"We" just hit mainstream media

[DanelMadr]

It's simple, just let a few things slide because they aren't really that big a deal, then things get bigger. The old "give them an inch and they'll take a mile". SEEMS like what a REASONABLE man should do...give in on some of the little things.

Once, I went out to the beer gardens at the county fair [hell I wasn't sure I wanted the one I had,much less 2 women],she thought I was looking for strange. Another time, we went to the Minnesota Vikings training camp...boys were young fans. Looking to watch the practices and get some autographs. Didn't seem to fit her idea of a family vacation.

The woman who made the vasectomy comment... hell, she's what most on this board would call a "quality woman". She's attractive, good mother and wife,intelligent,normally has a level head on her shoulders,etc. BUT they are all a bit crazy.

I was hoping for some deeper introspection than jealous wife who hates training camps

You can be a decent fellow or a gal but when you are full of unresolved pain, it tends to lash out in form of very dark comments. Since most pain can be associated with opposite gender...easily identifiable enemy to blame...you get plenty of dark out lashes as a man from various of women.

One think I learned...the more assertive and or guarded the girl is....the darker secret she hides.

 

[sodbuster]

What I'd watch for...if she doesn't like her dad,her family, or other women[few or no female friends]. 0 for 3 with her,she just hid it well....That, and I married my father. Studies have shown that we marry people like one of our parents...so we can try to fix unresolved issues from childhood. My dad was 6'2", 240lbs..former sarge in the army

 

[DanelMadr]

What I'd watch for...if she doesn't like her dad,her family, or other women[few or no female friends]. 0 for 3 with her,she just hid it well....That, and I married my father. Studies have shown that we marry people like one of our parents...so we can try to fix unresolved issues from childhood. My dad was 6'2", 240lbs..former sarge in the army

Oh my. Hope she at least did not look like the sarge

Yep, I heard the same reasoning for unconscious "choosing" partners. Good news we can break free from this phenomena once we realized it, forgive our parents and mainly ourselves.

Did your father recognized you as a (the) Man? Being tough one and all? Mine haven't as his had not. Fortunately I broke free of this, I hope and recognized myself I believe this to be the alpha and omega for most of us. Lack of approval from father figure. Counts for thousands years of "parenting".

It does not have to be that your dominant father putted you down or anything. Mine was more careful but still. No 'You are a coward.' But 'You should be more brave.' does not certainly help you either....sorta puts you down indirectly.

My sons will hear 'You da man.' frequently. No buts and ifs. If I will want to remind them of some shortcoming I will tell them my similar shortcomings, not point out theirs like I was perfect.

 

[Franky Four Fingers]

Long thread simplified. Men don't get married. Man wants kids then get married, assume responsibilities of BOTH kids and wife. Sorry it's a package deal if you want kids. Enjoy.

Best case scenario; Never get married, go over friends house and play with their kids, leave go home to your hot girlfriend.

Personally dogs are typically way more loyal, more than half the time way more loving than most kids (in this country anyway), over an 18 year lifespan cost maybe $1-2,000 to own instead of the typical $300,000-400,000 a typical kid does over 18 years (NOT including the CURRENT $50,000/year tuition). If your hot girlfriend digs you she'll dig your dog and she'll see there's no kid baggage where she has to play mommy to kids that are not genetically her own.

Don't get me wrong, I was great when I was a kid and I'm great with kids now. They love me because I have a childlike heart and spirit. I know I'd be a great father but I can honestly say I don't desire my own.

 

[sexysuave]

Originally posted by DanelMadr:

It does not have to be that your dominant father putted you down or anything. Mine was more careful but still. No 'You are a coward.' But 'You should be more brave.' does not certainly help you either....sorta puts you down indirectly.

My sons will hear 'You da man.' frequently. No buts and ifs. If I will want to remind them of some shortcoming I will tell them my similar shortcomings, not point out theirs like I was perfect.

Ha ha ha, I don’t agree with all the things you’ve said in this thread, but I agree that we need to tell our kids how great they are and that they “rock” and encourage them all the time. Too many parents focus on all the negatives and raise wimpy/insecure kids. I laughed because it reminded me of my childhood. My parents are both very smart and educated. My father always pushed me to be the best student in school and if I got even a B+ it was frowned upon and “let’s see how you messed up and what you can do to get better again” LOL! When I was awarded with any type of achievement awards at school or sports or work, most of my “congratulations” came from my mom. She’s always been very supportive and happy about my achievements while dad just sort of expected them and acted as it was supposed to happen anyway.

