When a Woman Likes You... (DJs Please Add to This Thread)

jammer

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PrettyBoyAJ said:
This is very self defeating and what a normal person would think. These girls have options but how many of these brothers are thorough confident brothers? These dudes out here are desperate, dusty, and just plain duck dudes.
Pretty Boy, you know that and I know that. But women usually can't tell the difference. That's why they play the way they do so often, it's their way of trying to weed out the good guys from the bad ones. But because women are such imperfect creatures, they usually end up weeding out the good ones and keeping the bad ones instead.

PrettyBoyAJ said:
When I step to a female that looks good I know when I step to her I'm bringing in a different energy that other brothers aren't. I step with 100% confidence and I know I am that dude. Ok these girls are getting approached all day but I know there wasn't one dude that could compare to me so that sht shouldn't be too much irrelevant.

If a girl isn't 100% co-operative then you just don't need to mess with her. It's called the anti-dump method and is generally what I go by. I haven't always gone by this but I can tell you that when I didn't go by this method the ***** was never worth it.
And it's great to have this confidence. But we're not talking about guys being confident, we're talking about women being liars and flakes. This is what they are, this is what they do.

All of the confidence/looks/game/skill won't ensure that a girl provides the levels of interest that Harry suggests is required. This type of thinking assumes that women are capable of being logical and normal.

But all the experienced guys here know that this is not possible.
 
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BeDJ

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Re-calibrate your Interest Detector

A woman with high interest will make it easy for you to date her. Playing games and making it tough is a clear sign of low interest on her part. Many men will play their game because they think it is GAME. It's not, its far from it. By jumping through her hoops, you are rewarding her low interest behavior. Imagine if all men NEXT low interest women instead of stroking their ego - wouldn't dating be easier for all of us?

The closet betas will never willingly dismiss a woman.
 
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BeDJ

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sarcastic sam said:
Beginning DJ, i think your name says it all when it comes to this stuff. You're a beginner and it shows, even though you've been here for years.

I've seen and read your journal, and I can understand that a guy like you will believe this stuff about girls acting normal because when they're 3 and 4's like the ones you date, they do act like this.

But even these girls don't act too perfect for too long.
Good motivation :up:
 

jammer

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Harry Wilmington said:
I think this is where you and I differ, and why my advice may be seen as "bad" to you. Despite the various girls I've been with, I've always been relationship-minded and marriage-minded. I can tell you that I have definitely not been with 70 or 80 women, but part of that is because I've gone into most hook ups with the idea that I'd like for things to go beyond that.

Therefore, you would be correct in saying that my advice would have prevented you from 95% of your hook-ups because my advice is to help guys get in relationships, not just have sex with everything walking.
And Harry this is my whole point: your advice is terrible because it basically has guys looking for a perfect girl, who will come along perhaps once (if lucky) in their entire lives. Your advice is not practical, and relies on finding an almost perfect girl who will always act the way we think a girlfriend should: ie, she always answers our calls on time, she's always keeps dates, she always shows high interest, etc etc. But we all know that such is not the case in the real world, Nobody is this perfect, neither male nor female. It's just that guys don't flake as much and all that other stuff because the reality is that, generally, we men don't have as many options and as much experience as women do in dating.

Harry Wilmington said:
The reason my advice is simplistic is because - and again, this is based on my experience - when a girl likes you, she makes things so easy for you that the things you need to do to keep her really ARE simple in nature. "Don't be needy," "Wait for her to initiate kino," "texting KILLS relationships," "Wait 3 months before making her your girlfriend" - these are all stated very simplistically because (a) they don't really need to be expanded out much more than that (though I'm always happy to do so), and (b) because, as simplistic as they are, I've found they WORK for guys looking to keep a girl around long term. Again, if you're just trying to go for the easy pump and dump, this advice wouldn't apply to you.
Do you see why your advice is so naive and unhelpful? You basically state if you find a great girl who doesn't screw you around, marry her. Well thanks for that genius post, but everyone already knew that. The problem is, extremely few women actually act like the way you want them to.

Harry Wilmington said:
Exactly. Well, not "perfect" - no one is perfect and even a girl that's doing everything right will have the occasional slip up and/or "sh*t test" day - but pretty close. But again, my advice is based on the idea of a guy wanting to be in a long-term relationship leading to marriage. So yes, a sane, rational girl who wants to keep her man happy long-term WILL do these things, and would therefore be the "perfect" girl to marry.

