We're all fake people

[Fender]

A slightly depressing epiphany for me...I've always had firm beliefs in the DJ way, but its time for us to embrace the truth.

All this self-help, mens improvement movement stuff...is it REALLY driving us forwards towards development as a person and the Nirvana of a better life?

Or is it merely a mask to cover up something much more deep and basic?

From MotU:

First of all, I don't care how much of a DJ that you think you are, when you are in a relationship with someone whom you are in love (or in infatuation) with, you WILL revert back to AFC status.

and

when you are in a relationship with someone that you have strong feelings for, all your insecurities will be brought to the surface. It doesn't matter how much you can fake it with girls that you don't give a shyt about... Once you're with someone that actually means something to you and to whom you have strong feelings, expect all your insecurities to surface. And you might be surprised to find out what those insecurities are.

It seems we haven't really cured or destroyed our problems at all. We've just covered them up and hope that no one will ever dig them back up and shove it right back into our faces. Those two quotes have truly hit home to me, and I'm sure many DJ's who've had LTR's would agree. Being with someone you love really does bring out the inner you- no mask can ever hide that.

PUA's can't stay in a marriage (or a LTR for that matter) if their life depended on it. Almost all of them are either playing so many "Games" that the relationship becomes a power struggle, or (more commonly), they revert back to their "AFC" selves

In my opinion, the community is GREAT at identifying and isolating problems, but it doesn't really have an effective way of dealing these problems.

Approach Anxiety- the fact that Mystery, Style and even Juggler (a PUA I highly respect) still have this problem worries me, especially since they've been doing this stuff for years and years. All they're doing is plowing through their anxiety, and not really fixing the anxiety itself. I wouldn't suppose a "Natural" would have approach anxiety- they'd just go for whichever chick they wanted.

Supplicating- Pook did a poll a while back where he asked whether DJ's would remain being a "nice guy" if they could get chicks even if they were nice. I seem to remember a very very high percentage of men said yes! So is it a really surprise to note that the PUA featured in "The Game"- Sweater- reverted back to an AFC post marriage and ended up being bullied by his wife and eventually getting divorced? Is it really a surprise that even our great MotU turned himself into an slobbering AFC 4 weeks into his relationship?

Even our greatly worshipped "Be a Man" slogan is merely a mask to cover up our insecurities and weaknesses. Many of us, if we were being honest, would rather let the woman lead the relationship. We would rather suck on the teat of our mothers than to be truly alone and independant. We would rather sit on the couch, watching Desperate Housewifes than go out there and "Fulfill our dreams" as Pook so persuasively urged us to.

Now don't get me wrong, I think approach anxiety, supplication and not being a man are all very evil sins. Its just that we have no proper way to deal with these problems. Almost everything we preach here involves putting on a mask of some sort to hide our inner demons. And we never truly deal with the REAL problems.

"The most destructive lies are not the ones we tell to others, its the ones we tell to ourselves."

Somewhere along the line, people started getting confused and muddled up- theres a difference between an affirmation, and a lie. Lies HURT your self esteem. Affirmations are meeant to boost your self esteem.

Telling yourself "I'm not scared" when your hands are all clammy form approach anxiety is clearly a lie. On the other hand, saying "I'm f*ckin' nervous now, but the fear is going away slowly...bit by bit, my confidence is seeping into to me..." Now THATS an affirmation. The phrase made famous by alchoholics anonymous:

"The first step to fixing the problem is acknowledging the problem."

Telling yourself "I'm the man" fifty times a day can only get you so far. Eventually, we'll have to fix that cancer within us. And sadly, I don't think the "community" has our answers. But luckily, we do. We just have to look.

 

[fopwood]

I agree 100%. DJing is for boys who want to fk around and play mind games. Its great for the initial chase and maintaing interest. It will get you sex and make you dominate women but what about the L word? Its no way to keep a loving relationship.

