Wall Street bonuses make me sick.....

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Italian workers usually have 4 weeks vacation time and 45 work hours a week, which is not a lot less than American workers. BUT in America, an average salary is probably somewhere around 1800$/month, while over here it's around 1100$/month. Also remember that (on average) houses and other stuff cost a lot more over here (I'm talking about Italy, I know other European countries are A LOOOOOOT better, because I've been there).

In the States you don't get 3 weeks worth of vacation until after you been with the company for 3 to 5 years. The average middle class employee works a minimum of 45 hours a week but since we are an "always connected" society and typically work from home to the hours are closer to 60. The ones that don't have the opportunity to work as many hours usually take a second job (madness).

Housing costs in several areas here in the States are comparable to those in Italy, New York, Connecticut, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco & Houston to name a few. They aren't all a large or as esthetically pleasing as a lot of the homes in Italy.

What I see as the major benefit of living in western Europe is that there is a better quality of life if you're into spending less time working and more time doing your own thing. It actually shows in the overall health of their people. They have the time to eat better food and generally live a more active lifestyle. Not active in that they go workout every night after work, they don't need to. Their lifestyle is that of balance and family life, a very good thing.

 

[Latinoman]

Did you happen to see the bonuses people get who work on Wall St. I think it was 23.9 billion dollars or something and the average person got $140,000 or something.

This is disgusting. I used to work in finance, but left it because there is no personal satisfaction.

What good do these people who work on Wall St. do for humanity? Absolutely nothing. All they do is help big companies get richer and rich a-holes get richer.

What about the real heroes who should actually get lucrative bonuses. The Doctors, Fireman, Cops, Educators, EMT's, Social Workers etc.

People who work on Wall St. actually make 4X as much as others who work in NYC....very, very sad.

Those are the same people that commit suicide when the market goes down.

It is like a Russian Roullete.

 

[Derek Flint]

Italian workers usually have 4 weeks vacation time and 45 work hours a week, which is not a lot less than American workers. BUT in America, an average salary is probably somewhere around 1800$/month, while over here it's around 1100$/month. Also remember that (on average) houses and other stuff cost a lot more over here (I'm talking about Italy, I know other European countries are A LOOOOOOT better, because I've been there).




Again, I wasn't talking about Europe, I was talking about Italy, where unemployment is lower than in USA.

No, the UI rate in Italy is 7.7%, much higher than that of the current US rate of 4.5%

Italy's UI rate had been in double-digits most of the last decade.

Source: http://www.indexmundi.com/italy/unemployment_rate.html

 

[Adone]

No, the UI rate in Italy is 7.7%, much higher than that of the current US rate of 4.5%

Italy's UI rate had been in double-digits most of the last decade.

Source: http://www.indexmundi.com/italy/unemployment_rate.html

That's probably not taking into account recent State's rules about jobs. I can't really speak about politics and economics in English, but I can assure you that today's Italian UI is around 2%.

In the States you don't get 3 weeks worth of vacation until after you been with the company for 3 to 5 years. The average middle class employee works a minimum of 45 hours a week but since we are an "always connected" society and typically work from home to the hours are closer to 60.

Yes but that's justified by earning nearly two times as much as an Italian average worker earns. I'm not saying that it's preferrable, I'm just saying that it has some logic to it: you work more, you earn more.

Housing costs in several areas here in the States are comparable to those in Italy, New York, Connecticut, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco & Houston to name a few. They aren't all a large or as esthetically pleasing as a lot of the homes in Italy.

New York is a different situation. In Manhattan for example, houses are more priced than Rome, but why? Because people who need to live in Central Manhattan are mostly Businessmen that are willing to spend millions for an average-sized apartment. Other cities you listed have high housing costs in relation to other american cities, but are average costs for a medium-sized italian city. I used to live in a small apartment, far away from the center of the city and I had to pay around 1200$ a month. And it surely wasn't the most expensive city in Italy, in relation to housing costs.

They aren't all a large or as esthetically pleasing as a lot of the homes in Italy.

