What is the expected success rate at college bars?

[analyticparalytic]

College senior here. Finally grew a pair and made about 10 (pitiful, I know) approaches last night with my wing who is just as inexperienced as me. It was a bloodbath, we were getting blown out left right and center, and it really threw us off so we took a lot of time to lick our wounds between sets. My openers were generally complimenting something specific about their outfits, cold reading their ethnicity, asking if we had a certain class together.

I'd say about 5 of them refused to even look me in the eye and gave the shortest possible answer to all my questions, just zero initial interest. Is there anything I can do here to salvage these or do I literally just need to walk away and start the next set?

And second question, is getting blown out to be expected a significant proportion (50%+) of the time or am I not as attractive as I think I am? I keep getting really confused because all of my friends say I'm objectively attractive. I'm 5'10" and have been going to the gym extremely consistently since freshman year. Strangers (off the top of my head: old ladies, random gay guys, dudes I meet at hostels) often call me attractive. Just last week I went shopping with my stylist friend and spent way too much money on clothes to update my wardrobe. And yet, the cold approaches are giving me nothing.

The rest of the approaches were just sort of polite conversation. The topic always ends up at work or school or where they're from and I tease them for their major or geographic stereotypes or whatever but the conversation always end up platonic. I keep searching girls' eyes for that spark of "oh he's cute" and flirting during conversation and did not see a single IOI last night.

So basically, asking for my own sanity, how many approaches should I expect to do at a college bar before getting into a set that goes anywhere? How many blowouts? What do I do if there aren't any IOIs initially based on my looks?

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Is there anything I can do here to salvage these

No, low interest is low interest.

And second question, is getting blown out to be expected a significant proportion (50%+) of the time or am I not as attractive as I think I am? I keep getting really confused because all of my friends say I'm objectively attractive. I'm 5'10" and have been going to the gym extremely consistently since freshman year. Strangers (off the top of my head: old ladies, random gay guys, dudes I meet at hostels) often call me attractive.

Yes. I have the same experience with compliments from strangers and people I know even in my mid 30s. Funny you mention old ladies too as I actually think that can be a really good indicator of your attractiveness. I had an old lady the other day tell me I looked like a movie star and she was obviously not trying to get anything out of it but wanted to give someone a sincere compliment without an ulterior motive which old men do with younger women too though they get labelled creepy.

Anyway back onto your point. In my early 20s I literally walked by a woman at a bar and hear her say say "omg you're so attractive" with puppy dog eyes, and she gave me her # and came over to my a couple weeks later. In that same period in my life, at any given time, a good chunk of % of my approaches led to rejection, easily over 50% probably like 90-95%. Over the years this number became much lower and at one point I only did 1 or 2 in a single night but they would almost always lead to #s and dates because I emphasized quality over quantity (and by that I don't mean quality of women but quality of the entire interaction, which has many variables not just IOIs but things like reading the room and recognizing your own mental state, etc) though some may say that quantity matters and it's a numbers game, but that's only true if sheer volume is needed to compensate.

I keep searching girls' eyes for that spark of "oh he's cute" and flirting during conversation and did not see a single IOI last night.