No, that's what you CHOOSE to believe. Again, my influences growing up showed that these women DO exist. If you have not been privy to seeing it, I feel sorry for you - it's quite a beautiful thing to see, actually.
You know Harry, something tells me that under your naive outer shell you really do realize that women are not quite as perfect and beautiful as you seem to think they are.


Harry Wilmington said:
Again, they don't have to always act "normal" (which is, again, open to interpretation), but they DO exist. I've seen them - my brother is married to a girl like this now, and I'm currently dating one myself. Soo......
And how long are these relationships going to last? As long as the ones you previously had?

Harry Wilmington said:
I just got back from seeing my entire family for Christmas. I'm the oldest of our current generation, but a lot of my younger male cousins are married and brought their wives with them for a get together at my great aunt's house. Like I said, their wives are knockouts who know their place. They are respectful to my cousins but are also gentle, kind, loving, and willing to do for them if need be. My older male cousins/uncles from the previous generation chose the same. Granted, I'm from Virginia originally, so maybe it has something to do with that old school down-south charm and kindness, but yes - for the majority of my male cousins and uncles, these are the types of women they got with. It's not a BS comment, it's the REALITY I live in.
Firstly, I don't really know what your idea of a "knockout" is. However, I have to say (and I'm not saying this to be mean) but your posts are full of naivete and simplemindedness that assumes women are perfect and beautiful, and that all of the relationships in your family are going great. If so, your family has to win the prize for being the best looking, most normal functioning family ever!

Harry Wilmington said:
I knew this was coming. For starters, you're making the assumption they all dumped me - not the case. Some women make a good starting impression and then, 3 or 4 months out they start to slack off, so I dumped them.
Don't get defensive, Harry. I never said you were the one who got dumped. I never assumed this, you did. All I asked you was that, if these girls were so perfect as you say they were, why aren't you still with them? And you said that things happened that make the relationship break up.

So this proves my point: the women in your life were not acting perfect and treating you the way you should have been treated, otherwise you would still be with them. So if these women were not treating you well midway through your relationship when they knew you, how can you expect them to treat you perfect and not be flakes early on when they just met you??

Harry Wilmington said:
Second, I never said all the women I dated were perfect. What I said was, when a woman is interested in you, she will show you the various items I mentioned.
Harry, if a woman does everything you mentioned in your original post all the time, then this is a perfect woman that does not exist. This has been my whole point.

Harry Wilmington said:
But again, that's if you're going for the long-term. If you're just trying to up your bed post notches, please ignore everything I say from now on :up:
But since your long terms haven't worked out, what you're saying does not work out for long term relationships either.

So basically, your advice (1) doesn't work for pump and dump and (2) doesn't work for long term relationships either.
 

pinkfl

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Here is my "list" for my behavior when I like a guy:

I respond to messages; and eagerly. I want to get to know you after all, so I will want conversation. I will give short messages that don't invite further conversation if I am not interested.
I will invite you over for dinner and I will happily cook for you. I don't pay for meals...I basically see going out for dinner as a treat.
I will invite you to spend time with me and my friends. When you ask me out, as long as it is either in person or over the phone, I will say yes. I don't accept text message dates.
I will be a positive supporter. You tell me you did something awesome at work? I will praise you. Sore from the gym? Shoulder massage and a protein smoothie will be offered.
I will likely keep things platonic for a while...get a sense of who you are as a person. Figure out if you have your **** together or if you are just another manchild.
I will be like a very close friend...I will share my successes with you. I will be very open and communicative.
Despite being fairly reserved sexually speaking I will be affectionate. Like I said, platonic until I get to know you and trust you.
A girl that likes you will welcome you into her life, not just her bed.
 

Trump

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Harry Wilmington said:
The whole "multitude of options" thing is a lie - at least in the way guys think about it. Men think differently from women in terms of getting a mate. We see a beautiful girl who's a 9 on a 10 scale and think to ourselves, "Man, I have no chance - she's so hot, she can get any girl she wants."

This is what is holding you guys back from getting with hot girls. You associate her hotness level - which is a totally made up thing, BTW (more on this later) - with her ability to have a suitor. And yet, the majority of women who get married are, on average, in the 5 to 7 department on the looks scale. Why, you ask?

BECAUSE THE HOT GIRL IS NOT BEING ASKED OUT, THAT'S WHY.
Come on bro, a hot girl is not going to be associated with a normal average guy who makes regular money. They were blessed with good genes that have value and are going to milk it. Since a hot girls ego gets stroked when a normal guy asks her out and she puts him down, it makes the guy not even try.