Actually, American houses are usually a lot bigger than Italian ones. Your average Italian lives in an apartment with 2 bedrooms, a kitchen, a bathroom and a living room, paying around 1000$ a month. Is that any way better than the American situation?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

That's probably not taking into account recent State's rules about jobs. I can't really speak about politics and economics in English, but I can assure you that today's Italian UI is around 2%.





Yes but that's justified by earning nearly two times as much as an Italian average worker earns. I'm not saying that it's preferrable, I'm just saying that it has some logic to it: you work more, you earn more.





New York is a different situation. In Manhattan for example, houses are more priced than Rome, but why? Because people who need to live in Central Manhattan are mostly Businessmen that are willing to spend millions for an average-sized apartment. Other cities you listed have high housing costs in relation to other american cities, but are average costs for a medium-sized italian city. I used to live in a small apartment, far away from the center of the city and I had to pay around 1200$ a month. And it surely wasn't the most expensive city in Italy, in relation to housing costs.




Actually, American houses are usually a lot bigger than Italian ones. Your average Italian lives in an apartment with 2 bedrooms, a kitchen, a bathroom and a living room, paying around 1000$ a month. Is that any way better than the American situation?

This is proof again why I say that the quality of living in Western Europe is better than here in the states. Everyone here believe bigger is better, more is better. We can't stop overindulging in how much we work, how much we spend, how much we eat, the list is endless. The one thing that we seldom hold with the same reverence for our free time and peace of mind.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

#1. Succes isn't logical. If it were, those who attain the highest degrees would be the wealthiest, but most of the wealthiest people only obtain their degrees as HONORARY degrees, not as a something they strived for PRIOR to their success.

#2. They got paid big and fat b/c of the benefit to the COMPANY, not society. Society's construct is of what's a benefit to BUSINESS, just like government. As long as business holds the gold, they hold the power. It isn't logical, and it might not be moral, but it's the "law," and like some I don't wholeheartedly agree.

#3. Within the context of Wall Street and High Finance, there are more sharks and losers, than winners. Read the books, work in it, and observe. BECAUSE there's so much money possible, high incidents of unethical actions are likely.

-Check out the average mutual fund. They give out more freebies STILL to those who sell financial products. But these costs aren't disclosed. And as of yet, many in the financial industry get cushy vacations and sales trips...so to say it's "vital" to the economy, isn't entirely true. Making a buck is #1. Everything flows from that.

Jim Rohn once said it..."This isn't all the company pays, it's all they pay YOU." True words.

People talk about what CEO's get, and yes, some don't do jack shyt except steal, but the "theory" behind their 10 million to 100 million pay, is the gains delivered (or expected) to shareholders, which are into the BILLIONS. What's his ROI? What's your ROI?

If GOV jobs weren't so controlled and based on "who you know", then the prices for services would fall as the demand (supply) for the jobs increases. TONS of people working in offices as admins/servce assistants, would love a nice pension, paid for benefits for life, and a good salary, benies, nice working hours, but it's about who you know, and how big the GOV is. We have enough waste as it is, but there's obviously sectors which get 50k-100k+, or more. Heads of the police departments have nice fat homes. And even janitors make over 50k, or more. Not much, but they have decent hours, a pension, vacation time, and benies, adding up to more than another 25k in intangible benefits.

A person's ROLE is based on what value OVER AND ABOVE IT'S COST that it provides. Service assistants at PUTNAM, don't get much over 40k, because they don't create value above that. It's like needing someone to clean the park after a game. The seats don't have to sparkle, but they should be nice enough to come back. Yet, exceptional sales people theoretically can earn unlimited income, because they have a value far beyond the cost of their employment. Wherever you work, if you align with what creates exceptional value for your role, you'll always be valuable.

What they get is disgusting, yes. They don't return anything to the economy. And not all wealthy live the utopia put forth by Rand. Some may have read the book, but we also don't live in a purely capitalistics system. Some may even realize it's more SOCIALIST, if they took a true look at the whole thing from a higher level. I believe in what she says, but that's an ideal put forth not being realized ATM.

