself, then you have a long road ahead of you.

At best, this site is for the simple minded who want a quick answer to what really can't be answered on paper.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fantastic idea to create a website based on seduction, but the bottom line is that most of the visitors to this site are indeed losers who think a whole plethora of in your face information will do them any good. Have you ever asked yourself, why would one come to this website anyways? Hm?

I feel like we treat this forum as if it were a school for dreamers. You cannot come to a seduction website to find out what really drives you to women. Sure, you can find a few good tips here and there, but for the most part you're going to have to do these things yourself.

Every time I see a tip that involves a certain technique, it makes me vomit. Who cares. It's not only sad to rely on another person's "approved" technique to score yours; it's also ridiculous.

If you want to be a seduction teacher, fine. If you want to be certified in the "art of seduction", fine.

I know sure as hell, I don't. And I know sure as hell that most of the users on this site will never be a seduction teacher, or whatever that sad title of a jobis.

So if we don't want to be seduction teachers, why are we teaching on this forum like everyone wants to be one?

Life is far too short to worry about women and methods to seduce. If anything, we should be improving our lives and picking out what things we need to improve on the way.

The simple minded come here asking how to seduce women. And most of them will leave, simple minded, even if they can seduce women. But there are a few who will leave here with much more knowledge than any seduction technique can give you.

These men have the philosophy to live life successfully, do well on their own, and not worry when it comes to women. Why? Because who cares how many women you've laid. Who cares what crazy techniques you've used. When it all comes down to it and this site longer exists, you'll be sorry for all the time wasted on studying women. You'll wonder, why didn't I just concentrate on on my life? Why didn't I realize that I'm going to be married in ten years, no matter how many girls I lay? Why couldn't I take the high road, instead of being stuck down here on the low road moving a snail's pace?

Facts are facts. And the fact is, most men who have great luck with women don't have great luck due to a website! Or a book!

The moral of the story is be a go-getter. If you've fooled yourself into thinking that reading binary information from a website is making you a go-getter, then you've fallen into the trap of many. More importantly, if you think that drumming all this information into your head is going to make you a successful person, then STOP!

Use this site for a reference; not as a way of life.

I agree WC2, this is better then the OP, more solid imo.

But lets not forget seduction, tips and tricks create a certain lvl of confidence false or otherwise, a placebo effect is in place and that in itself give people courage to challange there beliefs.

Every guy i know who as studied seduction does not simply copy a set of rules, they practice what they read and learn and then they mould it to there own ideals and outcomes, but you still cant take away that the tips and tricks are not viable, they have a purpose even if that is a 'suger pill' ideal.

Also tips tricks routines, ideals and theory on the dating world imo are fun things to experiance, its when people as you stated base there whole interactions on forumleric ideals where they fail, but most see the pit falls of the seduction community but usually only AFTER they have learned and risen ABOVE it and sadly not before.

 

[DJF or John]

JonWon stop man....

"seduction, tips and tricks create a certain lvl of confidence false or otherwise, a placebo effect is in place and that in itself give people courage to challange there beliefs."

JonWon self improvement is SELF-KNOWLEDGE. When you want to improve yourself, you study more about yourself, your fears, your ambitions, who you are as a man, as a weakling, as a strong guy, etc, etc. Seduction is not self-improvement....seduction is a fantasy "magic pill" that guys read and THINK they are leading a girl to a horny state of mind. The only thing you need to lead a girl to a horny state of mind is a calm, cool, seductive attitude. You can be yourself, say what you want, go places you like. Just add a seductive attitude and you'll be okay, THAT ALONE GETS YOU LAID. Getting Laid is NOTHING!

You say,
"Also tips tricks routines, ideals and theory on the dating world imo are fun things to experiance, its when people as you stated base there whole interactions on forumleric ideals where they fail, but most see the pit falls of the seduction community but usually only AFTER they have learned and risen ABOVE it and sadly not before."