It's akin to applying to be the president of Coke than a employee at Walmart. You don't do it because you know they won't look at the application.

Also, girls' choices aren't as abundant as you think they are. I have plenty of fine friends who are girls and get hit on regularly by all types of guys... but having that multitude of guys doesn't make their choice any easier. Girls have it harder at times than we do when it comes to picking a mate - for most of them (again, I'm making a generality), they're looking for someone who can protect them, has a good gene pool for making babies, isn't going to harm them with his added strength, and a plethora of other things guys don't even have to think about.
Fair enough, but this is AFTER they have slept with all the hot guys and models they can handle.

You have guys that still live home with their parents; guys who have 9 or 10 children by six women; guys who are on drugs; guys who only want to hit it and quit it; guys who cheat; guys who can't afford to take care of himself, let alone go out on dates; guys who smell bad all of the time; guys who can't stop doing AFC-related things like texting her all the time or acting overjealous when she hangs out with co-workers; guys who don't have manners... I could go on and on.
This is the type of guys most hot girls want...excitement, drama, not knowing the future. I dated a model once and was perfect on the date with her, had money, nice car, kino, blah, blah, blah, she was distracted. Told her I got arrested once...she woke up like you wouldn't believe and started asking all sorts of questions.

And so, once again, it boils down to YOUR reality of the situation. You could view the dating game as one where hot girls won't date you because they'd never choose you based on how you look; or, you could view the dating game as one where hot girls WILL date you because everyone else is afraid, but you know how to trigger things in her that will have her DYING to be with you. I choose the latter, and I've liked my results thus far. (And, in case you're wondering: I'm not a 10 on the looks scale - not ugly, but not a model either - and I don't have muscles to speak of. I just have a LOT of confidence and believe I'm the better option than the other options a girl has coming to her.)
Would have to agree with jammer here...the advice is for models or guys who own boats, or you've and it really easy dating models and are rich or fabulous looking.

It is NASTY out there.
 

Purefilth

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pinkfl said:
I will invite you over for dinner and I will happily cook for you. I will be a positive supporter. You tell me you did something awesome at work? I will praise you. Sore from the gym? Shoulder massage and a protein smoothie will be offered.
throw in a sammich and you got a hubby here ;)
 

VladPatton

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pinkfl said:
Here is my "list" for my behavior when I like a guy:

I respond to messages; and eagerly. I want to get to know you after all, so I will want conversation. I will give short messages that don't invite further conversation if I am not interested.
I will invite you over for dinner and I will happily cook for you. I don't pay for meals...I basically see going out for dinner as a treat.
I will invite you to spend time with me and my friends. When you ask me out, as long as it is either in person or over the phone, I will say yes. I don't accept text message dates.
I will be a positive supporter. You tell me you did something awesome at work? I will praise you. Sore from the gym? Shoulder massage and a protein smoothie will be offered.
I will likely keep things platonic for a while...get a sense of who you are as a person. Figure out if you have your **** together or if you are just another manchild.
I will be like a very close friend...I will share my successes with you. I will be very open and communicative.
Despite being fairly reserved sexually speaking I will be affectionate. Like I said, platonic until I get to know you and trust you.
A girl that likes you will welcome you into her life, not just her bed.

You mean you actually answer your cell? Heh...learn something new every day!
 

NewAndImproved

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I see where Harry is coming from...

However, I think the premise "confusing" is somewhat wrong, though, simply because it assumes that the guy has the OPTIMAL skills to interact, communicate with and lead women.

Most guys don't. I definitely don't. I'm getting better at understanding the subtext behind a woman's words and actions, but that doesn't mean I'm anywhere near mastery. As a result, I'm sometimes "confused" by an interested girl.

For example, I recently was experimenting with very sexual and direct game on a girl. My frame was crazy. She was older (but hot) and kept trying to get me to give away my age, what I did etc but I didn't budge. Not long after, I got her to say in her language that she wanted to go home with me. I tried to hide my excitement.

But, then my inexperience showed. Instead of getting the hell out of there, or pulling back and playing it cool, I went with her friends onto the dance floor, starting really grinding up on her like a horny college kid, and her buying temp plummeted: "I'm not that kind of girl," she said. Game over.

Now in the moment, I was confused as hell...Didn't she just say??? But now I've got that reference experience. I know what I did wrong.