He would literally tell me “don’t spend too much time playing sports, that’s not for you, you’ll never excel at it, books and education, that’s for you!” LOL Oh man that used to piss me off so much because I loved sports. He also told me not to get in trouble and if anyone starts trouble to walk away lol. Oh, and my grandpa left grandma when she was pregnant with dad, so she raised him all on her own, he was the only kid she ever had. So I’m sure this is a big reason my dad was a bit lacking in some of fatherly advice and more serious than other parents.

Well, make a long story short, I “turned bad” at the winter break of my 7th grade lol. Started getting into fights immediately with anyone making any slightest jokes and even started seeking out fights and trouble. I had my mom coming to school to talk to the principal crying and telling them that I “used to be a good kid”. I grew up playing sports, played all sorts of sports through middle school and high school, was the second fastest guy in my high school in bay area, CA, set a record on my high school varsity basketball team for most points scored in a quarter (18), and get this.. My dad never came to even one of my games!! :crackup: True story lol, I kid you not, no clue why, but my dad never came to watch any of my sporting events. He’d pick me up when I was younger and didn’t drive, but he’d wait outside the gymnasium. But after I graduated high school, he started going to every one of my brothers games! (my brother was only a year younger so prior to that he was on the same team as me and dad didn’t watch lol).. So not sure if he realized we’re getting older, but he went to every one of my brothers basketball games in his senior year. I got into a lot of fights (verbal) with dad during high school years, and at some point, we were at such a big verbal fight that I walked up to him ready to beat the crap out of him. I had my fists clenched and my fists were shaking with fury. He realized what was going on and backed off and said “nevermind, just relax” and turned around and walked away.. Ever since then, he was a lot more careful about confronting me about stupid sh*t.

Especially once I moved out, my dad became a lot closer. And then I moved outta the state and I think our relationship got even better. We don’t talk often, but a couple of minutes on the phone every week or so, not too bad. And I fly out and visit them a few times a year and spend time with them. I think he realized how quickly the life passes and that he spent most of it being too stubborn and too much of a perfectionist and not just taking the time to chill out and enjoy life. But he is still not big on “congratulating” for anything. All my achievements for work, I would just love it for him to for once say “f*ck son!! Great fu*cking job, that’s awesome!!”.. I’ve moved up through management quite rapidly in my 20’s and recently was promoted again to a very high level in my company, EVERYONE that I know is telling me “wow man, great job, at your age, that’s a ridiculous accomplishment”. My dad? “good”… Me: “dad, at my age, a lot of people are surprised that they would give me that much responsibility”.. my dad: “well, they know you’re a smart guy and capable”… aahhhhhhhhh LOL are you kidding me.. commonnnn dadd!! I was literally shocked when I couldn’t get a rise out of him after delivering that news lol.. ah well lol

But that’s one thing I remind myself.. I’m a make sure to tell my son/kids “you da man!!” because I sure as hell didn’t hear that a whole lot... I even remember one of my dad’s buddies saying to me when I was in high school “ohh, I hear you’re good at basketball, maybe you’ll make a career out of it” and my dad answers (right there in front of me), “oh, he’s just ok, I’m sure he won’t’ make it too far, so he just has to study more” LOL.. I was like “ummm, you’ve never even been to a game”.. and he was like “we’ll I’ve never played serious sports so you just don’t have that gene. I know you’re having fun now but the NBA is out of the question”… quite honestly, even if he was right, that’s just not the way to go about things and it was even common sense to me at the time.. Even when it started becoming obvious that I probably can’t play NBA, I probably wasted a few years of my life trying to prove him wrong before I just grew up and moved away and went about my own life. I don’t usually talk about my dad here, but this was a good opportunity for a little venting lol.. thanks for listening yall

Oh, and just out of curiosity, are you, or have you ever been married, Danel? (I just browsed through the thread, so maybe I missed it)

 

[BlackJackal]

Maternal instincts.


Don't you find it interesting that children are used as a human shield in every BS but in family matters they are suddenly irrelevant compared to needs of parents and their hurt sense of justice?
Main reason for constituting a marriage is the well being of children. Recently we changed that to 'who gets what...children included'.


It is certainly more hostile, if both parents have to interact frequently.


I don't know. Certainly not good. However, I guess it is less damaging than fighting parents, changing loyalties...less stress factors.


Feminists probably use it because it seems damaging to men.
IMHO, I use it because it is my view. I won't take the $ to my grave and I wouldn't feel any pain giving it to my children.


Agreed. In todays world divorced spouse shouldn't receive any alimony in case she does not have any children.
If mother spends the money on things like handbags she should be held accountable.


