What do girls mean when they want men to 'work harder for their affection'?

[Aristippus]

Danger,

While this guy is waiting for her, pining over her, claiming he just wants to sleep with her, he's wasting his mental energy on this one instead of thinking about the 10 other women that are just as good or better than her that he could be having fun with.

 

[Aristippus]

Let's not mince words. He's nothing more than what the guys on here would call an "orbiter". And an orbiter that hasn't even slept with her. He's wasting his time but I guess he doesn't realize we're just telling him for his own good.

 

[sylvester the cat]

another dj who assumes too much. first you assume you know everything there is to know about this girl and our situation from a couple of posts and then you assume to know all there is to know about me.

no-one's orbiting. i merely made a thread observing how the path of least effort might better lead to attraction. that is all.

p.s. - this is also what i meant by 'meaningful connection'.

 

[sylvester the cat]

Sylvester,


Hypothetically, if you had a "meaningful connection" with a girl, but she still made you wait until she was done fvking a few hot guys. Would you still want a relationship with her?

of course not. i've been in that position and i walked away.

what i'm saying is we don't know if that is the case here.

and even if it was, i am not 'orbiting' or pursuing the girl anyway.

if she happens to make a move (which it looks like she will as each day she seems to find an excuse to be over my side of the room and for longer periods each time) then we'll take it from there.

 

[sylvester the cat]

So have you taken her out? Have you tried? How has she responded when you tried to get her out with you?

i asked her out. she put up resistance - saying she thought i'd moved on and found someone else, asked if she could think about it, said i didn't really know her, said at one point i wasn't attracted to her so what makes me think i am attracted to her now, blah, blah, blah...

it was at this point i decided to do a quick kino test to determine her real feelings underneath all the talk by telling her to give me her hand. again she gave resistance but i just firmly told her to give it to me which she did. i gently stroked her hand and eventually she started gently stroking it back whilst staring deep into my eyes.

still she decided she had to say no. later she emailed me to say she couldn't go out with me because she was scared that it would go wrong to which i replied there was only one way to find out...no response.

since then i've given her NC. dating other women etc. sure nothing might come out of it but it's fun for me to see where (if anywhere) this might go.

nowhere did i say i was pining for her. i do like her. she's a nice girl. once upon a time the (slightly more) afc in me would have tried to 'convince' her to go out with me but i know better now. i already know she's attracted to me. i don't have to. it's just a matter of time and patience.

and if not...so what?

 

[sylvester the cat]

No need to be defensive about this. In fact, I think you are defensive because you have difficulty admitting you may be wrong or have screwed up.

So she turned you down and you went NC and went after other poon. Nice work.

If she comes around (and she very well may), be aware that she was choosing other men before you, which is EXACTLY what I said to begin with that started all of this discussion.

The question then becomes, is she just sex to you? Or would you still wife her up? I know my answer, as do many others here. But I suspect yours is different, which is exactly why you are getting defensive.

lol. can you please point out where i am being defensive? if i am coming across defensive then this was not intentional. although i do admit i've screwed up many times with this situation.

please don't take my comment about marrying the girl seriously. it was largely made in jest. that is hardly a decision to make when i haven't even dated the girl. lol.

we do not know whether she was choosing other men before me. maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. at this stage we don't know. we can only assume.

to the question as to whether is she just sex to me? i don't know until i take her out.

i think here i must point out i am 15 years older than the girl. she is 24 and i am 39....perhaps puts this situation in better context.

 

[perseverance]

'Work harder for their affection'. That's something a dog owner would say about their pet when training it not to excrete on their Persian rug. No way Jose, I am working for nothing from a woman. Affection? The only thing I want from a woman is a regular blowie to keep the doctor away.

 

[sylvester the cat]

'Work harder for their affection'. That's something a dog owner would say about their pet when training it not to excrete on their Persian rug. No way Jose, I am working for nothing from a woman. Affection? The only thing I want from a woman is a regular blowie to keep the doctor away.

lol, well at your age i didn't have to do much work either. they kind of just fell into my lap..

when you get to my age (39) unfortunately you do have to do a little more work...lol

What is it with this damn forum that you can only post a certain amount of posts??? That's so dumb.

