What women respond too... the player v. the nice BF

[RangerMIke]

Was at a holiday party last night was doing what I always do at parties, having a good time talking to people, really wasn't in the mood to meet new women, there was a nice eclectic mix of interesting people and I was having fun talking a joking around. I noticed a women from across the room and we made eye contact.... she was attractive, but my guess was that she was right out of college too young... but went up to her anyway to talk to her, trust me I had no intention of picking her up, but when you are at a party it always helps if other women see you talking to pretty girls (this is the lesson).

Anyway, this guy walks up... young guy, looked right out of college, my guess was correct. He introduces himself as her 'boyfriend', the dude was stinking of insecurity and DEFINATELY did not like me talking to 'his girl', but he was trying to play it cool... reading BL is something EVERYONE needs to learn to do. Well, I really don't like people challenging me... so I had in the back of my mind I'm going to teach this guy a lesson on Male/Female dynamics since he was clearly clueless.

I started teasing him that his name was "Her Boyfriend", "Did your parents name you that? They must be one of those weird celebrities that name their kids things like Apple, and Seven...." I just started joking around with him and making him feel comfortable... asked him where he went to school what he did for a living, got him talking... He was an engineer as well, so we had that in common.

All the while I was completely ignoring his girlfriend, was only looking at her out of the corner of my eye to make sure she was paying attention. Then I looked at her, then back at him and asked how did they meet. Oh, we've known each other since high school, then college, and we've been dating ever since... This was from him, not her. Then I asked how they ended up here, she said after college she wanted to start a social innovation company that trains medical staff... actually it was a pretty good idea, and I told her this. He then said, he moved her for her and basically said he took a job getting what he could (it was with an environmental engineering firm which is just so so). I had all the information I needed.

I looked at him and started praising him, I said "WOW, dating the same girl all though college and high school, you've a better man than me... Jesus, I can't evening fvcking remember the names of all the girls I dated, I just do not have that level of commitment... never did, and I guess since I don't have a steady girl, never will." Poor guy REALLY thought I was pumping him up and complementing him in front of his girl, he was all proud and smiling. Then I said keep in touch and told the girl to give me a call if she needs help with her business, I really did have some ideas and knew some people that might be able to help her.

Then just moved on to other folks.... One guess what happened next.... the women kept getting in my line of sight, any time I would move to different part of the room, well there she was.... Before I left I made a point to stop by and tell her bye and she said "I'll definitely be calling you for 'help', but my card only has my business phone and she needs my cell." then she grabbed me and hugged me tight making sure her t!ts rub against my chest.

Lesson here is simple, women naturally NOT loyal, loyalty is a trained characteristic. Her BF NEVER trained his girl... he was clearly too accommodating following her around and being a puppy... Puppies are nice, but what are you going to do with a puppy? You train women by being willing to walk away and never look back when you are not getting what you want out of a relationship. In addition, women are more attracted to men that have had and could have a number of women. They like men with plenty of options... the reason is women REALLY do not respect loyalty... Loyalty is fine as long as it serves their needs.....

 

[Lozboss]

Mike nailing it again. Great Field report.

Never make ANY woman the priority in your life. I've learnt the hard way as I'm sure many DJs have.

It's a sad state of affairs that loyalty isn't a natural trait but it's important to realize that women must CONSTANTLY want to be with you. You actions directly affect this.

 

[Genos]

First off, I definitely agree with the message you're presenting here, and it's a teachable moment for us here on this forum.

But, I'm not sure how you "taught this guy a lesson on Male/Female Dynamics". If anything, you lulled him into a sense of security with the conversation and undermined his relationship a bit in the eyes of the woman, purely for fun to put it bluntly. Teaching him a lesson would've involved somehow illuminating for him the mistakes he made over the course of the interaction after it was over (I don't know how you'd smoothly do something like this, new territory for me). If he doesn't want to listen or hear what he did wrong, that's on him, but that would be "teaching him a lesson." I have a feeling that (over time, not simply because of this) he's going to see his relationship slipping away slowly, none the wiser as to why, as his mistakes pile up. Being a nice BF is fine, but being a 'nice BF' is not.

RangerMike I've always respected and valued your posts and the advice you've given me, and of course still do. And it's fine to have fun and employ our knowledge of social dynamics...but if you're doing it at the potential expense of others, make sure the other guy gets some kind of knowledge out of it. From your field report, it seems like the dude didn't learn anything at all.