This is a mindset problem. Women sniff this out a mile away. It's one of their better qualities, reading social cues, it's basically their only real superpower. If you go out with the intention of looking for IOIs or even go out with the intention to "meet women" it will become self-defeating (and no, you can't hide this). Personally, I don't find approaching for the sake of approaching to have ANY value whatsoever in 2024, especially at bars. It's much better to go about your day doing things you already wanted to do in places you want to be, and talk to women incidentally, ie the gym, grocery stores, parks, whatever. If you go out to a bar or club do it because you want to with your buddy and don't even talk about women and put them out of your mind. A couple quick stories: #1 Few years back I was at a bar with my friend just bored and not really intending to get laid (didn't have condoms). I saw a group of women sitting at a table and hadn't even done an approach let alone gotten laid in a long time. I went up and calmly & slowly grabbed a chair and sat down on it while making eye contact and started talking to all of them. Among them was this blonde chick who was a legit 9/10 and before long I was giving her a piggyback ride to a bar and we made out in the bar and later she bought me dinner and I went back to her place...why? Because I wasn't trying to make anything happen or being outcome dependant by looking for IOIs (it's good to act or even rely on IOIs but actively looking for them is a huge mistake). #2 In my early 20s I went out solo and got drunk and basically said "i'm going to approach women and I don't give two shvts what happens." You can tell yourself you don't care all day but there's a difference between not caring and saying you don't care and tbh I'm not sure how to cultivate that on a whim...sometimes it just happens and that's about recognizing your mental states. Anyway I literally did 1 single approach and went up to a girl at a bar with her friend and started basically groping her and got her # and she too came over to my place a week or two later and it was because I had sheer indifference rather than a thirsty and validation seeking attitude.

To add to this, when you're out and about in normal everyday environments and not looking or expecting anything from women, you will get IOIs and small windows where a women basically subtly invites you to make a move. Just know you must act FAST because that window is small. I do actually find these situations more intimidating than doing the mindless approach robot style that you alluded to, because you they're high pressure, spontaneous situations and the fear of succeeding is actually more anxiety-provoking than a rejection in this context because a rejection means it's over and done, but if they actually like you, you are then faced with the task of escalating and not fvcking up an opportunity that jumps on your lap. Basically the skill here is called "killer instinct" ie having the skill to recognize opportunities and act on them spontaneously. It's a completely different skillset and mentality from normal, high volume approaches, and it's something I absolutely struggle with nowadays and have thrown away opportunities (you can read about them here I've posted 3 but it's happened several more times) and it's quite painful...so just be aware. Robotic spam approaches are low investment though and can be good for at least learning some of the basic skills and inner game without much disappointment or guilt.

Oh and a quick tip I find helps...never bring condoms with you, even on dates, and especially not when going out in general. I genuinely think carrying condoms puts you in this weird mental space where you are suddenly hoping to get to use them. If you don't bring them and don't put much care into your appearance (just enough to be presentable) you may find women suddenly treat you very differently. They love when men aren't thirsty or validation seeking, and simple things like that really can set you apart.

 

[Travel memoir21]

College Bars are just a great way to hang out with your friend to have fun. If you’re having fun the girls will see that, and gravitate towards your group.


Anyways, but bars are generally not a top notch place to meet women anyways. You want to be going to Parks, grocery stores, hobby groups, church or any other type of social circle you may have.


Just be busy, living your life and let it come to you.
Did I mention Parks are an underrated place to meet women?

 

[BPH]

I made this post not long ago, if you have time I'd suggest giving it a read: https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/how-to-really-get-girls.282763/

There are too many factors to list EXACTLY what you should do, so I'll just bullet point some suggestions:

• Go later rather than earlier. Girls that are at the bar early are usually semi-sober with friends and using it as a free pregame for a party later on. The girls that are there 1-2 hours before close are USUALLY single and more open to making plans afterward with you.
• Don't use a wing, especially if he sucks too. You don't need a support group to talk to a woman, and more often than not they won't properly read the room, or may even become your competition. If a girl is concerned about why you're alone, you can mention that you're with X friend waiting for you in X part of the bar or something, but most of the time they won't care and may even be impressed you had the balls to approach them by yourself.
• Flirt, you're there to f*** her, not be her friend. I usually open with some variation of "hey I thought you were gorgeous and had to come say hi, what's your name?" Don't talk to her about school or work - she's at the bar to NOT think about those things. Spell it out that you're attracted to her, and see how she reacts.
• Social circles matter. You'll have a better experience approaching girls when there are fewer of them in a group. Most women will not want to appear "slutty" or overly eager, even if she's very attracted to you, because she's worried about how her actions will be perceived by her peers. The best-case scenario involves her being alone, which is rare, but allows her to react genuinely when it comes to whether or not she's interested. Another consideration is to not approach every attractive girl you see at the bar with the same lines because you WILL develop a reputation this way - have standards and don't double-dip in the same friend group.
• Save the PDA (public display of affection) for later. This does not mean you CAN kiss her at the bar if you both are really hitting it off, but most women will save this for later, as per the point above.
• Try to have fun. When you're wondering what to do or say to these women, just think about what would be the most fun. Take a shot with her, invite her out on the dance floor, go in for the kiss, whatever feels like a natural progression. Don't just sit there in the corner looking for conversation topics when she's wearing full-makeup, her best push-up bra, her tightest clothes, wondering whether you're going to make a move.