What I'm saying then is that what a lot of guys call "**** tests" or "confusing behavior" is the dude just not getting what the girl is trying to communicate. When I sucked with women, almost all behavior a woman exhibited was "confusing" -- and many of those girls were interested!!

Are there guys who from the outside looking in are holding on to a pipe dream that the girl is "playing hard to get?" Sure, and some of this advice is good. But I gotta disagree with the idea that all guys are equipped to judge what is confusing and what isn't, especially like in my example above, when I was the cause of that "confusing" behavior!
 

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Harry Wilmington said:
Hey guys:
WHEN A WOMAN LIKES YOU...
1. She returns all messages/calls in a timely manner
2. She accepts all date invites and/or counter-offers if she can't make the suggested date/time
3. She doesn't flinch when you try to touch her
4. She is willing to have sex with you as early as the first date
5. She takes initiative to call YOU up and ask YOU out on a date
6. She doesn't go 2 weeks without contacting you - heck, she can barely go 2 DAYS without contacting you
7. She'll go on vacation and still hit you up every so often
8. She voluntarily pays for the occasional meal or date outing
9. She doesn't tell you she's "confused" about her feelings for you - there is no confusion because she likes you and ONLY you
10. She doesn't try to invite friends along on your dates
11. She doesn't come over your house and leave you with blue balls
12. She gives you compliments about the way you look, act, smell, etc.
13. She will know what your invitation to your house means... and still want to show up
14. The words "let's just be friends" are never spoken by her
15. It won't matter what your life situation is - you could be poor, living on someone else's couch, with a lousy job and no car, and she'll still want to be seen in public with you
16. She won't send you mixed signals - a girl that likes you doesn't want you confused about how she feels about you
17. It won't matter how long it's been since her last boyfriend (2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months, etc.) since she won't have feelings for him after being around you
18. She won't keep talking to ex-boyfriends
19. You can be as goofy as you'd like, and she'll be right there with you acting just as goofy
20. Her friends won't be able to persuade her not to date you

Well, that's all I got for now - feel free to add to the list, guys!
The ones I highlighted are me right now. As funny as that may sound. :crazy:

I'm currently broke with no job or school for like a year or less now. She offers to pay for everything when we go out, until I can find a job again. Cooks for me and do w/e I say. Wanting to start a family when I have my life on track. Is starting to be really jealous when I play with her about other girls and always want to go out wherever I go or she'll get mad, again being jealous. Her being jealous is a good sign but too much will turn into clingyness n such so I try to not let her cross that line.

Overall, I say the list is somewhat right, like 85%+ right for me haha. I disagree with the "She will have sex with you as early as the first date". If she does that, I don't think I can trust her from there on. I will know she has done that more than once for sure.

Each guy on here has different list, so it's cool. Same with girls. They all show different qualities when they like you. Sure, all girls will show similar qualities, but some just take longer to show. It's your job as a man/boy to bring them out of her. Be who you are, don't listen to the myth of being a jerk/azzhole get girls. Just my guess. :eek:

P.S the guys on here need to be careful of flirting with the chicks on here. I'd take them with a grain of salt. It could be a girl behind that computer screen, but a face of a orangutan. Haha.
 

Purefilth

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sozzz said:
P.S the guys on here need to be careful of flirting with the chicks on here. I'd take them with a grain of salt. It could be a girl behind that computer screen, but a face of a orangutan. Haha.
Shoulder massage and a sammich overrules monkeyface bro - dont be so shallow!:crackup:
 

VladPatton

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I'd say Harry is correct. Out of experience and observing friends in LTRs, normal girls without any underlying mental conditions will not give you a destructively hard time in a relationship. Why would they? Everyone wants a happy, stable life. To have a mentality of 'all girls will give you a hard time' is unfortunate. No one said it is easy to find, but there are millions of people out there that are in such a relationship.

You may of taken the red pill, but until you liberate your mind of self-damaging negativity you are not truly free.
 

Harry Wilmington

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@Jammer: I can see this is going to be a continuous circular discussion, where I attempt to disprove you by counter-arguing what you're saying and vice-versa. Frankly, that's not what I started this thread for, and I'm starting to feel like we're repeating ourselves. I don't get into circular conversations with women, so I'm definitely not going to do it with you. It's clear that our views and/or life experiences with women are different - mine apparently being much more positive than yours - so there's really no point in continuing the conversation.

