When will the dollar collapse?

[fertileTurtle]

Did you know Bush borrowed more money than all other presidents combined?

What will Obamas policies and actions equate to, how will they work, and what will they do?

Bush was an idiot. Obama is pretty much doing what Bush did except on a larger scale. It's failed before and it will fail again.

 

[fertileTurtle]

What is he doing?

Why is he doing it?

And when did it fail?

The capture of Osama Bin Laden would help Obama.
The death of Osama Bin Laden would help Obama. An economic recovery would help Obama.
The public does not support a take over of the health insurance industry.
So, legislative “success” in that area is doubtful, but Obama will not win, in popularity, no matter which way that one goes.
On “cap and trade” again, with high unemployment, and public support in the toilet for green propaganda, hard to see where Obama wins here.
In Iran, Obama has already screwed the pooch.
With Israel, Obama has already screwed that same pooch.
It is hard to see how the snake oil salesman can keep selling snake oil, when his potions obviously don't work!
Also, the economy will not rise from the dead until the Marxists are out of power.

Do not underestimate the political machine that placed this empty suit in the White House. Does anyone actually believe that Obama is making any of these decisions? He is told what to say and what to believe, that is the reason that he must have a TelePrompter. He is reading what someone else, most likely a cabal of socialistic liberals, tells him to say. The MSM has invested everything in Obama, and they will not allow him to fail. Obama is a tool.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

 

[Jules Verne]

Someone leans to the right.

 

[fertileTurtle]

Rather than respond to the questions proposed to you, you spew your rhetoric.

Don't quote my words and not even reply.

I answered all 3 of your questions.

 

[speakeasy]

The capture of Osama Bin Laden would help Obama.
The death of Osama Bin Laden would help Obama. An economic recovery would help Obama.

The public does not support a take over of the health insurance industry.

Maybe you should stop listening to Ann Coulter/Rush Limbaugh propaganda. Nobody is "taking over" the health insurance industry. If you are happy with your private provider, you are more than welcome to keep that provider. Obama is trying to offer something for people who have no access to affordable health care. Something which the rest of the industrial world views as a given, but which Americans view as a privilege. Certainly you must be bothered by the fact that Americans spend more per capita on health care than any EU nation or Japan, yet get less in return. Surely you must look at what doctors make here versus other industrial countries and wonder if something is broken. Or wonder why Canadians pay a fraction the cost for drugs that we do in this country and many Americans have to cross the border into Canada and Mexico to buy prescriptions because they can't freakin' afford to buy them here. The medical system in the U.S. is broken, dude. And I'm not saying that as a left wing or right wing statement, it's just a matter of fact. Rising costs are out of control.

Also, the economy will not rise from the dead until the Marxists are out of power.

Good lord. If anyone thinks this is a Marxist run country you are a serious head-case.

Do not underestimate the political machine that placed this empty suit in the White House.

The country had 8 years of your guys in office and what exactly do we have to show for it? The country was left in the worst position it's probably ever been in outside of the civil war and great depression. Yet you think your guys deserved 4 more years, with an air-headed hockey mom a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Does anyone actually believe that Obama is making any of these decisions?

I'd say Obama is doing pretty much everything he said he was going to be doing during the campaign. Nothing he's done so far has surprised me.

that is the reason that he must have a TelePrompter.

LMAO, yeah Obama is the first president to ever make use of a teleprompter! You right-wing nuts are too funny. Hell, Bush had a teleprompter and STILL couldn't even speak.

 

[Bible_Belt]

I agree that health care has problems, and to try to put left/right wing politics aside, but Obama's plan is to basically put everyone on MedicAid. That would be great except the system is already bankrupt. MedicAid in my state is over two years behind in making payments to doctors. Many specialists have stopped taking MedicAid altogether, and I don't blame them. Even when they do finally pay, if you fill out all the forms for a couple of years, they pay out 30% of the bill. Private insurance, by comparison, pays out about 60%, and does not take years to pay. Shoving millions more people into a bankrupt system that screws over doctors is basically going to stick it to the doctors...and in turn the docs have no choice but to stick it to patients. The quality of care will drop drastically. Most rural clinics will close, because a smaller percentage of people have private pay insurance in rural areas. Health care will involve traveling for hours to wait for hours to get poor care.

Obama can give everyone free health care, that is entirely possible, and it sounds great, but the reality of it would be dragging all of us down to the lowest common denominator. Just because other countries can operate tolerable socialized medicine, doesn't mean that it will work in the US. We have many more people eager to leech off the system that we have people working to pay for it. Obama is getting around that right now by printing more money and borrowing against the future; it's like paying bills with a credit card. To get back to the topic of this thread, that is when the dollar will collapse - when the sh!t hits the fan over spending what we don't have.