That's about all I have off the top of my head.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

So basically, asking for my own sanity, how many approaches should I expect to do at a college bar before getting into a set that goes anywhere? How many blowouts?

With your current experience level, I'd say about 169 approaches, and 375 blowouts.

What do I do if there aren't any IOIs initially based on my looks?

Become attractive.

 

[inquisitor]

College senior here. Finally grew a pair and made about 10 (pitiful, I know) approaches last night with my wing who is just as inexperienced as me. It was a bloodbath, we were getting blown out left right and center, and it really threw us off so we took a lot of time to lick our wounds between sets. My openers were generally complimenting something specific about their outfits, cold reading their ethnicity, asking if we had a certain class together.

I'd say about 5 of them refused to even look me in the eye and gave the shortest possible answer to all my questions, just zero initial interest. Is there anything I can do here to salvage these or do I literally just need to walk away and start the next set?

And second question, is getting blown out to be expected a significant proportion (50%+) of the time or am I not as attractive as I think I am? I keep getting really confused because all of my friends say I'm objectively attractive. I'm 5'10" and have been going to the gym extremely consistently since freshman year. Strangers (off the top of my head: old ladies, random gay guys, dudes I meet at hostels) often call me attractive. Just last week I went shopping with my stylist friend and spent way too much money on clothes to update my wardrobe. And yet, the cold approaches are giving me nothing.

The rest of the approaches were just sort of polite conversation. The topic always ends up at work or school or where they're from and I tease them for their major or geographic stereotypes or whatever but the conversation always end up platonic. I keep searching girls' eyes for that spark of "oh he's cute" and flirting during conversation and did not see a single IOI last night.

So basically, asking for my own sanity, how many approaches should I expect to do at a college bar before getting into a set that goes anywhere? How many blowouts? What do I do if there aren't any IOIs initially based on my looks?

You seem to be lacking in social skills, including understanding introductory cues. Situate first near a girl you like. Check if she has someone with her. Gauge the room and her interests based solely on how she presents herself and how she interacts with other people. Ask yourself, do you really want her? What is she wearing? How does she speak? Wait for her to see you first before you open, or not at all - just be in the periphery. Ignore her for a while. Wait for an interesting moment. Then surprise her with a first impression that you had thought through. Ensure that whatever you have said, she smiles afterward. Now you're in.

 

[parabellum]

You seem to be lacking in social skills, including understanding introductory cues. Situate first near a girl you like. Check if she has someone with her. Gauge the room and her interests based solely on how she presents herself and how she interacts with other people. Ask yourself, do you really want her? What is she wearing? How does she speak? Wait for her to see you first before you open, or not at all - just be in the periphery. Ignore her for a while. Wait for an interesting moment. Then surprise her with a first impression that you had thought through. Ensure that whatever you have said, she smiles afterward. Now you're in.

For what is worth it. If the girl thinks you’re or look “creepy-ish” you’re done. If the girl thinks you’re attractive she’ll cut you some slack proportional to your attractiveness. Hence I second AA advice of becoming attractive. There’s plenty of material in SS to get going on that.

