What am I doing wrong on the pickup?

[VictorK]

Gentlemen,

I've recently recovered from a broken engagement/LTR and have re-entered the dating scene.

I have approached a few women in social settings however I seem to be hitting a road block and could use some suggestions and advice on how to overcome this. The basic problem is, I seem to be able to # close fairly quickly, however I always hit a road block in setting up the first date.

Example 1

Met a woman in a social setting, teased her, got her # and left the conversation after 5/7 minutes. We exchanged 3/4 texts and I tried to continue CF over the texts. When I called her to setup a date, she said she was out shopping with her friends and would call me the next day. She never called.


Example 2

Went out to a club for a birthday party. Saw a girl sitting down and approached her with an opinion opener. Talked to her for 10 minutes or so then number closed. We exchanged a few texts and agreed to meet up. We then started playing phone tag when trying to setup the date. Currently she hasn't responded to my voicemail.

So it seems I can number close but I just can't successfully setup the first date. Am I not building enough attraction before number closing? Are these girls getting buyers remorse once giving me their number? Any advice would be appreciate.


Thanks,

 

[PDubb75]

Switch it up a bit, try to make the first date plans at the same time you get her number. Something like this (keep in mind I'm really dumbing this down, may not happen like this, obviously):

You: They opened this new Mexican restaurant on Main St. Have you heard anything about it?
Her: Yeah! I heard it was really good.
You: I was hoping to get there this weekend at some point. Let's go for dinner on Saturday. What's your number?

It could be a ton of reasons why it hasn't worked the way you have tried. Could simply be bad luck and these were just flakes. But try a method like this and see if it helps.

 

[Jitterbug]

You're thinking "first date". That's where you go wrong.

I'm assuming you're going after girls from 18~around your age. That's the same crowd I'm (and most guys here) going for.

For those girls, Dating Is Dead. Get those 3 words in your head. They are terrified of committing to an one-on-one date with a man they have not known for long, even if there is attraction.

What you need to think is "hanging out". You go to some exciting social event, and you invite them to come along. No expectation, no pressure.

 

[VictorK]

Appreciate the perspective...

The age group of women I am targeting is 24-30.

I'm going to try thinking hanging out now and change my persepctive. As well I will try setting up the hanging out at the time of the number close. I like these ideas and am willing to try anything that will help me improve

Thanks

 

[Lexington]

As posted by Jitterbug, flaking is just part of the game today. You have to understand that a lot of college to late 20s chicks are in their primes. They're being offered d*ck from every direction. They're going to flake.

It's just like you're going to have to flake on a chick or two when you're spinning a lot of plates. The important thing is that you have to do lots of approaches and don't get caught any particular broad.

 

[backbreaker]

You're thinking "first date". That's where you go wrong.

I'm assuming you're going after girls from 18~around your age. That's the same crowd I'm (and most guys here) going for.

For those girls, Dating Is Dead. Get those 3 words in your head. They are terrified of committing to an one-on-one date with a man they have not known for long, even if there is attraction.

What you need to think is "hanging out". You go to some exciting social event, and you invite them to come along. No expectation, no pressure.

while there is some truth to this, in the sense that dating now is not dating 10 years ago, i can't agree with it in it's whole. from my experience, a woman who wants you will go on covert ops metal gear solid type missions to see you if she is interested.


Look I'm not going to tell you what you are or not doing wrong beucase i was not there, i can only go by what i see here.

think of it like this. do you like to fish? I grew up fishing though i have not been in a while.. humm that sounds like fun. anyway, growing up in Arkansas you basically had crappie, bass, catfish and trout.

i remember the first time i went fishing my cousin, i think he's my cousin lol, woke me up and took me to the river we were sitting there and i am waitng and i have my line out and i felt something tug on the pole and my ecxited butt, i yank it in and low and behold i caught a fish! it was the smallest crappie known to man lol but dammit i caught it. i was happy. crappie isn't that big if you aren't familiar with fish though it is quite tasty. crappie and french fries is a damn good dinner.

