What am I doing wrong on the pickup?

VictorK

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backbreaker said:
it may seem that way but i assure you in the long run you will be better off.

if you are relying on your circle you are really limiting what you can get and the women you can have. not only that i mean once you break up and most relationships do break up, what's going to happen?

I never did get this. i liked to keep my personal life from my dating life and my dating life from my personal life. Only once i knew i was going to put a ring on my wife's finger did i really intermingle the 2. a few times i had associates tell me someone we knew was interested in me and wanted to know if i was interested in them and i woudl turn them down beucase i had plates already. i don't want to jeprodize what few friends i have over *****. not only that, say the girl is really cute/good looking and you jknow good and god damn well your friend has been having ihs eye on her for a while but has not had the nerve to buck up to her and she is asking about you, even though he has no real right to be you know good and damn well he's going to be pissy over that because " you took her from me". then you know when you start running your DJ **** on her and spinning plates or playing hard tog et you know who she is going to go crying to, that's right lol your "friend". and you know him being the beta guy he is, and beucase he wants that ass for himself he is going to side with her. it' sjust not wroth it. it's only worth it for guys who can't swim in the ocean.

it's only hard beucase it means you have to do some work. but in the end it will be worth it. your friend /personal life will be more stable and will not interfere with your relationship life.
thanks bb, its good to read this motivation from you because it can be frustrating at times

that being said, your early post talked about placing 'deeper hooks' into women before pulling the trigger. Could you give me some quick tips on what to do to place these 'deeper hooks'? Use more C&F? DHV more? Tease her more and push-pull?
 

Zarky

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OP, your problem is that you're worried about failures with 2 women. Hit on 200 women and then come back and ask.

That's like having 2 at-bats in the majors, striking out both times, and wondering "what you're doing wrong." You don't have enough at-bats to even assume there's anything wrong. Maybe you just got unlucky twice in a row.
 

Iceberg

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VictorK said:
thanks bb, its good to read this motivation from you because it can be frustrating at times

that being said, your early post talked about placing 'deeper hooks' into women before pulling the trigger. Could you give me some quick tips on what to do to place these 'deeper hooks'? Use more C&F? DHV more? Tease her more and push-pull?
Man, do you realize that you just rattled off a bunch of PUA terms as if that's the key to getting women?

If there are any "deeper hooks" to set, it's just talking to someone a little longer, building a bit more of a connection, so you seem more like two humans having a conversation and less like a guy trying to get a number.

With that said...your two examples are TWO examples. It's not like it's some godawful trend. I like to think of myself as 'good' with women...or at least I have my moments....but yeah, if i get two numbers, they both might turn out to be flakes as well. It's just how it goes. Just keep swinging, and dont worry about it.

Zarky said:
OP, your problem is that you're worried about failures with 2 women. Hit on 200 women and then come back and ask.

That's like having 2 at-bats in the majors, striking out both times, and wondering "what you're doing wrong." You don't have enough at-bats to even assume there's anything wrong. Maybe you just got unlucky twice in a row.
What he said.
 

VictorK

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@Zarky & Iceberg

My sample size is bigger then just 2 (I just posted those examples for sake of time) but I AGREE that more 'at bats' are required. My plan is to continue approaching and seeing what happens.

'Just keep swinging and don't worry about it'. I'm actually going to remember this line and repeat it to myself when I'm out there..thanks man
 

backbreaker

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man there were times.. **** when i got good at it, i would go out to say the local club or bar at night and go 0-6 0-7. just like iceburg said, **** even Jumpin Joe had slumps. 2 is not a trend it's a not good night. I'm not into the pua thing and i don't know the termonolgy i just know i talked to chicks and got cold sholders and got shot down. it is what it is.

then there would be times where i wouldn't even be trying to get women and i would end up with more than 1 number in one night. but the only way you can get the numbers to avg out for you is to keep stepping to the plate.
 

Jitterbug

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Yeah you gotta have really thick skin in this game.

I have a friend who looks like a male model (a 10 father and a 10 mother), is from a wealthy family (bastard has a hobby job, no need to work) and has natural game. Yet I went out with him a couple of weeks ago and chicks were shooting him down left right & center. Some were even too busy checking in on Facebook on their phones to notice him trying to talk to them.

