What is it exactly that is destroying my LTR?

[jbbrain]

Oh no, I'm disappointed you're back (were you ever gone?)

Listen, black. Besides posting some good advice A LONG time ago for the newb virgins here to read, I never really appreciated your ideals relating to my circumstances. Everyone here who has posted a reply has not mentioned anything close to what you're spitting..which leads me to my next point..

what are you spitting anyways? You predicted I would be here posting posting what I am now? What am I posting genius?

Do you even know whats happening? So yeah, I almost broke up with my chick and now shes flipping out..did you predict that before smart ass?

Listen dog, its a free country, and you can really do whatever you want, but do all the reders here at sosuave a favour and keep your lame "I told you so's" to yourself when you are completely ignorant of the situation. It's like if anything goes wrong in jbbrain's relationships "I told you so"..weak.

You make me laugh, stop hijackign my thread. And oh, if you have something for me to read, make sure in the very least that the link works. thanks.

Oh, and in relation to your following thread (because I havent finished writing this masterpiece) I definitely agree about knowign what you want out of life and getting it: You're a prophet dude! I did want my girlfriend, and I still do, but taht doesnt mean were goign to have a conflict of expectations or whatnot and that these things cannot be overcome or at least understood in the context of open communication. I didnt know that at the beginning of the relationship that stuff would ever turn ou the way it did. Thats what makes it exciting. Now that there are certain things that have become issues for me, I intend to try my bst to remedy these things with her cooperation, and if it still doesnt jiove with me...well, believe me, I'm more than equipped to end things with her and be single again..

"So your next step is to decide whether to stay or go find what you truely want out of life"

Jesus Dr. Phil...

 

[Dark Nimbus]

Oh man, you are SO going to regret losing her if you end it, or worse, she ends it and finds another man. If your only issue in this relationship is that she doesn't initiate ideas or plan things, you're seriously going to be kicking yourself in the ass after it's over.

The fact is you pretty much did end it by trying to break up with her. She's NOT going to feel secure in your relationship based on how shocked she sounded when you brought the topic up. Put yourself in her position, would you be able to forget how easily your partner would be willing to dump your ass after putting your total trust in them?

Let me tell you something about polish girls too, once they find a guy they like, they're usually very loyal and make great wives, but you have to be a man's man. Right now not only did you put a wedge between yourself and her, you're acting weak by allowing her to keep dwelling on this topic. If I were you, I'd sit her down and tell her "Look, I told you I made a mistake for assuming something that wasn't true, and I hurt you in the process, but if you keep holding it against me it's going to end our relationship". If she keeps bringing it up after that, I'd end it. No tears or sulking would change my mind.

Right now you sound like you're supplicating to her needs out of guilt. Get over it and tell her to do the same, and in the future, if you want to break up with a girl, do it properly or don't do it at all.

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by prosemont

So ... what to do? Ask yourself these things: Are you ready to be in a relationship knowing of all the hard work it entails? Is this the "right" girl for that long arduous journey? Are your expectations too high for this relationship and this girl? Are you taking this relationship and this girl too seriously, relative to your life goals and your knowledge that relationships involve so much hard work?



Regarding the mechanics of your relationship: when you go to break up with a woman, you MUST be certain and END IT completely. For if you do not end it, you will have broken the ultimate faith and trust in that person that you will not abandon them. You have broken this girl's faith and trust by the botched breakup. You're going to have to deal with that; that issue ain't going away easily or for a long time my friend. That one will haunt this relationship, I guaran-fvcking-tee it.

You'll be fine. A change perspective might be in order. Good luck.

VERY VERY VERY TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Brain,

After reading the start bout your intention of going to her house to break up with her, I didnt need to read ANY more, I knew EXACTLY where this was going.

Dont make the mistake of keep on apologising. She ultimately wants this, in order to get back her own dignity. However this will only loose you respect with her. You have let her know you are sorry, tell her that is all you can do, what else does she expect of u? This is something she has to now get over, and you have to lay low for a while, follow Prosemonts advice, live your life for YOURSELF. SHE ULTIMATELY WILL live her own life for herself. This is something that is going to go ON AND ON AND ON AND ON AND ON, until she can finally forgive u. Until then, dont let yourself get caught up in her emotional mess.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

JBBRAIN,

I give you credit for posting your personal relationship problems in a public forum - it goes to show that different perspectives enlightens everyone and we all can learn from others. No shame in that! We learn from the positive and negative, and this makes us stronger in knowing what we want in the future.

 

[jakethasnake]

Originally posted by jbbrain
Oh no, I'm disappointed you're back (were you ever gone?)

Listen, black. Besides posting some good advice A LONG time ago for the newb virgins here to read, I never really appreciated your ideals relating to my circumstances. Everyone here who has posted a reply has not mentioned anything close to what you're spitting..which leads me to my next point..

what are you spitting anyways? You predicted I would be here posting posting what I am now? What am I posting genius?

Do you even know whats happening? So yeah, I almost broke up with my chick and now shes flipping out..did you predict that before smart ass?

Listen dog, its a free country, and you can really do whatever you want, but do all the reders here at sosuave a favour and keep your lame "I told you so's" to yourself when you are completely ignorant of the situation. It's like if anything goes wrong in jbbrain's relationships "I told you so"..weak.

You make me laugh, stop hijackign my thread. And oh, if you have something for me to read, make sure in the very least that the link works. thanks.