anyway, i'm pumped about fishing now, so about 2 weeks later my cousin asks if i want to go to the Arkansas river with him to go fishing. so i get up and i go with him and we do this whole thing again, and we are out there and this time i felt something YANK my pole, not tug. so i instantly yanked it in, and i saw enough of it to know this was a big motherfvcking fish, i am pretty sure it was a bass. anyway, i quickly pulled it in and the fish got off the hook and swam away with my bait at that.

my cousin laughed at me and told me silly willy, with big fish, you got to let fish sink into the hook and then you have to work it in, you can't just pull a big fish in like you pull a crappie in, you got to take your time with it and slowly reel it in to get the bigger fish.


and that my friend, is your problem here. you aren't setting the hook deep enough, and you are pulling too hard and when you pull the line snaps.

the hotter the woman (the bigger the fish), the more options she has, the more describable she is, the deeper the hook has to be set before you pull it in. you are letting these broads nibble on the bait and then you are yanking it in and they are running away. At least that is what i think is happening.

you have to excuse me I'm not the best with words never was, so i will use this example and this is what i consider to probably be my best pick up in my history of being single. i was at starbucks, actually barnes and noble, with no intention whatsoever of picking up a girl, i just wanted to check otu a book, and i usually willr ead the first 5-10 pages before i buy it so i am sitting there reading the book and this cute little red head comes up ti me and asks me what i am reading. i tell her and she asks me if i like it, i ask her does she? then i ask why. she takes a seat introduces herself. we talk for about 5 mintues. see, right here.. i knew i could ahve gotten her number right then she all but asked me to ask her for it by approaching me. but if i did, and she was very good looking.. a true red head, banging body, pretty face, i'm already thinking in my head "yes, yes hahahaha" i knew that when i called her back in 4 days i would not get the same respnose as i am getting now beucase i'm not there and the rush has worn off by then. so i tell her to follow me let's go to sonic i want a slush. she more than willingly comes with me we sit out there and talk for about 20 minutes or so. I'm touching her, she's touching me. then i say get in the car and come with me, she says i don't know you lol i say so? she gets in the car, she asks where we are going and i say it's a surprise you will see but i assure you you have nothing to worry about.. i take her down town we go tot he river and walk on the river and keep talking. by now my toughe is half way down her throat, she even hints that she doesn't have to go to school tomorrow until the afternoon (she can spend the night) but i had **** to do so i cut it short, but by then there was no doubt in my mind the hook was set. i called her 2 days later and she said she was sitting by the phone hoping i would call and every time the phone ring she would get excited. I rmemeber i told her i wanted to take her to the zoo with me.. i'm a zoo fanatic and the local zoo had just gotten some new lions or something like that and i wanted to see them and she told me she had plans but would be more than happy to reschedule them to come with me". that's what i am talking about right there son.

now, she turned to be a pill popping non dressing dressing bat**** crazy bum but i will be damned if that hook was not set deep as hel. i could have called her a month later and she would have picked up happily. 4

I mean, come on man you are sitting chatting these hb 8's and **** up, you are like the 4th one this week, you run through your 5-7 minute bit she isn't repulsed so she gives you her number. **** my wife gets hit on by 4 guys a week with me there lol

you have to let go of this idea of chemisty and pick up idea that.. you are a product. you are selling yourself. you have to sale you, your package everything you bring to the point where you can call her in 2 -3 days and she says "damn, yes i want to buy that motherfvcker, hell yes i want to go out with him" over all the 4-5 bums a week who try to pick her up.

and i mean, that event just so happened to happen on a day i did not have much to do so i had time to simmer that little red head up like i wanted but if you don't have that type of time, that's why i prefer to be bold. the bolder the better. the bolder you are the more likely she is to remember you. you will get rejected more but the ones who give you their number are very interested in you. i would rather flame out more and get diamonds who really do want to see me than to not flame out as much but get a bunch of half interested women.