And on a different night, a HB9 - to use a PUA term - would come out of the blue to flirt with him and offer herself on a plate. The lucky sob.

Some nights I go out, even fatties would turn their noses at me, and other nights, some cutie would buy me drinks and fight with their friends over who gets to have me.

Part of the fun, my friend.
 

Burroughs

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Jitterbug said:
Note: this applies to younger women. My targets are mostly university-aged students (undergrads and postgrads). 18 up to late 20s.

What has replaced dating is hanging out and hooking up.

There's also a lot less trust in this process in recent years.

Very accurate and shrewd comments jitterbug...girls are on drama overload from the dudes they actually know....if you are a stranger you better make a serious impression...I'm 26, the girls I hook up with are from my college years and music scene. For a short time my band was hot sh!t and girls flocked around...when we didn't get the big deal a lot of the girls vanished....coincidence :) But some of the girls still think it might happen even though I have a day job, so they sniff around once in a while.

Social circle is key..I play out 3 nights a week and can pull easily from the places I'm known....so make yourself known, chicks really are scared sh!tless to meet strangers as jitterbug said and stick to their friendly school/work circles...

break into one of the circles and you'll be set.

and by all means do cold approaches as well, just be confident and optimistic.
 

nismo-4

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Burroughs said:
Very accurate and shrewd comments jitterbut...I'm 26, the girls I hook up with are from my college years and music scene. For a short time my band was hot sh!t and girls flocked around...when we didn't get the big deal a lot of the girls vanished....coincidence :) But some of the girls still think it might happen even though I have a day job, so they sniff around once in a while.

Social circle is key..I play out 3 nights a week and can pull easily from the places I'm known....so make yourself known, chicks really are scared sh!tless to meet strangers as jitterbug said and stick to their friendly school/work circles...

break into one of the circle and you'll be set.
I'll speak from the music standpoint because I'm in it, and yes when girls see that you don't have that big break, they'll make a big break away from you.

I used to rap when I was in college and girls flocked to me. Also I had a tricked out car. Before then, girls really didn't take notice. I am a working man trying to come up, but we all know how desirable women think that is.
 

Burroughs

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nismo-4 said:
I'll speak from the music standpoint because I'm in it, and yes when girls see that you don't have that big break, they'll make a big break away from you.

I used to rap when I was in college and girls flocked to me. Also I had a tricked out car. Before then, girls really didn't take notice. I am a working man trying to come up, but we all know how desirable women think that is.
Yeah funny how that goes..You really learn how the world turns when you have been on both sides of the coin.

I was a biology major, a science guy I was in shape but girls didn't look at me twice till our band started getting publicity, then everyone paid attention. We played the frats and everybody wanted to be friends so they could be down with the 'entourage' when the money came. Everybody wants to swim in the pool but nobody wants to help you fvcking dig the hole.

It seems like everyone but especially women are looking for a way into the fast life....I don't know a single chick who DOESN'T watch the Kardashians and dream about living that lifestyle...so much of this is key in dating...women are looking for the man with the most $$$$ and they can smell him a mile away. Ch!cks ain't trying to hear lame pickup they are trying to step into a Porsche 911 or Bugatti even if they read Plath and went to fvcking Sarah Lawrence.
 

Greasy Pig

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I can't remember the last time I went on a true "meet you at 7 o'clock" date. I've replaced dating with hook ups and maybe a loosely organised meeting at a bar. I'm not saying dating is dead per se, but it's dead for me - at this stage.

And re flaking: I went out Friday and Saturday night and got two fake phone numbers and another chick told me to add her on Facebook, so I did and she rejected the request!! Ha ha, I've stuck out a lot in my life but the weekend just gone is a new record for blatant brush-offs.
But I'll be out casting my nets again this weekend. :-D
 

zekko

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Jitterbug said:
It makes you look like a loser, so yeah it's a bad idea. Besides, you always get fixed up with the unattractive / weirdo girls first - although the matchmaker often has a very different idea of how good-looking her girls are
I don't think women have a clue as to what an attractive woman looks like.

I'll often hear a girl say something like "So and so is beautiful".
And I'm like "WTF? She's a frigging wildebeest".
And she'll say "She has a beautiful face".
And I'm all "Umm, no she doesn't".