 

[Jules Verne]

What does everyone suggest as solutions?

 

[GQ_Confidence_1]

The whole dollar collapse thing is way overblown on the internet IMO.

-The dollar has lost 90% + of its purchasing power since 1913. Thus the FED is evil, they're out to destroy us.

What the doomsdayers dont recognize is that our standard of living during that time has gone up many times...healthcare, indoor plumbing, infrastucture, sanitation, etc. Why would you rather be living in 1913 or now?

What currency hasnt gone down since 1913? They all have.

The American economy has too much momentum and too much power to fall off the cliff tomorrow. It'd be like the Titanic making a sudden U turn. Even in this "depresssion", the worst in 50 years, people are still living awfully good.

In past depressions, people starved and died. This is the only depression in history where people are still playing playstation and eating panera bread. We're probably the fattest country to ever go through a depression.

In a real depression, everyone would be falling to 110 lbs.

-The dollar index itself is not really that bad, historically. Look at a 30 year chart of it. Its nothing unprecidented.

A more accurate statement is not...the dollar is crashing, its doomsday. Weren't we suppose to turn into a shanty town last year? And the atms stop working?

But getting back in line with reality, back in line with the norm of the last 30 years. Instead of a 2,500 sq ft house with 3 suv's and 3 playstations, its a 1,600 sq ft house, with 1 or 2 cars and 1 ipod or xbox.

 

[Rhoto]

If you believe conspiracy theorists (who have been right on these issues for the past couple of years) the new world order plans for the dollar to collapse before 2011.

2010 is being talked about as one of the worst years in history and the beginning of the end. A new 100% fatal man made virus being released next year along with the total destruction of the u.s economy is what we are being told to prepare for.

lol. What were they right about, the economic collapse? It was predicted a long, long time ago. Ever heard of the Gaussian Coupla forumla?

Currency maintains value as long as the people involved in the transactions accept it. Really that simple.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Dude, thats way off the mark. US debt is at unsustainable levels. You guys are looking at stagflation here, possibly hyperinflation in the next 10-15 years. You cant print money like that and expect it not to come back and bite you in the arse. You will pay for it and its going to be a 25 year slog to get out of that ****.

The Asians have been buying US government bonds to keep the value of their own currency down, not because US bonds are a great place to invest. They do that to ensure their own population cannot afford to purchase many of the goods they manufacture and to make sure that export margins are high. At the same time, it keeps their goods cheaper. Its an assault on the first world manufacturing sector. They also do that to ensure that their wages are lower and they can roll out infrastructure quicker off the back of that cheaper labor. They spend in yuan, they sell in dollars!

The day is going to come when no one is going to buy American bonds anymore. It almost happened a few months back. When it does happen, the dollar will crash.There will be a depression from it, but from that the Asian, Indian and Russian currency will increase in value. As it does, so to will the purchasing power of those people. When their purchasing power increases, so to will the middle class economy that drives consumer based spending. Within 5-10 years, the infrastructure in China and India will be at the stage where they are ready to jump to the next step of their industrialization. That next step is the emergence of a middle class that has the same purchasing power as the middle class in first world economies.

India has 300 million people who they classify as middle class. That excluses the wealthy and the poor. 300 MILLION. They ARE middle class by indian standards and live in the 4x2 McMansions driving SUV's. The problem is that their currency has no value and they cannot purchase many of the goods they manufacture or the Asians manufacture. Once that changes, the world does not need the shopping mall that is the US anymore.

Saying that, you yanks are probably the most productive people on the planet. Even when the dollar does fall, despite a few hard years, I have no doubt that you will see its manufacturing sector revived. Not to mention it still feeds half the planet.

Personally, the sooner we go back to a gold standard, the better.

 

[fertileTurtle]

Maybe you should stop listening to Ann Coulter/Rush Limbaugh propaganda. Nobody is "taking over" the health insurance industry. If you are happy with your private provider, you are more than welcome to keep that provider.

With all due respect, speakeasy, what difference does it make if I can still go to my provider when I have to pay for someone else too? That really doesn't make it any better for me that I have to pay more in taxes on top of what I pay in medical bills.

I already pay enough in hidden taxes every day for everything as in how much providers of goods and services are taxed and those costs are always passed on to the consumers. People who think that the rich should be punished and should "pay their fair share" don't understand that the rich really just absorb the taxes and hike the prices. I don't know what the real number is, but if we added up all the taxes government already takes from us in what we buy alone, we would probably come to the conclusion that they already have enough without federal and state income taxes.

How much do you really need the government doing for you anyway? Should we pay them to wipe our butts? This is how silly it's getting especially when the private sector is much better at delivering service than the government will ever be.

The U.S. will go broke unless medical care is taken away from the government. Free enterprise is the answer. More competition, not more government, will give us plenty of choices, high quality and lower cost.