Oh, and in relation to your following thread (because I havent finished writing this masterpiece) I definitely agree about knowign what you want out of life and getting it: You're a prophet dude! I did want my girlfriend, and I still do, but taht doesnt mean were goign to have a conflict of expectations or whatnot and that these things cannot be overcome or at least understood in the context of open communication. I didnt know that at the beginning of the relationship that stuff would ever turn ou the way it did. Thats what makes it exciting. Now that there are certain things that have become issues for me, I intend to try my bst to remedy these things with her cooperation, and if it still doesnt jiove with me...well, believe me, I'm more than equipped to end things with her and be single again..

"So your next step is to decide whether to stay or go find what you truely want out of life"

Jesus Dr. Phil...

Bahahahaha.... bytch got SERVED.


That's why I can't stand presumptuous buffoons - they are way to arrogant. If PS weren't so arrogant I would probably have never gotten into an argument with him in the first place. I agree 1000% with everything you said in response, JB.



And I'm also very sorry to hear of the fallout in your relationship - I haven't had the chance to read the long posts, but if I can offer any insight I'll make sure to do so. In the meantime... I hope things work out for the best - no, I hope things work out the best for YOU.

 

[CyranoDeBergerac]

Here's what I'm getting...

You are frustrated that your girlfriend makes you do all the work, or at least doesn't actively contribute anything but her presence to the relationship, so you resolve to break up with her presuming the lack of (shall we call it...) stimulation you were feeling was mutual. When you try you break up though you find out that she is most assuredly interested, and things go from there. You think you have it resolved but she's still calling and crying and being passive agressive.

Before I continue, some personal history that might help...

I am practically married to the mother of my son right now. But before lil'DJ came about I went through this same thing. I came to a decision that, although our time together was brilliant and touching and that's all we ever wanted to do, that was also cutting into our productivity. Nothing was ever getting done. We were stagnating. I loathe stagnation. Anyway I decide to break up so that I can free my mind a little and focus more on developing me, so I give her the LJBF and she never saw it coming. There were tears and there were words. Lots of them. I told her that I still loved her (we'd been together and physically intimate for a long while, so don't go there PRL), but I thought it was best if we didn't see each other because the whole affair had turned counterproductive.

So in an effort to redefine our relationship as a friendly one, I took her out to a movie and a buffet (because variety is the spice of life. ). So we go to see this movie and she sits at the very end of the row several seats away from me. I'm not digging this so I tell her that just because we're not together doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to attack her or anything. She doesn't relent. A perfectly good movie thus soured, (though not ruined, I always go out to have a good time, no matter what) we go to the buffet and I'm trying to maintain pleasant conversation. I don't feel like beating around the bush so I confront her about her b1tchyness and she asks what I expected then procedes to rail into me about how much I hurt her.

Back to you for a second. Your girl is pretty much where mine was. There was a close, caring relationship where she thought was all smooth-sailing and then all of the sudden *WHAM!* I break up with her because I wasn't diggin a certain aspect of the relationship that she had no idea I wasn't digging. Now she doesn't know what went wrong and takes it as the deepest form of rejection. Sound right on so far? Then I shall continue... I came to the same conclusion you did about voicing what was potentially threatening our relationship, so props there. But because of that indiscretion on my part, now I had a girl who I still cared deeply for doing everything she could to hurt me as much as I hurt her. So what did I do?

I was not even about to let her throw a guilt trip on me and in essence make me her emotional slave. I felt for her and I hated to see her suffer, but I wasn't about to become a whipping boy, no sir. I have too much self-respect for that. I told her flat out that I was sorry for hitting her all at once with this and understand how she might feel shocked and betrayed. On the other hand, if we are going to go anywhere, this is how is has to be. Then I got up, left the tip and told her to march to the car because somehow I had lost my appetite. When we got to the car we had the same talk I'm sure you had with your gf. She cried, I sympathized and let her know I cared, explained my reasoning and remained firm in my convictions. (in your case what you need from a relationship)

Some time elapses and after that little drama she decides that she wants me in her life and if that means making certain concessions, so be it. We kept spending time together and eventually, after I had taken care of what I needed to and therefore our reason for being apart evaporated, we got back together.

Now, I won't lie to you and say that everything is going to be all peachy swell. It was hard and she had trust and abandonment issues with me for a while after that. Eventually, after delivering on my promises, showing her how much I cared and letting her know where I'm at and what problems I see coming, before they get there, we've been able to work it through and now, like I said we're practically married.

You're on the right track here, but what you need to do is make a stand and do it now. Call her on her sh1t. Let her know that you understand she's going through some pain, but you will not be taken advantage of, and if she wants you to be there tomorrow the attitudes got to go. Then leave.

She'll come around and eventually you two will be the stronger for it. A lot of guys said some good things here and I think you know how that goes. Incidentally, I also had the initiation problem with mine, but I solved that by getting her more involved in the conversation and asking her if she preferred to go do ABC or XYZ and then asking her why. (didn't someone suggest co-ed naked bungee jumping? perhaps a bit extreme, but it should liven things up. hehehe )

Anyway, that's my 2c. Best of luck in life and love brother, and let us know how this works for ya. Just remember, just because you're commited to a person, doesn't mean you should let them behave like they should be commited somewhere.

-CyranoDeBergerac

-CyranoDeBergerac

 

[jbbrain]

Holy shyt dude..
Cyrano, you are the man. I believe you went through almost EXACTLY what I'm goign through now..

Some questions though..The trust and abandonment issues you mentioned she is incurring right now..In your opinion, how will she deal with these? Can I expect her to become more resentful and perhaps put less in the relationship? Will this last until the day she realized I made a mistake?