The battle shouldn't occur if both parents were responsible adults. And if one is simply angry b1atch the other should walk and not to fuel it. Also the judge should see this and sometimes does. What judge usually sees however are too angry b1taches. I simply advocate for being reasonable DJ even in divorce court.

Cost of having no father? Father or angry b1atch?


Actually my father meant positive effects on yourself. A peace of mind


Try to have another perspective. Divorce is for lot of men strong blow to their egos. Ultimate rejection, shattered dreams, feeling like losers, pain from not being close to their beloved children. I get that. But this site teaches us to be above that all and play it with cool head. And like real leaders we should see the greater good and not to bulldoze ahead for some feeling of hurt or injustice.

Unless you married total b1atch I see no reason for divorce battles. And if you made that mistake, it happens, we should cut our loses and not trash around like children.

Thats the dumbest s*** I ever read....

 

[DanelMadr]

Ha ha ha, I don’t agree with all the things you’ve said in this thread, but I agree that we need to tell our kids how great they are and that they “rock” and encourage them all the time. Too many parents focus on all the negatives and raise wimpy/insecure kids. I laughed because it reminded me of my childhood. My parents are both very smart ......

I guess most of us here have similar experiences. That father's approval would probably save us a couple of years of trying to find it and it would give us a head start in self esteem department.
Rites of passage, where you endure some pain or kill a bear might be even better. No amount of academical or professional achievement can compare to being recognized as a man....the hunter, the protector, the fighter.

Don't be mad at your father. He was probably trapped in his intellectual me identity and trying to even improve it by his little clones...you. Later, with your brother he probably wise up and let go. Also however ridiculous it may sound our fathers' egos seem to compete with us. Like they acknowledging us as a man would make them lesser.

My father time to time boasted about his bar fights as a young man but he never acknowledged me when I had a fight....like he did not believe me. When 18 years old I came home pretty f@cked up after fight with some thugs (pickpockets), I received couple of blows but managed to stay my ground with my school mate against considerable force of 5 at least. They finally pulled a knife as deterrent and retreated with us still challenging them. Got bruised face a little, got almost perforated skin below my lower lip. When I came home feeling good like a hero....nothing....not a word. Just mom being a little hysterical "Oh what have you done to yourself." And father...nothing. I knew he saw me as a pvssy but this was a real disappointment.
It took me several years to recover. You know who acknowledged me? A thug. I was such a mess I guess I stopped caring if I live or not. I did not try to find problems but I certainly did not try to avoid them. I once again as was my usual routine challenged thugs in subway and finally got surrounded by 5 very hard types. I was secretly shytting myself and one or two of them were too but one of the thugs smiled at me and said 'Do you think you are James Bond or what?' and they left. My self esteem was cured. I probably "killed my bear". I didn't even bother to tell that to my father.

One more observation I made and it is scary.... It is very rare and I mean very rare to get some support when facing thugs. Occasionally an old woman might tell you something encouraging afterwards. But majority of people won't help you, not even call cops, they pretend it is not happening and the looks on them after it is over.....they despise you for you showed them their cowardice, I suppose. It is scary. When you meet someone who is not like that make sure to shake his hand.

 

[DanelMadr]

Thats the dumbest s*** I ever read....

Thanks for the input. That certainly takes us forward in the debate.

 

[DanelMadr]

Oh, and just out of curiosity, are you, or have you ever been married, Danel? (I just browsed through the thread, so maybe I missed it)

Nope I haven't. I think it is obvious I don't drag along feeling of injustice and rejection.

 

[sexysuave]

Nope I haven't. I think it is obvious I don't drag along feeling of injustice and rejection.

Ha ha, fair enough, but it did also seem like you were a bit inexperienced as I was browsing through this thread. I’m not even gonna pretend like I know you or your personal life, or how many girls you’ve been with, but may I inquire as to why you’ve never married?

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you seem to be at that age where people look at you and wonder why you’ve never been married. There is a guy in my company, I consider him a friend, we also went out clubbing a bunch of times in the past, and he’s 38 now and never been married. Pretty cool guy, very intelligent (probably too intelligent for his own good, I wonder if you’ve ever pondered this as well, as guys that have the capacity to act foolish and just relax and joke around and not overthink sh*t tend to do much better with girls than those super intelligent guys who can literally sit there and come up with a sound, logical explanation for just about anything, including why some girl is not good for them.)… anyway, back to the guy from work. Super smart and actually extremely good looking also, most girls at the company say that he’s the best looking guy there, out of a close to 1000 people at our location.