I will, however, respond to a couple of the things you mentioned in your last argument (which I couldn't respond to until now due to SS's 10-post-per-day limit):
All I asked you was that, if these girls were so perfect as you say they were, why aren't you still with them? And you said that things happened that make the relationship break up.
First off, I have not once, in the entire argument, said that girls were perfect. The list I started was simply a starter list that others were supposed to add onto. I've read a LOT of post on here with guys dealing with girls doing the opposite of all the things mentioned on my list, so I mentioned them. Perhaps if I had just mentioned 1 thing instead of 20, you wouldn't have been so confused.

(FYI, Here's number 21, based on another thread I just read: When a girl likes you, she gives out her phone number to you when you ask for it.)

Anyway...I already answered this question, but I'll go into more detail. Like I said before, my reason for getting into relationships is to find someone to marry. Once I figured out how to get girls, I also recognized that it's not just about catching them, but keeping them around. In order to do this, a guy needs to have his own life in order and have some kind of stability - and, until recently, I did not. And since I knew I needed to get myself together first, it was I who decided to not get into anything long term until I knew I could take care of someone besides just myself. I didn't date for almost a year because I was focused on getting myself together.

Once I did that, I started dating - and dating is like sales: you usually have to meet up with a LOT of prospects and cold-calling before you get that person that is right. And, like I've mentioned in other posts, it's not something you know right away - it takes about 3 or 4 months before a person gets relaxed around you and starts showing you the "real' version of themselves. So, I'd go out, date a girl who I thought had these qualities, and in month 3 or 4 I'd find out these things weren't always there and I'd dump them. They might have been great girls for someone else, but they weren't okay for me in the long run.

This, by the way, doesn't negate the list I made. I'm currently dating a wonderful girl who does all the stuff on my list and more. However, in order to get a girl like this you have to (a) meet a girl who's clinically sane (i.e no bi-polar disorder, parents aren't divorced or didn't fight much while she was growing up, no daddy issues, no rapes or molestations, etc.); and (b) you have to believe these kinds of girls exists. Why? Because they DO. And unless you plan on going gay or joining an anti-women hating group, you need to start believing that there really ARE girls out there who aren't out to get you or do you harm.

And, while you're right in a sense that my long-terms haven't worked up til now - which, again, is because I took time off to get myself right first - my advice is also based on things that worked for the influences I had around me growing up; cousins and aunts and uncles and grandparents and parents who have all been in happy, loving, long-term relationships that I've been observing for 30 YEARS now. If you choose to be cynical, that's your right, and I feel sorry for you. The last thing I'd want to have is a bitter, negative view of the world that doesn't allow me to let love in simply because a few women did me wrong in the past.

@sozz I'm glad you agree with most of the list. As for the "sex" part, it's really more of a "she can view herself having sex with you" type of thing. Most of my hook-ups would happen on the second date, but I'd be doing some serious heavy petting on the first - always a good sign for next time :)

@VladPatton Well put, and I think that's why some people on here have a hard time believing any good girls are out there. They chase after these girls with BPD, or attitude problems, and get frustrated when they don't get the results they want, when they really shouldn't be going after those kinds of girls in the first place. That, combined with their inability to be patient and/or be indifferent really hurts them in the long run.
 

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BeginningDJ said:
A woman who likes you will make it easy for you.

WHEN A WOMAN DOESN'T LIKE YOU...

1. Doesn't respond to your date offers - women always have their phone.
2. Doesn't pause for a few seconds to allow you to make a move at the end of a first date.
3. Dodges your kiss close.
4. Never initiates contact.
5. Goes more than 4 days without contacting you.
6. Wants to take things slow.
I second this. I also second women having a multitude of options.

Harry, your original post list of good signs is great and I agree with it. However, this right here is total bullsh*t. Let me break it down.

Harry Wilmington said:
BECAUSE THE HOT GIRL IS NOT BEING ASKED OUT, THAT'S WHY.


Ok, why are the sales of PUA guides going up so damn much? To get the hot girl and more. But this bullsh*t line is an advertising ploy for PUA salespeople. Guys ask out hot girls all the time. Online and in real life. How come you think their egos are so damn big? Think about it.

You see, even the hottest of girls isn't sure that she's all that hot. And she's right to think that way because hotness is subjective to the person viewing her. I've seen guys post up pictures of "10" girls on here that I wouldn't even try masturbating to. She's waiting to be asked out just like all the so-called "homely" girls...

Yeah, but only by the "10" guy who's a young muscular millionaire. The homely girls go after these types of men first, but end up marrying an average Joe. Women seem to be dating up while men seem to be dating down. Because men have heavily inflated the price of love, sex, and companionship.