1) THIS GIRL IS NOT MAKING ME WAIT FOR SEX. SHE IS MAKING ME WAIT TO GO ON A DATE. SHE IS EMOTIONALLY INVESTED AND SHE KNOWS DAMN WELL IF WE GO OUT WE ARE HAVING SEX. SHE KNOWS MY HISTORY AND SHE NOW KNOWS SHE IS NOT THE BE-ALL OR END-ALL. SO IF SHE COMMITS TO A DATE SHE COULD GET HURT.

2) I AM NOT PURSUING THIS GIRL. AS IT IS THIS GIRL HAS NOW STARTED PURSUING ME.

3) I NEVER SAID OR TRIED TO IMPLY 39 WAS OLD. I AM FAR FROM OLD. I HAVE A BODY MEN HALF MY AGE WOULD DIE FOR AND LOOK TEN YEARS YOUNGER. HOWEVER, I HAVE NOTICED THAT GETTING A 24 YEAR OLD INTO BED IS MORE CHALLENGING AT 39 THAN IT WAS AT 24 OR EVEN 30 BECAUSE WHEREAS AT 24 I WAS JUST A BIT OF FUN, NOW I AM SOMEONE THAT THEY WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH...

4) THIS CASE IS FAR FROM CLOSED. IT HAS ONLY JUST GOT STARTED.

DANGER SAID:

"Nothing wrong with screwing up. It's only bad if you don't learn from it. You just come across as defensive. Again I'm not trying to attack or berate you. Believe it or not, I want to help you because I hate seeing guys getting played.

We do know she is *not* choosing you though. And trust me, she is getting sex somewhere.

This actually reminds me very much of a girl I had a thing for back when I was younger. She was 10 years my junior and she did the very same thing to me. When I tried to get her to go out, she would just reply with vague answers like "hmmmmmm" and that was it.

Well this went on for about a year and a half before I just tired of it. Come to find out, for half of that time she was "under the radar" fvking one of my co-workers. Then for the second half of that time, after he had dumped her, she was fvking some other guy that was in her circle of friends.

It was only at that point that she finally showed interest saying "hey, we were supposed to go xxxxx but that never happened.". At the time of course I never knew about the two guys she had chosen over me. So I went with it and dated her for two years before finally booting her @ss for the serious disrespect she insisted on throwing my way.

Long story short, if she isn't fvking you, she is fvking someone else. And you can bet if she is keeping the flirt on with you for this long, you are not the first choice and she is keeping you in reserve.

Now, is that really someone you want to have a relationship with? Or doesn't it make more sense to fvk and chuck?"

SYLVESTER SAYS:

That is indeed a scary picture you paint. And I have no doubt if she was able to flirt with me whilst having a bfriend then who else was she flirting with. Certainly something i have considered and probably why i havent jumped in as fast as i should have.

doesnt mean the same happens here as what happened with you. but it is a possibility.

Of course it makes sense to **** and chuck. all im interested is in her making the move. i'm not even interested in the ****.

DANGER SAID:

So you think she has been going six or more months without getting sex?

She would surely want you to believe so.

SYLVESTER SAYS:

She has been single since she left her bfriend and she is free to sleep with others. I didn't ask her out until 4 months after she left him.

At the end of the day, I asked her out, she said no. We haven't really spkoen since then so she is a free agent. She can sleep with who she likes. It is none of my business.

If she does make a move then I would ask her why the sudden change of heart and be concerned about her motives. but if she doesn't make a move, her sex life really is none of my business.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

What do girls mean when they want men to 'work harder for their affection'?

It means she perceives you as a Beta chump who still thinks he needs keep chasing his tail in order to merit the sexuality she'll spontaneously, urgently give to the right Alpha for whom there's no question about whether he's earned it.

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/


Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the shît out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

 

[perseverance]

lol, well at your age i didn't have to do much work either. they kind of just fell into my lap..

when you get to my age (39) unfortunately you do have to do a little more work...lol

You make 39 seem old, when in actual fact it is not old at all and I'm sure if you have the right mindset then you can land yourself women. There are men on here in their early 50's who are getting women or who are in long-term relationships with women, so you're talking nonsense and no I don't have women falling into my lap - I do attract women, for sure, but I'm more interested in making something of myself.

I do agree that you have to put the effort in the dating game to get some rewards, that's no different to earning money to afford the things you want in life, but you shouldn't have to slave away for peanuts and scraps, if you are doing that then you're selling yourself short.

 

[nismo-4]

Judge nismo on the case.

