Was this a test to see if I give in?

[jnMissouri]

You know that women test for strength, we men test for compliance. I got compliance from her, she got strength from me.



So we have established boundaries which she is following, such as no hanging out with other men even in a group setting such as networking events, etc. Once in a while she will bring up some ridiculous scenario that agitates me and asks me what about if I do this. Last night it was, what if I want to go out to dinner with my friend Kim and her husband, is that allowed? I told her no, we already talked about this before, if there is another guy there and I don't go, she doesn't go.

She said but what if she wants to talk to Kim about something and she doesn't want me to hear it. (Her friend Kim and her husband know of me and that I'm her boyfriend). I said that's something she can do over the phone, why would it be ok for her friends husband to hear something about her but not me? She said but we've always hung out together as a group, etc. I told her that was when she was single and she is not single now, she can go to dinner with her friend Kim alone but if her husband is there I either be there or she doesn't go like we've agreed to many times about boundaries. She said but you told me before you have a life and don't want to always go to such things. I told her yeah, but you didn't even invite me in this scenario. You just immediately come up with hanging out with them without me because you want to talk to her and don't want me to hear it, something you can do on the phone with her or alone with her, I told her it's a ridiculous scenario with BS excuses as to why she has to go alone just to agitate me. I reiterated my expectations that if there is another man there I either go or she doesn't go. I asked her if that was clear otherwise I was hanging up and she said yes. I asked her twice, both times she agreed.

So I kept getting upset at the scenario, as she should know better than that. So I'm getting louder and more vulgar, so she said if I keep pushing her let's end it. I told ok go for it, hang up and don't call me anymore. I said it over and over again (all night I couldn't get her to do it) but suddenly she did hang up (I hung up on her earlier that night too). So I texted her and told her to bring me my house keys back tomorrow and to let me know for sure it's over before I go bang another girl. She said I'll bring your stuff tomorrow and go for it with others, sorry I couldn't make you happy.

So I call her and she answers (despite hanging up on me a few minutes earlier and she even answered when I called her after I hung up on HER earlier). I told her I want my stuff back tonight. She said oh it's icy I don't want you to drive in these conditions. I told her no I want it back tonight. Somehow we got back on the topic of the scenario and 1) she said I was the one that said let's end it not her, she didn't want to break up and 2) she said it's a misunderstanding, in the past when she was single and she hung out with her friend, her friends husband always joined so she wasn't sure how to handle that if he showed up and wanted to see if I was ok with that, she said he is a 70 year old man, etc. (true, I've seen him on facebook). I told her that's a simple problem to solve, when you want to hang out with her you tell her it's just the girls, no guys, we leave the guys at home for this one. If her husband is there we go out as a group. I asked her again if this was clear. She said yes. I mentioned it again and asked her if she had any issues with it to tell me because I don't want to be with her if she does, telling her I expect her to follow my boundaries even in this situation. Again I asked her if my expectations are clear about the boundaries and following them. She said she doesn't have a choice (as in, she must do what I want her to do if she wants to keep me). So then we make up and make plans for the next day as if nothing ever happened....

My friends and I all feel this was a test to see if I buckle and show weakness and bend to her. Otherwise why the ridiculous scenario that was completely illogical and designed to push my buttons. Otherwise why agree to abide by my boundaries still even in this scenario after I asked her to repeatedly otherwise I'm done. Why answer my call when I call her back, why did she tell me she wasn't the one that wanted to break up I did and why comply 100% especially at the end and tell me she has no choice but to do what I ask her to do in this scenario...

She likes masculine men. Her father was dominant and abused her mother apparently. She has told me before she doesn't like feminine men when I've pointed out well dressed but girly looking men. I take it she would have lost attraction for me if I had given into her?

Also, am I don't think I'm being unreasonable about this. If she is going out to dinner with them, her boyfriend needs to be there, she is not single and has no reason to go hang out with her friend and her husband without me. No he's not a threat, I even let her keep her friends husbands number in her phone, her friend knows she has her husbands number, the guy is 70. She sometimes likes to talk to her husband about a guys perspective. I wasn't worried about that. But my boundaries are clear: if there is another man there, she doesn't go without me....

 

[Modern Man Advice]

You know that women test for strength, we men test for compliance. I got compliance from her, she got strength from me.