Secondly, I agree with BHP MOA, I don’t think it’ll do you any good to lurk before approaching, and once you do it be direct. This becomes important if you’re alone vs not alone. Not alone you have the option of just chilling chat etc. IMO Being alone you really need to be comfortable in your own skin, almost like you own the bar and are just having a drink to people-watch and be amused by the childish behavior of your customers. Therefore you’re outcome independent , in addition to time constrained because you must have important stuff to do other than permitting yourself some amusing time. As the owner of the bar you can always come back and have fun later.

 

[inquisitor]

If the girl thinks you’re or look “creepy-ish” you’re done. If the girl thinks you’re attractive she’ll cut you some slack proportional to your attractiveness. Hence I second AA advice of becoming attractive. There’s plenty of material in SS to get going on that.

I'd have to agree. Some girls just don't like you, and the girls who COULD like you more, will definitely be swayed more to your advances the more you improve on your looks.

Secondly, I agree with BHP MOA, I don’t think it’ll do you any good to lurk before approaching, and once you do it be direct. This becomes important if you’re alone vs not alone. Not alone you have the option of just chilling chat etc. IMO Being alone you really need to be comfortable in your own skin, almost like you own the bar and are just having a drink to people-watch and be amused by the childish behavior of your customers. Therefore you’re outcome independent , in addition to time constrained because you must have important stuff to do other than permitting yourself some amusing time. As the owner of the bar you can always come back and have fun later.

That kind of bar owner mindset is a good one to use, although internal arrogance must first be beat, and one must also be calm and collected instead of lost and wandering, hence the responsibility of the man to know what he wants first, or at least have an idea of what he wants, before pushing through with any sort of approach.

This is still regardless of outcome - if he knows what he wants and does not get it, then either his wants must be reviewed, or his approach must be adjusted, or today is simply not yet his time. If he gets it, well, that's the aim, and good for him.

 

[MatureDJ]

I had a GPA for approaching at college bars that was on the order of this:

 

[BaronOfHair]

My openers were generally complimenting something specific about their outfits, cold reading their ethnicity, asking if we had a certain class together.

I'd say about 5 of them refused to even look me in the eye and gave the shortest possible answer to all my questions, just zero initial interest

Had you just asked their blood type and shoe size, each of these broads would've dropped trow, bent over, and begged you to make them yours, right there in the bar!!!


"So basically, asking for my own sanity, how many approaches should I expect to do at a college bar before getting into a set that goes anywhere?"

It'd behoove you to craft patter that's at least mildly more seductive than what you've been pitching thus far, hombre

 

[MatureDJ]

I'd say about 5 of them refused to even look me in the eye and gave the shortest possible answer to all my questions, just zero initial interest. Is there anything I can do here to salvage these or do I literally just need to walk away and start the next set?

A woman's hypergamy starts out at her peak - i.e., a new freshman coed - and if she is not fat, she is no mood to shoot for anything less than Chad-tier.

And second question, is getting blown out to be expected a significant proportion (50%+) of the time or am I not as attractive as I think I am? I keep getting really confused because all of my friends say I'm objectively attractive. I'm 5'10" and have been going to the gym extremely consistently since freshman year. Strangers (off the top of my head: old ladies, random gay guys, dudes I meet at hostels) often call me attractive.

Gay men just want to stick their manhood into your anus. I think they tell cishet men that they are attractive just on the rare chance that their target is also gay.

At 5'10", you are considered a bit on the short side.

Just last week I went shopping with my stylist friend and spent way too much money on clothes to update my wardrobe. And yet, the cold approaches are giving me nothing.

An Incel-tier man with sharp clothes is still an Incel-tier man.

So basically, asking for my own sanity, how many approaches should I expect to do at a college bar before getting into a set that goes anywhere? How many blowouts?

I've had a lot of "winless seasons" for an evening, like 0-14, or one time 0-22. That last one was on "Spring Break" in Florida, and so frustrated was I after that I ended up going to a strip joint a block or so away from that nightclub, where I got a lot of attention from women. Folks say that you need to just keep sawing wood (pun NOT intended), but really, it's BRUTAL.