 

[zekko]

The guy isn't really a "nice boyfriend", he's a doormat. And loyalty is not necessarily a bad quality, it's just that this guy appears to have no options, no experience, and no life, frankly. It's not really a fair comparison.

 

[fastlife]

I used to do the whole girlfriend snatcher thing--but then you realize that women in committed relationships are actually the easiest to pull. They emerge unscathed; the boyfriend foots the bill. Yeah, he has a lot to learn; but I can't convince myself that I'd have any particularly altruistic motivations. Not to mention that there is always the chance that this girl never meets a guy who has the social pull/lack of inhibition to pull her from her boyfriend; or that between you and the next attractive option, the guy somehow gets it together.

But morals aside, I think the most valuable takeaway from your story is the fact that the best way to counteract hypergamy (whether you're trying to play the player or the sweet boyfriend role) is to remain ambiguous. As soon as she can consistently and easily fit you in a label--be it short-term lover material only or super nice boyfriend, she can begin to optimize the other side of her hypergamy. I've actually driven a girl or two into the hands of a beta supportive provider-type by erring too far to the short-term lover side. And I've been too much of the nice guy boyfriend to drive a girl to seek out something more alpha (granted she was BPD, so the results were more extreme but the dynamics were pretty much the same).

The trick is to consistently defy expectations, which really comes down to being honest with yourself about what you want to do at any given moment. If she's never able to put you fully in the nice guy boyfriend box or the ******* lover box, then you occupy the entirety of her mental head space and emotional experience; she has to categorize you before she can really pursue other options to any degree of optimization. And it's not even something you have to fake; it's just a matter of being a well-rounded person that's living for themself and letting the girl stick around for the ride.

 

[dustmuffin]

Was at a holiday party last night was doing what I always do at parties, having a good time talking to people, really wasn't in the mood to meet new women, there was a nice eclectic mix of interesting people and I was having fun talking a joking around. I noticed a women from across the room and we made eye contact.... she was attractive, but my guess was that she was right out of college too young... but went up to her anyway to talk to her, trust me I had no intention of picking her up, but when you are at a party it always helps if other women see you talking to pretty girls (this is the lesson).

Anyway, this guy walks up... young guy, looked right out of college, my guess was correct. He introduces himself as her 'boyfriend', the dude was stinking of insecurity and DEFINATELY did not like me talking to 'his girl', but he was trying to play it cool... reading BL is something EVERYONE needs to learn to do. Well, I really don't like people challenging me... so I had in the back of my mind I'm going to teach this guy a lesson on Male/Female dynamics since he was clearly clueless.

I started teasing him that his name was "Her Boyfriend", "Did your parents name you that? They must be one of those weird celebrities that name their kids things like Apple, and Seven...." I just started joking around with him and making him feel comfortable... asked him where he went to school what he did for a living, got him talking... He was an engineer as well, so we had that in common.

All the while I was completely ignoring his girlfriend, was only looking at her out of the corner of my eye to make sure she was paying attention. Then I looked at her, then back at him and asked how did they meet. Oh, we've known each other since high school, then college, and we've been dating ever since... This was from him, not her. Then I asked how they ended up here, she said after college she wanted to start a social innovation company that trains medical staff... actually it was a pretty good idea, and I told her this. He then said, he moved her for her and basically said he took a job getting what he could (it was with an environmental engineering firm which is just so so). I had all the information I needed.

I looked at him and started praising him, I said "WOW, dating the same girl all though college and high school, you've a better man than me... Jesus, I can't evening fvcking remember the names of all the girls I dated, I just do not have that level of commitment... never did, and I guess since I don't have a steady girl, never will." Poor guy REALLY thought I was pumping him up and complementing him in front of his girl, he was all proud and smiling. Then I said keep in touch and told the girl to give me a call if she needs help with her business, I really did have some ideas and knew some people that might be able to help her.

Then just moved on to other folks.... One guess what happened next.... the women kept getting in my line of sight, any time I would move to different part of the room, well there she was.... Before I left I made a point to stop by and tell her bye and she said "I'll definitely be calling you for 'help', but my card only has my business phone and she needs my cell." then she grabbed me and hugged me tight making sure her t!ts rub against my chest.

Lesson here is simple, women naturally NOT loyal, loyalty is a trained characteristic. Her BF NEVER trained his girl... he was clearly too accommodating following her around and being a puppy... Puppies are nice, but what are you going to do with a puppy? You train women by being willing to walk away and never look back when you are not getting what you want out of a relationship. In addition, women are more attracted to men that have had and could have a number of women. They like men with plenty of options... the reason is women REALLY do not respect loyalty... Loyalty is fine as long as it serves their needs.....

