We need an equivalent of The Free Speech Union In The US, perhaps other nations

[BaronOfHair]

Home

Top Story | Click here to learn more about our campaign against the Premier League’s Stadium Stasi “The best money

freespeechunion.org

Currently, the only civic organization of any consequence on this subject which exists here in The US* is FIRE, and their approach remains a highly legalistic one

Greg Lukianoff: Saving the 'Culture of Free Speech'

The longtime head of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education announces a new name and expanded mission for FIRE.

reason.com

That won't diminish the power of cancel culture though, until a sizeable and vigorous portion of us start promoting "Free Speech Culture"** on a social level. As we kinda sorta discussed here

Why are curse words still censored

We're all adults here I'm tired of having to type like a preteen on a message board

www.sosuave.net

Every website(From SS, to Reddit, to YouTube)will continue be compelled by Big Tech into self-censorship, until and unless more everyday people advocate tirelessly for the virtues of free expression


*Post-Charlottesville, The ACLU has pretty much abandoned championing Free Speech




**"Free speech culture is a set of norms that support free thought and our ability to share our opinions. These are norms that see value in curiosity, dissent, devil’s advocacy, thought experimentation, and talking across lines of difference; where our first instinct in response to speech we dislike isn’t to find a way to censor it — or “cancel” the speaker — but to meet it with more speech. To defeat ideas we oppose with better ones. These are norms that can be advanced at all levels of society, from the average citizen to the largest corporation.

The idea is that we cannot reap the benefits of the First Amendment’s protection for free speech in a society where citizens are legally able to speak freely but few of them do so. A college can, for example, promise its students and faculty “the right to think the unthinkable, discuss the unmentionable, and challenge the unchallengeable.” But if the culture doesn’t support those values, what do they matter? As Judge Learned Hand put it: “Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.”

Source

Free speech culture, Elon Musk, and Twitter

In the neverending debate surrounding Twitter under Elon Musk, the distinction between free speech as a legal right and cultural value can get confused.

www.thefire.org

 

[BaronOfHair]

12:00-25:00ish

So long as we remain as heavily sensitized to words and language as we've been since the late 10s, our cultural climate will remain just as socially constricted as it is currently. That(Our being heavily sensitized)won't ease up, without more of us championing free speech in our day to day lives

 

[Bible_Belt]

The aclu was responsible for my blue city having to repeal an ordinance that was meant to stop anti abortion protestors from carrying signs on the public sidewalk. They send a nice letter first before they sue, explaining how you have no chance of winning and letting the city have a chance to change their ways.

The difficult part of championing free speech is that it is the most offensive people who really set the boundaries, like the Westboro Baptist Church nutballs and also the racial supremacy nutballs who are both really just lawsuit con artists.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

Oy Vey OP

 

[AureliusMaximus]

12:00-25:00ish

So long as we remain as heavily sensitized to words and language as we've been since the late 10s, our cultural climate will remain just as socially constricted as it is currently. That(Our being heavily sensitized)won't ease up, without more of us championing free speech in our day to day lives

After 7 seconds into that video with the "Gay Washington" there was no need to watch the video or take it serious, so I shut it down.

 

[BaronOfHair]

The difficult part of championing free speech is that it is the most offensive people who really set the boundaries, like the Westboro Baptist Church nutballs and also the racial supremacy nutballs who are both really just lawsuit con artists.

Offense is something taken, not given, and words ain't sticks nor stones, much less bullets or cruise missiles. We all have complete control over HOW much pain they cause us, if any, via our thoughts and beliefs about such things. We all have the power to look at low-lifes like The Westboro Baptist Church, and say to ourselves "What a bunch of ignorant, attention-wh-ring fu-ktards. Let's not reward them with a response" Vs What most of us moderns do, when we hear words which run contrary to the way we personally believe the world SHOULD work: Thinking to ourselves "It's awful, horrible, and unbearable that someone is uttering words I find to be heinous and distasteful. I SHOULD NOT have to ever hear words I find hurtful"

So no... Championing free speech is really quite simple. We just male this all APPEAR more byzantine than it really is, via the miracles of overthought and Concept Creep

 

[BaronOfHair]

After 7 seconds into that video with the "Gay Washington" there was no need to watch the video or take it serious, so I shut it down.
View attachment 12855

View attachment 12854

You have yet to get past DH1 on the disagreement hierarchy https://paulgraham.com/disagree.html , much less come anywhere close to refuting the central point of what's discussed in that video, or the subject of this thread:

The (far too often uninterrogated)assertion that words cause harm has undercut our cultural capacity for having a robust exchange of ideas

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You are allowed to speak freely. You can say whatever you want. You just have to deal with the consequences of your actions/speech.

