What really happened to PUAhate?

[zekko]

Wanna know the difference between guys like Pook, Tyler, David D vs Roosh, Roissy?

Admirers of Pook, Tyler and David D's work wouldnt be up in threads consistently bashing other men, whining about females and society, while also showing lots of anger issues. Go into the comment sections of a Roosh or Roissy blog and you will find a lot of angry men....some men who constantly put down other men, other men who will outright admit hatred of women, and others who advocate violence against women.

That's a good point, actually. Pook, Tyler, and David DeAngelo's material is largely positive, as are the RSD forums. Being negative is considered antiproductive. Followers of people like Roissy spend as much time bashing men as they do women, and they also tend to think that it is primarily negative traits that attract women. You can pretty much see what they're about from that.

 

[ArcBound]

That's a good point, actually. Pook, Tyler, and David DeAngelo's material is largely positive, as are the RSD forums. Being negative is considered antiproductive. Followers of people like Roissy spend as much time bashing men as they do women, and they also tend to think that it is primarily negative traits that attract women. You can pretty much see what they're about from that.

As much as I don't agree with Heartiste at times, Heartiste never sold sh!t.

Pook, Tyler, and David DeAngelo all sold sh!t based on lies.

Pook taught a lot of good stuff, but does any member remember when Pook was peddling a $75 workout program with referral links that benefitted himself of information that could easily be found in the Health and Fitness section? Go look through his posts, you can find them lol. I don't disagree with muscle mass making you attractive, but zekko, you yourself noticed in an old post how Pook seemed to contradict himself when talking about girls liking him when he was skinny and when he was muscular. Pook had a personal investment and wrote a really nice motivational post for the purposes of selling a product

Check his post history. The other PUA people like David DeAngelo sold unrealistic expectations in order to make a quick buck on their programs. Anytime any blogger has anything to sell to you, remember that in light of everything they tell. Why would RSD forums tolerate negative people bashing men and women? They wouldn't, they'd rather use the bandwidth to make more money. Heartiste doesn't care and let's them post, and hey, some of the schlubs might even donate to him, so why not?

Yes being negative is anti-productive, but just because a person is positive and motivational doesn't mean they aren't full of complete BULL CRAP. Once again you gotta test what each person says, even if it is Pook. FFS in the case of David DeAngelo, it isn't even his real name, he was just a very smart marketer and businessman. He "gamed" his customers if you will, so frankly I don't care if he seemed positive or not. His entire character was built out of nothing in order to sell a program.

 

[zekko]

Pook taught a lot of good stuff, but does any member remember when Pook was peddling a $75 workout program with referral links that benefitted himself of information that could easily be found in the Health and Fitness section? Go look through his posts, you can find them lol. I don't disagree with muscle mass making you attractive, but zekko, you yourself noticed in an old post how Pook seemed to contradict himself when talking about girls liking him when he was skinny and when he was muscular. Pook had a personal investment and wrote a really nice motivational post for the purposes of selling a product

Ah, that's very interesting, I didn't know that, I wasn't here at the time. I know Pook went on to have his own blog site or whatever, so I guess that in itself is a money making scheme, or can be.

I've always found that "What every skinny guy should know" post to be very curious, just because it was so obviously fictional. Even though it's one of the most popular threads on here lol. If he wrote it to sell a product that makes a lot more sense.

I don't have a problem with anybody trying to make a buck. I don't like the negativity though, or the male bashing.

 

[( . )( . )]

That's a good point, actually.

You been rick rolled son. Jaylan's hate for Roissy/Roosh comes from a WHOLE different place to why you get sand in your vajajay over them. Roissy and Roosh both use a lot of statistics and trends to form the base of their posts, which libs obviously despise. That combined with jaylan's continual push to prove if you're not homosexual or black you're just not "progressive" enough. I'm sure you can do the math on this one. Has nothing to do with "coz negativity derrp" Don't get sucked into that false premise. You're smarter than that.

 

[BeDJ]

As much as I don't agree with Heartiste at times, Heartiste never sold sh!t.

Pook, Tyler, and David DeAngelo all sold sh!t based on lies.