From my own experience and my friends who have had great relationships and got married are the decent nice guys.

The gentleman is the way to be. Who cares if a few b*tches f*ck you over on the way no need to go to their level, its only your pride that takes a little battering and they will still be *****es.

good luck all.

 

[Desdinova]

First of all, I don't care how much of a DJ that you think you are, when you are in a relationship with someone whom you are in love (or in infatuation) with, you WILL revert back to AFC status.

Not necessarily. Just because you have a woman in your life, it doesn't mean you'll quit being a man. If you're faking everything, the curtain will be pulled back, but if you're truly integrated the natural behaviour of being a confident man, there' no curtain to pull.

when you are in a relationship with someone that you have strong feelings for, all your insecurities will be brought to the surface. It doesn't matter how much you can fake it with girls that you don't give a shyt about... Once you're with someone that actually means something to you and to whom you have strong feelings, expect all your insecurities to surface. And you might be surprised to find out what those insecurities are.

This is why guys should work at fixing themselves up before diving into a LTR. Also, what's wrong with the woman knowing your insecurities? NOTHING. Her knowledge of these doesn't make you an AFC. It's your self-promotion of your insecurities that makes you an AFC.

Here's an example: would any women want to go out with you if you told them right off the hop that you're scared of the dark? They'd laugh at you! However, if you get into a LTR and your gf discovers that you're scared of the dark, she may love the feeling of being "useful" or "needed" in protecting you from the boogie man.

It's the men who thrive off their insecurities that have troubles with women. The ones who broadcast their insecurities and act them out to get attention will get looked at with disgust.

- Man brings flowers on first date because he needs acceptance from the woman.

- Dateless man says to woman "Nobody loves me" hoping she'll provide him love.

 

[Jerry Maguire]

Probably the best thread I've read here.

 

[Kidd]

I think you don't understand the point of it all. Being a DJ is not about covering up your insecurities and lying to yourself. It's about IDENTIFYING them and dealing with them. It's not about being fake.

Of course if you are making radical changes it will feel fake, because you're so used to doing things the old way. But people do change, and eventually the new habits become natural for them.

You used Pook as an example. Pook wrote that in order to change, you must first establish the change in your head, but once you do so, you must act on it and gain real life experience to actually make the change.

Of course if you tell yourself you're a player 50 times a day but you sit on your ass and never approach a chick, you will be lying to yourself.

That's what it comes down to, that in order to change, you must change your mindset and that feels very unnatural at first.

 

[TheTrader]

we are all fake people?

todays dj tip: speak for yourself

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I think you don't understand the point of it all. Being a DJ is not about covering up your insecurities and lying to yourself. It's about IDENTIFYING them and dealing with them. It's not about being fake. ....

This needed to be emphasized. To many DJ wannabes believe they can "fake the funk." They think that telling lies to get what they want is alright. Yeah, they may get their immediate fix but since they haven't dealt with the real issues, their lies catch up with them and knock them out of the box. It's the design of an AFC.

 

[penkitten]

[/b][/SIZE]

This needed to be emphasized. To many DJ wannabes believe they can "fake the funk." They think that telling lies to get what they want is alright. Yeah, they may get their immediate fix but since they haven't dealt with the real issues, their lies catch up with them and knock them out of the box. It's the design of an AFC.

and its what most people have done to them in the first place to bring them to this site.
how many times do we see posts containing "she lied, shes not that at all, blah blah"

 

[Jariel]

[/b][/SIZE]

This needed to be emphasized. To many DJ wannabes believe they can "fake the funk." They think that telling lies to get what they want is alright. Yeah, they may get their immediate fix but since they haven't dealt with the real issues, their lies catch up with them and knock them out of the box. It's the design of an AFC.

I agree, that point needs to be emphasized time and time again! And you're right, all this acting business may be good in the short term, but no one can keep it up.

and its what most people have done to them in the first place to bring them to this site. how many times do we see posts containing "she lied, shes not that at all, blah blah"

A DAMN good point! If we won't accept it from women, what makes you think they'll accept it from us?