If you expect to have no responsibility for your actions or speech that's never happening.

 

[BaronOfHair]

You are allowed to speak freely. You can say whatever you want. You just have to deal with the consequences of your actions/speech

Said all enemies of liberty throughout human history, from proponents of slavery who lynched anyone who dared to publicly decry the practice of holding human beings in captivity https://www.bpl.org/blogs/post/the-boston-mob-of-1835/ to the powers that be in Islamabad https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bla... Penal Code outlaws,fine to the death penalty , who decades ago crafted a rough draft of the go-to rationalization now invoked by the typical Western tenderass of today:

"You're free to say what you want, PROVIDED you don't say anything I and those who think just like me disagree with. Stop saying what we want to hear, and we'll do everything in our power to silence you, instead of engaging with the thoughts you've expressed"

Indirectly though, Back, you and I are in some form of agreement here: Folks are free to call for greater legal and social restrictions on speech, if they so choose. These same folks are then subject to the consequences of doing so.... Namely, being denounced as the Stalinsque knuckledraggers that they are, by the rest of us regular folks who just want to enjoy our lives

 

[Vanderdonck]

A union is just another institution, a group of people. I don't see how it would serve anything but itself.

 

[BaronOfHair]

A union is just another institution, a group of people. I don't see how it would serve anything but itself.

By promoting the aforementioned Free Speech culture (Namely: Promoting curiosity, dissent, devil’s advocacy, thought experimentation, talking across lines of difference, agreeing to disagree, etc etc. And vociferously denounce censorship and the unforgivably asinine excuses it's practicioners invoke for resorting to it)on a social level, in our day to day lives

The ACLU has degenerated into self-parody, and FIRE'S approach still remains primarily legalistic. We can't rely on them to champion the cause of free expression in our day to day lives. We need a US equivalent of The Free Speech Union for that

 

[Vending Machine Veteran]

The aclu was responsible for my blue city having to repeal an ordinance that was meant to stop anti abortion protestors from carrying signs on the public sidewalk. They send a nice letter first before they sue, explaining how you have no chance of winning and letting the city have a chance to change their ways.

The difficult part of championing free speech is that it is the most offensive people who really set the boundaries, like the Westboro Baptist Church nutballs and also the racial supremacy nutballs who are both really just lawsuit con artists.

Yep. Right-wing organizations are the only ones the media complains about. Conservative speech is hate speech, where as yours is just common sense lol

What about the porn degenerates that poison children's minds? The media has been strangely silent on that one.

What about the left-wing violence of a few years ago? BLM and antifa can burn down cities and be referred to as "mostly peaceful", while a boring, conservative rally against abortion is referred to as "extremist"

 

[BaronOfHair]

What about the porn degenerates that poison children's minds?

-Long before the internet, kids were swiping porn mags out of the recycling bin in front of the farmer's market. I was a child in The 90s, and we'd all seen lotsa porn by time we were in The 4th and 5th grades

-It's not the role of government to decide what media kids can consume. Those are personal choices

 

[RickTheToad]

Home

Top Story | Click here to learn more about our campaign against the Premier League’s Stadium Stasi “The best money

freespeechunion.org

Currently, the only civic organization of any consequence on this subject which exists here in The US* is FIRE, and their approach remains a highly legalistic one

Greg Lukianoff: Saving the 'Culture of Free Speech'

The longtime head of the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education announces a new name and expanded mission for FIRE.

reason.com

That won't diminish the power of cancel culture though, until a sizeable and vigorous portion of us start promoting "Free Speech Culture"** on a social level. As we kinda sorta discussed here