So we have established boundaries which she is following, such as no hanging out with other men even in a group setting such as networking events, etc. Once in a while she will bring up some ridiculous scenario that agitates me and asks me what about if I do this. Last night it was, what if I want to go out to dinner with my friend Kim and her husband, is that allowed? I told her no, we already talked about this before, if there is another guy there and I don't go, she doesn't go.

She said but what if she wants to talk to Kim about something and she doesn't want me to hear it. (Her friend Kim and her husband know of me and that I'm her boyfriend). I said that's something she can do over the phone, why would it be ok for her friends husband to hear something about her but not me? She said but we've always hung out together as a group, etc. I told her that was when she was single and she is not single now, she can go to dinner with her friend Kim alone but if her husband is there I either be there or she doesn't go like we've agreed to many times about boundaries. She said but you told me before you have a life and don't want to always go to such things. I told her yeah, but you didn't even invite me in this scenario. You just immediately come up with hanging out with them without me because you want to talk to her and don't want me to hear it, something you can do on the phone with her or alone with her, I told her it's a ridiculous scenario with BS excuses as to why she has to go alone just to agitate me. I reiterated my expectations that if there is another man there I either go or she doesn't go. I asked her if that was clear otherwise I was hanging up and she said yes. I asked her twice, both times she agreed.

So I kept getting upset at the scenario, as she should know better than that. So I'm getting louder and more vulgar, so she said if I keep pushing her let's end it. I told ok go for it, hang up and don't call me anymore. I said it over and over again (all night I couldn't get her to do it) but suddenly she did hang up (I hung up on her earlier that night too). So I texted her and told her to bring me my house keys back tomorrow and to let me know for sure it's over before I go bang another girl. She said I'll bring your stuff tomorrow and go for it with others, sorry I couldn't make you happy.

So I call her and she answers (despite hanging up on me a few minutes earlier and she even answered when I called her after I hung up on HER earlier). I told her I want my stuff back tonight. She said oh it's icy I don't want you to drive in these conditions. I told her no I want it back tonight. Somehow we got back on the topic of the scenario and 1) she said I was the one that said let's end it not her, she didn't want to break up and 2) she said it's a misunderstanding, in the past when she was single and she hung out with her friend, her friends husband always joined so she wasn't sure how to handle that if he showed up and wanted to see if I was ok with that, she said he is a 70 year old man, etc. (true, I've seen him on facebook). I told her that's a simple problem to solve, when you want to hang out with her you tell her it's just the girls, no guys, we leave the guys at home for this one. If her husband is there we go out as a group. I asked her again if this was clear. She said yes. I mentioned it again and asked her if she had any issues with it to tell me because I don't want to be with her if she does, telling her I expect her to follow my boundaries even in this situation. Again I asked her if my expectations are clear about the boundaries and following them. She said she doesn't have a choice (as in, she must do what I want her to do if she wants to keep me). So then we make up and make plans for the next day as if nothing ever happened....

My friends and I all feel this was a test to see if I buckle and show weakness and bend to her. Otherwise why the ridiculous scenario that was completely illogical and designed to push my buttons. Otherwise why agree to abide by my boundaries still even in this scenario after I asked her to repeatedly otherwise I'm done. Why answer my call when I call her back, why did she tell me she wasn't the one that wanted to break up I did and why comply 100% especially at the end and tell me she has no choice but to do what I ask her to do in this scenario...

She likes masculine men. Her father was dominant and abused her mother apparently. She has told me before she doesn't like feminine men when I've pointed out well dressed but girly looking men. I take it she would have lost attraction for me if I had given into her?

Also, am I don't think I'm being unreasonable about this. If she is going out to dinner with them, her boyfriend needs to be there, she is not single and has no reason to go hang out with her friend and her husband without me. No he's not a threat, I even let her keep her friends husbands number in her phone, her friend knows she has her husbands number, the guy is 70. She sometimes likes to talk to her husband about a guys perspective. I wasn't worried about that. But my boundaries are clear: if there is another man there, she doesn't go without me....

Damn dude, if I am being honest I didn't read the whole post as the first two paragraphs were pretty telling you to have an unhealthy view of what a relationship is. So I have to ask: What is the root of your reasoning for prohibiting her from being around other men to that extreme? I might get 1 on 1's but you seem to take it to an extreme and possessive end.