First of all, I don't care how much of a DJ that you think you are, when you are in a relationship with someone whom you are in love (or in infatuation) with, you WILL revert back to AFC status.

Nope, not at all. I'm in a relationship and love my girlfriend, but I am confident, natural and I still know my role as the man in the relationship. The thing is, she respects me and she loves me as much as I love her (maybe more), whereas an AFC's version of love/infatuation is usually onesided with him as the pursuer whose affection and respect is not returned...which of course puts her on a pedestal and him in a supplicating role.

 

[AB500]

There are DJs who can emulate self-confidence and appear to embrace manliness and there are DJs who can actually address the flaws they have in their core personality and become the principles we are supposed to stand for so please don't speak for everyone when you say we are merely covering up and hiding our real colors, some of us are actually addressing the core issues that keep us back in life and fixing them.

Being a DJ is about eliminating your insecurities. I am currently in a LTR and while I've let up a little bit on stuff like c/f to add some substence to the relationship I'm not turning into a insecure AFC ***** because I have eliminated all of my insecurities.

 

[mastersF]

Alot of so called DJs focus too much on their technique and tactics, all the small lil games they play, in so doing, become something like a PUA. Well i'm not saying that these don't get you girls, they do! but in the long run, they are not good for long term relationships. Think back a few centuries, or perhaps a bit more. Cavemen didnt have to play games to get his women, he merely showed them that he was a man!

That being said, I think we should all remember that DJ is a lifestyle, not just a flowchart of actions in response to what a woman does.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

and its what most people have done to them in the first place to bring them to this site.
how many times do we see posts containing "she lied, shes not that at all, blah blah"

Absolutely! You'd think that it was a guy being bitter and trying to get revenge against all women by lying to them but it's not! These guys just want to fool a woman into liking him and if he's really lucky he might get laid.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

The difference between the truth and living a lie is in how you live your life REGARDLESS OF WHETHER PEOPLE SEE YOU ARE NOT!![/B]

That was beautiful man...

 

[mkk359]

Not necessarily. Just because you have a woman in your life, it doesn't mean you'll quit being a man. If you're faking everything, the curtain will be pulled back, but if you're truly integrated the natural behaviour of being a confident man, there' no curtain to pull.

This post by desdinova says it all.

 

[CompleteControl]

If you believe that, Fender, then I think you have missed the point.

My epiphany came years ago when I kept asking myself certain questions:

Why do women like jerks and not nice guys?

Why do women I am not interested in love me and why are women I desire not interested?

Why are people willing to give up everything for some people and not for others?

I spent a lot of time studying and practicing to learn how to manipulate others.

My conclusions and the secret to true power over others:

Be the best person you can be.

Never try to prove anything(that you are successful, smart, etc.) to other people. Whatever you are will be evident to them.

If people need to put you down, insult you or try to hurt you - don't get upset - it is their insecurity that drives their need to do so. Although you should let them know that you will not continue to associate with people who behave this way. A truly awesome wonderful person does not need external validation but also does not want to be around miserable people.

Take a genuine interest in others.


AFC behavior = fake, manipulative behavior (If I buy her stuff, compliment her, take her fancy places she will like me)

 

[Dimebag_Darrell]

hey man,
if being fake means resting my head on my pillow, listening to my Michael Jackson CD and remembering about my new advances, failiures and interactions with women and how the material in the community really has changed my options with women and ppl in general.

If fake means being thankful that at least this material has given me the training wheels to be socially intelligent, and in its essence create an original and genuine interest in people,

if fake means knowing deep in my mind that I could move to a far away town or city and not be bummed out about being out of my comfort zone and not being afraid to make to new friends,

if fake means knowing that I have the power to make my life great or at least tolerable, then I guess I'm TRUE....hey, 3 lefts make a right

 

[Fender]

Hey guys, thanks for your replies. They really brought me back up from a my pit of confusion and pessimism. (especially complete control's post!)