I relaize all this will take some MORE effort on my part. That doesnt imply I will be supplicating or AFC..I know better than that.

Anyways, just some concerns I have that you could possibly help em with..

 

[CLOONEY]

Originally posted by jbbrain
Can I expect her to become more resentful and perhaps put less in the relationship?

You can absolutely expect that. No doubt. You are already seeing the start of it............

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Two pages of long posts and everyone missed the most important point??? This situation is classic!

JBBrain, your gf's emotional response was not a so-called hidden high IL! It was a crushed ego. You said yourself that she is the type who is used to guys doing everything for her. How often has she been dumped? I'm betting very rarely if at all.

She didn't want to get back with you. She merely didn't want to be dumped. I've seen this so often. Girls would rather get back with their BFs so that they can be the one to dump him later.

If your GF had a high IL, she wouldn't have treated you like crap on Valentines day. In fact, she would have been putting a lot of effort into the relationship before the breakup and you probably wouldn't have thought she was boring. What is your definition of attentive? She obviously wasn't attentive to your needs and interests because she bored you and didn't try to make the relationship interesting.

And when you "opened up to her" like she claims she needs, did she meet you with understanding? NO! She kept the focus on her needs, blamed you, and stayed angry with you. This doesn't sound like an interest in your needs or in the problem that caused you to attempt the breakup. In fact, she told you herself that she STILL isn't going to put any work into improving the relationship ---"she still isn't sure exactly about what she has to do now in order to keep me and thinks she'll never know if I'm happy or not" (so even why try?). You say she's done little things to make the relationship better? She should be doing big things. You are, and you weren't the one who was about to get broken up with. Why wasn't SHE the one trying to make a great Valentines day for you instead of vice versa?? Hmmmm.

What she is actually doing is setting you up for the break-up on HER terms. The kicker is that she's going to get you to believe that you deserve to be broken up with because of your horrible betrayal of trust. She's justifying her behaviour in her mind and yours with all of this ********. She'll treat you progressively worse ("he deserves it for treating me like this"), then she'll find someone else ("he betrayed me so I can do it to him"), THEN she'll break up with you ("I can't stay in a relationship where the trust has been eroded, especially when I've found someone else"), all justified in her mind.

You really screwed up by caving to her emotional reaction. Your change of plans was inconsistent. A major no-no when it comes to women. But inconsistency didn't tank the relationship. Her low IL did long before the drama. You are smarter than the average guy for recognizing that you need more than an unattentive low IL woman. Yet you were duped by her emotional response, which played to your ego and made you think that she had a high IL.

So salvage this situation by breaking it off for good like some of the others on this forum have said. Expect her to trip out even more but harden your heart. Do you really want someone who doesn't put much into the relationship, because she is used to being waited on hand and foot? A low interest level on top of that? And being ungrateful, self absorbed, and guilt tripping to boot? Pffft! Ditching this girl as fast as you can will be one of the best things you do for yourself.

Otherwise, stay in a relationship that WILL crash and burn and result in extreme pain for you because now YOUR IL has gone up and you WILL be rejected.

 

[MetalFortress]

Jbbrain, IMO you need to let her know that you're fed up with her crap. If it were me, I would bring it up, and say something such as "Look, I know I screwed up and I admitted it, but it's been ALMOST A MONTH and you are still holding it against me, and I'm not going to deal with it if you can't just be natural, because the more insecure you act, the more it wears on me, and if you can't accept what I have told you and instead continue to hold it against me, I'm ending it for good. I want to date you, not some image of yourself that your are projecting out just to please me, because no matter how convincing of an image it is it will have holes in it, and you can't fool yourself either."

 

[jbbrain]

response excel-

Originally posted by AlwaysExcel
Two pages of long posts and everyone missed the most important point??? This situation is classic!

-now, JDIA had brought up the possibility of low IL, and I had definitely seen it as a possibility..hmmm, let's see..

JBBrain, your gf's emotional response was not a so-called hidden high IL! It was a crushed ego. You said yourself that she is the type who is used to guys doing everything for her. How often has she been dumped? I'm betting very rarely if at all.

-I agree very much with what you said. No kidding there was SOME ego involved in it. I think it would take a very enlightened individidual to egt over something like getting dumped and not letting it feel as if youve been rejected. There DEFINITELY was EGO involved..but I can honestly tell yoiu with a straight face,
EGO wasnt everyhting tat had to do with it.


She didn't want to get back with you. She merely didn't want to be dumped. I've seen this so often. Girls would rather get back with their BFs so that they can be the one to dump him later.

_probbaly, I mean, I couldnt tell yiu from real world experience. But from the amoutn of times she has brought it up, obviously distraught and overwhelmed by such feelings ogf hurt and betrayal..man..if it was all just EGO, she could have ended it already!

If your GF had a high IL, she wouldn't have treated you like crap on Valentines day. In fact, she would have been putting a lot of effort into the relationship before the breakup and you probably wouldn't have thought she was boring. What is your definition of attentive? She obviously wasn't attentive to your needs and interests because she bored you and didn't try to make the relationship interesting.

-Valentines Day, wow...it turned out soooooo badly. I can tell you strauight up though she was still reeling from our talk. She was starting to resent me. I agree SHE could have been the one using her BIG imagination..but to tell you thruth, it was I who wanted to make it up for her. As Ive always mentioned, maybe it wasnt the subject of the breakup itself that was unfair, but it was the way i brought it on to her..i regretted it..I hadnt given my GF the benefit of the doubt..now, more about V-day..she DID buy me some gifts, and she overall DID make more effort on her part..like I said, I was happyu with the outcome. I truly do believe shes just IGNORANT and INNOCENT of any experience that has to do with our relationship. She's 20, and has never really had feelings for other guys. I agree in some way that she could have REALLY made it up for me on V day, but to be honest, i think she was confused as hell..she didnt really know what to think.