Pook taught a lot of good stuff, but does any member remember when Pook was peddling a $75 workout program with referral links that benefitted himself of information that could easily be found in the Health and Fitness section? Go look through his posts, you can find them lol. I don't disagree with muscle mass making you attractive, but zekko, you yourself noticed in an old post how Pook seemed to contradict himself when talking about girls liking him when he was skinny and when he was muscular. Pook had a personal investment and wrote a really nice motivational post for the purposes of selling a product

Check his post history. The other PUA people like David DeAngelo sold unrealistic expectations in order to make a quick buck on their programs. Anytime any blogger has anything to sell to you, remember that in light of everything they tell. Why would RSD forums tolerate negative people bashing men and women? They wouldn't, they'd rather use the bandwidth to make more money. Heartiste doesn't care and let's them post, and hey, some of the schlubs might even donate to him, so why not?

Yes being negative is anti-productive, but just because a person is positive and motivational doesn't mean they aren't full of complete BULL CRAP. Once again you gotta test what each person says, even if it is Pook. FFS in the case of David DeAngelo, it isn't even his real name, he was just a very smart marketer and businessman. He "gamed" his customers if you will, so frankly I don't care if he seemed positive or not. His entire character was built out of nothing in order to sell a program.

I picked up on a lot of what Heartiste was saying and no doubt his material works, so I don't question his credibility. However, it's not what I feel will work to be the man I want to become. I may be wrong, I frequently am, but it did not provide me the happiness I was looking for. I found a brighter path in life without having to worry about getting laid. That's a lot to say and I could understand where many are coming from when they disagree. I'm simply saying that I feel much more positive when I took a step back from what out modern generations call Game.

Having said that, there will always be people trying to help you get laid. Harry Willington, for example is promoting his material. I am not discrediting him, I feel he has great ideas. I've only taken bit and pieces from his writing, but he knows his stuff. His marketing is what thrown me off from his site, his marketing strategies are too gimmicky for my taste.

I don't blame Pook, Tyler and David DeAngelo for pursuing a career in which they have had success with. I would do the same if I had as much experience as they. But. We all come from different backgrounds, Pook, for example. Not everyone is going to be born 6'4". Neil Strauss, not everyone aspires to work for Rolling Stones. I don't know much about Tyler or the other guys, but we are all cut from a different cloth. What I find successful for me, will not work for other. Although I must say, I focus my game on social status and it has worked well for me. Check out my e-book coming out next month!

Roissy and Roosh both use a lot of statistics and trends to form the base of their posts, which libs obviously despise.

Both use statistics that result in their favor. Perhaps, I believe that NAWALT? The same as all of us don't share the same morals, beliefs and end results.

 

[ArcBound]

I picked up on a lot of what Heartiste was saying and no doubt his material works, so I don't question his credibility. However, it's not what I feel will work to be the man I want to become. I may be wrong, I frequently am, but it did not provide me the happiness I was looking for. I found a brighter path in life without having to worry about getting laid. That's a lot to say and I could understand where many are coming from when they disagree. I'm simply saying that I feel much more positive when I took a step back from what out modern generations call Game.

Having said that, there will always be people trying to help you get laid. Harry Willington, for example is promoting his material. I am not discrediting him, I feel he has great ideas. I've only taken bit and pieces from his writing, but he knows his stuff. His marketing is what thrown me off from his site, his marketing strategies are too gimmicky for my taste.

I don't blame Pook, Tyler and David DeAngelo for pursuing a career in which they have had success with. I would do the same if I had as much experience as they. But. We all come from different backgrounds, Pook, for example. Not everyone is going to be born 6'4". Neil Strauss, we're not born working with Rolling Stones. I don't know much about Tyler or the other guys, but we are all cut from a different cloth. What I find successful for me, will not work for other. Although I must say, I focus my game on social status and it has worked well for me. Check out my e-book coming out next month!

Both use statistics that result in their favor. Perhaps, I believe that NAWALT? The same as all of us don't share the same morals, beliefs and end results.

