Why do most women say I'm a nice guy for?

[st_99]

Does it matter really? Who cares if they call you nice, ugly, stupid,
jerk, friend or brother.

You just have to bottom line it.. am I getting ANY girls or not?

If not, then you just need to start from the bottom up.

Appearence
Speech
Posture
Nerves
Attitude
Eye contact
Seduction skills
Etc..


Start working on things and check them off. Eventually, you
should see some improvement.

 

[FairShake]

I really need to learn how to attract women, but I have no idea how to do it. I guess I'll start acting like more of an a**hole and try to push things and get more in-your-face with people. I know that image will not be congruent with me right now though. But I have to test things out to see what will work out for me. The last year has been a lot of rejection and trying to learn how to be good with women.

In general I don't fvck with club girls. I barely SPOKE in clubs and could hear even less. My meathead friends who tended to hook up barely spoke too. A stare, smile, some grinding, and they tended to have their lay for the night. There was never an monologue. When I did pull ladies out of clubs (maybe half a dozen in my life) it was pretty much the same deal.

If you are like me, socially awkward at first and not the best looking, I highly recommend you start messing with the OTHER 2/3rds of the Bell Curve that people don't talk about on this forum. The nerdy girls, hippie girls, normal girls, busy girls, preppy girls, goth, rockabilly, etc. And the WOMEN. These females care about looks too, but they like personality. They will also tolerate a touch of awkwardness and shyness at first if you are fun. Much better women with which to develop your conversational seduction by the way since they can hear you and, more importantly, you can hear them.

Which brings me to your idea to be more in-your-face and azzholish. If I were you I wouldn't. If it's not you it will come across as desperate, try-hard, and compensating. It's definitely not the first step towards success as a socially awkward person. Walk before you run and start out conversing with women who will talk with you, develop humor and social skills, and then try to branch out if you want.

 

[AlexDP]

women calling you a nice guy and having sex with you = RARE

Not really. My girlfriend tells me I'm a nice guy all the time. However I have noticed a trend with women:

When you don't care about what they think of you and you make a kind gesture every now and then, they will love you for it. When you are always nice, because you are scared that they might not like you, they hate you. In the second case they might still even call you a nice guy, but they won't have any respect for you whatsoever.

Same goes for my girlfriend. Hell, when I tell her I don't like her behaviour when she's being irrational and moody, she'll actually say "I'm sorry, you're such a nice guy, I should really not do this sort of stupid stuff" and then jump my bones. You see, it's all about standing up for yourself. It's not about words, mate.

 

[f283000]

Not really. My girlfriend tells me I'm a nice guy all the time.

Yeah your GIRLFRIEND tells you that all the time big difference.

There's always exceptions to every rule. Just because that worked for you that doesn't mean it will work out for most guys.

I could sing a woman a love song on our first date, buy her flowers, write her a poem and tell her I love her and she might like it. But I could go on another 20 dates and do the same and i'll probably never hear from those women again because showing so much interest early on is known to turn women off.

The same applies to the word nice guy. It's a code word from women to let you know that they see a male as a non sexually threatening guy BUT there are always exceptions.

However, as intelligent men we are not supposed to ignore history, trends and past mistakes from other men. So just like we are not to ignore how countless men got burned for showing too much interest early on (and even women let you know this turns them off) we are also not to ignore when a woman calls us a nice guy. We are supposed to try to fix that leak in our game.

 

[zekko]

Not really. My girlfriend tells me I'm a nice guy all the time.

I agree, I hear women call guys that they're fvcking nice all the time. The whole thing that women don't like nice guys is purely pickup brainwashing.

It's just that being nice is neutral, it doesn't do anything to attract in itself. Pretty much everybody is raised to be nice and polite, so it doesn't do anything to make you stand out. And if you add in the pickup definition of nice (which is being a raging pvssy) that's obviously bad. Like someone said, you need to have an edge, you need to find your edge.

I would bet the OP's problem has nothing to do with him being nice. There's something holding him back, where he isn't creating any attraction. He may be socially awkward or whatever. How does he do with people other than women, does he have any friends? He should start working on things to improve, like the list st 99 gave.

Guys who get upset and "protest too much" when they are called nice are insecure and obviously have been reading too much pickup material.

 

[Zerro]

There's nothing wrong with being nice, the problem is being boring. It's better to be a nice guy with an edge than a douchebag or a pushover.

 

[AlexDP]

There's nothing wrong with being nice, the problem is being boring. It's better to be a nice guy with an edge than a douchebag or a pushover.

Exactly. She might call me nice, but I don't let her push me around and when she's being retarded, I tell her so. That's the difference. Most nice guys aren't nice. They're insecure creeps hoovering around women giving in to their every irrational desire in the hopes of getting laid. Nice isn't nice when you do it for sex. That's creepy. I don't need to do anything for sex, I assume girls want me so it will happen anyway.