I'm not saying you shoudl do exactly what i did, but you have to get out there and experiment. set that damn hook man. give them that rush to make them want to call you again. only you can figure out how to do that. you aren't doing ti now. at least that's what i think

 

[Jitterbug]

bb, you just confirmed what I said. You didn't approach her with a "get number then set up first date" mentality. You went as far as you could (to making out). At that point, you've already gone past the "first date" stage.

While a highly interested woman would do a lot of sh1t just to get you to ask her out, said woman doesn't become so interested after a cold approach. Most of the time, the highly interested ones are in your social circle and have known you for a while. With a cold approach, unless you happen to look like the man of her dreams, most women - even if attracted - will remain non-committal for a while. You either need to go far (physically & sexually) on the first night / day you meet her, or you go for the "hang out" route.

You have been off the market for a while now. In the last few years, combat dating has gone crazy. Flaking is now out of control. It was very different in 2006-07 when I first discovered Game. Other people who are out on the field regularly have written about the same experience (e.g Roosh). Hell Roosh even said that making out is now not a guarantee against flakes anymore, you have to go for the same night lay. It's not quite so bad in my city yet, but it's getting there fast.

 

[zekko]

You have been off the market for a while now. In the last few years, combat dating has gone crazy. Flaking is now out of control. It was very different in 2006-07 when I first discovered Game. Other people who are out on the field regularly have written about the same experience (e.g Roosh). Hell Roosh even said that making out is now not a guarantee against flakes anymore, you have to go for the same night lay. It's not quite so bad in my city yet, but it's getting there fast.

It sounds like pickup is becoming a bigger pain in the@ss than it's worth, specifically cold approaching. It's a low percentage game to begin with, and it sounds like that percentage is dropping even lower.

I imagine this will be seen as a pretty beta idea, but what about the old "ask someone to fix you up/ask someone if they know any single women" approach? I suspect I know the answer, but how is that viewed here? Does it make you look desperate?

 

[Jitterbug]

It sounds like pickup is becoming a bigger pain in the@ss than it's worth, specifically cold approaching. It's a low percentage game to begin with, and it sounds like that percentage is dropping even lower.

It is, indeed. I mostly work social circle Game. Even when I cold approach a stranger, it is someone at a friend's event.

I imagine this will be seen as a pretty beta idea, but what about the old "ask someone to fix you up/ask someone if they know any single women" approach? I suspect I know the answer, but how is that viewed here? Does it make you look desperate?

It makes you look like a loser, so yeah it's a bad idea. Besides, you always get fixed up with the unattractive / weirdo girls first - although the matchmaker often has a very different idea of how good-looking her girls are.

You definitely must not ask. However, if you are an attractive guy and still single, there will be a matchmaker in your social circle who would approach you and try to set you up with someone. I've got set up like that twice, but the first girl is cute but too much of a feminist, and the second is fat (matchmaker thought I like curvy girls, so that must mean I'm okay with fat).

Better off hunting on your own.

 

[backbreaker]

bb, you just confirmed what I said. You didn't approach her with a "get number then set up first date" mentality. You went as far as you could (to making out). At that point, you've already gone past the "first date" stage.

While a highly interested woman would do a lot of sh1t just to get you to ask her out, said woman doesn't become so interested after a cold approach. Most of the time, the highly interested ones are in your social circle and have known you for a while. With a cold approach, unless you happen to look like the man of her dreams, most women - even if attracted - will remain non-committal for a while. You either need to go far (physically & sexually) on the first night / day you meet her, or you go for the "hang out" route.

