*** What to expect out of marriage?"

[SheDevil]

To be there for each other...

I know it may sound like a cliche, but it really is the truth. You must be there for one another.

I need to be strong where he is weak and he needs to be strong where I am weak.

Our home was our haven, our escape, we both worked stressful jobs, we came home to each other, no TV, emails or answering machines until we cuddled together on the couch and talked about our day. Sometimes it was only 5 minutes, sometime hours, but we had each others undivided attention and we talked.

Friends used to ask why we never fought. God we fought, we were NEVER violent, but I have been known to wing a shoe at him and he has been known to pin me down so I would listen. We yelled, we called each other out, we screamed and kept it out in the open. I never left him guessing how I felt and he always told me how he felt, loudly. This was the key, we never used the silent treatment, we got it all out, we cleared the air, we didnt jump on the phone to our friends, we dealt with it openly and honestly, together.

I have a strong sex drive, at times I was a little demanding. He glady met my demands. But sex is an area that still required continued development. We didnt let it get stale or routine and never did we use sex as a weapon in an argument. In all honesty, sex was our release, our entertainment and another way we showed each other how we felt.

There will be hardships, it isnt a bed of roses, but if these hardships are approached together, they are easiler to overcome.

I feel "What to expect out of marriage - is what you BOTH put into it"

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by Wyldfire
You're being unrealistic.

First of all, in this day and age you are less likely to find a woman who will be willing to stay home. Secondly, if you have children, unless you make 6 figures a year, it's going to take two incomes to afford to raise them in the way you will want to.

Number one, I live in a more conservative area, making it more likely to happen. Number two, I will make at least six figures a year, and even if I don't, I'll arrange my accomodations to fit in with that. I'm going to marry a Christian woman, so obviously there's a lot of opportunity for involvement with the church (volunteering, peer groups, etc).

Even living in the apartment complex I live in now, I am usually home during the day, and I can tell you from personal observations that there are still a LOT of at-home mothers. And the same was true everywhere I had previously lived, too. I'm not sure where you live, but I live in a conservative area.

I think you're also assuming that I'd also be the kind of husband who would come home tired after work and just want to lounge around and watch TV or play games, or that I implied that. If that be the case, you might wanna think otherwise. I won't be working myself to death doing something I hate; on the contrary, I'll be doing something I love, and getting paid to do it.

How do I know all this? Because if the conditions aren't as they should be, then I'm not going to get married. Plain and simple.

Earthshyne, you seem to have a defeatist attitude because of one failed marriage. I'm used to it from Dietzcoi as well.

Shedevil:

"Our home was our haven, our escape, we both worked stressful jobs, we came home to each other, no TV, emails or answering machines until we cuddled together on the couch and talked about our day. Sometimes it was only 5 minutes, sometime hours, but we had each others undivided attention and we talked."

Bravo. I don't friggin' understand what seems so hard to get about a husband and wife spending time together. It seems simple enough to me, but there seems to be a lack of it when it counts.

To all:

I've heard it enough times. You just can't give up in marriage. You have to be a man. You have to stand up for yourself. So why then, do you all use a marriage that has failed for lack of the above as a litmus for what works and what doesn't? That's like judging all Fords by an Explorer that got flipped over on a freeway onramp. You have to marry for the right reasons, and you should not settle for less than you really desire. So why, then, judge marriage by incidents in which people marry for the WRONG reasons and settle for LESS than what they desire? This is the Mature DJ forum, so it should be safe to assume that we know the basics already. So why don't we judge marriage by what is actually done right?

Where the heck is Survivor when you need him? I know he's married...


EDIT NUMBER TWO MILLION: Somehow I missed Rollo's post up there. Good post... finally someone who did it right, and is reaping the rewards.

 

[dietzcoi]

Rollo

Good posts. I agree with all your points. As always, you say it much better than I can. You even have Metal Fortress agreeing with you... after he attacks me.

Metal Fortress: Good luck on your fantansy future. You know it all already. I guess God has enlightened you on your future. hope it works out that way.. I would hate to see you disillusioned.

The high divorce statistics apparently mean nothing to a young know-it-all.

Shedevil had the perfect marriage but it ended. What happened?

Dietzcoi

 

[MetalFortress]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
You even have Metal Fortress agreeing with you... after he attacks me.