Do politicians deserve what they get?
- high income?
- huge benefits?
- lifetime healthcare and insurance for their families?
- etc.

We pay for that.

It's the same argument as...Should we be waging war, costing into the trillions, while indebting the country, and leaving millions in poverty, and having a defunct ss system?


A-Unit

 

[MetalFortress]

I cannot believe any of you don't think what the people on Wall Street make is totally excessive. But I guess, their salaries are justified because your tax dollars aren't paying for it? I guess it does not bother you either that athletes who can barely spell their own name make $10 Million a year either?

You people are sad and greedy

Do you not have a brain in your head?

Why do athletes get paid so much? Athletes are salesmen. Let's use the San Diego Chargers, for example.

My San Diego Chargers are 13-2 this year. Charger merchandise is sold out everywhere I go in this town. Southern California as a whole is beginning to latch onto the Chargers, SoCal's only NFL team. The entire city, which had been decimated by political scandal, is being rejuvenated. You walk around the Gaslamp, Mira Mesa, National City, Ocean Beach, you name it, and you will find people talking Charger ball, and walking with an extra bounce in their step, because their team just won. Season ticket sales could top 60,000 next year. If the Chargers go to Miami this year, so will tens of thousands of Charger fans, which adds to Miami's economy as well. The best athletes also become salesmen for other companies. Any company that uses LaDainian Tomlinson as a spokesman, hires him to be a salesman for them. Radio and TV ratings go up, leading to more advertising sales. LT alone is a salesman for Charger tickets, Charger merchandise, radio ads, TV ads, stadium ads, TV deals, radio deals, everybody who advertises on national TV during a Charger game, businesses in other cities who sell to San Diegans, businesses in San Diego who sell to other cities, possibly businesses in Miami who sell to Charger fans, businesses in other cities who sell Charger merchandise, and every company who he does advertisements for.

People make what they deserve. If you aren't making 100,000, you don't deserve it. If you aren't making a million, you don't deserve it. Period.

 

[squirrels]

Dunno if any of you have read, "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki. But it SHOULD be required reading for anyone asking the kinds of questions and making the kinds of comments in this thread.

 

[seanchai]

Why do athletes get paid so much?

...

People make what they deserve. If you aren't making 100,000, you don't deserve it. If you aren't making a million, you don't deserve it. Period.

Not to mention the scarcity of a guy like LT. There are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people qualified to be police officers, but there are a tiny handful of people qualified to be anywhere near LT's talent, and actually no one has ever been as good at what he does (score TDs in one season specifically) as him.

He earns what he makes. Probably there are a tiny handful of people in America who deserve to make $10m as a Christmas bonus. I know I'm not qualified to run a trading firm.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...He earns what he makes. Probably there are a tiny handful of people in America who deserve to make $10m as a Christmas bonus. I know I'm not qualified to run a trading firm.

The difference is that countless people believe they deserve to more money but not all of them have earned the right to make more money.

 

[bob2007]

Did you happen to see the bonuses people get who work on Wall St. I think it was 23.9 billion dollars or something and the average person got $140,000 or something.

This is disgusting. I used to work in finance, but left it because there is no personal satisfaction.

What good do these people who work on Wall St. do for humanity? Absolutely nothing. All they do is help big companies get richer and rich a-holes get richer.

What about the real heroes who should actually get lucrative bonuses. The Doctors, Fireman, Cops, Educators, EMT's, Social Workers etc.

People who work on Wall St. actually make 4X as much as others who work in NYC....very, very sad.

But you have no clue how they got there and how tough it is. There are so many that don't make it when they start trading and there are those that don't make it to wall st. altogether.

I'm a finance major from the University of Toronto (one of the top university's in Canada. I've worked in accounting, traded stocks for 7 years + research. I've only had 1 interview with a major bank in the country. Nm wall street, can't even get the foot in the door.

Most trading jobs, they're looking for the top students with 3.5+ GPA, or people with MBAs. People work hard for that. That's why Goldman pays the big bucks.