You have been off the market for a while now. In the last few years, combat dating has gone crazy. Flaking is now out of control. It was very different in 2006-07 when I first discovered Game. Other people who are out on the field regularly have written about the same experience (e.g Roosh). Hell Roosh even said that making out is now not a guarantee against flakes anymore, you have to go for the same night lay. It's not quite so bad in my city yet, but it's getting there fast.

the players might be different, there might be different surroundings but the game has not changed whatsoever.

the only difference is now women beucase of the internet have more options. i'm not that far removed from the game and it's not like I'm sitting in my house 365 days a year on this forum i get out, i get hit on still.

but with that said we are pretty much saying the same thing. **** i was dealing with flakes back in 2004. i tried tog et 100 rejection nd out of the first 10 numbers i got at least half of them were fake. you adapt and overcome.

no one gets the **** straight out of the box and people expect to. it doesn't work like that. and when they don't get it they make excuses as to why it doesn't work. you just need to take it on the chin figure out what you are doing wrong and fix it.

 

[Jitterbug]

You get hit on, but you're not actually in the field doing the follow-up. Sorry mate, but unless you go all steps all the way to sex, you simply cannot understand how flaking has gone up to a new level. Girls showing interest in you is just the beginning. I'm in good shape and a sharp dresser, I get plenty of IOIs.

Yes flakes existed from way back, but right now it is an epidemic. I dealt with plenty of flakes in 06-07, but it was nowhere near current level. I didn't make this sh1t up. Plenty of guys currently active in the field will attest to that.

I agree that social networking (Facebook in particular) and smart phones have made this a lot worse though.

 

[Boilermaker]

For those girls, Dating Is Dead. Get those 3 words in your head. They are terrified of committing to an one-on-one date with a man they have not known for long, even if there is attraction.

^
Reading Nietzsche much lately?

Overly ambitious, over-generalized, not scientific, not rational.

OP: Shake off this sombre and unscientific advice. The reason why it didn't work out in your case is ....

Who the fvck knows?

There could be a million reasons as someone else has already said.

Does it matter?

No.

Persistence and Patience.

Persistence and Patience.

Those are the things you must make second-nature to yourself, not some baloney theory based on 3-4 girls some paranoid dude has hit on.

We have a tendency to "explain away" everything in this forum. Don't buy into that. Nobody knows sh!t for sure,

even in experimental (thus real) science.

Stay away from the "theorists" on this site, the guys who go out and do sh!t will give you the "experimentalist" view loaded with a good amount of common sense.

Good luck!

 

[Boilermaker]

You have been off the market for a while now. In the last few years, combat dating has gone crazy. Flaking is now out of control. It was very different in 2006-07 when I first discovered Game. Other people who are out on the field regularly have written about the same experience (e.g Roosh). Hell Roosh even said that making out is now not a guarantee against flakes anymore, you have to go for the same night lay. It's not quite so bad in my city yet, but it's getting there fast.

Is this guy a joke?

What kind of paranoid bull-crap this this?

WTF is combat dating? ... Flaking is out of control ?

And what is the reference? Umm, some dating guru said this, some "field expert" said that...

Blah blah blah...

There has never been a full-proof solution to flaking.

Do you not see that?

The entire mating mechanism, from the beginning of time and throughout all

species has always been a HIT and MISS event.

Have you not even watched a single documentary in your life ?

This guy is describing an imaginary invasion, with military jargon. :crackup:

if some stupid feminist were to do the corresponding thing for women,

we'd be laughing our asses about it.

Well, I for one am still doing that.

Delusional, or paranoid, I can't decide.

 

[Jitterbug]

I'm not sure who's the theorist here, you and bb who aren't actually active in the field?

I am an "experimentalist", so is this guy: http://flyfreshandyoung.wordpress.com/2011/10/04/dating-is-dead/

FFY is no KB theorist.

There are so many more, I don't have time to dig it up.

Sure, some girl somewhere may go out on an one on one date with you, a stranger, off a cold approach, but we're telling you, the vast majority will not. You can persist and persist, and eventually get "lucky" with a rare one, or you change your strategy and catch a whole lot more fish. Your choice.

 

[backbreaker]

^
Reading Nietzsche much lately?