Obama is trying to offer something for people who have no access to affordable health care. Something which the rest of the industrial world views as a given, but which Americans view as a privilege. Certainly you must be bothered by the fact that Americans spend more per capita on health care than any EU nation or Japan, yet get less in return. Surely you must look at what doctors make here versus other industrial countries and wonder if something is broken. Or wonder why Canadians pay a fraction the cost for drugs that we do in this country and many Americans have to cross the border into Canada and Mexico to buy prescriptions because they can't freakin' afford to buy them here. The medical system in the U.S. is broken, dude. And I'm not saying that as a left wing or right wing statement, it's just a matter of fact. Rising costs are out of control.

If you really look at those systems you start to see what a joke they really are. Yes Canada may have lower drug costs up front, but how much money is the public paying to lower those costs? Everything costs something. Sorry, but the work needed to make drugs and medical equipment, to build hospitals and to train and pay doctors is not going to somehow magically become less just because a bunch of bureaucrats get involved. Doctors are already leaving the health industry and even more will leave if, like in Japan, their salaries are capped. Is that what you want? Cheap healthcare? You get what you pay for one way or the other.

You mentioned Canada. They have to come over here to the USA to get certain kinds of treatment and surgery because either it's not available in the inferior system up there or they have to be put on a long waiting list. Is that what you want? The government deciding when you will get to have your heart transplant or even if you can have treatment at all? Did you hear about the VA hospital giving colonoscopies without even sterilizing the equipment and now there are confirmed cases of hepatitis as a result? You really want the government, which screws everything up, to be involved with your health care? They already bankrupted the sectors they have control over now. It's a big joke and we are the butt of it.

Good lord. If anyone thinks this is a Marxist run country you are a serious head-case.

Sorry. I used the wrong word. Progressives. Now is that better?

The country had 8 years of your guys in office and what exactly do we have to show for it? The country was left in the worst position it's probably ever been in outside of the civil war and great depression.

Jesus Christ, speakeasy. Do you really think that what Bush did in spending more money than any other POTUS is anyone's idea of laissez faire capitalism? He was a fiscal leftist on many levels. And where are all these jobs the stimulus package was supposed to create? Hmmmm?

Yet you think your guys deserved 4 more years, with an air-headed hockey mom a heartbeat away from the presidency.

She’s been a governor of a state. What has Obambi done to make him qualified?

LMAO, yeah Obama is the first president to ever make use of a teleprompter! You right-wing nuts are too funny. Hell, Bush had a teleprompter and STILL couldn't even speak.

There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.

 

[fertileTurtle]

What does everyone suggest as solutions?

Localized charity and welfare with tax benefits. Let cities and counties offer free clinics like we have where I'm at and let the problem of healthcare be a local and state issue. Otherwise, privatize the entire system.
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[fertileTurtle]

We have many more people eager to leech off the system that we have people working to pay for it.

The greatest problem known to every republic ever created. Sooner or later the have-nots will figure out that they can elect rulers who will take from the achievers and give to the do-nothings. Then comes total economic collapse.

 

[speakeasy]

I already pay enough in hidden taxes every day for everything as in how much providers of goods and services are taxed and those costs are always passed on to the consumers. People who think that the rich should be punished and should "pay their fair share" don't understand that the rich really just absorb the taxes and hike the prices. I don't know what the real number is, but if we added up all the taxes government already takes from us in what we buy alone, we would probably come to the conclusion that they already have enough without federal and state income taxes.

You're basically arguing that raising taxes on the wealthy will lead to CPI inflation. Do you have examples to point to of that happening in the past? Or are you just taking talking points from Rush?

How much do you really need the government doing for you anyway? Should we pay them to wipe our butts? This is how silly it's getting especially when the private sector is much better at delivering service than the government will ever be.

I'm not saying we need a France style cradle to grave system, but we need the power of government to fix the for-profit medical system because it is broken. Doesn't it bother you that the medical industry is more beholden to shareholders that demand profits than to your well-being? That should bother you. There was an excellent documetary on pbs called "Sick Around the World" http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/

It's not a Michael Moore type documentary with an agenda, it just compared pros and cons of different health care systems in other industrial nations, and how we can incorporate some of the things Japan does, some of the things Switzerland does, some of the things Germany does that will help make things run better. It doesn't mean we have a complete government take over of the system. I'd highly recommend watching that video at that link, it's pretty eye-opening.

The U.S. will go broke unless medical care is taken away from the government. Free enterprise is the answer. More competition, not more government, will give us plenty of choices, high quality and lower cost.

