What is masculinity and femininity

[Nocturnal]

On of the ideas that I've applauded and kept myself aware of for a while, is the idea that we must, as pook would say, "embrace our sexuality." But one thing that I've never had a completely clear understanding of, is what the term "sexuality," in the context that pook uses at least, is meant to mean.

What does "sexuality" mean? At least in the context I'm presenting it in, it does not merely refer to the act of sex itself, but also the qualities that make men distinctly different than women, but primarily in a sense that can be understood to be applied in the uniting of men and women in an earthly, almost primitive manner that reaches into the essences of what makes us human.

That is loaded, tough-to-decrypt word, "sexuality". But in application, let's break it down into "masculinity," and "femininity," the portions of sexuality that can be applied to something concrete, a man or a woman.

My question is this, in the provided context of sexuality, what makes a man masculine and what makes a woman feminine? I hope this discussion might help to clarify some items of importance.

 

[rgeere]

I always looked at it just like the ying yang.

All people have masculin/feminine qualities. It's just that men have more masculine qualities than they do feminine qualities, and women have more feminine qualities than they do masculine qualities.It is impossible to think that anyone can be 100% masculine and 100% feminine; because each has a little bit of the other and the amount varies in diffrent people.

However, it is because of this diffrence that you have alpha and beta males. Alpha males appeal to women because they are more masculine and dominant, but betas and some alpha males with nicer qualities appeal to women because they have both masculine and feminine qualities and are easier to live with. To say that all women perfer one over the other is utterly rediculous, because they don't.

 

[Wyldfire]

To simplify what Pook meant by that...

Emracing one's "sexuality" is understanding that men and women were created to COMPLEMENT each other, NOT compete with each other.

Men and women each have strengths and weaknesses, when brought together form a team that was intended to work together effectively and in a way that provided for the instinctive needs and gratification of both. Somewhere along the way men were taught to be more feminine and women were taught to be more masculine and it shakes up the "natural fit" that exists when each gender just does what their instincts tell them to do. When Pook wrote "Embrace your sexuality" he meant to resist the messages society sends you that is in direct conflict with those natural instincts....or, to "Be a Man". (or woman, depending on your sex.)

 

[Nocturnal]

Rgeere: I agree completely. In fact, yin and yang is even applied to men and women... men being more yang, women more yin. Yang is known to be more a more active and "loud" property, whereas yin is more passive and "quiet" one. And obviously men have some softer characteristics, and women have some louder ones.

Wyldfire: I agree completely, and thanks for the clarification (which is mostly what I had in mind anyway).

However... to be more specific, what are the specific qualities included under "masculinity" and the ones under "femininity"?

 

[Virtú]

The specific qualities are pretty much the clichéd ones you read about all the time on this site.

CONFIDENCE - Your belief in your worthiness, effectiveness, and deserving-ness that extends beyond logic, beyond mantras, and beyond feelings.

CHARISMA - Your ability to attract attention to yourself simply by being there. The likelihood of others to like you and enjoy your company. Physical appearance is a big part of this, along with your reputation.

SEXUALITY - Your ability to arouse sexual interest and desire in women. Your ability and likelihood to express and act on your own sexual interest and desire. The first is purely physical (hot or not), the second is what the bulk of the information on this site discusses.

AGGRESSION - The quantitative element. Aggression is your likelihood to get up off your ass and fight for what you want. Aggression is the degree to which you pursue something (intensity, motivation, dedication, etc). Aggression is the big one; it is what separates men from boys.

COMPETITIVENESS - I don't understand this one fully myself. Basically, it has to do with how you react to another person's superiority to or advantage over yourself. Do you break down and get depressed, or do you get pissed and stop at nothing to surpass them?

LEADERSHIP & DOMINANCE - Your ability and likelihood to take and keep control of and responsibility for yourself, others, and the world around you. Husbands and fathers, team captains, ringleaders, etc.

EGOISM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egoism) - Are you a tool? Are you a stepping stone? If so, you are not egoistic. Do you matter to yourself? Do you do as you please? If not, you are not egoistic.

