Wall Street bonuses make me sick.....

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Mahone GOT OWNED!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/180398/owned_video/

Hey, I don't want to start a flame war, that's not my intent. I have nothing against librarians, I worked in the library during the days of paper card catalogs and the Dewie decimal system. The closest thing to a computer was the Microfiche machine, but that's another story.

It's just strange that the one thing that makes the States one of the best countries to live isn't appreciated by its citizens. In this country no one has the right to prevent you from making as much money as you want. It's a privilege that every citizen has yet few take advantage of it and the ones that do are denounced for doing so.

Morality is it fair that sports figures make more money than teachers, probably not. However it's not their fault that they make what they do, the market will bear it. People spend countless amounts of money to go to sporting events and to buy merchandise. People can rattle of the starting lineup of a team but they can not name all of their child's current teachers. Money isn't the problem.

 

[dirtyvibe]

the value of your work depends on what people are willing to pay for it.

police, firemen, etc. get paid **** because their work is ****. putting out a fire, locking up a criminal is nice, but it isn't very productive.

production consists of consumption , savings (= investments, think of investment bankers, hedge funds, etc.), government expendintures in the forms of consumption and savings, and exports-imports.

you don't get paid for being nice, you get paid for what you produce. if you didn't get paid for what you produce, there'd be no motivation to produce and no one would make anything

it comes down to a system of, ill give you a shoe for a baseball bat. if youre making stuff that anyone can make, everyone will make it and the item won't have a high value. if you can increase the worth of someone elses goods or make a really nice good, you will get paid for how much you can increase the value of that good.

investment bankers increase the value of the money by investing the savings, and police increase the value of money by locking away people who'd make it less valuable through political instability, murder, burglary, etc. one does it better than the other but not everyone has the knowledge to do it the way the former did.

 

[Adone]

Wealthy people are good for the economy. Ever try to get the average Joe to pay about .40 of every dollar they make to taxes? Where do you think they get the funds to pay the salaries of fireman, police officers and state educators, EMT's and social workers. Physicians are screwed because they are a part of the wealthy and are in comparable tax brackets AND have have ridiculously expensive education burdens.

Fùckin Italy... Over here, everyone's actual income is 50% of their declared wage. Meaning, if you get 100K a year, you will only see 50K, the other 50K will go away on taxes.

 

[mahon83050]

Hmm, I never considered a librarian as a benefactor to the people like a teacher or a doctor. I look up my books and reserve them online, I get an automatic email to tell me that my book is available at the library, I go to the library and pick it up from the reserved section. I go to the auto checkout station and swipe the barcode of the book and my library card and leave. Did I even notice the librarian? Other than stocking the shelves like a grocery clerk, what do you do that benefits society?

It is people like you who are ignorant and do not respect the profession.

And I guess all that nurses do is take peoples blood pressure and clean up vomit and crap right?

Librarians do alot more than shelve books! Those people you see shelving the books and working the circulation desk are not even librarians. They are pagers or library paraprofessionals. Hell, a librarian may not be as valuable as a doctor or teacher, but they sure as hell help more people than those on Wall St.

Professional Librarians need a Masters Degree in Library and Information Science and deal with database management, acquisitions (They choose what the library owns) and reference (help people find information).

How many people on this message board can say that have a Masters Degree? I am one of the elite.

You should be lucky you have access to a free library, not everyone does.

 

[PRMoon]

I still don't understand where you're coming from. If people are willing to expend so much of their personal money into investment firms providing for the high salaries of these people, then why are you upset? I mean it's their money and they're paying for a service. The salaries and bonuses are rightfully theirs because they're being paid for their services. The same is true for athletes and actors/celebs, plastic surgons, luxury car dealerships. The public is paying for all of these things. Why is it therefore wrong to receive your due for work that other people are paying for?

 

[dirtyvibe]

It is people like you who are ignorant and do not respect the profession.

And I guess all that nurses do is take peoples blood pressure and clean up vomit and crap right?

Librarians do alot more than shelve books! Those people you see shelving the books and working the circulation desk are not even librarians. They are pagers or library paraprofessionals. Hell, a librarian may not be as valuable as a doctor or teacher, but they sure as hell help more people than those on Wall St.