What she is actually doing is setting you up for the break-up on HER terms. The kicker is that she's going to get you to believe that you deserve to be broken up with because of your horrible betrayal of trust. She's justifying her behaviour in her mind and yours with all of this ********. She'll treat you progressively worse ("he deserves it for treating me like this"), then she'll find someone else ("he betrayed me so I can do it to him"), THEN she'll break up with you ("I can't stay in a relationship where the trust has been eroded, especially when I've found someone else"), all justified in her mind.


-Shes a pretty hnest gil. When she gets back from NJ, Im goign to havr a big heart to heart and really try to ddeduce whether this will be something she can get over. Shell be honest with me. And she also knows the minute she treats me any "less" shell eb getting the boot no matter what.


You really screwed up by caving to her emotional reaction. Your change of plans was inconsistent. A major no-no when it comes to women. But inconsistency didn't tank the relationship. Her low IL did long before the drama. You are smarter than the average guy for recognizing that you need more than an unattentive low IL woman. Yet you were duped by her emotional response, which played to your ego and made you think that she had a high IL.

Again, in ni ways am I trying to defind HER or MY EGO, but I really dont think its a low IL issue. I think its a "Im super inexperienced and have no idea whta the fukk to do issue"..but till be interesting to see..when I have that talk with her (no ultimatums included) I'm hoping ill be able to get to the bottom of whats been plaguing our relationship.

So salvage this situation by breaking it off for good like some of the others on this forum have said. Expect her to trip out even more but harden your heart. Do you really want someone who doesn't put much into the relationship, because she is used to being waited on hand and foot? A low interest level on top of that? And being ungrateful, self absorbed, and guilt tripping to boot? Pffft! Ditching this girl as fast as you can will be one of the best things you do for yourself.

Otherwise, stay in a relationship that WILL crash and burn and result in extreme pain for you because now YOUR IL has gone up and you WILL be rejected.


-The minute I expect rough behaviour on her part, is the minute I gurantee you I will say goodbye. this girl is worth being with, worth giving her the chance to open up a little and GIVE more, but like Newman said, i will never allow myself to be with someone whoiresents me.

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Two pages of long posts and everyone missed the most important point??? This situation is classic!

-now, JDIA had brought up the possibility of low IL, and I had definitely seen it as a possibility..hmmm, let's see..

====
AE: What I meant was that the most important point was her crushed ego was the source of all her “pain and hurt,” not her stellar IL. No one brought that up.
=====

JBBrain, your gf's emotional response was not a so-called hidden high IL! It was a crushed ego. You said yourself that she is the type who is used to guys doing everything for her. How often has she been dumped? I'm betting very rarely if at all.

-I agree very much with what you said. No kidding there was SOME ego involved in it. I think it would take a very enlightened individidual to egt over something like getting dumped and not letting it feel as if youve been rejected. There DEFINITELY was EGO involved..but I can honestly tell yoiu with a straight face,
EGO wasnt everyhting tat had to do with it.

=======
AE: HOW do you know that ego wasn’t everything that was involved???
======



She didn't want to get back with you. She merely didn't want to be dumped. I've seen this so often. Girls would rather get back with their BFs so that they can be the one to dump him later.

_probbaly, I mean, I couldnt tell yiu from real world experience. But from the amoutn of times she has brought it up, obviously distraught and overwhelmed by such feelings ogf hurt and betrayal..man..if it was all just EGO, she could have ended it already!

=========
AE: LOL! You underestimate a hurt ego but more importantly a hurt FEMALE ego when it comes to issues of romance and her attractiveness. Ever heard of that old saying about a woman scorned? Your problem is that you are not taking your own advice. You’re still assuming that she thinks like you. You think like a man. She does NOT. You’re going to have a “heart to heart” and “get to the bottom of this”?? Good luck. That got you nowhere fast last time you did this so why repeat the same mistake? The principle you need to memorize is that actions speak louder than words. With women this is HUGE because they speak ********. Despite what she says, her actions stink.

===



If your GF had a high IL, she wouldn't have treated you like crap on Valentines day. In fact, she would have been putting a lot of effort into the relationship before the breakup and you probably wouldn't have thought she was boring. What is your definition of attentive? She obviously wasn't attentive to your needs and interests because she bored you and didn't try to make the relationship interesting.

-Valentines Day, wow...it turned out soooooo badly. I can tell you strauight up though she was still reeling from our talk. She was starting to resent me. I agree SHE could have been the one using her BIG imagination..but to tell you thruth, it was I who wanted to make it up for her. As Ive always mentioned, maybe it wasnt the subject of the breakup itself that was unfair, but it was the way i brought it on to her..i regretted it..I hadnt given my GF the benefit of the doubt..now, more about V-day..she DID buy me some gifts, and she overall DID make more effort on her part..like I said, I was happyu with the outcome. I truly do believe shes just IGNORANT and INNOCENT of any experience that has to do with our relationship. She's 20, and has never really had feelings for other guys. I agree in some way that she could have REALLY made it up for me on V day, but to be honest, i think she was confused as hell..she didnt really know what to think.