These are the masculine traits in their simplest forms; the degree to which you possess them AND follow through on them is the measure of your masculinity.

CAVEAT: Understanding masculinity doesn't make becoming and being masculine any easier

 

[Engetsu]

I researched this for a Philosophy class last year, and I broke down the qualities that make a man "masculine" and a woman "feminine". These qualities can be either a) found in literature (books, websites, etc.) or b) witnessed in more traditional households. Google it if you're very curious or can't use common sense.

For the attraction part, I suggest checking out the philosophy of Otto Weininger, who says that men with an x percentage of masculinity find a perfect mate in a woman who has an x percentage of femininity: in other words, a couple must always total 1 man + 1 woman, with percentages that are separated between the two. It makes sense logically, and if you witness some couples around you (outlaw biker banging the hot cheerleader), you'll find that it's even more congruent with reality.
Here's a website to read his theories: <http://www.theabsolute.net/ottow/sexcharh.html> (what I'm describing is under "The Laws of Sexual Attraction".

Finally, a test to find out how "masculine" you are can be found on <http://www.thespark.com>. I think it follows the same principle, even if it may not be 100% accurate...

This stuff is really fun though

 

[Virtú]

Perhaps, but how do you increase the proportion of masculinity within yourself? Or the proportion that you bring to a relationship?

These are the questions that most guys here need answers for.

 

[Engetsu]

Originally posted by Virtú
Perhaps, but how do you increase the proportion of masculinity within yourself? Or the proportion that you bring to a relationship?

These are the questions that most guys here need answers for.

This is why this website exists

 

[Virtú]

1. Lack of aggression = no pursuit of confidence, charisma, etc.

2. Lack of confidence, charisma, etc = lack of masculinity.

3. Lack of masculinity = lack of aggression = loop starts all over again.

It's the chicken and the egg, a causality paradox, where one cannot get something because they do not already have it.

This is what holds me back, what holds most of us back.
Being a pussified AFC waste of flesh KEEPS you a pussified AFC waste of flesh.

Wanting to change, knowing how to change, and it being possible to change are not enough.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
On of the ideas that I've applauded and kept myself aware of for a while, is the idea that we must, as pook would say, "embrace our sexuality." But one thing that I've never had a completely clear understanding of, is what the term "sexuality," in the context that pook uses at least, is meant to mean.

What does "sexuality" mean?

That's the main reason why I don't get too much excited about Pook's posts. "embrace sexuality", is just theory. Define it to me and it'll be totally different because now it'll HAVE A MEANING!

His posts are too theoretical! One thing is to say, to preach, but another one is to apply it!

 

[Nocturnal]

Two things:

1) Certainly there are many cliches concerning what it is to "be a man" and what is not. But are they correct? Arrogance would probably be categorized as a more "manly" trait, but is it one?

2) What about femininity? Surely we can say that a man is confident, charismatic, agressive, etc, but does that mean to be feminine is to contradict all of these things? It doesn't seem like it. If we can define femininity, then surely we can better deduce which qualities apply to masculinity. Do true feminine characteristic contradict the feminist movement completely? Not modern feminism, but the feminism exclaiming that women should have the right to vote, get paid equally for equal work, etc.

 

[Double]

Originally posted by Virtú
1. Lack of aggression = no pursuit of confidence, charisma, etc.

2. Lack of confidence, charisma, etc = lack of masculinity.

3. Lack of masculinity = lack of aggression = loop starts all over again.

It's the chicken and the egg, a causality paradox, where one cannot get something because they do not already have it.

This is what holds me back, what holds most of us back.
Being a pussified AFC waste of flesh KEEPS you a pussified AFC waste of flesh.

Wanting to change, knowing how to change, and it being possible to change are not enough.

i'm surely not the first to tell you this ------->BUILD MORE MUSCLE MASS<------ but still you are posting instead of working out? BULK THE **** UP!!!!! chicken and egg blablablabla is it so hard to go to a gym/buy weights....

 

[Virtú]

Re: Re: What is masculinity and femininity

Originally posted by Blue Phoenix
That's the main reason why I don't get too much excited about Pook's posts. "embrace sexuality", is just theory. Define it to me and it'll be totally different because now it'll HAVE A MEANING!