Maybe it's similar to how men don't always realize how some other guys can be attractive to women. Look at all the posts along the lines of "She rejected me and went off with some loser/AFC".
 

lifeislearning

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I don't know about dating being dead, but number close sure as hell is.

You are failing because guys like me show up right after you do. Don't sound like all the other chumps, really make an impression, and make damn sure she remembers you.

I used to blow my friends away because I would shoot to make out with girls in the first minute after I met them. Tell me that girl isn't gonna remember those balls
 

backbreaker

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Greasy Pig said:
I can't remember the last time I went on a true "meet you at 7 o'clock" date. I've replaced dating with hook ups and maybe a loosely organised meeting at a bar. I'm not saying dating is dead per se, but it's dead for me - at this stage.

And re flaking: I went out Friday and Saturday night and got two fake phone numbers and another chick told me to add her on Facebook, so I did and she rejected the request!! Ha ha, I've stuck out a lot in my life but the weekend just gone is a new record for blatant brush-offs.
But I'll be out casting my nets again this weekend. :-D
with my schedule being what it is, i have to be militant in how i manage my time. me doing lose meetings and hooking up at a bar i just don't have that time of time nor did i when i was single. if you want to see me i can do it Tuesday at 8 or i can do it Friday at 9 pick your choice.


and i mean think about it. your actions when you act like that, are showing her that you really aren't all that important of a person if you have all this ample time to wait around and hook up with her regardless of the vibe u use or how smooth your game is.

some things i try to explain but cant' because i'm not great with words, but.... i just get how people tick. always have. even if you are sitting at home on Saturday night jacking off, you will get much further with most women by showing you have **** to do and you can fit her in rather than being around whenever it is cool for her to hook up. you show youa re busy she is going to wonder what you are doing that is so imporitant. does he make a lot of money? is he successful? that's a hook.

in other words your actions hae to match your words. you can't be this smooth talking C and F DJ and she eats it up that you are this successful likeable guy and then when it comes time to set up a date you are like "okay when are you free". that just shot down your entire rap.

and i am not even saying that i never got any resistance but i really do have a life and i would just tell a woman point blank look i want to take you out but i am a busy man with **** to do and if want to see me it's going to be either this day at this time or this day at this time i don't have any more free time this week take it or leave it. 8 out of 10 times they will take it.


and i know 100% what you are thinking. "well she will just cancel and go out with another guy because she has options". wrong. a woman will never cancel a date with a man who she thinks really is a catch. if i c she has options but obviously none of them are catches otherwise she would be dating them. so the fact that she is single tells me regardless of what orbiters she has in her life, that they are just that. by coming in and showing you have a life and you have **** to do you subconsciously make you sound, at the very least enticing enough to give a test drive to.
 

Boilermaker

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Jitterbug said:
Yeah you gotta have really thick skin in this game.

...

And on a different night, a HB9 - to use a PUA term - would come out of the blue to flirt with him and offer herself on a plate. The lucky sob.

Some nights I go out, even fatties would turn their noses at me, and other nights, some cutie would buy me drinks and fight with their friends over who gets to have me.

Part of the fun, my friend.
^

now you are giving rock-solid advice, as a guy who goes out and actually do things.

I respect the "experimentalist" or the "field-guy" much more than people who sit at home and just type. No question about it, more power to the doer.

I am simply taking issue with unfounded claims on how women have changed, or how the game has taken a turn for the worse, how the old timers had it easier, and so forth...

In every era, there are guys like this who think times have changed for the worse. I don't doubt that people's perceptions have been evolving, of course, what is really not evolving?

Anything in the past has been changing, but that follows by definition, that's a truism.

But honestly, we don't need to explain the reasons behind flaking. It could be anything, and you really need a large data set (something like 200 sounds a good start like Zarky said) to make generalizations.

And what I see from guys like Zarky is, the more they date, the less general and authoritative they speak.

He offers statistically valid techniques and concepts, like "stay away from people who are paid to be nice to you" or " zone-defence, or fishing the ocean" is better than chasing a specific girl etc..

As long as there's a good amount of common sense, I have no reason to doubt anyone's views or be a jerk around here.