Lol, so you admit the "pitfalls" of the seduction community. Why do you guys even figure seduction is nessnesscary?

It's supposed to lead the girl to a horny state, being a sexual guy and having a seductive attitude will lead her there just as quicker. Why all the tricks and patterns and shyt?

If you really want to improve the SELF, learn yourself. Dig deep on the inside of you and find you, and crave life out to fit YOUR expectations. What does seduction, tips, and techinques do but cause you to bend over backwards and BECOME SOMETHING for everybody else's benefit?

I mean, hey, I've explained this to you guys....I mean, I really don't understand why you don't seem to comprehend what I'm saying. But to the guys on this site that really want to succeed in romance, they will understand what I'm saying. To you seduction junkies, I'll be any amount of money you'll be in the same situation next year, as far as women goes.

 

[jonwon]

"seduction, tips and tricks create a certain lvl of confidence false or otherwise, a placebo effect is in place and that in itself give people courage to challange there beliefs."

JonWon self improvement is SELF-KNOWLEDGE. When you want to improve yourself, you study more about yourself, your fears, your ambitions, who you are as a man, as a weakling, as a strong guy, etc, etc. Seduction is not self-improvement....seduction is a fantasy "magic pill" that guys read and THINK they are leading a girl to a horny state of mind. The only thing you need to lead a girl to a horny state of mind is a calm, cool, seductive attitude. You can be yourself, say what you want, go places you like. Just add a seductive attitude and you'll be okay, THAT ALONE GETS YOU LAID. Getting Laid is NOTHING!.

You know this is seduction advice right here, you are aware of that are you not? So stating dont listen to seduction when it pockets your posts is a bit hard to understand. Also i enjoy getting LAID, just because you dont does not mean its wrong, so again contradictory to your message, ie. be YOU, well how can they be you unless they are the YOU that your trying to allow them to be.

Stop putting boxes around things, people are free to explore there own path, if its seduction or tips or techniques or walking into the nearest bar naked and seeing if there are any takers.

"You say,
"Also tips tricks routines, ideals and theory on the dating world imo are fun things to experiance, its when people as you stated base there whole interactions on forumleric ideals where they fail, but most see the pit falls of the seduction community but usually only AFTER they have learned and risen ABOVE it and sadly not before."

Lol, so you admit the "pitfalls" of the seduction community. Why do you guys even figure seduction is nessnesscary?

It's supposed to lead the girl to a horny state, being a sexual guy and having a seductive attitude will lead her there just as quicker. Why all the tricks and patterns and shyt?

If you really want to improve the SELF, learn yourself. Dig deep on the inside of you and find you, and crave life out to fit YOUR expectations. What does seduction, tips, and techinques do but cause you to bend over backwards and BECOME SOMETHING for everybody else's benefit?

I mean, hey, I've explained this to you guys....I mean, I really don't understand why you don't seem to comprehend what I'm saying. But to the guys on this site that really want to succeed in romance, they will understand what I'm saying. To you seduction junkies, I'll be any amount of money you'll be in the same situation next year, as far as women goes.

Seduction tips and techniques is simply about learning to improve YOU to better yourself. No sorry knowledge does not come from within, i wish it did but knowing how life works the more we know the better armed we are for the eventualities that present themselves, including human interaction.

Today’s seduction is simply tomorrows psychology, is studying psychology wrong?

Granted seduction has a negative side, but one as to come to that path them-selves, personally I would prefer when I reach that threashold to have a higher understanding of what is going on through the experience of others that have walked down this path, I like to call it progression and evolution on theories and advice, hence the true reason the community exists in the first place.

People coming together to share experiences, that others can learn from and possible see if it will work for them.

Granted the ones that go away and do monkey tricks is simply a bigger fool then the AFC guy sat playing WoW and neglecting the real world.
But still at least the guy with monkey tricks will find out they are not working then he will try something new, the word is trying.