Maybe because you are easily the most negative person on Sosuave?

Call it a fantasy all you want, but if you aren't shooting for the top, why even try at all?

 

[dietzcoi]

Go for it...

I would love to talk to you when you are 44

Dietzcoi

 

[SheDevil]

Our marriage was great, we had it very good, I have no regrets now and we are still close.

At a very young age he wanted to be in the military. It was a life plan for him, he did it, he was fulfilling every dream. We met and married when he was 36 and I was 26. I adored and honored everything about him and treated me like a goddess, it was enchanting.

Then the US was attacked, it was his moment to shine, every bit of training he had since he was 18 years old, now mattered.

He was given several options, retire or transfer to stay at home, or remain in a mobile position, which would be away from me. He had to do this, his entire adult life was training, planning, and preparing for this moment.

As his wife, I had to encourage him, he had to do this, discouraging him would have been selfish and it would have destroyed him to throw it all away.

He left, I became sad, we saw each other about 12 weekends a year, and that time was spent making love, sort of. Our bond was slipping away, he and I both loved to have sex, so our time together was 48 hours of fuking in some airport hotel, on some coast, somewhere.

I lived sad, I was sad he and all we had together, seemed gone. The mobility of his position was permanent, he was not to be based, still isnt.

He called one Wednesday - 5 DAYS THIS TIME!!! - Yes! a condo, not a hotel, a whole week together! I was elated out of my mind!! I arrived at the condo, he was on his phone, charts and graphs everywhere. I got a quick kiss, an ass rub and a request to put on fresh coffee.

7 hours later the call ended, he came to bed, spooned up behind me, and emptied himself into me. That was as intimate as we had become.

I was sad because I wanted him back, I was beginning to be self centered, that is not me. He was sad, ONLY because I was, he loved all he did, it was in his blood, he needed to do what he was doing.

I climbed on his lap in the middle of the bed and told him I wanted him to go for it all. I wanted "to become unmarried", I wanted to end this sadness for both of us.

We cried and made love for probably the first time in over 2 years.

Maybe I should have been more patient, maybe I should have "settled" for what I had, it is one thing to be apart from each other emotionally and have a feeling of being second in his life, but to feel like an anchor or dead weight to someone is more then I could handle.

I am not faulting him, he didnt change, our circumstances did. He couldnt manage, career and marriage, not in this environment. He had to make a choice.

Be prepared, he will read this, with his schedule it may be about three weeks or so, but he will search the site by my name and bring his most graceful comments to this post. I dont know what he will say, I can only imagine, good lord can I imagine.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

METAL/DIETZCOI: Well, I certainly didn't start it out with the intent to 'do it right', but once I was married I was determined to make it right. Fortunately I have a woman who has positive outlook on marriage and expects me to be the man and expects herself to be a woman. We're complimentary to each other, not adversarial. I can expect to have my laundry clean and my kid's teeth brushed and she can expect the oil in the car to be changed, the trash will make it to the curb on Thursdays and our daughter's homework to get done. I stay in good physical shape for her and she is in better shape than 90% of the girls I know in their 20's (i.e. no pooch belly peeking over the lowrider jeans). I'm the CEO of the marriage and she is the CFO. She consults my authority with regards to money in and money out, but she keeps track of it and the bills and gives us both the financial reports.

We play on the same friggin' team. I know that sounds simplistic, but I don't know how else to put it. It's a lot like playing mixed doubles tennis. You can't win or get any better if you're hitting the ball at each other on your own side of the court. You have to cooperate and hit the ball back over the net when it comes at you and not complain if your partner happened to be in a better position to do so than you at the time.

There are too many marriages that are or become adversarial or are entered into without realizing that there is a need to be complimentary in gender roles. I used to laugh my azz off at the bitter old 40+ divorced or never married cat-lady b!tches that I worked with in my previous job. They would all toss out this marriage advice to me and the only other guy in our department. I was of course the Devil because my wife would call me to ask if she could make a purchase of something or other while I was working and these women would screech about how 'controlling' I was and "how dare I 'allow' her or not to spend money indiscriminently." I would then point out that it was they who were divorced or unmarried - none of which more than 4 years at a marriage - it was them who were hopelessly in credit debt (possibly for the remainder of their lives) and we were debt free (still are thank you) and us who have a well adjusted, honors student in private school. All because I am 'the husband' and she is 'the wife'. Then of course it goes to how 'defeated' she is, or how I must've destroyed her confidence to be letting this happen to her. This of course pisses me off and I'll tell you why.