However, there is just something there that I just can’t explain. I’m not even gonna pretend to go into it and try to describe it, but it is something different about him separating him from rest of the guys and I can almost see it in the look in his eyes. I wonder if that’s why he never settled down. I actually asked him once why he never got married and he was like “umm, I dunno, I guess it just never happened”.. he did tell me that he was somewhat old fashioned.. when I was running free and single a few years back, he saw the success I was having and would many times ask me what I’m doing and how I can juggle all the girls and what if I get “caught”. I looked at him a bit surprised, as he obviously didn’t realize that I was not “in a relationship” with these girls but was simply having fun and sex with them. We would have “moral” discussions on what he thought was right and how things “should be” and what not… yet he choose to ignore the facts that were literally slapping him in the face as I was picking up numbers and girls everywhere we went.

Anytime he would ask me for advice he would go into how he “likes some girl” but is not sure what exactly she wants, if she wants a relationship or not, bla bla, I’m like “umm, have you fu*ked her yet”,, and he would be like “well.. no not quite yet, I’m not sure if that’s all she’s looking for or she expects us to be in a relationship if that happens, and I don’t know if I wanna commit to her yet until I get to know her better….. blab la bla” I’m like “DUDE… buddy!!! You’re WAYYYY overthinking this..” lol… “you need to hit that asap, and go from there, otherwise she might just find another dude that she can actually get laid with lol” once you’ve got her good, then YOU can decide what YOU want to do, and she will either go along with it or not…”

Ok, I’m not sure why I can’t make a post short, I’m trying I promise. Bottom line is, you’re clearly an intelligent guy, maybe even too intelligent, like I said. Sometimes all that intelligence can hold you back and guys need to be able to just be guys, joke around, be “stupid and silly” and connect with girls that way on an emotional level, by making them feel emotions. You can also definitely use your wisdom if you can incorporate it into story telling .. interesting story telling that you can run on girls to build quick rapport with them and try to get in the sack.. but over the long hall, you’re better off being playful with them than being too much of an intellectual. One of my friends came to my work event once where I made a speech at one point and he came to me later and was like “dude, holy sh*t, you sounded so damn smart, what the hell, that’s awesome I got goosebumps” lol. Well, the reason he’s saying that is that because when he’s actually hanging out with me in person with my friends, I’m being a super cool guy, sports fan, player, telling stories, joking around, taking life NOT SERIOUSLY at all, jumping off high cliffs into the lake or river, being one of the loudest guys around, hitting on girls 24/7, having sex with girls anywhere I can get them, flirting with tons of girls, getting belligerently drunk at a bar and walking into a women’s bathroom and end up meeting girls there also (hey heyyy the coincidence lol), down to do just about ANYTHING, to the point where I had a solid reputation of being truly “down for whatever”, taking random trips anywhere at anytime, making out with girls anywhere I meet them, sometimes within seconds.. and all in general, being a complete idiot half the time… lol.. that’s me outside of work.. at work I manage people and am a leader, I still have my sense of humor but I do not curse ever at work and always very professional. I never have ANYONE from my work on any sort of facebook page EVER,, just a personal rule,, because if they saw my single life at the time, and the pictures, they would be flabbergasted lol.. Even though on work trips I have had a week and a half long trip one time where I ended up screwing 4 different girls and was seen with all of them by a few coworker friends, so I did get a “little bit” of a reputation after that lol.. ok,, gotta stop typing..

In the nicest way I can say it, you’re a very smart guy, but it just a little ironic you’ve never been married yet are offering some pretty generalizing opinions on marriage and different guys on here that were married. I’ve known plenty of married guys, even real ALPHA males, that ended up in divorces. I could probably keep writing for another 100 pages on that but I’m not. Bottom line is, you’re teaching a entrepreneurship course in college, but have never owned a business or managed one. Have you at least had some long term girlfriends? Once again, I do agree with a lot of things you said, but I also didn’t agree with some, which is ok. But we have had a few weird characters on this site that used to go out of their way to bash men and make every excuse they can for women. Not saying you’re one of these, but I’ve seen plenty of GREAT men in my life that had a fall because of spoiled, *****y, ungrateful bit*ches.. I love women, and I love my current lady, but man I’ve seen girls mess up guys so bad, guys I was close with, and KNEW that they were great, awesome people. It wasn’t always the alpha thing either, trust me..