Overly ambitious, over-generalized, not scientific, not rational.

OP: Shake off this sombre and unscientific advice. The reason why it didn't work out in your case is ....

Who the fvck knows?

There could be a million reasons as someone else has already said.

Does it matter?

No.

Persistence and Patience.

Persistence and Patience.

Those are the things you must make second-nature to yourself, not some baloney theory based on 3-4 girls some confused dude has hit on.

We have a tendency to "explain away" everything in this forum. Don't buy into that. Nobody knows sh!t for sure,

even in experimental (thus real) science.

Stay away from the "theorists" on this site, the guys who go out and do sh!t will give you the "experimentalist" common sense.

Good luck!

rotfl.

what was it that Nietzsche said.. was it god is dead, religion is dead? it was something along those lines. I actually go that joke.

i was pretty much going to say the samet hing. I know i can come off as somewhat abrasive at times and I do not mean to be, i have nothing against anyone here or jitterbug who i think is a very good poster. But I mean, how can I put this.

ask yourself this.. how is saying that dating right now is so much harder than it was 10 years ago... how is it any different than when you first came here and said your situation with X or Y girl is soooo unique that no no here can understand it and they don't understand your special situation.

it really isn't. you have just went to the hardware store and exchanged one convenient AFC mantra for another.


Look.. women need ****. they needed **** 2000 years ago. they needed **** 1000 years ago. thy needed **** 100 years ago. they needed **** 50years ago. they needed **** 10 years ago. they needed **** last week, they need it tomorrow. they will need it next year, they will need it next decade. when i am on my death bed, in the hospital bed next to me there will probably be a couple going at it beucase women will still need **** lol.


**** if anything it's easier. there was no fvcking face book or texting when i was in my early 20's you wanted to talk to someone you got their number and called them. I didn't have 4-5 fvcking buffers from actual physical interaction to help me out. there was no POF, there was no match.com (I don't think) yes while women have more options you can as a male take a more shotgun approach to approaching. so in reality if anything it's wash. **** last year we (my design company) built an interracial dating site, for nothing but black men to talk to white women. don't' you think that is some **** i could have used 10 years ago lol?

all i am trying to say is, women still want to get laid. i assure you right ow if i went out and had to get a date and get laid i could. i know how to talk to people, and to woman. i could give a flying fvck about getting rejected.

adapt, move forward. anything you want to do in life that is worth a **** you are going to have to learn through a lot of trail and error. it takes time, and real life field experience to hone your skills. I know i can go out and get a date tomorrow beucase i spent 4 years doing it pretty much every day. and when i started out i was fvcking pathetic. but i did not make excuses as to why i was getting laid. i didn't say it's because I'm black and women are white most of them, i didn't say it's because i am in the south even though i was, i didn't say it was beucase i wasn't thuggish enough for women even though i'm not, i didn't say it wasn't beucase i didn't like to club every night even though i don't, i didn't' use not a damn excuse that i could have used beucase at the end of the day none of it was going to get me closer to my goal of being able to fvck hot women on my terms when i want to.

combat dating? .

sounds like a bad ass tv show lol. like american gladatiors or something, lol that game on American gladiators where you get on those big things and you hit each other ****less for like a mintue. that's combat dating.

 

[Jitterbug]

Hey there was a time when you could meet some anonymous chick off MySpace and bang her. Many people from this very site can attest to that.

How's that strategy working out now?

The field changes.

 

[Boilermaker]

OK so I am supposed to take a guy who runs a self-proclaimed "nihilist" site,

claiming "Dating is Dead" seriously?


IT's not the literature or the words that count dude, you need real science.


Can you refer a REAL, PEER-REVIEWED ARTICLE

in the changing tendencies of young women in dating and flaking since what, 1980's ?

Or are you going to spend all day citing your favorite

dating guru's who sell 15$ e-books ?

 

[VictorK]

Interesting insight from all,

As I mentioned I was in an LTR for 4+ years so the infield may have certainly changed since the last time I was out there.

