Why are we afraid of rejection from women?

[Tenacity]

Now I ask myself why I ever feared being rejected. The answer is, because I thought one woman rejecting me was like being rejected by the entire female gender. I don't see it this way anymore. There are so many reasons why a girl might reject you and its usually more about her than you.

What you said here is key.

Back when I was afraid of rejection, it was mainly due to feeling overall unattractive. Today, as I see myself as "attractive" to most women, even when I get "rejected" it doesn't even feel, seem, nor appear like a rejection...it's more of:

- She's in a bad mood, I'll get her next time
- She's probably got a dude, I would have gotten her if she didn't have him
- She just wants to deliberately fvck with me lol
- She's out of her gawd damn mind

I can't stress this enough, but guys should approach this like a Business Operations. You need to understand your "market" (the women in your area or the women you are targeting) and you need to properly design your product (which is your looks, personality, and finances), then...you need to go out and just SELL it to the market (communicate to the market that you exist).

From there, it's just the numbers game:

- You approach 30 chicks over 30 days

- You get 18 numbers

- You go on 10 dates

- You fvck 5 of the 10 dates

- You get into a relationship with 1 of the 5 or keep spinning the 5

Every guy here needs to develop some sort of SYSTEM like I just described.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Yeah, but if you approach it too systematically it lacks soul. Your personal love life and the world of business should be distinctly separate entities. Perhaps in this business-like world we live in today, the only adventures left to us are erotic ones.

 

[Urbanyst]

Not an argument. They have this thing called EVIDENCE that you should look into.

"Citing recent DNA research, Dr. Baumeister explained that today's human population is descended from twice as many women as men. Maybe 80 percent of women reproduced, whereas only 40 percent of men did."

So you are terrified of dying alone and not reproducing? Is that your issue?

I don't have this concern. Can't relate.

Sorry.

In that case you should try for hotter women.

I go for women I want to have sex with. Don't you?

Congratulations. What do you consider great money btw?

6 Figures.

Yeah, but if you approach it too systematically it lacks soul. Your personal love life and the world of business should be distinctly separate entities. Perhaps in this business-like world we live in today, the only adventures left to us are erotic ones.

I don't think you really need a system other than inner game, some level of worldly success and good location/logistics. That seems to be all it takes.

If you have inner game and you are an attractive man, you should be good to go. Men who put on a fake clown show to attract women are trying to punch above their weight. You should not need to be fake to succeed with women.

 

[bigneil]

So you are terrified of dying alone and not reproducing? Is that your issue?

I go for women I want to have sex with. Don't you?

6 Figures.

I pointed out that if historically most men don't reproduce, and most women do, that men historically were willing to take chances to gain resources.

When someone says 6 figures, that generally means $99.999.99. There is a whole order of magnitude before you get to 7 figures.

I go for the hottest women I can get, don't you?

What the f*ck is inner game? Playing with yourself?

 

[Urbanyst]

I pointed out that if historically most men don't reproduce, and most women do, that men historically were willing to take chances to gain resources.

When someone says 6 figures, that generally means $99.999.99. There is a whole order of magnitude before you get to 7 figures.

I go for the hottest women I can get, don't you?

What the f*ck is inner game? Playing with yourself?

So $99.999.99 is chump change? That's news to me.

Yeah, I'll admit part of my motivation to become successful is to get hotter women. But it was never about dying alone or not reproducing. I could of had kids in middle school if I wanted to. A lot of sluts will sleep with almost anyone.

I don't simply go for the hottest women I can get. I go for a combination of hotness and class. There are a lot of trashy and ghetto women who are very hot, but I would never approach because I'm just not interested. I'll hook up with slutty girls, but not if their personality is too trashy. I really like a feminine personality in women. Its not enough to just be hot.

 

[bigneil]

So $99.999.99 is chump change?

It's $1288 per week after taxes. It's 50% more than a welfare mom gets in benefits.

From there, it's just the numbers game:

- You approach 30 chicks over 30 days, You get 18 numbers, - You go on 10 dates,
- You fvck 5 of the 10 dates
.

So you can f*ck 5 women in 30 days? 17% of the women you like?? Ridiculous. I have a nearly 100% success rate of getting phone numbers and I need to go back 18 months to find 5 (new) girls.

According to Louis and Copeland (2000) a successful seducer:

1) Gets a date with 1 in 10 women he likes
2) Has sex with 1 out of 4 women he dates

So the number is closer to 1 in 40, or 2.5% versus 1 in 6, or 16.67%.