...but the problem is, all the guys around her are waiting for HER to walk up to THEM and make a move. Because, in their heads, SHE is the one that should make the decision. And so, while you're sitting there thinking SHE'S the one who should choose you since she's so hot and you might not be good enough for her, I'M the one walking up to her, flirting with her, getting the digits, taking her out and eventually screwing her.

Just because you make a move doesn't mean you'll win. But guess what, you miss all the shots you don't take. Harry, you took a shot, and somehow won. It's just like buying a lottery ticket!

Also, girls' choices aren't as abundant as you think they are. I have plenty of fine friends who are girls and get hit on regularly by all types of guys... but having that multitude of guys doesn't make their choice any easier. Girls have it harder at times than we do when it comes to picking a mate - for most of them (again, I'm making a generality), they're looking for someone who can protect them, has a good gene pool for making babies, isn't going to harm them with his added strength, and a plethora of other things guys don't even have to think about.

All women have options. Women have lots of guys for different things. One of them is getting the pu$$y constantly, while the others are just orbiters she's using for validation and teasing, such as one man is the mechanic, one is the computer geek, one is the provider, one is the chauffeur. one is the Move-my-things-around-do-my favors-but-you-ain't gettin'-laid guy, some are the Cokblock crew, etc. etc.
Read between the lines. Women lust for alpha males, but they rarely exist. She'll bang the alpha happily. But the beta, it's relationship first, then sex, if she ever decides to let it happen. The beta is more likely to get friendzoned, told she wants to remain celibate, she wants to be friends first, she wants to take it slow, etc.

I speak in reality from experience.
 

jammer

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Harry Wilmington said:
It's clear that our views and/or life experiences with women are different - mine apparently being much more positive than yours - so there's really no point in continuing the conversation.
Harry,

Your advice is terrible. If you look back at this thread, the only people who agree with you are AFC's who desperately want to believe what you're saying is true, that women like the ones you posted about in your original post exist. And that's why your advice is so dangerous.

If you look at all the other posts in this thread, all the other experienced DJ's disagree with large parts of what you said.

It is not that your "life experiences" with women are more positive" I think it's that more likely you live in some kind of lala land where all relationships are perfect and where women actually act like normal human beings.

However, all of the threads on this forum alone is proof of how wrong you are.

What you're saying totally flies in the face of everything that is written here by personal experience. It totally goes against the fact as a nation we have a 65% divorce rate for first time marriages and 70% for second time marriages.

If what you're saying is true, guys would just be here dating one girl after another until they found a girl who meet all of the fantastic qualities you laid out. Sadly, the world being the way it is, this often does not happen because that's just how women are.

Your points are doing a disservice to guys, because you're basically having a lot of men next women for acting naturally. And this is totally against the DJ philosophy that recommends men should develop confidence and immunity to rejection. This does not mean asking a girl out 5 times if she has said no, what it means is we have to recognize that women are naturally flaky, elusive, like to play games, and are emotionally up and down creatures.

If you want to avoid the games, then sure don't involve yourself. But if you put a little extra effort in, you'll be surprised how far you can get, especially with the really hot ones ;)
 

Harry Wilmington

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@nismo-4 Hey man, glad u liked the original list I put up. I still wish people were posting up additions to the list, but this thread has somehow turned into something else.

Anyway, I figured I would respond to the statements you placed in the red as best as I can...

Guys ask out hot girls all the time. Online and in real life. How come you think their egos are so damn big? Think about it.
If you look carefully, these guys aren't necessarily asking these girls for dates. They might be going up to them, buying them drinks, giving the compliments, and even getting her number... but they're not closing the deal. It's like in sales when a sales person does the presentation, has the potential customer interested in the product... but then he doesn't actually ASK for the money, and goes away empty-handed.

And, if you look at the posts on these boards, there are so, sooooo many stories of this happening. "Hey SS, I met a girl, we've texted back and forth for a loooooong time so I think she likes me!" Me: "Have you asked her out yet?" "Well, I'm not sure if she'd like to, see, because blah blah blah..."

And the ones that ARE asking them for dates are doing it in ways that don't make it look like he's trying to really get to know her, but to just bang her, and it turns her off. Again, the posts on here - how many of them consist of "I want to ask her back to my place to fook" or "I thought of inviting her out to a party I'm going to..." NONE of these things are appealing to most girls as first dates.