First of all, I believe me and Motu were generalising the DJ situation. Obviously, we're not ALL fake people, and many DJ's (such as jariel) can have LTR's without reverting back to their AFC selves. But seriously, how many truly natural, comfortable and REAL DJ's have you seen on this board? Do you guys not sense the level of...hiding we do around here?

Even if you THINK you're an aweseome, confident, kick-@ss DJ, many of us would crumble under real pressure or even when faced with true love. I myself fall into this category, as did MotU :

It's really amazing... in a span of less than four months, I went from the most confident person I know, back to AFC status.

Now obviously, this doesn't apply to ALL DJ's, but I believe it applies to so many of us that it makes a worthwhile generalisation nonetheless.

I think the main problem with DJ's is that we all have HIGH self esteem, and HIGH levels of confidence. But they are WEAK and not grounded securely.

What I mean is that we think highly of ourselves...but it doesn't take much to change that. The pillars to our high and mighty self confidence is insecure- made with shoddy material that will crumble at the slightest knock or touch.

I pretty much agree with everything you guys have said here- about improving yourself and being true. But how do we differentiate "self-improvement" from "hiding?"

To tell the truth, I think screaming "Be a Man!" when you're feeling indecisive is hiding. Or "Don't Supplicate!" when the bill arrives- thats hiding.

I could go on, but you guys get my point. 95% of the stuff we do around here is "hiding" instead of fixing or improving. The stuff we do isn't natural. The second our guards are down, or we become complacent, BHAM! Back to square one.

And the crazy thing is, we KNOW what we're doing is wrong/bad, but we keep on doing it! MotU KNEW being possessive was bad for his relationship, he consciously knew this. But it didn't stop him from controlling his GF!

Thats why I think its something much much deeper. If, at the core, you are not DJ, it doesn't really matter how many hours you spend in the field, or how many techniques you know. You WILL get found out eventually.

I can't read minds, so spare me if I'm wrong here. But would it be wrong to say that most of you guys, have a little voice at the back of your head, reminding you you're not as confident as you seem to be? Telling you that one day, you'll be "found out?"
Or that feeling in your stomach that this is all "wrong." Your not really "The Man," your just doing it cuz an internet guy told you to?

Meanwhile, you consciously snub out these comments, and proceed to scream "Be a Man!!!!"

Thats denial my friends. And that, is the mask that sosuave has created.

 

[Ironwill]

That's probaly the main problem , many people here try to simulate a real man instead of being one.

All that AFC and Dj thing is BULL****.
All this ''fake'' Don Juans try to creating nothing but a wall around them , which hides their weaknesses , their insecuritys , because they are afraid that people might not see them as something they want to be , a DJ.
Your GF will discover them ,deal with it and **** it , you don't have to be the perfect Dj who follows all the rules , that's nothing but a fantasy and the rules after they helped you to get her , come back to hunt you.

Instead of building a new personality around the old one , why not ****ing face WHO YOU ARE and what your weaknesses are.
When you tell yourself 1000 you're the man , then you lie to yourself and you know it deep down , but if you actually faced , ACCEPTED who you are , who you were and who you want to be , then your inner voice will strenghted you instead of weaken.

Seriosly , forget this site , everything you learned here , just forget it.
All you need to know is your goal in life and enjoy it , instead of wasting time trying to become someone you aren't.

I don't know how to became a man with true confidence , because when you have it , you just don't care about it anymore and forget it.

Because it's just that unimportant for you , while for someone who is fake , ths is everything.

 

[ImpatientFire]

I totally agree with this post

 

[lurker]

my motto is fake it till you get it. just because you in a relationship dosnt mean you should revert to afc mode.

and you wonder why women leave you guys. go on act afcish when you deep -ly in love and see where it gets you.