Thanks for your story about your father by the way. And I agree, I truly think I would have been less of a problem child had I been more accepted by my dad. I always wanted to go out and do things and be active and play sports and get in playful tussles and play war games, but dad never liked any of it and just felt it was inappropriate and a waste of time and that I should go home and study lol. I’ll never forget my first fight in school, right after that winter break in 7th grade.. I was trying to get in a conversation with one of my buddies when this other guy from class gave me a slight shove as to butt out of their conversation lol.. I beat the living crap out of him in front of everyone in the school yard and EVERYONE was like “oh my Godddd, “ teachers were saying “sexysuave did that?? No, no way, not sexysuave” ahahah, ever since then, I was always in trouble. I almost felt like I had to make up for lost time.. same with girls.. anytime I got out of a relationship with a girlfriend, I went on a serious rampage lol.. In high school I only really had to fight a few times, as people don’t really mess with you when you beat a few people up.. and you sort of become a cool bad ass lol.. combine it with playing sports, and it’s a receipe for success for you, but not so much for your parents… on the basketball playground, I’ve beat a coupe of dudes, but also, I’ve gotten really beat twice.. I mean,, really beat lol part of my tooth chipped off and blood all over me.. but one time it was a 6 foot 8 guy that I puched out first cause I got pissed at something, and then he gather him self and whooped me and the second time by a group of 4 mexicans, cause I apparently f*cked one of the guys girlfriend lol.. she didn’t even tell me she had a bf though ..

I’m glad you’re past your phase of attacking thugs on the street lol that’s nuts!

 

[DanelMadr]

Ha ha, fair enough, but it did also seem like you were a bit inexperienced as I was browsing through this thread. I’m not even gonna pretend like I know you or your personal life, or how many girls you’ve been with, but may I inquire as to why you’ve never married?

There are two sides to a story and I tried to explore the third side, the more or less objective side, which might sound idealistic or naive. Nothings perfect but people tend to omit certain aspects of reality to make their case. Like AFCs or feminsts do. I tried to highlight that in the battle of sexes and hurt pride there are practical reasons for how the courts decide or laws are made. Not that all is anti male or pro female. And even if it is we should be more careful in dismantling it all.

Marriage?
Ego-friendly version: Haven't find suitable partner. I'm really not eager to marry. Freedom junkie - I have to be alone at least for 2 hours a day.
Ego-unfriendly: Believe I deserve better than I encountered, haven't tried that hard, fear of course. Trust issues. Laziness or selfishness. Or not that of a catch as I 'd like to believe.

Not that there is anything wrong with it, but you seem to be at that age where people look at you and wonder why you’ve never been married. There is a guy in my company, I consider him a friend, we also went out clubbing a bunch of times in the past, and he’s 38 now and never been married. Pretty cool guy, very intelligent (probably too intelligent for his own good, I wonder if you’ve ever pondered this as well, as guys that have the capacity to act foolish and just relax and joke around and not overthink sh*t tend to do much better with girls than those super intelligent ...

When most girls consider you a catch you really don't feel the need to prove yourself by f@cking them all. Also most does not mean 'the exact one you'd like' ;-) Being voted the most handsome really means jack shyt. It is better than average Joe but not that much. You even have to be more of a man to prove you deserve it. I had a friend like that one of yours. Girls looked, flirted but he got shyt tested like crazy. And it seemed girls would rather 'not love him in order not to lose him.' - they fear rejection more than us.

However, there is just something there that I just can’t explain. I’m not even gonna pretend to go into it and try to describe it, but it is something different about him separating him from rest of the guys and I can almost see it in the look in his eyes. I wonder if that’s why he never settled down. I actually asked him once why he never got married and he was like “umm, I dunno, I guess it just never happened”.. ...

Over thinking is a big enemy. And one has to make sure his moral standards are not an excuse for cowardice. Surely guys "dumb" to not foresee the consequences are better of, sorta. "Intelligent" guys also tend to be more careful about their image....it is expected more of them by parents and others, so they tend to fear rejection more - blow to the ego/image. Guilty - hopefully not anymore for some time.

Anytime he would ask me for advice he would go into how he “likes some girl” but is not sure what exactly she wants, if she wants a relationship or not, bla bla, I’m like “umm, have you fu*ked her yet”,, ...

Girls complain about guys, who don't know what they want and they are right. It takes a man to make a decision and proceed.
Personally I prefer not to f@ck what I wouldn't date. And I wouldn't date what I know I wouldn't marry. You meet a girl who is very fine but the chemistry is not exactly there and you know you will look around for better one and you don't want to waste her time...hesitation occurs and you blew it.
But if it is not clear that she is not the one, it is wise to give it time, she might surprise you.
Personally I met 3 girls I'd marry on a spot. One was already pregnant. Second was going through divorce. Third was a dud

Ok, I’m not sure why I can’t make a post short, I’m trying I promise. ..... I never have ANYONE from my work on any sort of facebook page EVER,, just a personal rule,, because if they saw my single life at the time, and the pictures, they would be flabbergasted lol.. Even though on work trips I have had a week and a half long trip one time where I ended up screwing 4 different girls and was seen with all of them by a few coworker friends, so I did get a “little bit” of a reputation after that lol.. ok,, gotta stop typing..