That's fine, that's exactly the type of thing I always encouraged. Find the thing that works for you, irrespective of what a person says. My point just was that positive does not always mean good or working advice, nor does someone who seem negative immediately have bad advice. I too sense that many of the people in manosphere and even so suave has different goals and motivations than heartiste does.

 

[zekko]

You been rick rolled son. Jaylan's hate for Roissy/Roosh comes from a WHOLE different place to why you get sand in your vajajay over them. Roissy and Roosh both use a lot of statistics and trends to form the base of their posts, which libs obviously despise.

I said he had a good point, which was that Roissy was negative while Tyler, Pook, and David DeAngelo kept things largely positive. That is not the same as saying "I endorse Jaylan and everything he says". I know you two have an ongoing argument.

I've never read Roosh, so I can't speak about him.

Roissy I don't care for. He's said some good things, but overall I find him negative and largely full of sh!t. As you say, he uses a lot of statistics. The problem is, he often misrepresents what those statistics are saying. He will cite some statistics that say A and he will say that it supports the point he is making, which is B. Maybe he just assumes people are too stupid and impatient to read the studies that he talks about.

 

[Fruitbat]

I at times can be a "only looks matter" guy.

The thing is, this argument is different from different perspectives.

If you are naturally really ugly, you have very, very low chances of seducing pretty women. No woman wants to be with an ugly guy, end of.

If you are in the mid range, looks don't matter as much. If you are top 10%, you can be the biggest wuss and loser and you will still score A LOT. More so than a mid ranger with good game.

Now. Women have a habit of ascribing qualities which don't exist to good lookers. This is absolutely maddening for me to observe. The words women use to describe good lookers with very average game and general skills, personality, achievements don't reflect reality. You can see this in evidence with women's choice in music, films, pretty much anything. For example, we all as men appreciate fine female singers and pop stars. I, like most men my age once had a thing for Britney, Christina etc etc. However, even then I understood that it was physical. I didn't like THEM. I just appreciate their looks. Women tend to, but not always, will actually fall in love with boyband members, listen to their songs, know about their lives, despite these individuals displaying nothing but an image. They will have complex reasons why their adoration is deeper than superficial. This continues in later life in less overt ways. Men, in general, understand the difference between look and reality.

This ascribing of false qualities fuels the myth that it's ALL about game. Women will insist it's because he's witty, intelligent, understanding, funny, knows what he wants etc, which dupes men into thinking they have a chance to bang hotties every night.

In addition, the top male lookers prefer to believe it's their actions, achievements and game that makes them succesfull. It's far more palatable than "I won the genetic lottery". It feeds the ego.

It's called having your cake and eating it too. Women want the good looker but don't want to admit publicly they are motivated by base emotions and fickle standards so the looks dont matter myth is born. The good looking men agree it's because they are awesome, accomplished individuals. The more lowly dudes ask the lookers, and they reply "fear not, just become awesome like me and all is yours!".....

There is a lot in your control. Obviously at the extremes, the heroin addict looker won't do as well as an average well heeled, well off dude. Forgetting the extremes, its very unlikely youbcan bag multiple beautiful women if you don't have an attractive look, fit and healthy.

Bit of a detour but it needs saying.

 

[Mike32ct]

Well said Fruitbat. Women definitely put a positive spin on the qualities of a good looking guy. Then they brag about how funny, confident, charming, successful (even if his job is so so), etc. that he is.

PUA gurus then try to teach guys to copy these perceived qualities of the good looking guy. Certainly there is no harm in working on your confidence or humor (as long as you're not try hard) or other qualities, but to think that you can "act" your way to the SAME RESULTS as the good looking guy is just ridiculous.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I at times can be a "only looks matter" guy.

The thing is, this argument is different from different perspectives.

If you are naturally really ugly, you have very, very low chances of seducing pretty women. No woman wants to be with an ugly guy, end of.

If you are in the mid range, looks don't matter as much. If you are top 10%, you can be the biggest wuss and loser and you will still score A LOT. More so than a mid ranger with good game.