Professional Librarians need a Masters Degree in Library and Information Science and deal with database management, acquisitions (They choose what the library owns) and reference (help people find information).

How many people on this message board can say that have a Masters Degree? I am one of the elite.

You should be lucky you have access to a free library, not everyone does.

how many librarians do you know making 200,000 $ + ?? hahaha wall street = elite 1337

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Fùckin Italy... Over here, everyone's actual income is 50% of their declared wage. Meaning, if you get 100K a year, you will only see 50K, the other 50K will go away on taxes.

True, but the one thing that most European countries have over the states is the ability to have considerable more vacation time while working considerably less. In the states you are lucky to only work 45 hours a week and typically have up to 3 weeks vacation time. Most Americans work more hours per week and take less than 3 weeks vacation. Compare that to the the 35-40 hour work week and up to 8 weeks of vacation in some European countries. Yeah, the taxation is crap but the work/social balance is much better.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

It is people like you who are ignorant and do not respect the profession.

And I guess all that nurses do is take peoples blood pressure and clean up vomit and crap right?

Librarians do alot more than shelve books! Those people you see shelving the books and working the circulation desk are not even librarians. They are pagers or library paraprofessionals. Hell, a librarian may not be as valuable as a doctor or teacher, but they sure as hell help more people than those on Wall St.

Professional Librarians need a Masters Degree in Library and Information Science and deal with database management, acquisitions (They choose what the library owns) and reference (help people find information).

How many people on this message board can say that have a Masters Degree? I am one of the elite.

You should be lucky you have access to a free library, not everyone does.

So what do you actually do with that vast amount of information while all the pages do the real work? If you had read my post, I worked as a librarian before there were computers to do all of the work, I guess that's why you actually need a Master's degree to understand how to work the machinery.

And why compare what you do to nursing, not many people can perform the duties of a nurse on their own unlike the skills of a librarian. Which brings up the question again, what duties do you fulfill that a page couldn't perform that benefits society?

Do you benefit the health of people such as a nurse does? Do you actually teach people such that as a teacher or a professor? Do you protect people such like policemen, firemen or the military? Do you effect change in the economy such that of those who work on Wall Street? Do you produce a product or manage information that keeps corporations viable enough to continue to offer thousands of jobs to people?

Do you offer a morning pick me up to harried workers such as the counterpeople at Starbucks? What do you do with all that education to benefit society, I only ask because you use it as a barometer to define what you feel a person should earn in their profession, it's only fair that you then validate yourself.

 

[mahon83050]

So what do you actually do with that vast amount of information while all the pages do the real work? If you had read my post, I worked as a librarian before there were computers to do all of the work, I guess that's why you actually need a Master's degree to understand how to work the machinery.

And why compare what you do to nursing, not many people can perform the duties of a nurse on their own unlike the skills of a librarian. Which brings up the question again, what duties do you fulfill that a page couldn't perform that benefits society?

Do you benefit the health of people such as a nurse does? Do you actually teach people such that as a teacher or a professor? Do you protect people such like policemen, firemen or the military? Do you effect change in the economy such that of those who work on Wall Street? Do you produce a product or manage information that keeps corporations viable enough to continue to offer thousands of jobs to people?

Do you offer a morning pick me up to harried workers such as the counterpeople at Starbucks? What do you do with all that education to benefit society, I only ask because you use it as a barometer to define what you feel a person should earn in their profession, it's only fair that you then validate yourself.

Well, to start off, the Masters program is a bunch of B.S. and is not really necessary.

Why is a librarian valuable? A librarian is strictly a public servant and provides good customer service. Sure, YOU or I can go to a library, find information using databases, use the Online Catalog, and find books on the shelves.

You would be surprised how many people DON'T know how to do those things. For example, a public librarian might teach a class to the elderly how to use the internet. How is this valuable? You are providing a FREE service hopefully improving the lives of these people. Maybe by teaching them how to use the internet, they will discover important things they never have before.

In a college setting, alot of librarians help students with their research projects and provide library instruction classes on how to use certain databases. So in a nutshell, librarians are customer service professionals who are also educators in some ways.

Not to mention, we do not get paid much at all. Starting salary at the New York Public Library with a Masters degree is $35,563. This is quite sad if you ask me. Librarians make poor wages considering the amount of education one has to spend to become a librarian.