Yep, you are right "intelligence" can hold you down. I don't call it intelligence anymore, I call it being a pvssy and once I admitted it, I got major improvement of my situation In case you are projecting a little here I can recommend to heal yourself too

I understand you have to act different at your workplace, at least not curse etc.. And I am not entirely sure here, but I think this different personas are not very healthy. One should have integrity. Not criticizing here for I am guilty of that too but I guess the closer we get to the Real Self on all occasions the better.
I was raised in society which demanded showing respect to superiors, teachers, elders etc. and my generation has unnatural respect for them. We just 'shut up and sit down and listen'. It took me some serious work to unlearn that. There is so much suppressed frustration in our society, it's crazy and it lashes out...road rage etc.

In the nicest way I can say it, you’re a very smart guy, but it just a little ironic you’ve never been married yet are offering some pretty generalizing opinions on marriage and different guys on here that were married.

Well, I'm sorry for the generalizations but I believe admitting to be a pvssy can't really hurt...quite the opposite. At least you can then view reality without hurt pride distorting it. And I see lot of that on MRA sites.

I’ve known plenty of married guys, even real ALPHA males, that ended up in divorces. I could probably keep writing for another 100 pages on that but I’m not. Bottom line is, you’re teaching a entrepreneurship course in college, but have never owned a business or managed one. Have you at least had some long term girlfriends? Once again, I do agree with a lot of things you said, but I also didn’t agree with some, which is ok. But we have had a few weird characters on this site that used to go out of their way to bash men and make every excuse they can for women. Not saying you’re one of these, but I’ve seen plenty of GREAT men in my life that had a fall because of spoiled, *****y, ungrateful bit*ches.. I love women, and I love my current lady, but man I’ve seen girls mess up guys so bad, guys I was close with, and KNEW that they were great, awesome people. It wasn’t always the alpha thing either, trust me..

What ALPHA marries a stupid bytch? As Backbreaker wrote elsewhere screening is a must. If you think you can remake a bytch, just because you are the Alpha, well tough luck. Anyway I understand shyt happens.
Look, I'm not judging anyone. I'm not trying to prove myself here. I just expected more self reflection on this site. We do it for bitter AFCs but divorced guys should be kept in denial about their shortcomings?

What is the mantra here? 'Recognize your mistakes, learn from it and move on.'

It would certainly help my argument if I was divorced twice and still coping well. Maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I am even bigger pvssy because I was never married. Does it mean divorced guys should remain in their hurt mode? Do you have to have cancer in order to treat it? And I'm not even trying to treat it here I'm just appealing to common sense, to calm the f@ck down, don't fight feminists with their own stupid arguments and realize that fighting mother of your children does not go down well with the children.

Thanks for your story about your father by the way. And I agree, I truly think I would have been less of a problem child had I been more accepted by my dad. I always wanted to go out and do things and be active and play sports and get in playful tussles and play war games, but dad never liked any of it and just felt it was inappropriate .....
I mean,, really beat lol part of my tooth chipped off and blood all over me.. but one time it was a 6 foot 8 guy that I puched out first cause I got pissed at something, and then he gather him self and whooped me and the second time by a group of 4 mexicans, cause I apparently f*cked one of the guys girlfriend lol.. she didn’t even tell me she had a bf though ..

Wow, some bear hunting there....as in rites of passage. Hope you settled down now I strongly believe guys should have some martial arts in curriculum and even box fighting. When you know you can fight and you know what to expect, you go around with head a little bit higher. Make a fire, skin an animal and have a fight.

I’m glad you’re past your phase of attacking thugs on the street lol that’s nuts!

I was just challenging them. It was up to them to come closer....and I told them 'I can't hear you, come closer.' Sometimes they did though, woops

Bottom line:
Life would be much simpler if people got rid of their fears of being seen as stupid or weak or whatever.

Feminists induced bias do exist. Divorce level is too high. We can do some improvement to the laws but the main improvement is in us alone as individuals. Sometimes mere act of laying down your arms can actually defuse the situation and help to make reasonable arrangement and if not...it won't get any worse. Even if the opposite side remains furious, it is still better to "fight" with cool head not being trashed around by anger or sense of being hurt. Zen m@therfvckers, Zen rules

 

[sodbuster]

it's not necessarily that we are bitter. We've had our eyes opened by what appeared to be "the one"....good looking, intelligent,sexy and into sex[like a nympho]. Did our deed, was a sperm donor for her children[and they are HER children...in court],raised them, fed and clothed them. THEN, she decides she wants a divorce[either through being a b1tch,cutting you off from "six"(hoping you'll cheat,so she doesn't look like the bad person),etc.]