 

[rum]

It's a genuine compliment, and most women who say it aren't BS'ing you...you are a nice guy and deserve the best. But the women who say it are still mentally and emotionally damaged, you being the "nice guy", are the ultimate catch. But they have yet to wise up and realize it, and still chase around for abusers, addicts, fixer upper types. You're already the refined male that they will be clamoring for once there minds mature around 30...but for now you're just a nice guy...they're just not smart enough to appreciate you yet.

 

[floydb25]

The two Z's above are dead on. Being nice or sweet is never the issue. It's just a cop-out for those who fail with women. It makes the women look shallow, and the guy like a stand-up, classy character. That way, they don't have to accept any of the blame, or look inward. People aren't as nice as they think they are. It's always personality / character flaws that causes them to fail. Or, they're simply not attractive to the women they're pining after.

Notice how they don't complain about being too nice when a girl likes them, and they have no interest in her. It's always when they are unsuccessful with the ones they want - who don't want them. Nevermind that the nice guys are the shallow ones trying to chase after the hot girls - then complain about these girls being shallow for not dating them.

Aaron: I've had girls tell me I'm the nicest guy they ever met; really nice; sweet; a sweetheart; a nice guy; non-threatening; wouldn't hurt a fly; always there for them... You name it... I dated almost all of these girls. They all wanted sex, and flirted constantly. Those I didn't date were quite devastated.

The ones that didn't want to date me weren't attracted to me, and were never interested to begin with. That's all it comes down to. Either they're into you, or not.

When I acted like a jerk - they got PISSED, and wanted nothing to do with me beyond sex. Or, nothing at all. They said "I thought you were nice; you're such an *******; I hate you", etc, and dished the same treatment back at me. None of these relationships lasted longer than when I was nice. They were all chaotic, with lots of fighting and hatred.

What people don't understand is that a lot of jerks start off nice - then change by the time the other person is already attached. The person falls in love with the sweetness, and tries bringing it back. They focus on the good times, and try to make it always good. Once they realize its futile, and it was never real to begin with - they end up leaving. These relationships don't last. Exceptions are girls who are jerks themselves, or those with low self-esteem and a history of abuse/neglect.

 

[Burroughs]

They call you 'nice' so that they don't have to sleep with you but..

..should they ever need a heavy object moved like a sofa or boxes of books they can call on you without guilt.

 

[floydb25]

^ Don't listen to this guy. The reason this happens is because they're not attracted to you. It has nothing to do with being nice. You are just a friend, and friends do things for each other, listen to each other's problems, give advice, etc.

There are two ways this can happen:

1.) There is no attraction. Nothing you can do about this. Being their friend and proving how awesome and nice you are won't get you anywhere - because they were never interested to begin with. This does not make her a ***** for not dating you - just as you aren't an ******* for not being attracted to everyone who is nice to you.

2.) You act too friendly, "nice", and non-sexual. You place yourself into the friend-zone by ACTING like a friend. They can lose interest, and keep you around as a friend if you never make a move, flirt, escalate, or place yourself in the position of being lover material. This is all your fault if this happens. She isn't a ***** for wanting to be your friend when you are the one acting like a friend. People view you as you make them feel, and romantic / friendly feelings are NOT the same - but they can change. Just because someone is interested at one point - doesn't mean those feelings can't change, and turn friendly.

 

[floydb25]

f28: I'd argue the opposite. Too many guys assume that, just because this guy failed by being nice - means they will. You are not them. You don't know anything about them. You are not dating the same person. You can do the same things they did, and still be successful.

It's very risky to determine how you should act by other people's experiences. If they're ugly and socially awkward - they'll fail by being "nice". That doesn't mean a hot, social guy will - by doing the exact same things. In fact, he will probably fail by doing the opposite.

You cannot compare yourself to other people - because you're not the same. You don't know all the details about them... It's just a nickname on a screen. It's very foolish to not do something, or hold back on certain things - because joey46&st said it doesn't work. Don't even keep it in your mind. You're not him. He was probably just a friend all along - while you are getting sexual advances, making progress, etc. By doing the exact same things. Just because HE is just a friend - doesn't mean you will be.

That's not to say you can't get a general conscious of what's going on... But it is not a good idea to depend on other people's experiences, and take everything they say as fact. You usually don't get the whole story. People complain because they fail - then come up with stupid conclusions based around their delusional beliefs. This is how stereotypes start, and its dangerous to follow them.