The bottom line is you might have a disorder which in the end if only eating you up inside. And that is what might really hurt, it's that you do it to yourself.

Thread carefully.


Modern Man Advice

 

[jnMissouri]

Damn dude, if I am being honest I didn't read the whole post as the first two paragraphs were pretty telling you to have an unhealthy view of what a relationship is. So I have to ask: What is the root of your reasoning for prohibiting her from being around other men to that extreme? I might get 1 on 1's but you seem to take it to an extreme and possessive end.

The bottom line is you might have a disorder which in the end if only eating you up inside. And that is what might really hurt, it's that you do it to yourself.

Thread carefully.


Modern Man Advice

Let me tell you all the people I've met who's gf or wife hung out with men in a group setting, at a bar, at a restaurant, etc. and was either 1) drugged and raped or 2) cheated and was using group outings as a way to date other men initially...

There is such a thing as group dates, and it's no different than a woman going out with the girls and having guys in the group...which is a way for a woman to keep her options open and date without it seeming like cheating. She can explore her options. Bottom line, it's up to my girl and I to decide what is acceptable for us and what is not. She doesn't want me to do similar and she doesn't even want me to have pictures, texts or numbers of exes...

Point of the post was, was this a test...

 

[jnMissouri]

Dude you are so drawn into her world you have no idea. She has you making crazy azz rules to justify dating an obvious cheater and liar. Dump her now.

Right, she is an obvious liar and cheater because she asked me if she can hang out with her friend and her husband who is 70 years old, both of whom know I'm her boyfriend. Thanks for the input lol.

 

[jnMissouri]

Damn dude, if I am being honest I didn't read the whole post as the first two paragraphs were pretty telling you to have an unhealthy view of what a relationship is. So I have to ask: What is the root of your reasoning for prohibiting her from being around other men to that extreme? I might get 1 on 1's but you seem to take it to an extreme and possessive end.

The bottom line is you might have a disorder which in the end if only eating you up inside. And that is what might really hurt, it's that you do it to yourself.

Thread carefully.


Modern Man Advice

What's wrong with her inviting me to the dinner? She didn't bring that up...just that she wants to go out with her and her husband...to talk about something she doesn't want me to hear....and you say I'm the one being unreasonable?

So my gf should be allowed to go out with a woman and her husband to talk about something some other guy can hear but not me, her bf....and I'm not even invited in this hypothetical scenario....and I'm the crazy guy, goooot it...

 

[jnMissouri]

no, because of your other spam threads about her. She is an attention wh0re, that is why you are so paranoid of her cheating.

An attention *****? Who hasn't dated in three years since her divorce, and despite being a dime, has only been with three guys in her life other than me. Makes sense. Even her family and her kids told me she hasn't dated in three years since her divorce and even her sisters have asked her why after all the guys the tried to get her to date she dated me and fell for me...she even turned down a guy with a private jet when we were just dating. She told her sisters I make her laugh. She even told me on our first date that's why she replied to me, my profile was funny.

I don't think you know what an attention ***** is. Attention *****s go out with other men all the time when they are single....she has not.

 

[StacksHitEmUp]

Sounds like you have some issues my man because those boundaries aren’t normal. Seems like you’re a dictator in the relationship and she will revolt. Boundaries are good but they should be reasonable, unlike yours.

 

[metalwater]

yes, in this case, it was a test.

the logic is that if it's ok to go with her girlfriend and guy, then it's ok to go with her guy friend if another girl. slippery slope. your terms are not that complicated, strict but simple.

you want the boundaries because you have felt and or seen the sexual energy from her to at least one other guy. if you have seen and felt her cold rejecting others you would not feel this way.

if you're not committed to this relationship in some way that you can not get out of, get out or demote to plate. in your case based on the threads and ideas just get out. You're either going to get cucked or in a serious fight with some guy who will likely be guilty.

you have a much better chance at happiness by finding another woman that you have more confidence in.

 

[B80]

Assuming its not a test for a moment. Sounds odd to me why she would want to go out for a meal with a friend and their and husband, without you. Surely she would invite you along, being her BF (assume you;re more than casual, dont know the back story some have alluded to.