After having our eyes opened, the divorce courts cut our eyelids off...we can never close them again.

Not saying I'll never remarry...but there will be a SOLID prenup in place. She can leave with HER stuff and thats it.

 

[DanelMadr]

it's not necessarily that we are bitter. We've had our eyes opened by what appeared to be "the one"....good looking, intelligent,sexy and into sex[like a nympho]. Did our deed, was a sperm donor for her children[and they are HER children...in court],raised them, fed and clothed them. THEN, she decides she wants a divorce[either through being a b1tch,cutting you off from "six"(hoping you'll cheat,so she doesn't look like the bad person),etc.]

After having our eyes opened, the divorce courts cut our eyelids off...we can never close them again.

Not saying I'll never remarry...but there will be a SOLID prenup in place. She can leave with HER stuff and thats it.

I was hoping for better epiphany than 'I married a Succubus' here Possible of course, but I strongly believe it takes two to bring out the evil demon.

Love and hate relationships (tuning to only hate eventually) take some effort.
Like being complacent/lazy, turning to approval seeking wussy or AFC, respect demanding or jealousy, passive aggressive patterns, not minding IL....you name it. I understand marriage is slightly different and indeed more demanding game for you can't switch off the charm. And if it takes too much energy to keep the charm, maybe it wasn't the real, natural charm?

We have it harder than our ancestors, because of more freedom and prosperity but I wouldn't like it any other way.

You "lost" some money, which you wouldn't have for yourself anyway. You have beautiful kids, I bet. And your lack of presence can actually be better for them...at least you don't talk them out of basketball and no doubt they do love you.

There is one other solution....registered relationship with some friend of ours, adopting some kids to have something to adore us and to lure in some hot gals trying to un-gay us.

 

[DanelMadr]

You lost me here Danel.

I have been in plenty of relationships, and I can tell you, some girls are great and some can become absolute demons.

Have you ever heard about how women can quickly "turn off" the attraction they have for men? Have you ever experienced such a thing?

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/war-brides/

Here is a good read for you, which I think should go a long way in explaining what we are trying to tell you regarding the mentality of women, and why it is so easy for them to leave a man. And how it is difficult for them to NOT leave when you add in the financial endorsements to go with the "war bride" minds that have developed.

Nicely explained demon, I mentioned. You haven't lost me

They do have the capacity for this ruthless behavior but there is also a cure. The same way men can shed their ego survival protection mechanisms making us unlovable AFCs or abusive Jerks, they can "evolve" out of this and not let it to drive them.

It can't be "cured" by laws, only postponed.
We can't "cure" them, it is up to them but our balanced solid consciousness can help them to tackle it or at least not to make it worse or come out.

When two ego survival protection mechanisms enter relationship....it is a love/hate relationship.

We, men have to fight our demons before we are recognized as a good mate for a reason. We can think it is unjust. But it reminds me of AFCs complaining that girls don't have to approach.

The same way a Nice Guy or Alpha male pretender eventually breaks and creates havoc, mostly thanks to it's partner or lack of, Nice Girl or Independent Gal does the same way.

 

[DanelMadr]

Danel,

My point being, it does not "take 2" to cause a relationship to go bad.

It only takes one party with an easy way, no consequences, and a big fat reward if the relationship does go bad. That is something we have in spades today.

It can take only one, in case one of them is saint.

I encourage you to read the comments under that article you posted, especially reaction from Rollo. And then read reactions of proponents of "sharia" to make women to behave. Then ask yourself what makes more sense.

 

[sodbuster]

I feel like I'm talking to a Catholic Priest who has read a book on marriage and women,but has never lived it. He feels QUALIFIED to comment without first hand knowledge of the subject. I read books on doing fillings,then did them on plastic teeth,graduated to real teeth in a mannequin....but I didn't know SH1T about doing a filling until I did several on patients [wait,this tooth is turned...what does the book say? isn't an option when the drill is turning]. With a girlfriend, you can pull back and assess the situation alone,think and plan the next move. With a wife that lives with you... not so much.

 

[DanelMadr]

I feel like I'm talking to a Catholic Priest who has read a book on marriage and women,but has never lived it. He feels QUALIFIED to comment without first hand knowledge of the subject. I read books on doing fillings,then did them on plastic teeth,graduated to real teeth in a mannequin....but I didn't know SH1T about doing a filling until I did several on patients [wait,this tooth is turned...what does the book say? isn't an option when the drill is turning]. With a girlfriend, you can pull back and assess the situation alone,think and plan the next move. With a wife that lives with you... not so much.