Women seem to be dating up while men seem to be dating down. Because men have heavily inflated the price of love, sex, and companionship.
Again, not true. I've met girls in what you'd call "up" positions - i.e. good jobs, making lots of money, driving nice cars - who end up dating guys that not only make less than them, but are in life situations that are significantly WORSE than them. Why? Because these guys make them feel needed - they're fixer-uppers after all, and women LOVE taking on a good project. Heck, I was able to date these kinds of women BEFORE I finally got myself situated - I had them driving ME around in THEIR cars and chipping in for meals, and I was far from being a millionaire. However, I knew how to make them feel wanted and desired in other areas of their life, so I was able to get it in.

Before I continue, I just want to stress: I am a big believer in the whole "you are what you think" ideal. So, part of the reason I've been able to date these kinds of women despite not always having a lot of money, muscles or model looks is because I sincerely BELIEVE I'm deserving of them and can still offer them things outside of material stuff that other guys can't. And so I get them. That's not to say having those other things aren't important to have, but for guys to use their lack of certain things as excuses for not getting the women they want is really just a delay tactic on their part that shows a lack in confidence.

Continuing on...
Just because you make a move doesn't mean you'll win. But guess what, you miss all the shots you don't take. Harry, you took a shot, and somehow won. It's just like buying a lottery ticket!
I agree with the "shots" metaphor. That's why I don't want guys chickening out on hitting up hot chicks. Also, despite what you said earlier, many hot chicks don't believe just how hot they are. After living with a few of them it's been easy to see why. I lived with a girl in college who was, by far, the hottest girl in our theater program... but she had irritable bowel syndrome. Every morning I'd hear her explosive turds flying out of her @ss and think to myself, "Yeah... no WAY I'm trying to hit that!"

Bottom line: these girls everyone thinks are hot, they themselves know that, aside from looks, they have a lot of unattractive stuff going on with their bodies at any given time. Yeast infections, periods, jagged toe nails, a p*ssy with a bad odor, crooked teeth, bad hair (hidden by the wig they're wearing), UTI... it makes girls feel like "blah," which is why some of them are genuinely surprised when dudes are making a fuss about them. Ironically, it's because I'm aware of these things that I'm able to not be so frazzled by what she looks like - at the end of the day, it's just an outer shell, but if that shell contains a person with a bad attitude or bad hygiene, none of that so-called "hotness" matters to me.
All women have options. Women have lots of guys for different things. One of them is getting the pu$$y constantly, while the others are just orbiters she's using for validation and teasing, such as one man is the mechanic, one is the computer geek, one is the provider, one is the chauffeur. one is the Move-my-things-around-do-my favors-but-you-ain't gettin'-laid guy, some are the Cokblock crew, etc. etc.
This is true - for attention-wh0res who like to use guys for their own needs without caring about how the guys will feel. These are the kinds of women to avoid. I'm sure a few people on here will read that and say "but that's how ALL women are." Again, that's true if you choose to believe it; in my reality, it's not. There are women out there who only want one man entertaining their time, but they only want that one man doing so if they have high interest. If she is someone who's using multiple guys for different sections of her life, it just means she doesn't have a high enough interest in any one of them. Best believe, though, when she finds that one who does, all those other bozos go flying right out the window!
 

Naughty Ninja

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When a chick REALLY, REALLY likes you she'd forgive you for all the sh1t you talked about her and every other chick you've mentioned you had a chubby for and posted on So Suave if she ever found out.
 

incognito42

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Harry Wilmington said:
I really just wanted to respond to this quote in your statement, because I hear it on these boards all the time.

The whole "multitude of options" thing is a lie - at least in the way guys think about it. Men think differently from women in terms of getting a mate. We see a beautiful girl who's a 9 on a 10 scale and think to ourselves, "Man, I have no chance - she's so hot, she can get any girl she wants."

This is what is holding you guys back from getting with hot girls. You associate her hotness level - which is a totally made up thing, BTW (more on this later) - with her ability to have a suitor. And yet, the majority of women who get married are, on average, in the 5 to 7 department on the looks scale. Why, you ask?

BECAUSE THE HOT GIRL IS NOT BEING ASKED OUT, THAT'S WHY.

You see, even the hottest of girls isn't sure that she's all that hot. And she's right to think that way because hotness is subjective to the person viewing her. I've seen guys post up pictures of "10" girls on here that I wouldn't even try masturbating to. She's waiting to be asked out just like all the so-called "homely" girls...