======
AE:Another thing to remember is that women aren’t CONFUSED about the relationship. If they say this, they mean that they aren’t attracted to you anymore. It’s the men that are usually confused and you’re a good example of this. And stop blaming yourself! You had every right to break it off if she wasn’t putting the work into the relationship. Actions speak louder than words. I’ll bet that she would’ve been offended and reacted similarly if you talked to her about it.
======

What she is actually doing is setting you up for the break-up on HER terms. The kicker is that she's going to get you to believe that you deserve to be broken up with because of your horrible betrayal of trust. She's justifying her behaviour in her mind and yours with all of this ********. She'll treat you progressively worse ("he deserves it for treating me like this"), then she'll find someone else ("he betrayed me so I can do it to him"), THEN she'll break up with you ("I can't stay in a relationship where the trust has been eroded, especially when I've found someone else"), all justified in her mind.


-Shes a pretty hnest gil. When she gets back from NJ, Im goign to havr a big heart to heart and really try to ddeduce whether this will be something she can get over. Shell be honest with me. And she also knows the minute she treats me any "less" shell eb getting the boot no matter what.
======
AE:Actually, you’ve told her through your actions that she can treat you bad and you WON’T give her the boot because all she has to do is cry and blame you. And you’ll eat it up and stick around even though she’s treating you worse. You just reinforced bad behavior on her part. And what makes you think she’s honest? Actions or her ********?
=====

You really screwed up by caving to her emotional reaction. Your change of plans was inconsistent. A major no-no when it comes to women. But inconsistency didn't tank the relationship. Her low IL did long before the drama. You are smarter than the average guy for recognizing that you need more than an unattentive low IL woman. Yet you were duped by her emotional response, which played to your ego and made you think that she had a high IL.

Again, in ni ways am I trying to defind HER or MY EGO, but I really dont think its a low IL issue. I think its a "Im super inexperienced and have no idea whta the fukk to do issue"..but till be interesting to see..when I have that talk with her (no ultimatums included) I'm hoping ill be able to get to the bottom of whats been plaguing our relationship.

So salvage this situation by breaking it off for good like some of the others on this forum have said. Expect her to trip out even more but harden your heart. Do you really want someone who doesn't put much into the relationship, because she is used to being waited on hand and foot? A low interest level on top of that? And being ungrateful, self absorbed, and guilt tripping to boot? Pffft! Ditching this girl as fast as you can will be one of the best things you do for yourself.

Otherwise, stay in a relationship that WILL crash and burn and result in extreme pain for you because now YOUR IL has gone up and you WILL be rejected.


-The minute I expect rough behaviour on her part, is the minute I gurantee you I will say goodbye. this girl is worth being with, worth giving her the chance to open up a little and GIVE more, but like Newman said, i will never allow myself to be with someone whoiresents me.

=====
AE: Good luck with this if you insist on playing her game. It's funny though because you say that you'll never allow yourself to be with someone who resents you but in a paragraph above this you explained her V-day tantrum with the fact that she was "starting to resent me." You need to check your IL man.

 

[CyranoDeBergerac]

To AE:
It appears you and I have a few issues which seem to need some hammering out...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) This has been an ongoing relationship, erego IL has already been established...think she might have cooled off? Take the shock of her reaction and the utter devastation it caused as more proof that IL means nothing.[/quote]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) You say no one adressed the full involvement of the ego. What, did my mention of her 'taking this as the deepest form of rejection' or coldcoals earlier mention of 'the can of worms of her insecurities' not somehow register as 'ego-involvement'? More than that, in this situation its so inherently and conspicuously evident as to invoke the maxim about not stating the obvious. C'mon man, if you want to garner respect here there are better ways than opening a post scoffing at the other DJs for a percieved oversight.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) You seem hell-bent that she's going to break up with him to thrust his heart on a spickett. Now, if she were a vindictive woman I could see your cause for worry here, but there are two reasons I don't share that worry. The first is that if she were such a vindictive harpy, she would've outed herself a while ago and JB would have taken more stock of that when writing this post. Furthermore, he denies that being the case, so I'm just going to trust him at his word. Secondly, while no one's debating that she's doing a bit of screw turning here, if she were getting back with him specifically to be getting back at him and dump him on her own terms, wouldn't she be doing everything possible to win him over prior to the death knell? Instead she's pouting a bit, hardly the act of a malevolent succubus, eh?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4) HB didn't say she was confused. JB did. ******** does not apply, but apparently reading glasses do.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5) Lastly, he's not going to have another 'soul-sharing session' like he did last time. This time he's delivering an ultimatum. This hardly constitutes 'playing her game' and re-enforcing the idea that she can just whimper and he'll be right there catering to her bruised ego. JB's not a newb. He's not an AFC. He's got a good head on his shoulders. Through his posts and through his arguments you should be able to tell he's not your average chump asking a question. How 'bout a bit more respect?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To JB:
IL is a foregone conclusion. Let it go and don't even consider the lack of it as a possibility, because its not. Now that that's out of the way, there are two points I want to make to you.

The first is that you're only three weeks out in the thick of this. It took my girl three months to get over the better part of hers and only then after I had earned her trust again.

The second is that I didn't work any more than usual to gain that trust. You have to realize that the only way you're going to get through this is with time. She will be mad and resentful for a while, and you have to cut those outbursts off at the pass, but you have other things in life demanding your attention. I already make it a habit to create 'moments' for the two of us which are usually no more than just cuddling with her and telling her she's beautiful or asking how her day went. These actions rekindle that fire you spark inside of her and make it very hard for her to hate you.

My point is you don't need to go out of your way to work past this. No long heart-felt speeches or dramatic presentation will serve your purpose better than simply talking out your
problems and being there.