Why would she use a social encounter with a male and female that would involved a serious discussion without you? Like you say, this could be carried out over the phone or 1 to 1 with girlfriend, assuming its not some kind of business chat, or around something the man has insight/expertise in? Or perhaps 1 or both of the couple don;t like you and she's trying not to reveal it?

Sounds like hard work to me, back and forth debating about is x scenario ok, how about xyz etc. Doesn;t sound like a good footing for a relationship. Although maybe once you assume 'power' after initial tests/probing, she'll become more submissive.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@jnMissouri
This sounds like she likes you but thinks your boundaries are too constricting so she's trying to negotiate something that is more her speed. Imagine her friend wants to go out with her and bring her husband and your girl has to say 'oh he can't come because my man doesn't like that.' It's embarrassing for her because it screams that you're incredibly insecure in the relationship. And it speaks volumes that she doesn't invite you, she probably feels suffocated af.

Let her go out with whoever and indirectly dare her to leave by giving her all the freedoms she wants. If she fuucks up then dump her and find a girl you actually enjoy that respects the freedoms you give her. Instead of dumping her right away you can also give indirect warnings like going out, working out, meeting new people, and otherwise preparing yourself for the single life. If she doesn't make an effort to bolster the relationship then end it and bullet dodged.

It also sounds like you don't have your own life, otherwise you'd understand that the best way to feel better about her going out without you is to do it yourself. If you had an abundant social life it wouldn't even feel like an issue to you.

If she talks about the guys that hit on her when she gets back then that would be more of a test imo. If a girl brings that up to me she'd better be saying it to tell me how she shut the guy down and bragged about me to them. If she says anything else, even just complains about it, then I tell her what I want to hear and what I don't want to hear as a warning. I might explain to her the importance of talking each other up, especially to others, but even that isn't something I should have to do, so she still loses points in my book.

You should probably focus on yourself for a while so that you can build some self confidence and have that cold blooded dgaf attitude women love.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Sounds ridiculous to be honest. You can call it whatever you'd like. She views it for what it really is. Deep seated insecurity.

And I promise you no matter what anyone says it is not an attractive trait and over time the more you try to "enforce" it, the more respect she loses for you.

 

[derby1]

An attention *****? Who hasn't dated in three years since her divorce, and despite being a dime, has only been with three guys in her life other than me. Makes sense. Even her family and her kids told me she hasn't dated in three years since her divorce and even her sisters have asked her why after all the guys the tried to get her to date she dated me and fell for me...she even turned down a guy with a private jet when we were just dating. She told her sisters I make her laugh. She even told me on our first date that's why she replied to me, my profile was funny.

I don't think you know what an attention ***** is. Attention *****s go out with other men all the time when they are single....she has not.

you know nothing......

you also sound like your about to go shoot a school up.

Seek therapy

 

[jnMissouri]

@jnMissouri
This sounds like she likes you but thinks your boundaries are too constricting so she's trying to negotiate something that is more her speed. Imagine her friend wants to go out with her and bring her husband and your girl has to say 'oh he can't come because my man doesn't like that.' It's embarrassing for her because it screams that you're incredibly insecure in the relationship. And it speaks volumes that she doesn't invite you, she probably feels suffocated af.

Let her go out with whoever and indirectly dare her to leave by giving her all the freedoms she wants. If she fuucks up then dump her and find a girl you actually enjoy that respects the freedoms you give her. Instead of dumping her right away you can also give indirect warnings like going out, working out, meeting new people, and otherwise preparing yourself for the single life. If she doesn't make an effort to bolster the relationship then end it and bullet dodged.

It also sounds like you don't have your own life, otherwise you'd understand that the best way to feel better about her going out without you is to do it yourself. If you had an abundant social life it wouldn't even feel like an issue to you.

If she talks about the guys that hit on her when she gets back then that would be more of a test imo. If a girl brings that up to me she'd better be saying it to tell me how she shut the guy down and bragged about me to them. If she says anything else, even just complains about it, then I tell her what I want to hear and what I don't want to hear as a warning. I might explain to her the importance of talking each other up, especially to others, but even that isn't something I should have to do, so she still loses points in my book.