How do you train a woman to be loyal?

 

[NSX-R]

That's how a dj act like. Awesome job dude.
I'm sure this chick is all over you and the only thing in her mind is how to taste your D.

Poor guy her bf. He has to learn the hard way even though I believe royalty is very important but still you need experience in every kind of field and to acquire that you need to have many partners imo. You can't become a pro dog trainer if you had only one dog in your life.

Keep us updated.

 

[RangerMIke]

How do you train a woman to be loyal?

By letting her know that you will walk away and never look back if she displays disloyal tenancies. The first sign you have a blooming disloyal women is little put downs, or insults... if this is done in front of family and friends you withdraw your attention and start going after different women. She either gets the message or you just keep walking. The only way to build loyalty in a woman is to make her work for your attention. Any man that chases a woman too much and is too accommodating is begging for her to cheat on him. I know it sucks, but that is the truth.

 

[NSX-R]

How do you train a woman to be loyal?

With a strong character, leadership independence and a similar target , a male can make the female very loyal to him.
There are many cases which such things won't help and female usually is unfaithful. I believe this comes from the parents.
If there is something the kid is trying to be like is to be as its parents. If the woman in her young age was in a family that was very strong together and nobody was doing whatever wanted to , she will have these things in her mind as a rule.
I think you have noticed that when the parents are divorced and everybody do their way , usually the kid ends up rebellious and unfaithful to the rules, usually to take attention . This works with both a male and female.

 

[RangerMIke]

First off, I definitely agree with the message you're presenting here, and it's a teachable moment for us here on this forum.

But, I'm not sure how you "taught this guy a lesson on Male/Female Dynamics". If anything, you lulled him into a sense of security with the conversation and undermined his relationship a bit in the eyes of the woman, purely for fun to put it bluntly. Teaching him a lesson would've involved somehow illuminating for him the mistakes he made over the course of the interaction after it was over (I don't know how you'd smoothly do something like this, new territory for me). If he doesn't want to listen or hear what he did wrong, that's on him, but that would be "teaching him a lesson." I have a feeling that (over time, not simply because of this) he's going to see his relationship slipping away slowly, none the wiser as to why, as his mistakes pile up. Being a nice BF is fine, but being a 'nice BF' is not.

RangerMike I've always respected and valued your posts and the advice you've given me, and of course still do. And it's fine to have fun and employ our knowledge of social dynamics...but if you're doing it at the potential expense of others, make sure the other guy gets some kind of knowledge out of it. From your field report, it seems like the dude didn't learn anything at all.

Learning is a process... the lesson is not over. People like him do not learn in one night he has a lifetime of de-programming to do. I know what I'm doing, I have absolutely no intention of hooking up with this girl, too many unattached women to put up with the drama of angry BFs... This guy IMO has a potential to be dangerous... anyone that walks up while you are talking to a woman and says "Hi, I'm her boyfriend." giving me the BL he was giving me tells me he could be trouble, no name, no how are you.... no.... just "I'm the BF." If that has never happened to you and you do not know what that means.... it means he has defined himself in the relationship. If it ever ends, and it will something BAD is going to happen.

First thing is that you can not teach anyone anything if they do not trust you. I have his business card, we'll be going to luch next week. Then the leasons begin.

 

[logicallefty]

The OP handled this like a boss IMO. Outstanding job. I've had similar situations where I start shooting the sh|t with the boyfriend and ignore the chick. That's just the opposite of what she wants, she wants both of you ooogling and competing for her... Could top the situation off saying this to her privately:

LL to HB: He seems like a cool dude. Let me know when he kicks you to the curb. He and I can go out sarging sometime he would be a good wingman for me.

So now, you've spun her hamster wondering why you think he would kick her to the curb, AND, you've subconsciously told her that he is cooler than she is and you would like to hang out with HIM when they split, not HER..

 

[RangerMIke]

LL to HB: He seems like a cool dude. Let me know when he kicks you to the curb. He and I can go out sarging sometime he would be a good wingman for me.

TRUTH... never say anything bad about her BF or ANY of her exes because it makes you look weak. Never try and tear someone down in the hopes of making you look better... it does not work. You should pump him up.

Many times you will find yourself talking to a woman who has a BF that she is having problems with and who is on his way out... the LAST thing you want to do is join in the bashing and agreeing with her. What you should do is defend him, say that " he can't be all that bad you don't seem like the type that would be with a loser." Its a back handed complement. If she is bad mouthing an ex, then you should pay attention to what she is saying, she will give you clues as to what pushes her buttons and turns her off. But don't join in and agree with her, just let her talk and collect intelligence.