A quick note on talking out your problems though. This can be carried to an extreme. If you come flat out and say everything that's bothering you when it's bothering you, she'll see it as a continuous harping on her many failings and it'll come to the point where she's think you're impossible to please. Apply current heart-ache. Rinse. Repeat.

I realized this possibility and to circumvent it, I instituted a three week rule for myself. Anything major that bugs the bejeezus out of me has three weeks to die on its own before I squash it directly. This has avoided some major arguments when I've had a bad week and ensures that only the major/relationship altering stuff gets brought to light, thus preserving with her some sense of your affections. Remember, its just like training a dog; however they feel you've treated them, they will reciprocate. If you want them to feel loved and give genuine love back, stroke them ten times for every scold you give them.

Women are loving creatures despite all the crap that goes along with wooing them. All you need to do is show them your strength and demonstrate your affection and they will fall for you every time. Every time I've found a girl who I deem worth meeting both of those criteria with, I've had loving, lasting relationships. And the best part is... even when we've split up, these girls continue to hold me as the irrefutable standard by which they judge all future contenders for their affections. (Consequently, that last tidbit also happens to be a good part of why I'm such a ****y bastid. )

Best of luck in life and love as always...

Lastly, to everybody:
In my last post I didn't have the time to refine my closing thought. If you remember nothing else about relationships...

Feel free to give your warmth, your time, your resources, your affection, and your love to a woman, but hang on to your dignity. Your dignity is your strength, and your strength is what makes all the rest worth-while.

-CyranoDeBergerac

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Originally posted by CyranoDeBergerac
To AE:
It appears you and I have a few issues which seem to need some hammering out...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) This has been an ongoing relationship, erego IL has already been established...think she might have cooled off? Take the shock of her reaction and the utter devastation it caused as more proof that IL means nothing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) You say no one adressed the full involvement of the ego. What, did my mention of her 'taking this as the deepest form of rejection' or coldcoals earlier mention of 'the can of worms of her insecurities' not somehow register as 'ego-involvement'? More than that, in this situation its so inherently and conspicuously evident as to invoke the maxim about not stating the obvious. C'mon man, if you want to garner respect here there are better ways than opening a post scoffing at the other DJs for a percieved oversight.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======
AE: Yes we do have issues to hammer on! I’m the type of guy who likes to cut to the chase, address the fundamentals and state the obvious when it could simplify the situation. Yeah people hinted around about the ego. But no one pointed out that her reaction could be pure ego and not a high IL like JBBrain seems to think. Do I deserve a prize for pointing this out? No.

I wasn’t trying to disrespect anyone here. I was just amazed that no one voiced what seems to be the most important factor here. JBBrain’s whole theory about his relationship and his supposed “screw up” rests on his interpretation of her reaction. I’m questioning that interpretation and thus his entire approach to the situation. And I’m not disrespecting JBBrain even though my posts are brusque. I took care to avoid calling him names. THAT would be disrespect. He asked for advice and I’m giving it.

I don’t take the shock and devastation as proof of a high IL because of reasons I’ve already laid out in my previous posts. Actions speak louder than words. I’ve seen plenty of ongoing relationships with low Ils, so this doesn’t prove anything to me either. Just because a girl continues in the relationship does NOT mean that she has a high IL. Many girls I know have stayed for convenience, just like dudes do. People stay in relationships even though they’ve had multiple affairs on the side. Women with high ILs do not have affairs.

I think you are giving horrible advice when you say that the IL is a foregone conclusion. The interest level is the number one thing that guys in LTRs fail to pay attention to and the number one thing that comes back to bite them. It’s like after the commitment to stay long term happens, then IL is no longer an issue for most guys because “obviously” the girl is interested enough to commit. The thing is that IL rises and falls, and thus needs regular attention. Having problems in the relationship? I say check her IL.
============

3) You seem hell-bent that she's going to break up with him to thrust his heart on a spickett. Now, if she were a vindictive woman I could see your cause for worry here, but there are two reasons I don't share that worry. The first is that if she were such a vindictive harpy, she would've outed herself a while ago and JB would have taken more stock of that when writing this post. Furthermore, he denies that being the case, so I'm just going to trust him at his word. Secondly, while no one's debating that she's doing a bit of screw turning here, if she were getting back with him specifically to be getting back at him and dump him on her own terms, wouldn't she be doing everything possible to win him over prior to the death knell? Instead she's pouting a bit, hardly the act of a malevolent succubus, eh?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=====
AE: Nah, I don’t think women get back with guys so they can later break up, to be vindictive. They do it to assuage their egos and feel back in control. It’s not so much a matter of revenge. As far as your second point goes, she won him over with the crying and great make up sex. She doesn’t need to do anymore work to win him over so she switched to pout mode.
=======


4) HB didn't say she was confused. JB did. ******** does not apply, but apparently reading glasses do.

=====
AE: Right. I understood this. I was just reminding JBBrain that it is usually the men rather than the women that are confused about relationships. IF she said she was confused, this would be a sign of a low IL.
=====

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5) Lastly, he's not going to have another 'soul-sharing session' like he did last time. This time he's delivering an ultimatum. This hardly constitutes 'playing her game' and re-enforcing the idea that she can just whimper and he'll be right there catering to her bruised ego. JB's not a newb. He's not an AFC. He's got a good head on his shoulders. Through his posts and through his arguments you should be able to tell he's not your average chump asking a question. How 'bout a bit more respect?