You should probably focus on yourself for a while so that you can build some self confidence and have that cold blooded dgaf attitude women love.

Turns out she miscommunicated. English is not her first language and she doesn't think much when she speaks. What she meant was her friends man ALWAYS joins her when she tries to hang out with her friend. That's what she was asking about, how to deal with that because she thinks it's weird that he always goes with her for girls night between the two of them. As far as the insecurity angle, it's BS. Women always try to say that if you say anything about male friends, etc. You're jealous, insecure, etc. Jealousy and insecurity have nothing to do with the fact that women cheat with male friends 82% of the time they do cheat. Fact from a therapist. Having no boundaries is flat out dumb, and thinking that it would ever be ok for your girl to tell her friend and her friends man things she doesn't want to say in front of you is insecurity is ludicrous. THAT is disrespectful and letting that slide is what would cause her to lose respect for you. It shows you will let her do anything and step on you.

My girl has ditched all male friends and agreed to all boundaries. It has nothing to do with insecurity or jealousy. I don't go to bars out of respect for her. If I did and she said something to me about it and I responded by saying you're just jealous and insecure it would mean I'm gaslighting her or have trouble thinking logically. People in relationships don't belong in bars. Case in point, two of my employees wives cheated on their husbands while out at bars. Why are women in relationships out at bars....to get attention from other men, and letting them do that is flat out dumb. But anyone who wants to say boundaries are insecure has little experience with actual relationships. Heck, most of the people I've seen on here don't have any actual posting history of women of their but go around giving advice about dating lol.

People always assume if you have boundaries you must have no life. I'm an executive and own millions in investments. I have rentals I have to manage and several other things going on in my life, including friends I hang out with regularly. But anyone who thinks it would be OK with me to go out with one of my guy friends and his wife but not invite my girl because I don't want her to hear what I'm talking about should really get their head checked. It's flat out disrespectful to her.

What's funny is I asked my girl to tell me when she goes for girls night out (she didn't before but now she realizes that was a mistake). So I tested her the other day by telling her I was going out later. She immediately asked me "where to?? what time?? When will you be back"

It's amazing how women sometimes have doublestandards until the tables are turned. You should have seen the look on her face when I told her I would expand my circle of female friends...In the end, she got rid of her male friends. If our relationship is a priority, making random male friends should not be something she should be doing. And all of the people who are like, oh it's insecurity and you're constricting her, BS; one of my female coworkers was my female "friend" and her husband knew of us. He even asked her about me. He later found out she was in my bed. So many posters here would tell him oh you're insecure if you don't let her go out to lunch with male coworkers, have male friends, etc. Yeah, that worked out well for him not having any boundaries...

 

[jimwho]

I find having trust and being trusted in a relationship to be a turn on, even sexy. Hope you can find what I'm talking about some day. It's hard to explain.

 

[firstbornunicorn]

Serious personality disorder that needs attention here.

 

[metalwater]

And all of the people who are like, oh it's insecurity and you're constricting her, BS; one of my female coworkers was my female "friend" and her husband knew of us. He even asked her about me. He later found out she was in my bed. So many posters here would tell him oh you're insecure if you don't let her go out to lunch with male coworkers, have male friends, etc. Yeah, that worked out well for him not having any boundaries...

One of the common mantras is that a girl with a high enough interest level will not cheat on you. This is true, the problem is it's rare for a girl to have an interest level that high. They will fck, have an LTR, or marriage at a medium interest level.

Your boundary is fine. She might complain, but as always see what she does. If she follows it, then you are good. If she doesn't follow it then she is not for you. Some other girl will put high enough value on you to follow.

It is strict but not cruel. You know what men do and you know how the slippery slopes work.

Most of the guys that claim to be very successful with plates are telling you to not have boundary yet they tell that they will simply next any LTR that fck another or demote. It's the same thing, when your boundary is broken you will next, just like them. Almost all of them have had an LTR get nexted. Who is to say, perhaps if they had your boundary system then perhaps they would have better results. As long as your only acting is to next them for boundary break you're just fine and it's a good system. If they want to cheat on you they will either way. The boundary system you have will cause them to give fewer chances to other guys to work with them.

Would you take advice on this topic from men who are actively trying to game married and LTR women? Of course will tell you to let her free, with your boundary it's hard for them to get to her.