What do I do if there aren't any IOIs initially based on my looks?

What is the age of consent in your state? Looking back, it seems that I had some IOI from high-school chicks that would sneak into the bars; I probably should have *carefully* pursued that.

 

[BaronOfHair]

I've had a lot of "winless seasons" for an evening, like 0-14, or one time 0-22.

Spending one's free time prowling the internet for articles and videos such as

Cheer up, there will be senior speed-dating in your future!

https://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/2024/1008/Dropping-the-senior-in-senior-center-Beyond-bingo-there-s-speed-dating-and-travel Bingo and card games aren’t gone, she says, but if you think that’s all a senior center offers, think again. Indeed, think: speed dating, pickleball, tech labs, song...

www.sosuave.net

https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...-meeting-or-even-speaking-to-such-men.283016/ leaves said prowler highly unattractive. Not just to women, but most people more generally

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

A woman's hypergamy starts out at her peak - i.e., a new freshman coed - and if she is not fat, she is no mood to shoot for anything less than Chad-tier.

Gay men just want to stick their manhood into your anus. I think they tell cishet men that they are attractive just on the rare chance that their target is also gay.

At 5'10", you are considered a bit on the short side.

An Incel-tier man with sharp clothes is still an Incel-tier man.

I've had a lot of "winless seasons" for an evening, like 0-14, or one time 0-22. That last one was on "Spring Break" in Florida, and so frustrated was I after that I ended up going to a strip joint a block or so away from that nightclub, where I got a lot of attention from women. Folks say that you need to just keep sawing wood (pun NOT intended), but really, it's BRUTAL.

What is the age of consent in your state? Looking back, it seems that I had some IOI from high-school chicks that would sneak into the bars; I probably should have *carefully* pursued that.

It's interesting, reading these statements, that you have no inkling how creepy you are.

 

[characternote]

it's to be expected.

Cold approaching random hot girls who aren't giving you IOI's is an incredibly low odds game unless you hit the genetic lottery and are young, tall, in great shape with a handsome face.

Don't lose hope. Keep doing what you're doing. If your experience is anything like mine, from time to time you will hit the lottery and bang a girl way way out of your league. (my theory is simply that not all girls have 'typical' taste in what they think handsome is, and sometimes you will be her idea of 'hot' despite the prior 20, uglier girls thinking you look gross lol)

But there's basically zero chance any tips from anyone here or elsewhere would effect your results. If a girl is into you, the bar is very low. Be somewhat normal in convo and flirt and have the balls to escalate. People shouldn't need to read a book on this.

If the girls aren't into you at all (as seemed to be the case from your description of girls insta rejecting, ignoring you etc) then that's out of your control. This is where the PUA snakeoil dudes made their money in the old days. Fooling people into believing that if only they'd opened with a neg and then disqualified themselves or were 'c0cky-funny' or used NLP on her etc etc, then it would have ended in a lay lol. Attraction comes first. And it's not open for negotiation.

If you saw your favourite PUA god or someone from a forum like this who talks like he's Don Juan, you'd be incredibly dissapointed if you saw them in person and tracked their results on a night out approaching hot young girls. (one example would be back when people like RSDmax and the guys from 'simplepickup' filmed themselves unedited, streaming their approaches from nights out etc. Blood bath. Very very low hit rate despite their 'game knowledge')

No, low interest is low interest.

this

 

[SW15]

I've had a lot of "winless seasons" for an evening, like 0-14, or one time 0-22. That last one was on "Spring Break" in Florida, and so frustrated was I after that I ended up going to a strip joint a block or so away from that nightclub, where I got a lot of attention from women.

An 0 for 14 night would be terrible. An 0 for 22 day/night on Spring Break in Florida in the 1980s sounds like torture.

On the day/night you went 0 for 22, there were a lot more than 22 women that you considered approaching too.