My wife is a reflection of me and I am a reflection of her. If someone attacks her they attack me, they attack my discrection, they attack my integrity. Likewise with her and we've talked about this at length. In the Biblle, marriage makes the 2 become one flesh and an attack on one is an attack on both. If I'm a drunk, ambitionless slob, so is my wife. If I am a proud, strong individual with integrity, so is my wife. She bears my strengths and misgivings and I bear her's. So when these women attack my wife's character they attack my own - and then it's on. I told them that when they have a child, in wedlock and have been in a happy marriage for 9 years they could look me up and then have a discussion.

This also played out in my wife not too long ago when I went to see Michael Moore speak at a college lecture back in October. I had gone to see Moore speak and some women in our church circle of friends told my wife how "sick" it was for me to want to go to the lecture. My wife freaked out on them as if she'd been attacked herself. Mind you these were church-going people that we have strong friendships with and my wife was to the point of kicking them out of our home. Politics wasn't the issue, it was her response to an attack on her husband.

METALFORTRESS: I think it's admirable that you'd set a Christian woman as a marriage condition, but be careful in thinking that Christian=traditionally minded. It's been my experience that 'Christian' women are among the most 'entitled' women you'll ever find. You might think that Christian women would be more apt to honor traditional gender roles because of their Christian upbringing, but more often these days their parents are divorced themselves or got involved in religion to repair their lives. In fact I'd say modern Christian women have higher (unrealistic?) conditions for marriage and lack a complete understanding of how men are and what they need. That's not to say you wont find a woman who fits the traditional role you'd seek, but understand that even in the best circumstance - assuming she was raised in this manner - a Christian woman will not necessarily make a good mother or lover.

 

[DJDamage]

I'm the CEO of the marriage and she is the CFO. She consults my authority with regards to money in and money out, but she keeps track of it and the bills and gives us both the financial reports.

We play on the same friggin' team. I know that sounds simplistic, but I don't know how else to put it. It's a lot like playing mixed doubles tennis. You can't win or get any better if you're hitting the ball at each other on your own side of the court. You have to cooperate and hit the ball back over the net when it comes at you and not complain if your partner happened to be in a better position to do so than you at the time.

This makes alot of sense thanks Rollo!

This is the reason why marriages those days seem to fail. Its seems that both partners want to become the boss of the house and it becomes a struggle for power in which you cannot win.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

OXIDE: Heheh,..well it helps to have a degree in psychology I guess,..

How do we stay debt free? Simple. We refuse to borrow from our future to pay for our present. This is actually my rule and she conceded to it long ago.

Sex? Oh, I can talk your ear off about married sex. As I stated in previous posts in this thread, this is probably the one area I get frustrated with and I have a very attractive wife making it all the more frustrating.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69611

Scroll down to my post here for an eye opener.

 

[SheDevil]

Oxide -

Financial troubles can really eat at a marriage - it is good that you are looking out for it now, planning ahead. In my marriage, we never really ran into this, I am not a spender nor was he, because our home life truly was our escape, that is where we stayed. Probably sounds boring to many, but to us it was awesome.

Vacations, entertainment, dinners, etc...all at our home. Not that we werent social with friends or family, but grilling, by our backyard pool, with each other, was all we desired. We only seem to have a few hours together every night, I wasnt willing to share them with others.

Sex was never an issue, as long as he kept up with me things were fine. LOL I did enjoy him and his body, often. It was part of our bond, part of how we communicated and even part of our entertainment.

Had I told him 'not tonight, I am not in the mood' he would have put me in the mood. He wouldnt have taken rejection well, I never wanted to reject him, good combination. We had a lot in common and the desire for sex, often, was one of them.

I dont see that in many marriages, I hear many women speak of the 'chore' of sex over the 'joy' of it. I wish I knew why, I have wondered for a very long time. I used to credit my husband, pity all the women who didnt have him as a lover. Now, being engaged to another, I pity the woman that dont have my fiance. When I speak openly about the desire for sex, almost every time, I become alienated from the group.

It is truly their loss.