We've had free market health care all along and it's not improving. Aren't you bothered by the fact that Americans spend more per capita on health care than all other industrial nations, yet we do not have the highest life expectancy, or the lowest infant mortality rates or a host of other markers. There are some 3rd world countries that have lower infant mortality rates than us. Remember, the medical industry is beholden to share holders that DEMAND PROFITS. Not to YOUR health. Doctors often get kickbacks from pharmaceutical companies for prescribing costly drugs. The system needs serious reform.

If you really look at those systems you start to see what a joke they really are. Yes Canada may have lower drug costs up front, but how much money is the public paying to lower those costs? Everything costs something. Sorry, but the work needed to make drugs and medical equipment, to build hospitals and to train and pay doctors is not going to somehow magically become less just because a bunch of bureaucrats get involved. Doctors are already leaving the health industry and even more will leave if, like in Japan, their salaries are capped. Is that what you want? Cheap healthcare? You get what you pay for one way or the other.

The Japanese have the highest life expectancy rates in the world and top notch health care. Perhaps you could find a better example of a failed medical sytem.

You mentioned Canada. They have to come over here to the USA to get certain kinds of treatment and surgery because either it's not available in the inferior system up there or they have to be put on a long waiting list. Is that what you want? The government deciding when you will get to have your heart transplant or even if you can have treatment at all? Did you hear about the VA hospital giving colonoscopies without even sterilizing the equipment and now there are confirmed cases of hepatitis as a result? You really want the government, which screws everything up, to be involved with your health care? They already bankrupted the sectors they have control over now. It's a big joke and we are the butt of it.

You do realize that private insurance exists in Canada right? At least they have a choice. If you can't afford it here, well, you just die.

She’s been a governor of a state. What has Obambi done to make him qualified?

Yeah, governor of a state with more polar bears than people, has never travelled outside the country or met with a foreign leader and wouldn't even be allowed to speak to the press for fear of looking like the empty-headed dimwit she is.

 

[speakeasy]

Personally, the sooner we go back to a gold standard, the better.

The cat's out of the bag on that. We can't go back to the gold standard, it's way too late, that would cause a deflation bomb that would collapse the economy.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

The cat's out of the bag on that. We can't go back to the gold standard, it's way too late, that would cause a deflation bomb that would collapse the economy.

I think its coming anyway.

If the US loses its credit rating, and it can happen with the mounting debt and deficits, there is no reserve currency. They could move to the Euro, which has so many structural problems. They could move to the swiss frank, but then they open themselves up to the same short comings we have now.

Going to back to a gold standard might not be the worst thing. There should be a limit to how much wealth there is in the world. How else do they determine value?

Interesting times though.

 

[Upside]

the infrastructure in China and India will be at the stage where they are ready to jump to the next step of their industrialization.

Everything we all say is speculation. We can only predict what happens and more often than not people are wrong, but anyway...

Have you been to India? The city is designed as if a seven year old was playing SimCity (I.E the infrastructure is garbage) and China depends so much on the US and Western Europe for exports. If the US and EU start upping their manufacturing to a certain level (like they should, would REALLY help turn the economic climate around) China will have no one to trade to since the western world would be spending less on trade and more on military and etc. The Chinnese government achknowldges the crutial role the U.S plays in their own economic growth.

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Everything we all say is speculation. We can only predict what happens and more often than not people are wrong, but anyway...

Have you been to India? The city is designed as if a seven year old was playing SimCity (I.E the infrastructure is garbage) and China depends so much on the US and Western Europe for exports. If the US and EU start upping their manufacturing to a certain level (like they should, would REALLY help turn the economic climate around) China will have no one to trade to since the western world would be spending less on trade and more on military and etc. The Chinnese government achknowldges the crutial role the U.S plays in their own economic growth.

Mumbai. And its a **** pit

Look, the difference between the US and Chinese/Indian "middle class" is the purchasing power of their currency.

The world relies on the shopping mall that is the USA now, but what happens when the dollar loses value and you have no purchasing power? The only thing that has saved the dollar from falling has been Asian intervention. If Japan, China and Russia were not buying your bonds, the dollar would have collapsed YEARS AGO. If they were not trying to artificially inflate the value of the US Dollar, the dollar would have depreciated years ago. How can the value of the dollar be maintained if deficits are through the roof AND you are basically printing money. The US is broke.

The shift from west to east is not going to be a smooth transition. The US dollar will collapse and we will see a run on it. When that happens, you will see a large percentage of those exports from Asian markets finding homes within their own countries because the purchasing power of their own currency would have increased. That does not mean its going to be a painless process. On the contrary, there will be a world wide depression because of it. The reality of that though is that the US is going to be the country worst hit because it is used to a higher standard of living. They will feel it more.

You cannot print money and think its going to retain value. The world is losing faith in the dollar. This is not doomsday prophecy, this is based on nothing but basic market fundamentals.