So yes, maybe I am a little jealous of those people on Wall St. Alot of them do not even have a Masters degree.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...Not to mention, we do not get paid much at all. Starting salary at the New York Public Library with a Masters degree is $35,563. This is quite sad if you ask me. Librarians make poor wages considering the amount of education one has to spend to become a librarian.

So yes, maybe I am a little jealous of those people on Wall St. Alot of them do not even have a Masters degree.

Ah, so the truth comes out. I can understand feeling a bit slighted for expending so much time and money for what seems to be a pauper's wage, especially living in New York; how's a guy supposed to survive?

We are all a product of our choices. Some people chose to go into professions that pay huge salaries. People need to ask themselves what's more important to them; working in a field they enjoy or making a boatload of money. Choosing one doesn't promise that you'll get the other, but that's the thing, it's your choice which path you choose.

 

[whistler]

Wall Street really is the way to go...

I have several friends (mostly analysts) who receive those obscene bonuses everyone's talking about.

Here's the reality:

All that seems to matter is that one or two people in a firm are smart. Everyone else need merely ride along, receiving those absurd bonuses for essentially being loyal and "good enough."

And here's the catch:

To land a position, you still need to look good on paper or have connections.

And here's the sad truth:

All of my friends hate their jobs, despite the money. Unless they're currently in a "star" position, no cares about them unless they F up. Money is money and Wall Street is Wall Street.

 

[Derek Flint]

Don't be such as Hater.

As for what these people do, their taxes fund many of the social service programs that help tens of thousands of people.

Hating successful people is a sign of envy and insecurity.

Interesting that you would quote Martin Sheen, who contributes nothing to society, yet makes Millions of dollars a year playing pretend.

I don't like him or his politics, but I say good for him, and more power to him.

The people that whine/complain about others sucesses usually have very little of thier own.

 

[Derek Flint]

True, but the one thing that most European countries have over the states is the ability to have considerable more vacation time while working considerably less. In the states you are lucky to only work 45 hours a week and typically have up to 3 weeks vacation time. Most Americans work more hours per week and take less than 3 weeks vacation. Compare that to the the 35-40 hour work week and up to 8 weeks of vacation in some European countries. Yeah, the taxation is crap but the work/social balance is much better.

Much of Europe is mired in double-digit unemployment right now, so I would argue that their system isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

 

[Derek Flint]

Francisco, I think the average Joe actually does pay 40% in taxes, only many of them are hidden taxes like alcohol, cigarettes, and lottery tickets. People would scoff at the idea of a voluntary tax, but that's what these items are. Poor people always piss away what little money they do have; that's what keeps them poor more than anything. I think the government sees this and wants their share. I worked in a convenience store and saw the way that the poorest people are the ones who love the lottery the most. I have been on various college campuses for seven years now, and I have not once overheard a conversation about how excited someone was over tonight's lotto drawing. Yet, at any gas station off-campus, there will be a line of average Joes waiting to pay the voluntary tax on their own ignorance by buying a lottery ticket. It's sad.

Yep. It's known as the "stupid tax"

If we were to redistribute wealth equally, like some people want, 80%+ of the people that are currently poor and the same percentage who are currently rich would be that way again after 5 or 10 years.

Look at the trailer trash that wins Lotto prizes, only to piss it all away in a few years, and actually end up owing millions to the IRS

And those Wall St. people?

They get that much money because they create wealth, and are compensated for it.

They get paid what they are worth, like most private sector employee's are.

Not based on some "feel good" hippie dippie BS

Regardless, this thread is going to get political soon, and will probably be closed, but the point is that the private sector generally gets paid on thier value to their employer/company, and not based on some arbitrary number decided on their social value.

And envy and jealousy are not desirable attributes.

Stop being an envious, insecure hater who despises those that are succesful.

 

[dietzcoi]

You all know that "somebody" is in fact paying those $40 million bonuses. Do you think that money is created from thin air? Who is paying this? The CEO does not pay this from his own pockets!

In fact, Stockbrokers skim money from investors as their fees. When the market is "hot" they can skim plenty of YOUR money. They must be skimming a lot to get those million dollar bonuses.