When I think 'work harder' I naturally assumed I should pursue the girl harder. Tell her how I feel, ask her out more, keep applying pressure. Needless to say this rarely, if ever, works.

You are very right. This is extremely annoying. Work harder means get more muscles and money.

Could 'working harder' then, mean working harder at displaying the characteristics desired by 'high value' women.

It's 2012. Even women that are HB 2's think they're high value, since that mindset of "I have a pu$$y and every guy wants it." Working harder, like I said above, it upgrading your body and bank account. Plastic surgery is on the rise for men for reasons like this.

E.g: Displaying patience and strength of character when she is playing hard to get. I mean how easy is it to get angry and frustrated and resort to 'calling her out' when a woman plays hard to get? It takes far more self-control to not react when a woman tries to frustrate you by playing hard to get.

When a woman plays hard to get, and I've covered this case in my sticky threads, you aren't high priority. She just wants an ego boost. When a woman plays hard to get with me, I just drop her completely. Calling her out won't do you any good because she's already rejected you. It's the same thing with a woman wanting to take it slow. Answer me this, if you were a muscular millionaire, would a woman want to play hard to get with you? Of course not. If she were, while she's playing hard to get, somebody else is actually getting said millionaire, while Ms. hardtoget is left on the sidelines crying.

Could this be what women mean when they say they want a man to 'work harder for their affections'? Not by demonstrating neediness by incessant attempts at getting into her pants, but by demonstrating coolness and presence under pressure even though inside there is a raging storm of emotions???

Coolness improves your desirability by a very small amount. The only thing you can do is spin more plates. Women's ego and prizability has gotten so overinflated these days because of the attention they get on Facebook and online.

What are your thoughts on this?

Don't pursue a woman who plays hard to get. If it's that hard to catch her in the first place, how hard is it gonna be to get a date and anything beyond?

Read betw- Thank you Sylvester, but your princess is in another castle.

Case closed.

 

[Skalioppe]

Oxford_comma - I tend to agree with some of your philosophy. Many women do need to be won over and it does require patience and perseverance - I've even been told this by female friends. They DELIBERATELY play games and play men against each other kind of like jousting. It's true courtship and they expect you to work for the prize. I agree that this whole NEXT-ing ego thing can backfire. Sometimes a guy might give up when really he was doing OK. Also, if women have options, losing one of them won't make them sweat much, however, conversely, sometimes there is no hope for some guys and they need don't realise they are in omega orbit. They need to be able to read the difference between sh1t tests and no hope. That comes from experience and sometimes good old guess work (they're women, emotional spastics that are often unfathomable).

 

[sylvester the cat]

So you think she has been going six or more months without getting sex?

She would surely want you to believe so.

Ah i can post again.

As i said above. In this moment in time she is free and single. I asked her out and she said no. She can sleep with whoever she wants. I don't understand your point?

My point is that in taking the path of least effort it is a win-win situation. I don't make a fool of myself by trying to win her over and at the same time it might build attraction. and if it doesn't...so what?

i've got nothing to lose.

I've been in a similar position to yours. i too started seeing a girl ten years my junior but with this one it was obvious she was getting it elsewhere too. but i accepted this. this was just a shag.

at one point i told her i didnt like the idea of her being with her bfriend and she said she left him. but by then i knew she was someone who wasn't worth my time so i ditched her shortly after.

 

[sylvester the cat]

It's a win situation for you when you fvk her. Until then, it's just mental masturbation and rationalizations.

I absolutely agree with the path of least effort. My point is that you are making a grave error if you assume she is not fvking other men over you.

It is a given she is getting laid by someone and she does not place enough value on you to stop fvking them. Now, should the man she is fuvking disappear, then 2nd choice (or 3rd, or 4th,....) can step up to the plate.

THAT is where you come in. And at this point it is a question of standards and self-esteem. Do you have what it takes to keep her as a fvkbuddy only? Or are you ok with wife-ing up a woman after she has given all of the other men a turn while actively making you wait?

That is my point. What kind of woman do you deserve?

Lol. I am not assuming she is not fvcking anyone. But neither am i assuming that she is. Seeing as she rejected my offer of a date that is none of my business.