So that would mean with 30 women you have a 75% chance of getting laid by one - if you are successful.

 

[Urbanyst]

It's $1288 per week after taxes. It's 50% more than a welfare mom gets in benefits.

I don't really care to be honest. I'm in a better place than I was a year ago and I'm getting a lot of easy access to hot girls. I'm not going to split hairs over what is a high income and what isn't. I'm happy with my situation and that's the important thing.

 

[Mike32ct]

I never really thought or cared about the passing on genes argument. I no longer want kids, and I don't think that there is anything special about MY genes. (I didn't choose them and don't control them anyway).

There is all this talk about women wanting to be "wanted" or "feel desired." I think the bigger issue is that plenty of men have this too.

I don't think most guys care about one or two rejections. They just may fear multiple rejections and are afraid that their "dry spell" or "losing streak" won't end, and they'll feel totally unwanted or not desired.

 

[bigneil]

I was referring to the fact that, since all women throughout history have an 80% chance of reproducing (something our race cares about, even if certain individuals do not), and since all men have a 40% chance, women can stay in their hometown and probably fulfill their genetic disposition, whereas men must take action to have the odds in their favor. This is good. This is how the human race improves over time. We are constantly culling out the lower 60% of men and lowest 20% of women. But for that reason, men instinctively must care enough in order to take that chance that they are sad when they fail (see Tom Brady crying after winning his fifth Super Bowl).

 

[Urbanyst]

I was referring to the fact that, since all women throughout history have an 80% chance of reproducing (something our race cares about, even if certain individuals do not), and since all men have a 40% chance, women can stay in their hometown and probably fulfill their genetic disposition, whereas men must take action to have the odds in their favor. This is good. This is how the human race improves over time. We are constantly culling out the lower 60% of men and lowest 20% of women. But for that reason, men instinctively must care enough in order to take that chance that they are sad when they fail (see Tom Brady crying after winning his fifth Super Bowl).

There are a lot of factors at play though. Its not just that women sit around and hand pick the best men. There is the issue of location, social groups, rape, health, food access, etc.

You are wrong if you think only the best men are reproducing and only the worst men are not reproducing.

If there were only 10 men left on earth with 6 billion women. The human race would be fine. Men can have endless kids. If there were only 10 women on earth with 6 billion men.. the human race would be in trouble. Women have limited ability to reproduce because it takes so much time and energy from their body. Men just have to squirt to have kids. So there is no limit.

 

[Mike32ct]

I have always believed the "more women reproduce than men" numbers. No disagreement there.

But to get to Urbanyst's point, there are things that happen that can lead to what we might call "less than ideal mating."

From a genetic standpoint, I would think that the IDEAL would be for every father to be a Chad (or genetically natural hot guy). But that doesn't always happen. Plenty of less than ideal male specimens father kids because of certain wild cards.

1. If an average or ugly guy gets tattoos and attracts and impregnates women after getting tats, are his genes any better? No.

2. If an average or ugly guy gets a bartending job and impregnates some women because of his "status," have his genes improved because he poured some drinks? No.

3. If an ugly guy gets ripped at the gym, he may look hot now and impregnate women, but have his genes improved? No.

4. If an average or ugly guy makes a lot of money..... You get my point. He still has less than ideal genes but may get to mate.

 

[bigneil]

If there were only 10 men left on earth with 6 billion women. The human race would be fine. Men can have endless kids.

That's exactly my point. Men are not as valuable as women, hence men have to take more chances to achieve the greatness required to have the same SMV as the average 16 year old black girl in the ghetto.

 

[RangerMIke]

On a more primal level, I think getting rejected by a female means she deems your genes as not fit to be passed on. At least that's how I see it and feel sometimes, especially with women that I'm really attracted to.

Yep. In addition, to that we evolved in a tribal culture. And we all know that women are attracted to men that OTHER women find attractive. The counter is true as well, in a tribal culture, if a woman rejected you... the chance another woman in that small tribe would want you drops dramatically. Rejection by one women could escalate to rejection by ALL women.

 

[Mike32ct]

Who gets to determine "less than ideal mating"? You?

The guy who hustles to be a DJ, bartender, any job with good access, has at least shown some ingenuity.

The guy who goes to the gym and sets himself a routine has shown determination and ambition.

etc.

These are survival traits.