Why are curse words still censored

We're all adults here I'm tired of having to type like a preteen on a message board

www.sosuave.net

Every website(From SS, to Reddit, to YouTube)will continue be compelled by Big Tech into self-censorship, until and unless more everyday people advocate tirelessly for the virtues of free expression


*Post-Charlottesville, The ACLU has pretty much abandoned championing Free Speech




**"Free speech culture is a set of norms that support free thought and our ability to share our opinions. These are norms that see value in curiosity, dissent, devil’s advocacy, thought experimentation, and talking across lines of difference; where our first instinct in response to speech we dislike isn’t to find a way to censor it — or “cancel” the speaker — but to meet it with more speech. To defeat ideas we oppose with better ones. These are norms that can be advanced at all levels of society, from the average citizen to the largest corporation.

The idea is that we cannot reap the benefits of the First Amendment’s protection for free speech in a society where citizens are legally able to speak freely but few of them do so. A college can, for example, promise its students and faculty “the right to think the unthinkable, discuss the unmentionable, and challenge the unchallengeable.” But if the culture doesn’t support those values, what do they matter? As Judge Learned Hand put it: “Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it.”

Source

Free speech culture, Elon Musk, and Twitter

In the neverending debate surrounding Twitter under Elon Musk, the distinction between free speech as a legal right and cultural value can get confused.

www.thefire.org

Most other nations do not have free speech. The US, by far, gives the most rights in terms of free speech. It's the only country where free speech cannot be taken away by a congressional act.

Freedom of speech by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I remember, back in the 90's Ice-T released this track in regard to freedom of speech.

 

[Vending Machine Veteran]

-Long before the internet, kids were swiping porn mags out of the recycling bin in front of the farmer's market. I was a child in The 90s, and we'd all seen lotsa porn by time we were in The 4th and 5th grades

-It's not the role of government to decide what media kids can consume. Those are personal choices

You had to go out of your way to get it. And it was an adventure lol

Now kids have immediate access to porn on their phone. At a younger age than i ever saw a porn mag

Is it any wonder that studies show Gen Z having less interest in sex than any of their predecessors?

Their dopamine receptors are shot by the time they're an adult

The human brain hasn't evolved as fast as technology

 

[BaronOfHair]

Now kids have immediate access to porn on their phone. At a younger age than i ever saw a porn mag

Is it any wonder that studies show Gen Z having less interest in sex than any of their predecessors?

Their dopamine receptors are shot by the time they're an adult

They have a choice to NOT consume heavy amounts of porn. Propents of restricting speech, both legally and socially, act is we all have loaded Sig Sauers pressed to our skulls, and that we're being forced to consume content under pain of death

 

[Vending Machine Veteran]

They have a choice to NOT consume heavy amounts of porn. Propents of restricting speech, both legally and socially, act is we all have loaded Sig Sauers pressed to our skulls, and that we're being forced to consume content under pain of death

It's different with kids.

And you have these mega porn sites fighting the age verification laws, calling it a free speech issue

 

[BaronOfHair]

It's different with kids

Nope; This lines up with a chat we're having here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...thing-better-comes-along.282363/#post-3121867

It's the role of the supposed adults in the lives of kids to instill in them virtues like temperance and self-possession. Up to and including abstaining from porn

 

[Vending Machine Veteran]

Nope; This lines up with a chat we're having here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...thing-better-comes-along.282363/#post-3121867

It's the role of the supposed adults in the lives of kids to instill in them virtues like temperance and self-possession. Up to and including abstaining from porn

I used to be more libertarian, but i grew out of it, i reckon.

These days i think women and children should be shielded from negative pressures, as they don't have the wherewithal to understand the consequences

 

[BaronOfHair]

I used to be more libertarian, but i grew out of it, i reckon.

These days i think women and children should be shielded from negative pressures, as they don't have the wherewithal to understand the consequences

Purging the public AND private sphere of words and images that we ourselves find objectionable, then rationalizing such totalitarianism with:

"Well, it could be harmful to women and children, and it's up to me(An uberman, with a perfect sense of right and wrong)to protect those lesser than me from anything that could contaminate their fragile psyches". Where have we heard this sort of warped thinking before https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_book_burnings ?