It's been less common for men in the last 15-20 years to have 0 for 10+ nights at nightlife venues anymore. There's not enough in-person approaching for that to happen. Even daygame men less commonly will do 10+ approaches in a day.

Men now take a lot of "digital" L's, sometimes going 0 for hundreds or even thousands from behind an electronic screen.

In real life, men can take a lot of L's prior to getting a yes. It's common for men to have 50+ bad interactions in person prior to finding same day/same night sex or a first date that leads to a sexual relationship.

 

[characternote]

In real life, men can take a lot of L's prior to getting a yes. It's common for men to have 50+ bad interactions in person prior to finding same day/same night sex or a first date that leads to a sexual relationship.

I didn't really want to put numbers out there as I expect there's still people from sites like 'skilled seducer' either selling courses etc OR just plain internet weirdo's who simply can't NOT lie on forums like this as they get off on trying to look like some sort of mega stud lol

But since you've put some numbers out there, i'll throw some around, too

A few years back when I was getting laid a lot and got myself a notch count approaching triple digits, I was going out on Fri and Sat nights. I would make approx 40 approaches per night. (an 'approach' could just be 'hey' and then seeing if there was any interest at all or not. I got good at knowing within less than a second whether i'd be wasting my time or not)

I was getting laid MOST weekends. (so maybe it took me 60 approaches or so to get laid?)/

but there were some occasions where I wouldn't get laid in 2 weeks so maybe got blown out by like 150 girls lol.

Also worth noting that I'm well in my 30's, not tall, not the best looking, and i'd typically ONLY hit on very hot girls who are around 18. So playing on mega hard mode. The same game i'm still playing btw! haha. But less volume nowadays. (plus i've thrown in some social circle stuff to make it easier)

I know everything under the sun about 'game' and there's nothing anyone can teach me, but tbh, overtime I learnt that it's all kind of irrelevant anyway! You need VERY little 'game' when a girl is into you, and all the game on planet earth doesn't help at all if you are NOT her type at all and there's zero sexual attraction there! So it's all fairly moot, really.

And my numbers tend to line up when I compare results of my various friends and wingmen of varying attractiveness over the years. Also videos like I mentioned before help validate my numbers. Both Kong of simplepickup and even maxrsd (who i'd say is a decent looking dude) were getting rejected non stop when they filmed unedited, non cherry picked approaching. Probably like 40 rejections in a row each from memory before they decided to call it a night and went home alone. (Kongs in particular tended to be quite brutal! Just rude girls telling him to 'go away' after he introduced himself lol)

Tom Torerro claimed it took him like 30 approaches to get laid, but we can probably multiply that by 10 coming from a PUA who made his money with PUA and who faked infields! (and admitted it)

It's simply a very low odds game. Only people telling you otherwise are people who:

a/ are banging girls way below them. Old, not hot, fat etc.
b/ are EXTREMELY attractive. And tbh, I don't think anyone like that would ever even find their way onto a site like this. The stupidly handsome guys I know who used to SLAY it with girls simply weren't remotely aware of 'game' etc and I can't imagine for a second them posting on sites like this. Young guys who look like male models, or celebs etc!
c/liars. Either because they are selling something (such as chase and the guys as skilledseducer who claim, without irony, to be able to 'seduce' ANY girl they want!!! 100% approach to lay hit rate! lmao) OR because this is their second life where they get to escape their true identity and can get an online ego boost from pretending to get laid like Leo!

 

[SW15]

Tom Torerro claimed it took him like 30 approaches to get laid, but we can probably multiply that by 10 coming from a PUA who made his money with PUA and who faked infields! (and admitted it)

Below is an early 2020 article from Tom Torero on the daygame and its power to produce results.