Drive, ambition and ingenuity are honorable and respectable traits. No doubt. And there is certainly value in such guy being a father. And he can certainly teach his son or daughter well.

What I'm saying is what you do with your life doesn't change your DNA. That's all.

There will always be men who maybe didn't win a genetic lottery in looks or intelligence or whatever and still end up successful through hard work. That's a great thing. But I'm not sure that our genetic lines necessarily improve in that particular case.

I thought Neil was suggesting that we are becoming genetically superior over time. I'm not sure that's strictly true. That was my only point.

In the animal kingdom, it's just evolution. But human males can use certain wildcards, so it's a bit more complicated.

 

[Urbanyst]

That's exactly my point. Men are not as valuable as women, hence men have to take more chances to achieve the greatness required to have the same SMV as the average 16 year old black girl in the ghetto.

Your thinking is too extreme and one dimensional.

Men are just as valuable as women. Without men, we would not have the modern world.

A man's value is not limited to reproduction. A lot of great men who moved the world forward with science, technology and inventions never had kids.

You seem to have an inferiority complex about being a male that I don't totally understand.

 

[bigneil]

Your thinking is too extreme and one dimensional.

Men are just as valuable as women.

.

Absolutely false according to your previous comment. If one man can impregnate 1000 women, we need less men.

Why do men go off to war? Expendable.

You seem to think I made this stuff up myself. This is common knowledge. Eggs rare. Sperm common. See Stefan Molyneux.

 

[playa99]

For me, fear of rejection goes back to being a child. Being left off the football team even though I was one of the best players. Being told not to ask a girl out. Being beat up every day at age 6 by a group of ten 5-year-olds. Being called names in early high school. Family betraying me. I could go on all day.

I used to view these things as happening to me. I have realized that I can only take momentum from them. I cannot change what has happened & it cannot cause me to have irrational thoughts.

My thought process was warped & I thought that all interactions would lead to either a) rejection or b) violence. I then tried to make everything I did risk-free, which doesn't work.

 

[Roober]

Rejection is better than regret. Spinning plates provides the abundance mentality, helping one understand that he has multiple options, so if a new prospect denies them, it is no loss. When you have no fear of rejection, you will a)exude that confidence to women you approach, and b) approach more women that draw your interest. These two work hand in hand towards being more successful

 

[Urbanyst]

Absolutely false according to your previous comment. If one man can impregnate 1000 women, we need less men.

Why do men go off to war? Expendable.

You seem to think I made this stuff up myself. This is common knowledge. Eggs rare. Sperm common. See Stefan Molyneux.

Dude can you read or not? A man's value is not all about reproduction. Did you miss that part?

Science and technology is all men. If we only had 10 men on earth with 6 billion women.. sure the human race would survive, but not at the current standard of living. You can kiss most modern technology good bye. Men maintain most of what we have in the modern world. Its all men.

Women suck at fighting wild animals too. So you can kiss our safety good bye also. Wild animals will take over again and eat most of us with only women around.

You guys have some real one dimensional thinking. Its like you don't use your brains at all.

See Chateau's fundamental premise:

"If you are a man, know that the moment you were born the universe had it in for you. The deck was stacked. The deal was raw. Your expendability was programmed into your wet code before you gained self-awareness.

You got the short stick, now what? Do you contemplate it and hope for a longer one?

No. You sharpen it and jab it into the heart of every obstacle that sets itself in your way."

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-fundamental-premise/

Allow me to fix this for you:

"If you are a LOW VALUE man, know that the moment you were born the universe had it in for you. The deck was stacked. The deal was raw. Your expendability was programmed into your wet code before you gained self-awareness.

You got the short stick, now what? Do you contemplate it and hope for a longer one?

No. You sharpen it and jab it into the heart of every obstacle that sets itself in your way."

Men are at the extremes of society. At the very top its all men. At the very bottom its all men. Women are in the middle along for the ride and taking whatever they can get.

 

[Urbanyst]

The main reason men like us can actually spin plates and enjoy abundance is because such a large chunk of the male population are total losers. Women only want to choose among men on the same level as them or higher. Most women are somewhere in the middle. The very low women are outnumbered by low men.

It sucks to be a man if you are a loser. But if you are a winner or even somewhere in the middle, its much better to be a man than a woman. If you live in a developed country like the U.S. and you have Internet access to post on SoSuave, you are already way above most men in the world. Stop crying like little babies.