====================
AE: Sounds to me like he’s going to do another soul sharing session! His own words: “Shes a pretty hnest gil. When she gets back from NJ, Im goign to havr a big heart to heart and really try to ddeduce whether this will be something she can get over.” AND “..when I have that talk with her (no ultimatums included) I'm hoping ill be able to get to the bottom of whats been plaguing our relationship.”

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To JB:
IL is a foregone conclusion. Let it go and don't even consider the lack of it as a possibility, because its not. Now that that's out of the way, there are two points I want to make to you.

 

[jbbrain]

to excel-

I did mention, ultimatums are not my style. What I meant by heart to heart talk is just to finally cut through all the bullshyt and find a medium that both us can enjoy. This directly enatilas finding out if for once and for all, she can deal with what I did. Like I said, shell be honest, and both us wont be pointing any fingers. MOREOVER-

Trsut me when I tell you that I'm NOT letting my own issues of the relationship go away. Thats what started this in the first place. My dissatisfaction. Please note again that it wasn't the fact that I thought my reasons for breaking it off that made me change madates..it was the way I had gone about with the procedure. I wasnt thinkign straight. I knew I still liked her, and yet I was prepared to just end without talkign to her about it beforehand? It didnt make sense the more I talked it over with her. I realized it wasnt fair, and it was a mistaek..in no ways am I apologizing for my wants and needs for a relationship. Some PPL are giving me flak because they think my reasons for breaking it off were void and unrelaistic..maybe even childish..I dont reallyt huink so, and I'm sticking with my reasoning.

So, thats it. this wekk will be the moment of truth as we say. Like Newman once agreed, our talk will either make or break this relationship. Shyt's goign to rise to the surface, and thats exactluy what I want to happen.

 

[AlwaysExcel]

Alright, do what you feel you need to do. I predict that you won't get a straight answer. What happens then?

Consider something though. If your girl would've been calm, cool, and unfazed when you tried to break it off YET still pointed out how unfair you were, would you have agreed and halted the break up?

It just seems to me that your GF's emotional reaction was the clincher for you. I believe that taking a girl's emotions at face value is very dangerous, especially when your interpretation of those emotions plays to your ego. "OMG, this girl is really broken up over ME!"

And of course my suspicions weren't formed in a void. You mentioned many red flags before and after the attempted break up that make me lean toward the negative interpretation. But we've been over all this so I won't keep harping.

 

[Player_Supreme]

Why is it that a supposed "man" has to air his dirty laundry in public and beg for solutiions to his problems?

I'm beginning to think that this site is what's holding alot of "men" from becomming men.

A man handles his business. when me makes mistakes he learns from them and goes on. Without drama how could you appreciate the good times.

To sit and wait all day for answeres to problems you should be handling yourself shows how well you run your life.

Jb and snake don't bother posting a reply I haven't taken you two off ignore. nor shall I. I didn't even read your originating post to know what the problem is jb. I told you in your original what would happen and it did.

You proceeded to get angry like a child and stamp your feet and act out.

This isn't a I told you so. Cause I already knew it was comming. This is a wake up call for you.

Grow up and handle your business like a man.

I would never come on to the internet whinning about a personal problem I'm having with a woman. Women do this kind of thing, not men. We handle problems...that's what we are designed to do. Anything else if feminine...such as this post.

I will not blast you jb. I will let life teach you what you need to learn. But here is a clue to your trouble.

Like I said in your original post...your the problem. Look inside yourself for the problem and the solution.

end of story.

 

[CyranoDeBergerac]

Originally posted by AlwaysExcel
Alright, do what you feel you need to do. I predict that you won't get a straight answer. What happens then?

Consider something though. If your girl would've been calm, cool, and unfazed when you tried to break it off YET still pointed out how unfair you were, would you have agreed and halted the break up?

It just seems to me that your GF's emotional reaction was the clincher for you. I believe that taking a girl's emotions at face value is very dangerous, especially when your interpretation of those emotions plays to your ego. "OMG, this girl is really broken up over ME!"

And of course my suspicions weren't formed in a void. You mentioned many red flags before and after the attempted break up that make me lean toward the negative interpretation. But we've been over all this so I won't keep harping.

You know, I didn't see that objection to ultimatum, so right about now, I'm in agreement with you on that point.

JB: No ultimatum? That's fine if you don't want to open up with, and if you want to give that heart to heart a go, far be it for me to counsel otherwise. But realize you're trying to solve this problem by being diplomatic, and one of my favorite summations of diplomacy is," The velvet glove is only as effective as the iron fist within it.' You cannot completely write it off as a possibility. If she persists in the harping, the guilt-tripping, or basically any other means of raking you over the coals for this, you have to let the hammer drop.

This is a question of strategy. Your end goal is to be with her and to have a well-adjusted relationship instead of the emotional tornado you're currently involved in. The way you want to achieve this goal is to talk her through it. Fine so far. Your tactic isto sit her down and have a nice long heart to heart. Here's where we seem to diverge on the possibility of an ultimatum, so let's play these through and see where we end up. Lets say you talk to her and she keeps behaving as she is now. Keep in mind this is from personal experience, because I've done it both ways...

Situation One

You let her get away with it:
Short Run:
You are continually frustrated, apologetic and empathetic without limit. You hurt and you show it. You think that it was the heavy hand that brought you to this point and because of an innate fear of hurting her more and thus losing the relationship entirely you avoid using a heavy hand again.

She has no reason to change her behavior and quit wallowing in her self-doubt, so she continues to behave like this absent any compelling reason to act otherwise. Those emotions which originally fuel these little dramatic scenes pain, rejection, betrayal, hatred for making her feel this way, being indulged, nurtured and allowed to fester.