 

[MetalFortress]

Rollo, thanks for the insight

"METALFORTRESS: I think it's admirable that you'd set a Christian woman as a marriage condition, but be careful in thinking that Christian=traditionally minded. It's been my experience that 'Christian' women are among the most 'entitled' women you'll ever find. You might think that Christian women would be more apt to honor traditional gender roles because of their Christian upbringing, but more often these days their parents are divorced themselves or got involved in religion to repair their lives. In fact I'd say modern Christian women have higher (unrealistic?) conditions for marriage and lack a complete understanding of how men are and what they need. That's not to say you wont find a woman who fits the traditional role you'd seek, but understand that even in the best circumstance - assuming she was raised in this manner - a Christian woman will not necessarily make a good mother or lover."

Sorry I wasn't more clear on this. I am a very traditional guy, looking for an equally traditional girl. I was with one for awhile long distance, and it would have been an amazing thing except for some eating disorder problems on her part, and the fact that she was too young, and thus a bit immature. My ex girlfriend (not long distance) was not as traditional, but often did defer to me. I wasn't as picky as I should have been though, and that relationship is the first and last time making that mistake, because I'm the kind of player who plays for keeps, and marriage is a million times more important of an investment than any financial investments.

I'm a young guy, but I have absorbed as much knowledge as I can, and continue to absorb knowledge, and put it to use. I am very picky when it comes to who I'd want to be with, and I'd rather be single than marry someone I have any doubts about marrying. Regarding finances, my interest in real estate and other investing has recently shot through the roof, and I feel literally called to do it. I bought Rich Dad Poor Dad, The Complete Idiot's Guides to Getting Rich and Real Estate Investing, and Secrets of a Millionaire Landlord. So far, I am completely enthralled with RDPD, and if these all click in my head, which I have no doubt they will, I'm going to continue absorbing knowledge, put it to use, and become a very rich man. I'll just have the old problem of gold diggers then

 

[penkitten]

i think its safe to say you can expect dinner .

 

[JohnJones]

I'm a divorced, early thirties lawyer with a good income.

My g/f is a never married (owned a house with a guy) lawyer a few years younger than me, with as good (and sometimes better) an income as me, but she doesn't have kids to pay for.

So if we ever get hitched, I fully expect a prenup, so that I can't get MY hands on her goods...

Actually, I like the idea of it because it maintains some of the individuality, the separation of "just dating" or when you start trading who picks up the check.

 

[sux2bu]

Marriage is simple oppression of men by women, although it used to be the other way around. Oppression of anyone by anyone is not good.

I know many a woman whose only goal is to marry rich. The fact that they don't love the guy is to their advantage. Much easier emotionally to get a divorce, and she still gets the money.

I personally hope they die alone and broke.



http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS.shtml

 

[dietzcoi]

Well Bonnie Blakely tried it with Robert Blake....

Dietzcoi

 

[Ebach]

Re: To be there for each other...

Tell your wife that you'll find a woman that satisfies your desires.

Originally posted by SheDevil
I know it may sound like a cliche, but it really is the truth. You must be there for one another.

I need to be strong where he is weak and he needs to be strong where I am weak.

Our home was our haven, our escape, we both worked stressful jobs, we came home to each other, no TV, emails or answering machines until we cuddled together on the couch and talked about our day. Sometimes it was only 5 minutes, sometime hours, but we had each others undivided attention and we talked.

Friends used to ask why we never fought. God we fought, we were NEVER violent, but I have been known to wing a shoe at him and he has been known to pin me down so I would listen. We yelled, we called each other out, we screamed and kept it out in the open. I never left him guessing how I felt and he always told me how he felt, loudly. This was the key, we never used the silent treatment, we got it all out, we cleared the air, we didnt jump on the phone to our friends, we dealt with it openly and honestly, together.

I have a strong sex drive, at times I was a little demanding. He glady met my demands. But sex is an area that still required continued development. We didnt let it get stale or routine and never did we use sex as a weapon in an argument. In all honesty, sex was our release, our entertainment and another way we showed each other how we felt.

There will be hardships, it isnt a bed of roses, but if these hardships are approached together, they are easiler to overcome.

I feel "What to expect out of marriage - is what you BOTH put into it"

 

[CrotchSniffer]

Originally posted by Rollo Tomassi
There is not a single advantage a man has being married.

Sure there is.. dual citizenship!