I mentioned this on another thread, but I dated a girl once. My good friend - who I knew in real life - told me not to do this and that - because it won't work with her. Because HE failed with her - he came to this irrational conclusion about her. I went against this; did what he told me not to do; and was successful. I brought up his name in a conversation - to get a vibe about why she rejected him, and why what he did didn't work. She said she was never attracted to him, and didn't care what he did. But she was thrilled around me, and loved the niceness. My shyness was considered cute. She was crazy about me. I did the same things he did - if not worse. He failed; I didn't.

This is a real life experience with a good friend. Now, think about listening to what a random stranger on the internet has to say. You don't know anything about this person, and assuming you will fail because he did. You're not him. Chances are, you'll fail BY listening to his nonsense.

 

[Deicide]

Does it matter really? Who cares if they call you nice, ugly, stupid,
jerk, friend or brother.

You just have to bottom line it.. am I getting ANY girls or not?

If not, then you just need to start from the bottom up.

Appearence
Speech
Posture
Nerves
Attitude
Eye contact
Seduction skills
Etc..


Start working on things and check them off. Eventually, you
should see some improvement.

No, I'm not getting any girls at all. I've been working on never running out of things to say and approaching strong. My nerves need some work for sure. It's what causes the running out of things to say and makes me unsure and clueless as when to escalate.
Attitude is good on a conscious level, as I'm always telling myself good things. But I'm a guy who has never had major success with women, and that part of my life has always held me back.
Seduction skills: I've only kissed 4 girls in my life, actually all 4 since last August. I've only had sex one time with one girl at her house last August.

 

[Deicide]

Don't really know what to tell ya. Are you socially awkward? Give off weird, needy vibes... Not good at conversation, or making people feel comfortable.... Pleasant, entertaining, and fun to be around... Easy to make friends... People can sense desperation - just by trying too hard to fit in, and be accepted.

It sounds like you're trying to fit into a crowd you don't belong to. It doesn't really work. Either you're a shallow douche bag who attracts party *****s, or not. That's why you are probably getting rejected. You're trying to attract them by being something they're not attracted to. They can sense it right away. Hence, giving you the cold shoulder. If you were a hot bad boy - they'd be all over you - cause they're shallow.

I don't know what kind of person you can attract from what you've provided. You have to at least dress nice, seem sociable, and like you belong. You can't come off like you're inexperienced, shy, or awkward with women when you're looking for ONS' and FWB's. Doesn't work... You have to come off like you fit this kind of person, and they'll seek after you for it. You have to give off these vibes - like the sluts do by being shallow, acting retarded, and dressing like hookers. They're advertising. You gotta present yourself in a similar fashion to attract this type. They're not gonna want this with a nice guy. Being a social outcast won't get you far. You're not really doing anything to make you social or likeable.

Think about it this way... These girls you are chasing after will go after what they deem is on their level. If they're hot, social, confident, dress nice, etc - that's what they're gonna go for... The hot guys with the same traits. If they're just looking to get laid - they'll go after those who fit the bill. Impressions mean a lot - without even saying anything.

I do dress nice, actually women have said I seem to dress like a pretty boy.
i don't have many close friends to do things with. I'm usually out by myself doing things. At bars and clubs, I always end up making friends/acquaintances with guys because I'm a friendly person. But when it comes to peoploe to do things with, almost no one is there.
I'm not socially awkward with guys, but I've never felt all that comfortable talking to girls I don't know. I'm actually very disarming to guys that will walk into my sets because as soon as they walk in(usually friends of the girls), I'll introduce myself smile and they'll usually think I'm a cool guy. Women though, are like a big mystery that seems always set to walk away from me if I say the wrong thing without knowing it.

I think I have talked to long at clubs with girls without escalating because I have no idea when is the right time to kiss, makeout, or pull a girl back to her place(I'll have to do that at the club since it's an hour away). 3 Different groups of girls did talk to me and seem interested, but they ended up walking away from me after a certain amount of time last time I went to a club. There was probably 6 different groups of girls that were the neutral/bored/non-interested type that I talked to also.
I can't dance well either so that doesn't help.

I just try to be myself, but the closest person I would say I act like is probably Tyler Durden from RSD, minus the aggressive insta-makeouts and all that complicated stuff.

Thanks for all the contributions and advice floyd.

 

[FairShake]

Seduction skills: I've only kissed 4 girls in my life, actually all 4 since last August. I've only had sex one time with one girl at her house last August.

FWIW that's awesome bro. At the very least you are going forward and making progress.

I'm telling you, don't go starting with club girls. That's a very cold, cruel, and intimidating environment. Start with regular girls and work on being fun, having the balls to escalate, and try and look your best. Those are the three things that will get you laid. All you really need...

 

[Deicide]

FWIW that's awesome bro. At the very least you are going forward and making progress.

I'm telling you, don't go starting with club girls. That's a very cold, cruel, and intimidating environment. Start with regular girls and work on being fun, having the balls to escalate, and try and look your best. Those are the three things that will get you laid. All you really need...