Currently, I day trade stocks for a small company and it's 100% commission based. They have very strict rules, high fees and give you very little money to fool around with. I've made no money in the last 3 months and it could be another 2 months before I make anything (or get fired). However, trading's what I want to do because of the "potential" for big money. I could easily have a set salary job for 40-50k, but this is what you give up to have a chance at Wall Street money.

 

[Derek Flint]

That's probably not taking into account recent State's rules about jobs. I can't really speak about politics and economics in English, but I can assure you that today's Italian UI is around 2%.

I just posted proof that Italy's UI rate is 7.7%

If you can prove otherwise, post it.

What you think isn't relevent if you can't back it up with proof.

 

[Derek Flint]

Athletes are entertainers. They get what the market will bear, plain and simple.

The Wall street guys get paid on their worth to their employer as well.

If you make your employer 500K per year, of course you're going to get a 6 figure salary and a huge bonus, because you're worth that.

Again, don't be a hater - it's a sign of insecurity, envy, jealousy and a whole bunch of other traits that are replusive to women.

 

[n00bPimp]

All this communist talk is not true dj behavior.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Mahon, you're forgetting one important thing: As a librarian, your salary is paid for by the public (taxpayers). Therefor, you must be helpful towards everyone.

In contrast, a stockbroker's salary is paid for by his clients. Therefor, he doesn't need to be helpful towards society; he just needs to be helpful towards his clients.

I can't put it any more simple than that. If you still fail to understand, then I can only assume you have an irrational envy towards successful people.


PS. By the way, I don't get any benefits from librarians. I don't even live near a library. Yet I still pay your salary. Doesn't that mean you're basically stealing from me?

 

[djtdot]

I am only a third of the way through Atlas Shrugged but the original poster (and the post) kinda reminds me of James Taggart.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...PS. By the way, I don't get any benefits from librarians. I don't even live near a library. Yet I still pay your salary. Doesn't that mean you're basically stealing from me?

:woo: Wooooooooooooooo!! :woo:

Actually, it's not quite stealing, he's not purposely looting without offering something in exchange. Here's an interesting concept though, since the salaries are dispersed through a state agency which is funded though taxation to distribute money for the livelihood of another whose not providing a service you use. Sounds kinda like government aid.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I am only a third of the way through Atlas Shrugged but the original poster (and the post) kinda reminds me of James Taggart.

Nahhhhh, I'm thinking Wesley Mouch.

 

[mahon83050]

Mahon, you're forgetting one important thing: As a librarian, your salary is paid for by the public (taxpayers). Therefor, you must be helpful towards everyone.

In contrast, a stockbroker's salary is paid for by his clients. Therefor, he doesn't need to be helpful towards society; he just needs to be helpful towards his clients.

I can't put it any more simple than that. If you still fail to understand, then I can only assume you have an irrational envy towards successful people.


PS. By the way, I don't get any benefits from librarians. I don't even live near a library. Yet I still pay your salary. Doesn't that mean you're basically stealing from me?

That is quite an ignorant comment. I am sure when I get a library job, some people will say the same stupid thing. First off, I pay my taxes just like everyone else. Since your tax dollars do pay for government workers, how much of your PERSONAL money would go to an individual like myself? Maybe a couple of dollars?

Why don't you say that to a police officer next time he pulls you over.

 

[PRMoon]

That is quite an ignorant comment. I am sure when I get a library job, some people will say the same stupid thing. First off, I pay my taxes just like everyone else. Since your tax dollars do pay for government workers, how much of your PERSONAL money would go to an individual like myself? Maybe a couple of dollars?

Why don't you say that to a police officer next time he pulls you over.

People tell cops "I pay your salary!" all the time. The point is INDIVIDUALS are paying money for the services rendered to investors. They also pay taxes in which people in government derive their salaries. So they're paying twice in essance. Since we don't live in a socialist country, the government can't tell people how to invest their money. I pay my fiancial agent a good sum of money and i'm just one of his many clients, so he's well off. It wasn't a mistake him ending up in that position, nor should he be penalized for being there.