The Art of Daygame Seduction – Tom Torero - Alpha Male 2.0

Today’s article is written by my favorite daygame guy, Tom Torero. There is also a FREE audio component to this article, available for everyone. Tom will also be replying in the comments. Take it away, Tom!

alphamale20.com

What kind of realistic expectations should you have? Well, depending on your starting point, your mileage will vary. But a solid daygamer should be able to get a number from 25% of the girls he approaches. Out of those numbers, 25% should come out on dates. And from those dates, 25% should end up in his bed. If you think those statistics are depressing then look at your ratios for Tinder or dating sites.

Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. It would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.

It's simply a very low odds game.

In general, this is true. Most middle of the bell curve men will put up unimpressive statistics and have a high rejection rate with approaching strangers in any venue.

a/ are banging girls way below them. Old, not hot, fat etc.
b/ are EXTREMELY attractive. And tbh, I don't think anyone like that would ever even find their way onto a site like this. The stupidly handsome guys I know who used to SLAY it with girls simply weren't remotely aware of 'game' etc and I can't imagine for a second them posting on sites like this. Young guys who look like male models, or celebs etc!

Those two things help odds. A lot of middle of the bell curve guys will do Option A.

Option B is better. The best thing for seduction is to be 6'0"+ and muscular/fit. Option B will enhance odds in approaching strangers but even those men will take some rejections.

 

[sangheilios]

I didn't really want to put numbers out there as I expect there's still people from sites like 'skilled seducer' either selling courses etc OR just plain internet weirdo's who simply can't NOT lie on forums like this as they get off on trying to look like some sort of mega stud lol

But since you've put some numbers out there, i'll throw some around, too

A few years back when I was getting laid a lot and got myself a notch count approaching triple digits, I was going out on Fri and Sat nights. I would make approx 40 approaches per night. (an 'approach' could just be 'hey' and then seeing if there was any interest at all or not. I got good at knowing within less than a second whether i'd be wasting my time or not)

I was getting laid MOST weekends. (so maybe it took me 60 approaches or so to get laid?)/

but there were some occasions where I wouldn't get laid in 2 weeks so maybe got blown out by like 150 girls lol.

Also worth noting that I'm well in my 30's, not tall, not the best looking, and i'd typically ONLY hit on very hot girls who are around 18. So playing on mega hard mode. The same game i'm still playing btw! haha. But less volume nowadays. (plus i've thrown in some social circle stuff to make it easier)

I know everything under the sun about 'game' and there's nothing anyone can teach me, but tbh, overtime I learnt that it's all kind of irrelevant anyway! You need VERY little 'game' when a girl is into you, and all the game on planet earth doesn't help at all if you are NOT her type at all and there's zero sexual attraction there! So it's all fairly moot, really.

And my numbers tend to line up when I compare results of my various friends and wingmen of varying attractiveness over the years. Also videos like I mentioned before. Both Kong of simplepickup and even maxrsd (who i'd say is a decent looking dude) were getting rejected non stop when they filmed unedited, non cherry picked approaching. Probably like 40 rejections in a row each from memory before they decided to call it a night and went home alone. (Kongs in particular tended to be quite brutal! Just rude girls telling him to 'go away' after he introduced himself lol)

Tom Torerro claimed it took him like 30 approaches to get laid, but we can probably multiply that by 10 coming from a PUA who made his money with PUA and who faked infields! (and admitted it)

It's simply a very low odds game. Only people telling you otherwise are people who:

a/ are banging girls way below them. Old, not hot, fat etc.
b/ are EXTREMELY attractive. And tbh, I don't think anyone like that would ever even find their way onto a site like this. The stupidly handsome guys I know who used to SLAY it with girls simply weren't remotely aware of 'game' etc and I can't imagine for a second them posting on sites like this. Young guys who look like male models, or celebs etc!
c/liars. Either because they are selling something (such as chase and the guys as skilledseducer who claim, without irony, to be able to 'seduce' ANY girl they want!!! 100% approach to lay hit rate! lmao) OR because this is their second life where they get to escape their true identity and can get an online ego boost from pretending to get laid like Leo!