Thanks, I'm just going to clubs every 3 weeks or so. I did Day Game/College Day Game for a long time before that(from January 2011 onward), and I want a new environment to do things, find more single women, and of course, have more sex.
so, in the mean time, I'll be doing Hired Gun and Social Circle game with some Day time cold approaches.

 

[DJVladdy]

They take you for an AFC. stop smiling so damn much. Awake your purely sexual being.

 

[floydb25]

Details are always good...

You sound way too inexperienced, nervous, shy, and unsure to be picking up bar *****s. You need to start with just getting comfortable talking to women. You're probably trying too hard, and they can sense it. You don't know what to say, how to escalate, or what to do. You run out of things to say, and don't know how to pick it back up, or keep her interested. You're giving off needy vibes, and they're giving you the cold shoulder. Bar *****s and hotties aren't going to help you with this. Some of them might even make fun of you, and make you feel even worse about it. *****es flock to the bar. They are shallow, mean, and have short attention spans. They don't care about talking - they just want to have fun.

You probably have a fear of rejection, and its holding you back. Don't let it. Get rid of it. Women are not special. Don't place them in a seperate category. They're normal human beings with flaws. It's not important that they like you. Just talk to them. Do NOT go in with any expectations, or get butt-hurt when you get rejected. Gotta toss the ego aside, and just get comfortable around them.

There's no need to be shy or nervous. Treat them the same way you do with your guy friends. Don't act all proper and polite. Don't worry in the back of your mind on if she likes you. Don't go out of your way for, or try to win her over. Just chill and conversate. Don't try to force a conversation, or think about what to say. Don't put any pressure on the situation. Don't talk TOO much, or hang around for too long. Just gotta chill and be laid back. Let the conversation flow naturally.

You are successful with guys because you don't care about what they think. You don't try to impress them. It's no big deal. There's no pressure. Your mindset changes with women - when it shouldn't. It's still not a big deal. You don't need them. When you think like this - it shows in your behaviors. You're not worried about seeking their approval, and that's when they come to you. "How come he's not trying to impress me? Why did he just walk away? Why won't he be my friend? Why doesn't he do things for me? Why doesn't he flirt with me? Am I not good enough?"

I'll give you an example of a needy guy... This guy, whenever he sees me, comes over to talk, and NEVER leaves. I talk for a few minutes about whatever, then I'm done. He talks and talks and talks. Stands right by me the whole time. I have to put the headphones on just to get him to leave. He does this every day... Never leaves me alone. Always wants to hang out, asks what I'm doing, comes into my house, joins me for every cigarette break.

If you're doing this with women - its very unattractive. Don't act like their shadow, or a creepy stalker. Don't hang around or talk too much. Don't be at their beck and call. Don't try to force yourself onto them. Don't stick around for longer than is necessary, or feel like you have to stay in their space and keep the conversation going. Don't make it awkward. Don't go ape**** whenever a hot girl talks talks to you or shows interest. Make your rounds. Talk to lots of girls, and people in general. Become sociable, and make a group of friends. Expand your social circle. Don't act needy, and success will follow. People pick up on your vibes - whether you realise it or not. You might not even know you're acting this way, but you are.

It must be repeated: treat women like you do with guys. You don't always talk to guys, or respond right away, or do favors for them. You're cool to chill with. Be the same way around women. Don't always be available, make them your #1 priority, or try to force anything. No expectations. Just have fun.

 

[DJVladdy]

floyd, you're a beast.
Wow, that was an awesome post - so much truth bro. Repped.

 

[zekko]

Well, its usually a negative. I know what you mean though, you game them PERFECTLY and they still say "such a nice guy" and they're even on your cok and seem to really like you.

Look, there's nothing wrong with being called nice, despite what the pickup BS tells you. It's simply irrelevant when it comes to attraction. It's like she's saying "Your shirt is blue".

If the girl isn't attracted to you, she'll throw you a bone, let you down easy "You're a nice guy though". It's like saying "I don't want to date you, but I like your blue shirt". Well, she was never going to date you for your blue shirt anyway. She may want to date a guy with a nice blue shirt, but it has to be an attractive guy.

It's like Floyd25 was talking about with the fat girl. Maybe the fat girl is nice. But being nice doesn't change the fact that she's fat, she's unattractive. It's not an attraction factor. Being nice doesn't make her more, or less attractive. It's cool that she's nice, but it won't attract you, or girls. It's irrelevant, when it comes to attraction.

If you're attractive to her, and nice, being nice doesn't hurt you.

Footnote: Of course, the PUAs, unlike every other "normal" person in the world, define "nice" as being a raging pvssy, so you don't want to be that.