I really don't know why it works but it does. But my guess is that her ego feels the need to defend, even an ex, when he is attacked otherwise she looks like an idiot for being with him. Remember women ALWAYS define themselves with the men they are with.

 

[zekko]

TRUTH... never say anything bad about her BF or ANY of her exes because it makes you look weak. Never try and tear someone down in the hopes of making you look better... it does not work.

Strange advice considering that in this case you seemed to go out of your way to make this guy look like a chump in front of his girlfriend, even if he was too dense to know it.

I don't really understand all the "Great job!" accolades you're getting, when it seems to me all you accomplished was pumping up your own ego.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

TRUTH... never say anything bad about her BF or ANY of her exes because it makes you look weak. Never try and tear someone down in the hopes of making you look better... it does not work. You should pump him up.

Many times you will find yourself talking to a woman who has a BF that she is having problems with and who is on his way out... the LAST thing you want to do is join in the bashing and agreeing with her. What you should do is defend him, say that " he can't be all that bad you don't seem like the type that would be with a loser." Its a back handed complement. If she is bad mouthing an ex, then you should pay attention to what she is saying, she will give you clues as to what pushes her buttons and turns her off. But don't join in and agree with her, just let her talk and collect intelligence.

I really don't know why it works but it does. But my guess is that her ego feels the need to defend, even an ex, when he is attacked otherwise she looks like an idiot for being with him. Remember women ALWAYS define themselves with the men they are with.

This the thing if she complaining about him. SHE COULD BE LYING. A lot of women keep a relationship and do a bunch of creeping on the side, and they justify it by outright lies told about the boyfriend/husband.

 

[FCB]

Loyalty really only matters to a girl when she thinks she doesn't have better options, then she wants to lock her partner up. They will get clingy and desperate and use pity etc to try and have a guy latch onto her when she thinks she needs him, when she thinks she has better options she'll distance herself. When they think they can get higher value and don't really need you for anything you are disposable. Its all about keeping your value high and continuously reinforcing your value, you just can't get complacent in a relationship unless your partner is very low value, even then girls perceived value will grow and they'll probably just bide their time.

 

[Yewki]

So you covertly gamed another dude's girl who had already been eyeing you, she became more friendly, and nothing actually happened?

Got her.

 

[raider87]

Loyalty really only matters to a girl when she thinks she doesn't have better options, then she wants to lock her partner up. They will get clingy and desperate and use pity etc to try and have a guy latch onto her when she thinks she needs him, when she thinks she has better options she'll distance herself. When they think they can get higher value and don't really need you for anything you are disposable. Its all about keeping your value high and continuously reinforcing your value, you just can't get complacent in a relationship unless your partner is very low value, even then girls perceived value will grow and they'll probably just bide their time.

Lol what a cold game

 

[RangerMIke]

Strange advice considering that in this case you seemed to go out of your way to make this guy look like a chump in front of his girlfriend, even if he was too dense to know it.

I don't really understand all the "Great job!" accolades you're getting, when it seems to me all you accomplished was pumping up your own ego.

I see your point, but I do believe it is important to understand the difference between prevailing wisdom and what women respond to. I should have stated do not engage in personal attacks, or agree with her if she complains about her BF. I've seen too many guys that when a girl breaks things off with her BF, start bad mouthing the guy... it does not work. Saying stuff like "He seemed nice enough", while we all know that is NOT what women want, it is NOT an insult.

This couple is on their way to a horrendous break-up, mostly because this guy does not know what the heck he is doing. It's just a matter of time before she's done... nothing I do or fail to do will prevent that, the only way they will last is if the BF changes his approach. You can try and tell him that, but he will not believe it....

 

[RangerMIke]

So you covertly gamed another dude's girl who had already been eyeing you, she became more friendly, and nothing actually happened?

Got her.

Not exactly, it was a demonstration that prevailing wisdom does not work. Women will say they want a loyal nice guy, who will wait on her. Truth is they do not respect boot-lickers. If they don't respect you they will not love you. This is why men that do not need them are attractive.

 

[RangerMIke]

In other words, you were the ****block everyone loves to hate.

It's one thing to be an Alpha, but at the expense of a guy you've never met before? What did he do to you?

So, you stole a girl from her boyfriend.

Some man you are.

You are funny. Read what I've posted and don't be so freaking judgmental. You are WAYYYYY off base.

Why are there so many men who are drama queens on this website?