The stock market is a ponzi scheme, those who are buying stock are just paying in to the scheme, and paying the obscene bonuses. When it crashes again, as it always does, all the paper value the average Joe has vanishes. Where did it vanish? Into the pockets of the stockbrokers.

This is NOT an honorable profession. It is just a modern version of the robber-baron. Funny how a lot of people I know, who do not understand a thing about the stock market, still pour thier money in there, hoping for riches. They have no idea how it works or what may happen!! Does this make sense to you? If they are lucky they will have all thier money when they retire. If not, they wind up like the Enron victims.

We may need this system to fuel our capitalist economy but in fact the rich are just like the aristocracy of old. Many , many of them did not earn it by creating something (like Bill Gates) but by just cheating the foolish chumps out of thier money

And Yes, the government also cheats the chumps with the lottery.

Dietzcoi

 

[Adone]

True, but the one thing that most European countries have over the states is the ability to have considerable more vacation time while working considerably less. In the states you are lucky to only work 45 hours a week and typically have up to 3 weeks vacation time. Most Americans work more hours per week and take less than 3 weeks vacation. Compare that to the the 35-40 hour work week and up to 8 weeks of vacation in some European countries. Yeah, the taxation is crap but the work/social balance is much better.

Italian workers usually have 4 weeks vacation time and 45 work hours a week, which is not a lot less than American workers. BUT in America, an average salary is probably somewhere around 1800$/month, while over here it's around 1100$/month. Also remember that (on average) houses and other stuff cost a lot more over here (I'm talking about Italy, I know other European countries are A LOOOOOOT better, because I've been there).

Much of Europe is mired in double-digit unemployment right now, so I would argue that their system isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

Again, I wasn't talking about Europe, I was talking about Italy, where unemployment is lower than in USA.

 

[seanchai]

mahon, I have a lot of respect for you. I always thought library science was an awesome field, and librarians are good people, even the women with more facial hair than me who work at my university library (!). Good for you.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Much of Europe is mired in double-digit unemployment right now, so I would argue that their system isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

Unfortunately from what I've seen it's pretty much labor type positions which aren't readily available. That being said it's only 1 out of 10 people who are unemployed.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Don't be such as Hater.

As for what these people do, their taxes fund many of the social service programs that help tens of thousands of people.

Hating successful people is a sign of envy and insecurity.

Interesting that you would quote Martin Sheen, who contributes nothing to society, yet makes Millions of dollars a year playing pretend.

I don't like him or his politics, but I say good for him, and more power to him.

The people that whine/complain about others sucesses usually have very little of thier own.

Remember when people were ragging on Bill Gates almost daily about how much he was worth? They never said a thing about how tens of millions of dollars he gave away to educational institutions for libraries and medical research for cancer and aids among a myriad of other things. Yet people like him are still sniped at. Maybe if more people got off their chairs and build their own businesses so they can help make substantial contributions to society if they believe its that important.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...
We may need this system to fuel our capitalist economy but in fact the rich are just like the aristocracy of old. Many , many of them did not earn it by creating something (like Bill Gates) but by just cheating the foolish chumps out of thier money

And Yes, the government also cheats the chumps with the lottery.

Dietzcoi

Actually, many of the wealthiest Americans did create their fortunes like Bill Gates. Consider Conrad Hilton, Warren Buffet, John Walton, Michael Dell, Samuel Johnson, Ty Warner and Pierre Omidyar all became multi-millionaires and billionaires because of products they created. That's part of the root of Capitalism, creating goods and services for consumption.

I do agree that there are many people who make tons of money by what seems as cheating people out of their money but I say that people who do not want to learn how to manage their own money and will pay to defer that ability to someone else will get exactly what they deserve in the end. It's synominous to opening up their wallet blindly to a person and saying "I don't know what to do with this, will you help me?" The bad thing is that everyone has the right to learn how to manage money yet few can even create a family budget or balance a checkbook.

This country was built by Capitalist. Every family who first immigrated here started a business mostly farming. They built, created and expanded. Their success allowed them to hire people and to pay them a wage. All the pressure was on the business owners to keep it viable and to help keep people employed. It's the same thing today however we have a glut of people who would rather work for someone else rather than start their own business.