The monkey tricks where not the point the point is they motivated the guy to use them and begin his path to a more self path.

Dont underestmate the plecbo effect of advice from the gurus; they are great motivational tools and some of there stuff does work and has been PROVEN to work over and over and over again.

 

[DJF or John]

You know JonWon, I can talk to you until I turn blue in the face. You either don't understand what I'm saying or you are currently "satisfied" with whatever decisions you've made in your life as far as women goes, so I'll just leave you alone. I really don't feel like getting into a flame war, as it looks like it's heading that way.

To other guys here, I don't know how much more I can break this down. Here's what I'm saying, in as short and sweet as I can put this........

1. There's a whole sea of women out there. Alot of them! And within that bunch of women are some very cool, quality women, who will not only be great Fvck Partners, but they will be Great Supporters to your life.

2. Write Down Qualities that you want in a chick, and go out and filter through these women and find what you are looking for. Find what fulfills you.

3. Do the same thing for your close buddies.

Now, you will surround yourself with positive people, and the women in your life will not just offer you great pvssy, but also great friendship, love, care, and support as well.

As I had been trying to say, success in the Personal World is the obtainment of a Real Friend, or a girl that actually cares and likes you. Now fill your time with a bunch of these women, and you will experience the bliss that is....romance.

 

[jonwon]

You know JonWon, I can talk to you until I turn blue in the face. You either don't understand what I'm saying or you are currently "satisfied" with whatever decisions you've made in your life as far as women goes, so I'll just leave you alone. I really don't feel like getting into a flame war, as it looks like it's heading that way.

To other guys here, I don't know how much more I can break this down. Here's what I'm saying, in as short and sweet as I can put this........

1. There's a whole sea of women out there. Alot of them! And within that bunch of women are some very cool, quality women, who will not only be great Fvck Partners, but they will be Great Supporters to your life.

2. Write Down Qualities that you want in a chick, and go out and filter through these women and find what you are looking for. Find what fulfills you.

3. Do the same thing for your close buddies.

Now, you will surround yourself with positive people, and the women in your life will not just offer you great pvssy, but also great friendship, love, care, and support as well.

As I had been trying to say, success in the Personal World is the obtainment of a Real Friend, or a girl that actually cares and likes you. Now fill your time with a bunch of these women, and you will experience the bliss that is....romance.

Nice post.

Look man i have no disrespect for you, as for a flame war I cant be bothered with that.

Your post is a good post, like I said it is good for a guy who already as a lot going for him already or a guy who is pretty much on a successful path.

But how do you propose the average man gets this stuff, simply by being YOU as you put.

Well it seems the being YOU part is not working for most men, or a lot of men, so being you is not in the sense applicable.

It is nice stating these values, but you do know some guys cant even talk to women, some guys don’t have mates, some guys don’t have style, some guys don’t have this level of understanding and these guys are still being ‘the’ YOU.

So there ‘already have the knowledge part’ is not really working now is it!

All I am saying nice points and great for a guy who as a certain level of understanding, but still it is very poor advice for the new starter or the guy on the path.

 

[Sean O]

Your post is a good post, like I said it is good for a guy who already as a lot going for him already or a guy who is pretty much on a successful path.

But how do you propose the average man gets this stuff, simply by being YOU as you put.

Just thought I'd emphasize this point a little more. This, DJF, was the main reason I didn't like your whole "there's nothing wrong with you" speech in your original post. People come to this site and stay here because they AREN'T successful with women and want to learn how to change that; you wouldn't have any reason to if you were already successful in that area of life.

 

[Tazman]

DJF, I understand your message and I do agree with it, maybe not entirely, but the bigger picture you paint is exactly why I was able to overcome my fears. I was too concerned with what "women" thought of me, and this site actually made me feel worse, like there was something simply "wrong" with me. However, deep down I knew that wasn't the case because of the experiences I've had and all the conflicting observations I'd encounter day-after-day.