That being said, I'm in a situation where most of my friends have married off, and they don't seem to have the social circles that would lend itself to me meeting women through them.

The rest of my single friends do not seem to have any desire to invest time into meeting women and have minimal friends, so basically all I have is me, myself and my cold approaches.

I will admit, meeting women through social circles/friends through friends does seem ideal, but I don't see any opportunities at the moment.

 

[Jitterbug]

I'm not sure about academic peer-reviewed articles, but feel free to google the very phrase "dating is dead". You will find many mainstream media articles on the topic.

Note: this applies to younger women. My targets are mostly university-aged students (undergrads and postgrads). 18 up to late 20s.

What has replaced dating is hanging out and hooking up.

There's also a lot less trust in this process in recent years. Like I referenced earlier, we used to be able to meet up with chicks off frickin' Myspace and bang them. No chance in hell for that now. You gotta "hang out" first, they're very jittery with strangers.

Keep in mind that "dating" still exists AFTER hooking up, just not before. IOW, you have to bang her first, THEN you can date her.

This sh1t is common knowledge to everyone who's out there being active. Not just the PUAs, everyone active in the sexual market place knows about it. I find people who always ask for scientific proofs are the theorists sitting at home. Academics aren't always at the forefront of new discoveries in the mating game, you know. It is us the experimentalists who are out there doing the work, and our observations are good enough for us to go with. Feel free to sit back and wait, I'm sure a peer-reviewed journal will come your way in the next decade.


VictorK: you need to expand your social circle. Take up new hobbies (ones that have a mixed crowd), volunteer at community places, get to meet new people. You'll have to be patient at first, but after 3-6 months, it will pay dividends. I suggest: language courses, dancing, mixed sports, to name a few.

 

[backbreaker]

Interesting insight from all,

As I mentioned I was in an LTR for 4+ years so the infield may have certainly changed since the last time I was out there.

That being said, I'm in a situation where most of my friends have married off, and they don't seem to have the social circles that would lend itself to me meeting women through them.

The rest of my single friends do not seem to have any desire to invest time into meeting women and have minimal friends, so basically all I have is me, myself and my cold approaches.

I will admit, meeting women through social circles/friends through friends does seem ideal, but I don't see any opportunities at the moment.

it may seem that way but i assure you in the long run you will be better off.

if you are relying on your circle you are really limiting what you can get and the women you can have. not only that i mean once you break up and most relationships do break up, what's going to happen?

I never did get this. i liked to keep my personal life from my dating life and my dating life from my personal life. Only once i knew i was going to put a ring on my wife's finger did i really intermingle the 2. a few times i had associates tell me someone we knew was interested in me and wanted to know if i was interested in them and i woudl turn them down beucase i had plates already. i don't want to jeprodize what few friends i have over *****. not only that, say the girl is really cute/good looking and you jknow good and god damn well your friend has been having ihs eye on her for a while but has not had the nerve to buck up to her and she is asking about you, even though he has no real right to be you know good and damn well he's going to be pissy over that because " you took her from me". then you know when you start running your DJ **** on her and spinning plates or playing hard tog et you know who she is going to go crying to, that's right lol your "friend". and you know him being the beta guy he is, and beucase he wants that ass for himself he is going to side with her. it' sjust not wroth it. it's only worth it for guys who can't swim in the ocean.

and hell, even with me being married now, i didn't know any of my wife's friends until we started dating and even that i did not know them, lol every last guy i met knew about me beucase she had used every last one of them as a shoulder to cry on when i was out doing what i did and wouldn't commit and all of them didn't like me even though they didn't know me. and when she got me they hated me even more.

keep that **** away if at all possible. as biggie said it don't mix like 2 ****s with no *****. do not put your **** where you lay your head at.

it's only hard beucase it means you have to do some work. but in the end it will be worth it. your friend /personal life will be more stable and will not interfere with your relationship life.