Whey Protein and Creatine question.

[j0n024]

Hey guys....earlier I made a post about how I wanted to get big shoulders and chest and small stomach....basically the V. I didnt get to many helpful replys so I just made do and read some journals, I was wondering if creatine would help me get the V or not....I dont want to get super huge, I'm not going for a tourney just want to be lean and look good and have some good muscle mass . I HAVE read or seen all the posts here (I have 6 pages even though it says 80+threads so dont tell me to search since I have) and the creatine posts I HAVE read dont help me question.

My question is will creatine help me get more mass added to whey protein would that help me out? I have been taking whey for a while now and I THINK I see a difference, plus I have been taking some Fish Oil tablets to get skinnier so all I need to know if Creatine would help or hurt my goal...thanks guys.

 

[I-tallionStallion]

Creatine can't hurt it. Just make sure you know how to use it.

But don't put your faith in supplements they just help the overall effect, it really comes down to a good diet.

BTW so you want a V huh? Well, where are you in your training? How long have you been doing it, and what are your numbers on bench, squat and deadlift.

I've done some research on your old H&F posts, shaunuk gave you good advice already.

Not only that, but i know you were trying to lose weight on a meal a day...which is a horrific way of doing it. I have a friend who did that, started at 172 lbs last year, told me he was going to get a six pack before me, he starved himself to 116 lbs (one meal a day)....and guess what...starvation ate his muscle and fat away and i have a more defined stomach at 202 then he does.

Jon, i'm sorry to say, but there is no quick fix to looking like how you want to. It takes dedication and a lot of time. If you are dedicated, then start a journal on here and let us help you.

This should be your workout - Either option is fine
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125444

And this should be your diet-
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134782

Cutting off carbs at night, and doing morning cardio will help tremendously
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114618

Don't believe me check my journal towards the bottom - http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=138363&page=7

I eat high calories, high fat, high protein, and low carbs and low sugar with morning cardio....there you go. Now get to work

 

[typical]

actually creatine = waste of money, end of story, the benefits are almost barely there unless your a die hard powerlifter or body builder.

Protein and a good multi should be enough to get you looking good

 

[Omen]

actually creatine = waste of money, end of story, the benefits are almost barely there unless your a die hard powerlifter or body builder.

Protein and a good multi should be enough to get you looking good

WRONG! Creatine is STILL the most researched supplement to date. It is not a waste of money. Someone needs to do some research so they actually KNOW what it does and how it works in the body.

 

[j0n024]

Thanks guys....Stal ya he did give me a good wokrout which I did incorporate into my workout (Which is why I think I see a difference) and I have tried to eat more then 1 meal aday (I am eating little meals througout ...so I DID read some posts here) and thanks for the advice and the workout for my shoulders...I will be sure to try it out.

THe reason I dont start a journal is because ....well my equipment isnt up to par as most of the rest of people here, I mean basically I have only a bench press.....and thats it lol. I am going to buy a bowflex type workout station so I should be able to workout other parts of my body but other then the freebar I have nothing.

SO if you guys have any way to get the most out of my freebar then I'll be all ears thanks guys.

 

[I-tallionStallion]

You can do almost everything with a free bar...including deadlifts, squats (would be a little tough) and bench press---including Overhead press

Purchase some dumbbells for skullcrushers and bicept curls, lateral raises. Get a pull up bar and if you can try to install in somewhere safe in the house.

Don't waste money on the bow flex...you don't need that much if you think about it. Make your own gym

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

WRONG! Creatine is STILL the most researched supplement to date. It is not a waste of money. Someone needs to do some research so they actually KNOW what it does and how it works in the body.

I mix creatine and glutamine with my whey protein and it works for me even though my exercise consist mostly of aerobic activity.

 

[j0n024]

I see ....ok ,well this weekend I will get some Bells the only think I dont know is the type of exercises to do....haha that's my biggest problem.I go into other peoples FR's and look at what they do but then I have to go and look them up on google lol and most of them I cant do since I only have a free.

I thank you for your help man but do you have any exercises other then the ones in my older posts that can help me out? Plus I take my protien in the morning and then run for a while throught my workout, is that good or should I stop?

 

[Drum&Bass]

WRONG! Creatine is STILL the most researched supplement to date. It is not a waste of money.

Why don't you think its a waste of money ?? I'm not arguing or trying to get into a fight with you I'm just curious as to why you support the use of creatine.

I've never had any reason or desire to try it but lots of people I know have used it. I only use whey, multi and fish oil but I'm far stronger and more impressive than anyone I know on the stuff (granted there are many different variables including genetics to think about).

 

[j0n024]

May I ask what's Multi? I have seen 2 guys refer to that now and am wondering what that is now.....I am on whey, and fish oil but not multi....can someone tell me what that is?

 

[I-tallionStallion]

j0n i gave you a workout. Start with that.

Effort's post-

"DAY 1(eg. Monday)
Squats 2 x 5
Squats or Leg Press 1 x 15 (lighter weight)
Good Mornings or Stiff Leg Deadlifts 2 x 10-15
Glute Ham Raise or Pullthroughs or Hyperextension 2 x 8
Calf Raises 2 x 10 --can be done with the barbell like a squat

DAY 2(eg. Wednesday)
Bench Press 2 x 5 since you don't have an incline press
Dumbbell Press (Flat/Decline) or Dips 2 x 8-10
Overhead press 2 x 8-12
skull crushers 2 x 10-15

DAY 3(eg. Friday)
Deadlifts 2 x 5
Barbell Row 2 x 8
Bicep Curl 2 x 8-10
Forearm Exercise 2 x 10-15"

In bold i made some changes and chose excerises you could do.