Now. Women have a habit of ascribing qualities which don't exist to good lookers. This is absolutely maddening for me to observe. The words women use to describe good lookers with very average game and general skills, personality, achievements don't reflect reality. You can see this in evidence with women's choice in music, films, pretty much anything. For example, we all as men appreciate fine female singers and pop stars. I, like most men my age once had a thing for Britney, Christina etc etc. However, even then I understood that it was physical. I didn't like THEM. I just appreciate their looks. Women tend to, but not always, will actually fall in love with boyband members, listen to their songs, know about their lives, despite these individuals displaying nothing but an image. They will have complex reasons why their adoration is deeper than superficial. This continues in later life in less overt ways. Men, in general, understand the difference between look and reality.

This ascribing of false qualities fuels the myth that it's ALL about game. Women will insist it's because he's witty, intelligent, understanding, funny, knows what he wants etc, which dupes men into thinking they have a chance to bang hotties every night.

In addition, the top male lookers prefer to believe it's their actions, achievements and game that makes them succesfull. It's far more palatable than "I won the genetic lottery". It feeds the ego.

It's called having your cake and eating it too. Women want the good looker but don't want to admit publicly they are motivated by base emotions and fickle standards so the looks dont matter myth is born. The good looking men agree it's because they are awesome, accomplished individuals. The more lowly dudes ask the lookers, and they reply "fear not, just become awesome like me and all is yours!".....

There is a lot in your control. Obviously at the extremes, the heroin addict looker won't do as well as an average well heeled, well off dude. Forgetting the extremes, its very unlikely youbcan bag multiple beautiful women if you don't have an attractive look, fit and healthy.

Bit of a detour but it needs saying.

Very true. Attraction for females is mostly visual and superficial based on looks and appearance. Women just mostly subjectively interpret your personality/game from looks/appearance. The problem is today, females who are even sub 5's can demand a male be at least a 6+.

To take it back to Roissy and other PUA advocates of personality/game, they mostly deny the importance of looks/appearance. So they're left with attributing female attraction to personality/game. Well they can't say being nice works, so their theory reverts to it must be almost solely due to "dark triade." This is a simplistic position and a self serving one. Worse, they tend to make it personal and direct negativity toward men that are both successful and unsuccessful, ie., the dateless male's personality is wimp/chode, and the successful guy's is a borderline criminal.

I'm all for being negative toward women and even men as they deserve it, but they miss the mark. They miss the mark on why men are successful or unsuccessful with attracting women in the first place. So of course they commit a string of false conclusion because their premise on what causes attraction is faulty to begin with.

Here's a simple explanation for example, two guys doing similar things, one guy attracts girls and the other doesn't because one has thick hair and the other doesn't. That is, one is meeting the threshold of being a "M6" and the other's hair loss is causing him to not. (this is just an example that its about appearance, it could be any number other examples) It has little to nothing to do with "dark triad" (if a female doesn't think you're attractive just try to get her to see your dark triad behavior as an attractive thing) or any other endless personality/game theories PUA advocates pull out of their butts.

Cliff notes: What personality/game you present is mostly irrelevant without considering appearance and how you look when presenting it to a female.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I actually used to get a lot of link back traffic to RM from PUAHate.

At first it was from a few notable manosphere trolls, but up until the forum closed I actually got a lot of red pill props from their members for being legit – mostly after I published the book. It kind of surprised me since back in 2012 they hated me along with Roosh and Roissy.

I get that the members were mostly trolls (they made a lame attempt to dox Tuthmosis from RoK right before the Rodger's event), but I'm glad I resonated with some of them.

 

[ArcBound]

I actually used to get a lot of link back traffic to RM from PUAHate.

At first it was from a few notable manosphere trolls, but up until the forum closed I actually got a lot of red pill props from their members for being legit – mostly after I published the book. It kind of surprised me since back in 2012 they hated me along with Roosh and Roissy.

I get that the members were mostly trolls (they made a lame attempt to dox Tuthmosis from RoK right before the Rodger's event), but I'm glad I resonated with some of them.