Don't burn the message because of messenger or because you don't like what it says. Some truths are universal. And clearly this divorce business has to be resolved other than by "force" and despair.

Rollo Tomasi:

Gentlemen, it doesn’t get easier, you have to get BETTER. Depending on her conditions, depending upon your own, hypergamy is the stalking butler in the shadows just waiting for you to slip. Every guy in divorce court has the same story, “I never saw it coming.” Could my wife do the same? Not if I stay on top of my Game. I’d like to think Mrs. Tomassi’s commitment to me is iron clad, but I’d be a fool to think it’s unconditional. In fact it’s just this knowledge that inspires me to keep my edge, personally, professionally, creatively, psychologically,..etc. I would expect a wife, your ‘faithful’ LTR, your GF to drop your ass at the call of the next highest bidder.

Bowman:

Very true. I’d like to add that we men also have those ancient survival protecting mechanisms deep inside of us. Manifestations can go from Nice Guy Syndrome (so alphas don’t kill me and mommy loves me) to Abusive Jerk (better smack everyone with a bat before they see my weakness). In order to “protect” us our mind creates an image of ourselves, which is false for it does not even dare to tackle our survival part of brain. We end up feeling incomplete, frustrated etc. and seek for a partner to fill the void. Which he or she can’t of course.
And when these female and male egos meet we have those love/hate relationships ending in tragedy.
There are three ways to “cure” or evolve ourselves:
1) External force of law on social pressure, which only post pones the solution and makes lot of damage (Religious/Conservative laws and peer pressure etc.)
2) Internal pressure – society/religion invoked guilt….tears you apart and stuns you
3) Reasonable balancing of yourself. Looking through your pain and eventually taking your ego in the open to not let it ever drive you again. – even if your partner is still driven by it, your consciousness or it’s manifestation – commanding presence can certainly help her.

Or you'd like to believe this to be a solution:
MacAgent

Agreed. IMO, this is why men “oppressed” women for so long. Females need some type of external morality and ethics placed upon them, because they lack the ability to moderate themselves based on anything but their own emotions.

In that case we really can't find common ground.

 

[sodbuster]

Rollo has earned the right to say what he does,he's got a wife. I generally agree with what he says because he has the depth to his life to know what we've gone through. His words have a subtle nuance in meaning that you aren't picking up. kind of like my 19 year old son explaining "the Game" to me...He hasn't done enough pickup to truly understand what Neil is saying.

As I explained it to a friend this weekend. There isn't a chance in hell you'd try to punch me out tonight[he knows I'm a Brown belt in 2 different styles of karate]. BUT, what if you knew you would get 200k for TRYING? THATS what no fault divorce does...gives her half your wallet for trying. IF women had to PROVE we had done something wrong, or we could PROVE they did something wrong and have it affect the monetary situation and children... the divorce rate would drop and men wouldn't be as afraid to marry.

 

[DanelMadr]

We are again mixing two levels. Personal and Public/Laws.

In case of Personal...there is no way but to improve yourself or whatever... unless there is huge amount of help from society making pressure on women to stay in relationship, which I think wouldn't be wise. Because you won't find the line between incentive and threat. And it wouldn't make you try harder.

In case of Laws, indeed there are bias but honestly in the end of the day primal custody takes all. I'm in favor of no alimony, accountable child support and maybe some psychological testing but that's it. Once you start to split care or condition child support, we are screwing children. And you can't do much more. 'Whose fault' divorce is nonsense. If she doesn't want to stay I won't hold her. What good would that bring to me or family?

If you assume you are so much mature than your woman who needs your guidance, I can't argue with you and I even believe it to be true in your or in many more cases, where women just hope for finding happiness by changing male. But you can't assume that about every guy and put it in law.

Honestly I would make it even more interesting....I would offer even bigger incentive, actual 500k.bonus. 'You want money more than me? Take it, it's yours. At least I won't share life with gold digger.'

Guys thanks for the input. I exhausted my arguments, here. I understand your point, I feel your pain, I understand your feeling of injustice but I can't offer any solution than no alimony, accountable child support and advice to view your situation more like a DJ than rejected AFC. Sure, it is hugely worse situation, thanks to children and money but I believe principles of Dj or whatever remain the same (and I don't mean NEXT, frame and other shyt...just the ZEN Warrior attitude).

:wave:

 

[sodbuster]

Unless a woman has more money[or thinks she does] than I do, the SECOND I mention pre-nup to a woman I'm dating....it's over. Only women with considerable assets will keep dating me. I can't help thinking they were playing the divorce lotto....not really caring if it worked out because they could take half.