Stay the course. Take good care of her in all ways. Protect her from the world in all ways you can. If she wants out, open the door and let her go as some other will like to be in your care. Women do not know what is best for them in some cases. We talk about how they ride the merry-go-round and then hit the wall, while at the same time helping them to do that.

Women are not equal to men. the emotions they have that control the actions they take can be hacked.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

I’m with @BackInTheGame78 on this one.

Too many rules; too tyrannical.

Great relationships are based in respect and trust. There seems to be a level of respect here but a lack of trust, hence all the rules. The lack of trust will erode the respect over time. That’s an iceberg lurking beneath the surface.

The problem with highly desirable people is that they are the recipients of attention all the time and any time they leave the house. You cannot eliminate the fact that your partner is desirable and you cannot imprison her either.

But neither is it wise to be so constrictive. I have an entirely different way of looking at things. I will give my man a great deal of rope. If he hangs himself then that’s on him and I avoid further involvement with an untrustworthy partner. Likewise I expect to be given sufficient leeway (rope if you will) and avoiding compromising situations is MY responsibility.

Partners should not police each other. If there is a need to police one another that points to lack of trust and other issues (jealousy & insecurities and things that are a poor reflection on the police state partner.)

I was married to a nightclub owner who had the hottest club going when we married. I traveled constantly on business. Neither one of us cheated. He trusted me completely and I him. The key to trust in that kind of environment is transparency without judgement. This allows your partner great freedom to do as they please and communicate what they do to you. I have many male friends and always have since my youth. My partners have female friends. I do not waste emotional energy policing my partner. Nor will I be policed. I have character and I am loyal. I do the right thing as a result when nobody is looking. I do expect the same from my partner. But I am not going to dictate to another autonomous human being what they can or cannot do. I am going to model good character no matter what situation I find myself in.

Listen I’ve had men try and pick me up in the security lines at airports, on rental car buses, in waiting rooms, on the subway, in airplanes…I quit wearing makeup to try and reduce the attention. I wore my wedding ring long after being divorced at times.

But I do the right thing when the chips are down & no one is there to see.

Just last night I was flying home from a day trip. Got a bite to eat at the airport. A guy struck up a conversation. I’m not going to be that stuck up stick in the mud who turns up her nose and snorts “I’m taken”. I’m going to work the fact that I’m taken into the conversation and when my BF called? I answered the phone & made clear that I’m taken (to my conversation partner) and also was straightforward with my BF that I’m getting a bite to eat and chatting with a guy at the restaurant. Total transparency. Builds trust by doing.

My worry for the OP is that he knows he can be a target for gold diggers. That’s a legit concern. But to my mind I wonder if these rules and policing are a way to compensate for that fear and paranoia, which is reasonable for him to have.

The ugly truth is that a woman this desirable might not be willing to put up with all the rules and policing OP is doing if he wasn’t the millionaire he is. OP knows that. He’s not stupid.

Trust is a real issue here. Right now things are still pretty rosy. This is not going to improve upon getting married or once the honeymoon period wears off…and it WILL wear off.

Relationships are always negotiated between the two people in the interaction. In time that negotiation should reach a natural equilibrium on terms agreed to by each partner. Those terms are whatever they determine.

I cannot exist under the relationship circumstances that OP describes, I don’t care how rich or famous you are. I’ve had extremely wealthy men interested in me over the years. They often have an entitlement attitude seated in their wealth much like beautiful women have an entitlement attitude seated in their beauty. Neither is good in a LTR.

Be careful OP. I see the potential for a toxic dynamic to develop here. I hope I’m wrong.

Cheers

 

[EyeBRollin]

OP I understand and appreciate your premise. However, your mistake is trying to control women. Women cannot be controlled. They do what they want.

They key to getting a woman to do what you want is that it has to be her idea. Discuss boundaries when negotiating the relationship. The key to enforcing them is congruency. There is no need to huff, puff, threaten, or be overbearing. Always give her the choice to be with you and the repercussions for what behavior is a red line (withdrawal of attention and walking away).

Another note for advanced gamers;
Something not often discussed is what compliance truly means. A woman has to comply because she wants to. If she is forced to comply she will resent you and destroy the relationship later. They never forget.