I'm still learning because I like to keep an open mind, but I've definitely gotten rid of the attitude that getting puzzy, just to keep up with other guy's "quotas" is going to make me feel better about myself. Focusing on what I want out of life has relieved a lot of stress and seems to have brought the attention of women as well. I've actually had to do a fair amount of "filtering" and it that in itself feels excellent.

Good post.

 

[DJF or John]

Man, what a day today was....wow!

I love my job, guess I should'nt really call it a job huh?

Hey Sean, I feel you man, but you guys are still missing everything I said. I mean, just about everything. Matter of fact, what I said I think went over your heads.

You guys think that my advice, is similar to me telling a fat guy that he doesn't need to workout and eat right, and that he's currently "okay" just living the lifestyle he's living.

Lol...that's not what I said.

What I said, to put it as plain as I can, is to find out what all qualities you want in a woman, and go out and acquire about 10 of those women in your life. You should now have a life filled with women who care about you, women who fvck you, and women who are great and fun to be around, and also they support you and uplift you. (You are who you hang around)>

That's what I was saying. I said by doing this, you achieve "success" in your personal life. I said that "getting pvssy" is not really success in your personal life. I said that "getting a friend" or (a girl that cares about you and fvcks you) I said that's the success.

1. I said you accomplish this by first, STOP learning seduction and tips and techniques. I said instead you should "learn something," but don't learn that stuff, I said look in the mirror and learn YOURSELF. By learning seduction, you focus all of your attention on "women" and not "yourself." By focusing on women, you actually just become their boytoy, and ALL THE WOMEN YOU BRING IN YOUR LIFE, will be women who don't really care about you. They just care about your value, if you lose your value you lose the girl. I said, STOP doing what you are doing, because you will only obtain those types of chicks.

2. Upon learning yourself you also learn women. Yes, you learn more about people. You begin to actually see where you want to go, and the "types" of people that will assist you getting there. You learn the "best chicks" to approach and acquire. We always talk about "c0ck blocking" but what about "life-blocking"? We know how people will c0ck block us, but what about the people that life-block you? You are who you hang with, and if you think that the chick you're fvcking has no "influence" on you, you are kidding. And most women will not support and help nurture "you" they will just USE you for whatever "value" you have.

You guys come here to learn how to get pvssy. Well, let me tell you right now how to get some pvssy.

1. Be positive and open.
2. Be sexual.
3. Be seductive and subtle.
4. Learn how to massage.
5. When you fvck her, learn how to hit her spot and make her come very well.

Do this, then go out for the next 2 weeks and meet just 3 chicks a day. At the end of those 2 weeks, you will have had more sex, and will have more pvssy in your pipeline then you can handle. (About 5-6 chicks minimum).

So that's Pvssy, you're getting pvssy. But understand something, if you lose your seductiveness, lose your coolness, get negative, get down, get out, these 5-6 chicks will leave your azz. Because they are only "using" you for your value, and your value in this case is that, "You Make Her Feel Good." Just like a chick will continue going on dates with a Nice Guy because he continues to dish out cash, a chick will continue to come around you if you continue to "Make Her Feel Good."

So you say, "What's Wrong With That John? I'm Getting Pvssy!" Yes, pvssy is good (very good with some Ms. Dash sprinkled over it ) but see, because this chick will leave you if you get down, you are really not getting ANYTHING BACK for your investment of value.

That's why I say, acquire the chicks that will fvck you good, and who also care about you. So when you get down (and you will, either emotionally or physically), she will hold you up and not leave you laying there. That's what I'm trying to tell you guys.

You guys are investing your time and value into getting pvssy, and pvssy is a short time reward and really has no longetivity or value. You guys should be investing your time, your value, your don juanness, your coolness, into chicks that will love you AND fvck you. Now, you have build yourself a family, a friend, a lover, and someone who will be by your side in times of need.

It's better to have one pretty chick that loves you, then to have 45 pretty chicks who just fvck you.