Merci beaucoup gentlemen.
 

zekko

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Jitterbug said:
It makes you look like a loser, so yeah it's a bad idea
I'm not going to disagree with you, Jitterbug, but I am going to do some thinking aloud and play devil's advocate:

Why should asking a friend if they know any available women mark you as a loser? If you give it some thought, it doesn't sound any more desperate than asking 100 women off the street for their number, and hoping that a few will agree and not flake, does it? At least in the former case, there's some sort of recommendation involved.

Considering the difficulty so many guys on this forum have finding suitable women to date/hang with/hook up with/whatever, what's wrong with pursuing all possible avenues?

I know a lot of "game" seems to revolve around convincing the woman (and perhaps yourself) that you have numerous options. I guess this type of thing kind of kills that illusion. Except it really doesn't rule out that the possibility that you have other options, it just shows that you're checking around.

Anyway, isn't it a common theme here that you don't need a woman in your life to be successful? So why should you look like a loser if you admit you don't have one?
 

VictorK

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zekko said:
I'm not going to disagree with you, Jitterbug, but I am going to do some thinking aloud and play devil's advocate:

Why should asking a friend if they know any available women mark you as a loser? If you give it some thought, it doesn't sound any more desperate than asking 100 women off the street for their number, and hoping that a few will agree and not flake, does it? At least in the former case, there's some sort of recommendation involved.

Considering the difficulty so many guys on this forum have finding suitable women to date/hang with/hook up with/whatever, what's wrong with pursuing all possible avenues?

I know a lot of "game" seems to revolve around convincing the woman (and perhaps yourself) that you have numerous options. I guess this type of thing kind of kills that illusion. Except it really doesn't rule out that the possibility that you have other options, it just shows that you're checking around.

Anyway, isn't it a common theme here that you don't need a woman in your life to be successful? So why should you look like a loser if you admit you don't have one?
In my entire life I've only had a friend try to set me up with a girl once. Unfortunately our attraction wasn't mutual, and I told him thanks for trying.

If a friend tried to introduce me to people, I wouldn't turn it down (always looking to expand my social circle) however I have come to accept my situation and that I can only rely on myself when it comes to dating - not depending on friends to help me meet women.
 

Zarky

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I avoid dating within my social circles, so that would preclude asking a friend if he/she knows any single chicks. Dating friends of friends makes sh*t too complex, IMHO. But YMMV.
 

Jitterbug

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zekko, you're thinking with logic, not emotions. Culturally, in the West (where there's no longer a matchmaking / arrange marriage tradition), desirable men are known to always have interested women hovering around and don't need help finding them. If a man has to ask for help finding a woman for himself, it communicates that there's something wrong with him (although logically that might be false).

Btw there's a huge difference between asking a bro to hook you up, and asking a female friend. The former will not likely judge you (unless he's a secret hater) and will understand it the way you just elaborated. The latter can't help but think you're a loser. That's how they're wired.

There's a very important difference between cold approaching 100 random women and asking a friend to set you up with someone. The former is with strangers where failures don't affect anything you do in the future; the latter is within a social circle, where social proof is paramount. Unless you hit it off with the girl you're set up with straight away, the story will get out there that you had to ask someone to set you up with a date. That loser stink won't go away for a very long time, possibly never ever. You can kiss goodbye any chance you may have with girls from that social circle and their immediate friends.
 

zekko

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Interesting conversation.
So if someone sets you up it's okay, but if you ask then you have loser stink on you, possibly forever? Lol, that's a mighty fine line between normal person and outcast pariah.

Desireable men always have interested women hovering around them? Doesn't that fly in the face of all those posts saying a successful guy doesn't need to have a woman around? That successful men are not defined by whether or not they can get women?

Why should they cold approach then, if the women just flock to them? What about online dating, I know that also carries some "loser" stigma?

The implication is that if you don't have a bunch of interested women hovering around you, then you are not a desireable male. By extension, any cold approach or attempt to date is going to be seen as an admission that you have a vacancy in your life. Or to put it another way, that you have the "stink of loser" on you.

But you're probably right, Jitterbug, I'm looking at this logically instead of emotionally.
 

Jitterbug

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Logically none of it makes sense, and that's not what I'd think of a guy who asks some friend to set him up. I'm just explaining what young people (from the Blue Pill world) in a social circle would think (emotionally) about that situation.
 
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