 

[j0n024]

Ok thanks brother....my workout was Monday,Wed,Friday so this helps...thanks man....I will be starting friday.

 

[Omen]

Why don't you think its a waste of money ?? I'm not arguing or trying to get into a fight with you I'm just curious as to why you support the use of creatine.

I've never had any reason or desire to try it but lots of people I know have used it. I only use whey, multi and fish oil but I'm far stronger and more impressive than anyone I know on the stuff (granted there are many different variables including genetics to think about).

Well, all you have to do is read up on the ATP-PCr System then realize WHY people would supplement with creatine.

In no way is it a waste of money. Most everyone will respond to it, and if not, they may not be receptive to just the plain monohydrate. This is why there are other forms out there now. Despite all of the NO products out there, MANY products still have some form of creatine in them whether AKG Chelate, DiCreatine Malate, etc etc.

Now if you ran a 2mile race, creatine wont do anything for you.

The capacity to maintain ATP levels with the energy from PCr is limited.
ATP and PCr stores can sustain the muscles’ energy needs for only 3 to 15 seconds during an all-out sprint. Beyond that point the muscles must rely on other processes for ATP formation: the glycolytic and oxidative combustion of fuels. A limiting factor during intense exercise is PCr stores.

PCr cannot be regenerated during intense exercise because ATP-derive energy is being used for muscular contraction.

Intramuscular PCr stores can only supply the energy requirements during
maximal exercise for about 10 seconds



Beyond creatine, ATP supplementation is the next step. And yes there are oral studies of ATP done. This will be the next big thing over creatine. Still kind of expensive though. I'm testing it as we speak.

 

[EFFORT]

yeah please don't waste your money on a bowflex . Use that money to buy a power rack instead or a barbell with weights at the min. You can easily make gains with that and can do the first option in where to start, just do Hack Squats.

 

[Omen]

yeah please don't waste your money on a bowflex . Use that money to buy a power rack instead or a barbell with weights at the min. You can easily make gains with that and can do the first option in where to start, just do Hack Squats.

I had never realized the cost of those things until I really paid attention one day. I was like

You could get an all in one bench that does flat, incline and prob decline and squat rack and weight for as much as one of those systems. I think they are like what...$1,700 or so?

 

[Drum&Bass]

so creatine is a performance/endurance enhancement supplement ?? for when you exhaust blood glycogen, glucose and muscle glycogen ??

Would it be cheaper to eat a piece of fruit and drink some whey during your workout ??

Could you keep your insulin levels high by eating honey or maple syrup until the end of your workout when your ready for whey isolate ??

How many people really need creatine if they eat a good pre-workout meal and are well conditioned ??

 

[mrRuckus]

More creatine in the muscle makes more ATP available to allow more work to be done before the muscle becomes fatigued.

ADP reacts with creatine to make more ATP. D=2 T=3. Gives the phosphate back or something

In the end i think it just allows you a few more reps in a set. It's not as simple as glucose or whatever being available. There are other bottlenecks.


..then a few other possible benefits.

 

[Omen]

so creatine is a performance/endurance enhancement supplement ?? for when you exhaust blood glycogen, glucose and muscle glycogen ??

Would it be cheaper to eat a piece of fruit and drink some whey during your workout ??

Could you keep your insulin levels high by eating honey or maple syrup until the end of your workout when your ready for whey isolate ??

How many people really need creatine if they eat a good pre-workout meal and are well conditioned ??

Endurance no. You run a mile race, it has no effect. It's good for sprints but beyond that, you need to be doing things with quick bouts of muscle contraction. Lifting, jumping, sprinting, etc etc. Glycogen becomes the role when you are doing endurance stuff.

TOTALLY different in how creatine works versus carbs. Not the same deal even though they can be broken down to ATP through glycolysis.

And while we are on the subject of fuel, there is an equation to tell you what type of nutrient you are using when you exercise.

Some of this will not make sense, but my point is to show you can actually figure out what is being used as fuel.

Technique commonly used to estimate percent contribution of CHO or fat to energy metabolism during exercise is referred to respiratory exchange ratio (RER)

= VCO2 produced/VO2 consumed

Can be used because fat and CHO differ in the amount of O2 and CO2 produced during oxidation

When using RER as a predictor of fuel utilization, the role that protein contributes to ATP production during exercise is ignored

RER for Fat
Palmitic acid C16H32O2

Oxidation: C16H32O2 + 23 O2  16 CO2 + 16 H2O

R = VCO2 / VO2 = 16 CO2 / 23 O2 = 0.70


RER for CHO
Glucose C6H12O6

Oxidation C6H12O6 + 6 O2  6 CO2 + 6 H2O

R = VCO2 / VO2 = 6 CO2 / 6 O2 = 1.00

RER = 0.85 = 50% CHO and 50% FAT being used

Resting RER = 0.82

In order for RER to be used as an estimate of substrate utilization during exercise the subject must have reached steady state

If a person is hyperventilating, excess CO2 is expired

 

[Drum&Bass]

thanks, most of the info is a bit over my head but I think I get the general concept of creatine.

Don't you think 40 -50 dollars is a bit pricey for extra short term energy ? Sure it would be great to squeeze out 2 or 3 more reps but for how long and how much money will it take before these results are achieved and is it even worth it for such a small increase ???

 

[oakraiderz2]

thanks, most of the info is a bit over my head but I think I get the general concept of creatine.

Don't you think 40 -50 dollars is a bit pricey for extra short term energy ? Sure it would be great to squeeze out 2 or 3 more reps but for how long and how much money will it take before these results are achieved and is it even worth it for such a small increase ???

I bought 1000g for 20$.