His posts are too theoretical! One thing is to say, to preach, but another one is to apply it!

SEXUALITY

Part 1: the ability to cause women to be sexually attracted to and interested in you - achieved through height, muscles, c0ck size, face, etc.

Part 2: the ability to express sexual desire and interest - achieved through suggestive behavior, masculine personality traits, etc.

 

[Virtú]

For Double:

What I'm describing is pretty much the same thing as:

"No job, no experience. No experience, no job."

 

[Double]

you WILL feel the PAIN when you leave your wussy comfort zone. for me it was very hard. just one short story: when i first went to a tanning salon i couldn't go in and went home b/c i was SO shy. but i tried another time, and this time i downed a half bottle vodka before and almost got in car crash b/c of that, but this time i made in the fvcking tanning salon! well i had gone a long way since then, and i just want to say if i can do it everyone can (if they face their fear)

 

[Double]

man you don't have to explain to me what the dilemma i know it MORE than enough, but what i want to say to you is, even if you will have to use things like alcohol or whatever to make it THERE ARE WAYS YOU WILL MAKE IT AND YOU WILL BE BETTER AND BETTER AND MORE MASCULINE AND MOOOORE MASCULINE JUST START WITH SMALL STEPS AND USE EVERYTHING YOU CAN!

 

[Engetsu]

Originally posted by Nocturnal
Two things:

1) Certainly there are many cliches concerning what it is to "be a man" and what is not. But are they correct? Arrogance would probably be categorized as a more "manly" trait, but is it one?

2) What about femininity? Surely we can say that a man is confident, charismatic, agressive, etc, but does that mean to be feminine is to contradict all of these things? It doesn't seem like it. If we can define femininity, then surely we can better deduce which qualities apply to masculinity. Do true feminine characteristic contradict the feminist movement completely? Not modern feminism, but the feminism exclaiming that women should have the right to vote, get paid equally for equal work, etc.

You're asking a very interesting question. Many people claim to know what defines a man, and what defines a woman, but biology is not advanced enough to be able to read into a human's DNA in order to speculate on his behaviour, because that's what distinguishes men and women: behaviour.

Before I pursue, I need to add that men and women, in our current society, have the same rights and are equal, and this does not in any way contradict the attributes of masculinity and femininity.

Based on what I have read, femininity and masculinity attributes are natural and determined by biology.

Male / Masculine
• Strong/Fast
• Aggressive
• Rational
• Promiscuous
• Visual
• Technical
• Practical
• Tough-minded
• Clumsy

Female/Feminine
• Weak
• Nurturing
• Emotional
• Sexually loyal
• Auditory
• Dexterous
• Romantic
• Suggestible
• Elegant

However this list is not foolproof, as Weininger advances, because there is no epitome of masculinity or femininity. This is due to the fact that some men and women have tendencies associated with gender attributes from the opposite sex.

He suggests that masculinity and femininity are not polarised concepts, but are more of a spectrum of intensity that defines each person based on his natural behaviour most of the time.

When you think about this even more, you may ask yourself that if it is not possible to be both highly masculine and feminine at different times. I for one agree with that, and it is for that reason that I added "most of the time" at the end of the last paragraph, because one may experience romantic behaviour once in a blue, it does not change his actions in his daily routine. The masculinity/feminity in a person should be taken as an average. If you are highly masculine 50% of the time and highly feminine the rest of the time, then you will be considered 50% masculine.

 

[Nocturnal]

Engetsu: I could see the idea of being on a 'spectrum' of sexuality. One thing I've been debating with myself is a yin/yang idea from China. People say that men are naturally more yang so they need to be more yin, and the opposite for women, but they say it not in a sexual sense. But I'm wondering if you can be a more 'yin,' or calm, passive person, without sacrificing your sexuality as a man.

 

[AverageFC]

would you believe that someone told me that men being overly feminine had nothing to do with them being homosexual?

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by AverageFC
would you believe that someone told me that men being overly feminine had nothing to do with them being homosexual?

femininity would just be a side effect of homosexuality.