Long Run:
This starts becoming a distraction you. You're raking yourself over the coals for setting this ball in motion, and since she seems unwilling or unable to get past this, you come to the conclusion that you can't keep doing this to yourself and you break up, thus failing to meet your main objective.

For her part, those feelings which have been allowed to fester now form a cancer in the heart of your relationship. At this point you are the guy who hurt her and her constant reflection on the fact does nothing but allow her insecurities to force themselves deeper and more painfully into her psyche. Furthermore, through your talks you reveal yourself as a glutton for punishment and thus divoid of that inner strength which originally attracted her to you. Which means, absent any compelling reason otherwise, her IL drops to below the point of no return, she wakes up one day and realizes she doesn't love you anymore and/or this relationship is too toxic to continue.

End Result:
Either way, both of you end up broken, hurting, and apart.

Situation Two

You call her on it:
Short Run: You're walking away from the table where you've just told her that although you love her deeply, you can't allow things to continue as they have. You hurt. She hurts. But you've come to the conclusion tht its better for the both of you to have no relationship than to have a toxic one. So you put one foot out the door realizing that this is a toxic chain of events which can only lead to heart-break later on. You've set the wheels in motion to move on with your life no matter what she chooses, and the healing process has begun.

But something else is going on inside of her. She saw that you're almost to the point of moving on so she has two options. She can continue to vent her frustrations, focus on her pain and lose you forever. Or she can try to move on together hand in hand with you. (as long as you're indulging her pain, she has no compelling reason to move on, btw.) So, deciding that she loves you more than she hates you and she would rather have you by her side than gone forever, she acquiesces.

Long Run:
If she chose to focus on her pain at the risk of losing you, its probably because she didn't think you'd leave if put to it. You did leave however and during that time shen realized that the pain of not having you there was greater than the pain that you inadvertantly caused... see next...

She is now on your terms and as such has quit her behavior, and while the rejection issue hasn't completely subsided, its led the both of you to a better understanding and empathy towards the other. (Make no mistake, she's being completely selfish when she's raking you over the coals.) Since she hasn't been allowed to focus on her own hurt feelings having redirected her energies to making this work with you, those feelings subside with time and healing has taken place. Now the both of you are stronger and more committed for having gone through this experience.

End result
Either way you hurt for a little while, but your ultimate objective is maintained.

I repeat... Feel free to give your warmth, your time, your resources, your affection, and your love to a woman, but hang on to your dignity. Your dignity is your strength, and your strength is what makes all the rest worth-while.

You are not her whipping boy, her emotional tampon, or her pet. Eventually you're going to have to act like it and remind her of the fact. Talking is fine to a point, but eventually you're going to have to put your foot down if she continues on this path.

-CyranoDeBergerac

 

[CyranoDeBergerac]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
Why is it that a supposed "man" has to air his dirty laundry in public and beg for solutiions to his problems?

I'm beginning to think that this site is what's holding alot of "men" from becomming men.

A man handles his business. when me makes mistakes he learns from them and goes on. Without drama how could you appreciate the good times.

To sit and wait all day for answeres to problems you should be handling yourself shows how well you run your life.

Jb and snake don't bother posting a reply I haven't taken you two off ignore. nor shall I. I didn't even read your originating post to know what the problem is jb. I told you in your original what would happen and it did.

You proceeded to get angry like a child and stamp your feet and act out.

This isn't a I told you so. Cause I already knew it was comming. This is a wake up call for you.

Grow up and handle your business like a man.

I would never come on to the internet whinning about a personal problem I'm having with a woman. Women do this kind of thing, not men. We handle problems...that's what we are designed to do. Anything else if feminine...such as this post.

I will not blast you jb. I will let life teach you what you need to learn. But here is a clue to your trouble.

Like I said in your original post...your the problem. Look inside yourself for the problem and the solution.

end of story.

And yet you could deny that you've had problems outside of your scope? What's wrong with gaining the insight and perspective of certain advisors who have been down that road before? Its one thing to be a man and handle your business and ask for advice on the best way to go about doing so. Its another thing to whine and whimper and moan just for the sake of stirring empathy out of everyone else. JB is the former whereas you seem to be mistaking him for the latter. Perhaps you should learn to tell the difference.

-CyranoDeBergerac

 

[Player_Supreme]

Originally posted by CyranoDeBergerac
And yet you could deny that you've had problems outside of your scope? What's wrong with gaining the insight and perspective of certain advisors who have been down that road before? Its one thing to be a man and handle your business and ask for advice on the best way to go about doing so. Its another thing to whine and whimper and moan just for the sake of stirring empathy out of everyone else. JB is the former whereas you seem to be mistaking him for the latter. Perhaps you should learn to tell the difference.

-CyranoDeBergerac

1. Nice screen name. Too bad your not like the original.
2. Jb is whinning and begging. Look at how many times he posted in a row. That's desperate...maybe you should learn to read not only between the lines but reality.
3. The purpose of life is to learn from your mistakes and grow and handle energy. You gotta walk your own path in this life...nobody can do it for you...learn that kid and know it...for it's truth will make or break you one day.

4. Problems are opportunities to grow. It is life showing you a lesson that needs to be learned so you won't have to face it again.

5. Your also forgetting the basic tenet of being a man. If we as men did what women did whenever we had a problem...where would our world be? We certainly wouldn't have this wonderful civilization that we now have...think about it kid....take a long time to think and use your head.

What I'm talking about is something that you will learn with age. Wisdom!

It really does come with experience over years of time. I used to think as most of you fella's...know I see truth.