Exactly, man, what you are mentioning on here is what I've been repeating for a while on here lol.

I'm going to factor out extremely attractive "Chad" types, in the real world these guys are very rare. Outside of very isolated markets, like high school or on a college campus, only a tiny percentage of men are going to be able to show up anywhere and have this effect on women when they walk in, it's not even worth considering. We are literally talking about high level male models, attractive celebrities, etc.

As for night game and bar approaches, I think what you are mentioning is totally accurate. These venues are honestly not a great place to meet women but the one main benefit it does have is it creates an abundance of approach opportunities. With this out of the way, there are definitely a lot of challenges with approaching in this environment and it's also not for every guy out there, including me. A lot of guys just don't have the time or emotional energy to go out regularly and put in the necessary volume of approaches to make this work.

As for the men that are highly sexually active, I totally agree with your comments. I can cite several examples of other men I've known or known of that were "player" types and it goes completely against what a lot of these black/red pill guys believe with this "Chad" nonsense. There is one guy in particular I know who was like this, he's now close to 30 and more or less settled down with a steady gf now. When he was in his early to mid 20s, he used Tinder and swipe apps a ton and was getting a lot of success with that. He was around 6'3" and had a handsome face and a decent build, so a real world 7-8. Anyway, I remember having this preconceived notion that a lot of these women were super hot lol, but I was completely incorrect. Most of the women he was landing back then were honestly very average and there were many that I'd honestly consider below average, almost slam pig type status lol. The steady gfs that he did have though were around his level or maybe a tad lower, which is pretty typical from my observations.

As for the con men and liars, I also totally agree. I won't name any particular posters, but there are several on here that regularly post nonsense about having incredible success with an abundance of prospects and sexual conquests. However, they will then go on about how they are all very young women in their primes, literally every single one of their conquests is 7+ lol......meanwhile they are average guys at best well past their 20s lol. It's basically just about attention and needing an ego boost. As for the PUA guys though, the simple answer is they are just trying to sell stuff to men that are struggling.

 

[sangheilios]

Below is an early 2020 article from Tom Torero on the daygame and its power to produce results.

The Art of Daygame Seduction – Tom Torero - Alpha Male 2.0

Today’s article is written by my favorite daygame guy, Tom Torero. There is also a FREE audio component to this article, available for everyone. Tom will also be replying in the comments. Take it away, Tom!

alphamale20.com

Based on this, a daygamer would need to approach 75 women to get 19 phone numbers, 4-5 dates, and 1 new sexual partner. That's using a strong systematic approach like the London Daygame Model. I think a lot of daygamers need to approach more than 75 women to find a new sexual partner. It would realistically take most men a while to do the 75 day approaches to find a new sexual partner. Additionally, in going through this, one would probably want that sexual partner to last for some amount of time based on the effort it takes to approach 75 women in non-bar venues.



In general, this is true. Most middle of the bell curve men will put up unimpressive statistics and have a high rejection rate with approaching strangers in any venue.



Those two things help odds. A lot of middle of the bell curve guys will do Option A.

Option B is better. The best thing for seduction is to be 6'0"+ and muscular/fit. Option B will enhance odds in approaching strangers but even those men will take some rejections.

This stuff is the reason why most men ultimately are better off settling down with a woman around their level instead of trying to be a "player", which requires a huge investment of your time and emotional energy.

The problem today though is that men are competing with social media and online dating app options that are available to women. This is the reason why there are so many frustrated men getting absolutely nowhere and why content pertaining to the red pill, MGTOW, etc. is garnering more attention.

 

[inquisitor]

Be somewhat normal in convo and flirt and have the balls to escalate. People shouldn't need to read a book on this.

Frankly, if some men really want to increase their chances and minimize their failures, they SHOULD read books, apart of course from the NECESSARY approaching and talking to women. There's plenty of resources out there of men who already learned. Experience is a different teacher, and just as important. Combine these two, and a man is guaranteed to get what he worked for.