...but the problem is, all the guys around her are waiting for HER to walk up to THEM and make a move. Because, in their heads, SHE is the one that should make the decision. And so, while you're sitting there thinking SHE'S the one who should choose you since she's so hot and you might not be good enough for her, I'M the one walking up to her, flirting with her, getting the digits, taking her out and eventually screwing her.

Also, girls' choices aren't as abundant as you think they are. I have plenty of fine friends who are girls and get hit on regularly by all types of guys... but having that multitude of guys doesn't make their choice any easier. Girls have it harder at times than we do when it comes to picking a mate - for most of them (again, I'm making a generality), they're looking for someone who can protect them, has a good gene pool for making babies, isn't going to harm them with his added strength, and a plethora of other things guys don't even have to think about.

On top of that, the majority of the male population doesn't have their ish together. You have guys that still live home with their parents; guys who have 9 or 10 children by six women; guys who are on drugs; guys who only want to hit it and quit it; guys who cheat; guys who can't afford to take care of himself, let alone go out on dates; guys who smell bad all of the time; guys who can't stop doing AFC-related things like texting her all the time or acting overjealous when she hangs out with co-workers; guys who don't have manners... I could go on and on.

And so, once again, it boils down to YOUR reality of the situation. You could view the dating game as one where hot girls won't date you because they'd never choose you based on how you look; or, you could view the dating game as one where hot girls WILL date you because everyone else is afraid, but you know how to trigger things in her that will have her DYING to be with you. I choose the latter, and I've liked my results thus far. (And, in case you're wondering: I'm not a 10 on the looks scale - not ugly, but not a model either - and I don't have muscles to speak of. I just have a LOT of confidence and believe I'm the better option than the other options a girl has coming to her.)

My point was, hot chicks have orbitors. Even average and below average chicks have orbitors and guys tripping over themselves for them on a daily basis. Girl at my work is as average as they come, but she's really flirty and a party girl so guess what? Guys give her tons of attention, she gobbles it up, and her value in her head as over inflated causing her to make men jump through hoops to get to her and she doesn't tip her hand when she likes a guy. Not to the extent of letting on that she's really into th guy

All chicks are different though. If a chick is desperate for a relationship and is very codependent then her desperation to find that companionship may cause her to make it a little more obvious she's interested.

Its not a matter of me being intimidated by hot chicks, and assuming they're unattainable and being chased by too many guys for me to have a chance. I've just seen that even average to below average chicks aren't needy or don't act desperate like most guys do when trying to make it obvious they like a chick
 

Harry Wilmington

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incognito42 said:
My point was, hot chicks have orbitors. Even average and below average chicks have orbitors and guys tripping over themselves for them on a daily basis.
This is very true, and there are always going to be guys wanting to go after your girl, especially if she's hot and even if she's not. Which leads me to add something else to the list:

When a girl likes you, the guys trying to orbit around her are a non-issue because she doesn't like them and would rather be around YOU. I have found this to be true both for girls who were friends of mine but then got a man and started spending less time with me; as well as for girls I've dated who ended up wanting to spend more time with me and less time with their guy friends.

Also:

When a girl likes you, her flirtiness towards other guys is almost non-existent. Flirting is mostly used to attract someone else, and a girl that likes you only wants to attract you.

Oh yeah - I also wanted to touch on something NewAndImproved said:
I see where Harry is coming from...

However, I think the premise "confusing" is somewhat wrong, though, simply because it assumes that the guy has the OPTIMAL skills to interact, communicate with and lead women.
This is very true as well. While a girl will make it easy to tell if she likes you, it's still the guy's job to know how to communicate with a girl so that like will be there in the first place. For many guys, this will mean having to wait a few years while they build up their confidence. The best way to do this is to... well, do things that make you confident. For me, it was moving out to L.A. by myself, getting a job, being successful in a few areas of my life that I wanted to be successful in, and not having to rely so much on others to help me.

Real talk, guys: for most of you, once you're out on your own and able to take care of yourselves, you'll be surprised at just how confident you become in yourself - and that confidence will carry over into your dating lives. For example: if you're living at home with your Mom right now, you'll probably have a hard time feeling confident in your ability to attract a woman. However, once you get your own place, you gain more confidence because now, if she likes you, you know you have a place to take her. So, it's really important a guy get himself together first BEFORE trying to bring a girl into his life. Yes, it's true that a girl who likes you will like you regardless of your circumstance; however, it's psychologically better for you as a guy to have stuff in order so you won't be second-guessing her interest in you all the time.
 
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