I'm just trying to get on with my own life really not wonder who she is or isn't fvcking. lol. what does it matter who she is or isn't fvcking? i don't understand.

we haven't spoken a word in the office but every day now she is finding excuses to be over my side of the room whereas previously she never came anywhere near. today it was searching for a new headset in the junk box beside my desk or coming over to talk to my supervisor about something.

in truth, IF she approached me and made a move i would probably tell her that i'm not interested really. she's told me so many different things (she's said she doesn't see me that way, she only likes me as a friend, she does like me, she likes someone else) plus this not talking business that it seems more trouble than its worth.

 

[sylvester the cat]

You are being purposefully obtuse. You know exactly what I am saying.

What matters is whether you are her first choice or not. It doesn't matter if it's your business or not, it matters so you can make the proper judgements on dating a woman who decides she would rather fvk other men before you.

That is my whole point.

Bottom line.....

You are not the man she wants, she is choosing others before you. Therefore you should not commit to such a woman, they are only meant for fvking.

If you have indeed chosen to go that route then props to you. However you keep changing your story.

First you say this.....




Now you say this.....




You can backpedal all you want and try to change your story. But you are honestly only fooling yourself.

I asked her out, she said no. I have already made my judgement on the matter.

I admit I did say I was going to get the girl but this attitude is not a healthy one as it means i am still invested which means i lose.

We still don't KNOW that she is sleeping with other men. We can only ASSUME.

I just want to forget this girl and move on. Whether or not she was playing hard to get is now a moot point. I'm not interested.

 

[bcolon]

It means she perceives you as a Beta chump who still thinks he needs keep chasing his tail in order to merit the sexuality she'll spontaneously, urgently give to the right Alpha for whom there's no question about whether he's earned it.

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/


Iron Rule of Tomassi #3

Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.

When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to ƒuck you will find a way to ƒuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, ƒuck the shît out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to ƒuck will find a way to ƒuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who ƒucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.

If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.

Wow. Just wow. I copied and pasted this in my notepad in my iPhone. Jesus, was this worth a read over and over again. That's all I got out of this thread was this post.

Thank you...

 

[sylvester the cat]

I am sure you will reasses as you learn that women like having sex on a regular basis too.

Dude. I have no doubt she is sleeping with other men.

But as much as i can assume this, i still cannot know this until it has been confirmed from the girl and the girl alone and since i do not care to ask it must remain an assumption.

one thing i can say is, i think you have been seriously fvcked over by women and your view of them is somewhat jaded. the world in which you live sounds quite dark.

i have had my fair share of troubles with women but i remain blissfully (or ignorantly) optimistic.

 

[marmel75]

Although some girls who play hard to get might just view a man as a third option this is not always true. There are many factors to consider and it always depends on the girl.

I agree holding out for the girl who plays hard to get is a dangerous thing to do and it is always a good idea to keep your options open and to pursue other avenues (no pun intended).

However, the point of the thread still holds. When a girl plays hard to get in some cases she is often watching to see how you react. And let's face it, if a girl is worth pursuing, she will at some point in her life make herself a challenge.

Some guys don't like the challenge because they find it frustrating. I have to admit I like the challenge. And I quite admire the woman who is able to challenge me. There aren't many that can REALLY hold my interest.

There are times when a women might think of you a certain way before she has spent time with you, then realize you are a much better option than she initially thought once she has...

Things aren't always as cut and dry as we would like them...I don't advocate cutting bait the first time a girl gives resistance necessarily...I mean there are times when you should, but not allthe time...I would have to say I have similar views to brad80 in the whole confident persistence thing...

 

[Trump]

Dude. I have no doubt she is sleeping with other men.

But as much as i can assume this, i still cannot know this until it has been confirmed from the girl and the girl alone and since i do not care to ask it must remain an assumption.

one thing i can say is, i think you have been seriously fvcked over by women and your view of them is somewhat jaded. the world in which you live sounds quite dark.

i have had my fair share of troubles with women but i remain blissfully (or ignorantly) optimistic.

You may be right, unless she is there to confirm it, you have to assume she went 6 months without having sex with other guys.

By her actions, she is telling you it is ok for you go have sex with anybody you want, she doesn't care at all. She also doesn't care if you got married in those 6 months and had kids.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Dude. I have no doubt she is sleeping with other men.

But as much as i can assume this, i still cannot know this until it has been confirmed from the girl and the girl alone and since i do not care to ask it must remain an assumption.

Read this:

Gut Check

Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.