You had a post a couple years back about the moral neutrality of Rational Male. You don't give false optimism, but you also don't murk around in the prevalent pesimism. You just point out trends and phenomena in society, you don't tell us what to do with them. Certain bloggers have personalities that are off putting, or ulterior motives in redefining game to whatever they want it to be, but you just explain things and you do it really well. That is honestly hard to hate.

 

[Peacefulconvo]

PUAHate was legit outside of ****ty Advice. ****ty Advice was 90 percent crap and 10 percent legit theories. The owner of the site used ****ty advice to draw traffic to the site.

When PUAHate first started, bash the scene was the dominant section of the site and there were good conversations about each PUA. The guys on there gave credit when it was due and a lot of them were angry after being ripped off by PUAs who charged thousands for bootcamps. It opened the eyes of a lot of guys, some were even blackmailed by PUAs into writing good reviews of their products so they shared that story too. The site was a great site to go to if you wanted to expose the truth about some PUAs because sites like SoSuave and other forums didn't really allow you to say anything about any of the gurus largely due to the fact that a lot of the members here either followed them or the material was removed by others.

It was when the PUA scene started getting popular across the web that PUAHate was actually started. Bash the scene was good but then came a bunch of other sections like ****ty Advice and Looks Lab which focused on facial features and looks theories. At first it was actually about self-improvement but then it slowly started drawing droves of younger males with legit aspergers and cynic views. Months before the Isla Vista tragedy a member on PUAHate attempted suicide and the site was temporarily shut down. People were calling for the owner to remove ****ty Advice but it drew far too much traffic for it to be removed and it was far more active than Bash The Scene.

When ****ty advice started getting more traffic and views than bash the scene, PUAHate started losing a lot of credibility. It was after the Isla Vista tragedy that the owner shut the site down for good though.

Edit: The tuthmosis exposure which showed pics of some short mexican dude was actually legit, he was so pissed over it too and the evidence kept on piling up that it was him. Some of the return of kings guys would make accounts on puahate claiming to have exposed G manifesto in order to take attention off of the tuthmosis exposure and make PUAHate look silly, the g manifesto exposure was a joke but the tuthmosis exposure based on the evidence in the thread that went for pages was legit.

Edit 2: There isn't doubt in my mind that another site like PUAHate will start to out some of the others left in the industry. When enough people realize that there is bad advice out there and scammers there will be a new site which will put information about them out there.

 

[Maximus Rex]

As Much As I Would Like to Claim that Quote

"If you know why she left then you weren't pimping."

First of all playa, thanks for showing enough respect to cite ya boy as the source of that particular quote. However, as much as Rex would like to claim that quote as his own, I can't, because I didn't say that. I'm quoting John "Rosebudd Bitterdose," D!ckson (legendary pimp,) 27th Rule of Pimpin'
as he enumerated them in memoir, American Pimp

This is the quote in it's entirety

When a Hoe Leaves Your Ass, Don’t Try to Figure it Out

“All women are fickle. Hoes are no different. Women function on 99.9% emotions. B*tches leave for the dumbest reasons or no reason at all. Least of all the reason you think it is. And I’ll tell you something else, if you know why the hoe left, you weren’t pimpin’. If a real pimp spots a problem he’s obligated to solve it. That’s why when a hoe leaves you’re not suppose to know why..”

 

[Bokanovsky]

Roissy I don't care for. He's said some good things, but overall I find him negative and largely full of sh!t.

What is the difference between someone who is negative and full of sh!t and someone who is positive and full of sh!t? The positive one is trying to sell you something. Anyone who thinks that David D and his ilk are anything other than scam artists, and that they are actually good with women and speak from experience, is very naive. All you need to do is google pics of David D's girlfriend (make sure to have a barf bag handy). If you're paying money to David D, you might as well buy one of those books that teach you how to become a millionaire.

As for Pook, I did not know that he sold sh!t but it doesn't surprise me. For the life of me, I can't understand why he is venerated so much on this forum. I mean, he hasn't posted in like what, more than 10 years? And people are still talking about him. The guy's writing style is nauseating. He can't make a point without resorting to some silly fairy tale analogy. I think that a lot of people don't actually understand what Pook is saying, which is why they think that he is brilliant.