Virgin Brides

[Strelok]

Jaylan so when you get frustrated you stop quoting and start replying in bold to make quoting harder for other users? you dont have to distubr yourself I read your first post so I can save time and avoid the reframing and the repeating.

Oh wait I just realized the bolded was for me only, I feel so special you maybe miss the old times?.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=187541&page=4
Lets see how many you piss off this time I can add some at post 67

please man, find other ways to have the last word, maybe stopping saying bvll**** that has been rejected or the common myths of mainstream society, I liked you more when you kept reframing and aimed to tire down others.

You got it wrong they shown you why and how in any possible way, learn your lesson and realize this no place for that bullsh1t, try the NY times forum you'll find plenty of people eager to believe that.

 

[zekko]

Its not rocket science. Humans are most attractive during young adulthood (20-39)

I suppose this is generally true, although I think you could often extend the male range into at least the early 40s. While a woman would be more like 20-28.

The thing is, a male is not held to the same standard of beauty that a female is. A man does not have to "look pretty". To be handsome does not require you to have smooth boyish skin to show you are fertile. Men can shoot sperm into their 80s.
While physical attraction is always important, there is more to what makes a male attractive than looks - there are behavioral and status elements at play.

If I was spinning plates, I have no doubt there would be some twenty-something girls in the rotation. But even though I have always tended to date younger, I can appreciate what some of the older women have to offer.

One interesting thing that you bring up is all the anger here that is directed toward aging women. You're right, it is a little puzzling. Guys seem to be angry at what the girls did when they were at the height of their attractiveness. So why not be mad at the young girls, instead of waiting until they lose their value to hold them in contempt? I guess a pretty face covers over a mutlitude of sins.

 

[zekko]

Younger women still have a chance to save themselves. It has nothing to do with looks as much as it has to do with a young girl still being able to make a wise choice before it's too late. Unfortunately, most will make the same mistakes that their older sisters did.

I understand the satisfaction with the "comeuppance".
But are you trying to suggest that a girl find a mate for life by the time they're 24? To marry young or forget it?

I didn't find someone I considered worthy enough to marry until I was 33. But you're saying a girl should have to "settle" for whatever they can find by their mid twenties or else "justice" is going to come down on them? Thank God I didn't have to make such a snap decision.

If you look at it this way, then really the girls should be shopping as hard and fast as they can (much as guys spin plates), trying to find a good match, since their time is so limited. The impending "comeuppance" must encourage them to act in the way you object to: Dumping decent guys quickly in order to search for a real gem.

I know some girls have a sense of entitlement and let their sexual power go to their head. But I'm not going to be angry at a woman for not getting married before they turn 30.

Seriously, a woman who keeps fit and trim, and manages to stay attractive should still find herself in demand in her 30s. She may not command the eye of every guy she sees like she did when she was younger. But there are a lot of older guys looking to date more within their age group, rather than just bagging a young hottie.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

JAYLAN, start here:
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/sexlies.pdf

Pay particular attention to Strategic Interference Theory.

 

[Nutz]

One of the game or MRA blogs showed the divorce rates per amount of partners. The more partners women had the higher the divorce rates. Furthermore, other studies have shown that satisfaction levels of women who had more partners were lower. The more **** a woman has bounced up an down on, the less satisfied she is with a single **** from that point forward.

 

[davewe]

This has been an interesting but foolish argument.

Jaylan - 30 and 40-somethings are clearly more sexually experienced, skilled, attractive and more powerful than 20-somethings. For that matter, 50-somethings are by far the best. As an older man I can assure you that you are correct in all your assertions. Please tell all your 20-something male friends this and encourage them to go after those uber fine older women!

Psst! Guys - you think he bought this? Leaves all the 20-something hotties for us!

 

[Jaylan]

Jaylan so when you get frustrated you stop quoting and start replying in bold to make quoting harder for other users? you dont have to distubr yourself I read your first post so I can save time and avoid the reframing and the repeating.

Oh wait I just realized the bolded was for me only, I feel so special you maybe miss the old times?.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=187541&page=4
Lets see how many you piss off this time I can add some at post 67

please man, find other ways to have the last word, maybe stopping saying bvll**** that has been rejected or the common myths of mainstream society, I liked you more when you kept reframing and aimed to tire down others.

You got it wrong they shown you why and how in any possible way, learn your lesson and realize this no place for that bullsh1t, try the NY times forum you'll find plenty of people eager to believe that.

No, all you do is avoid making a valid refutation to my counter arguments. You skate around them and change the subject to something else or you make accusations against your opponent.

You arent special btw, I respond in bold when I aim to make various responses to a quote. Its a method used by many posters on this forum.

And no I dont miss the old times, but you seem to like repeating them. Oh yeah, post 67...I remember countering that post citing the support I garner from many member in this forum....be it from private messages, posts in threads, or simple reps. So it is what it is.

You say I have gotten it wrong, I tell you to cite me directly and back up your position with more than pointing to biased blogs. Saying this is "common sense" doesnt give your opinion merit. Anyone can say that about ANY opinion.

In ending, its apparent you do not know how to debate with someone in a proper manner that moves informative discourse along. Take some pointers from Rollo. He knows how to present his position and not pointlessly try and steer the discussion off track.

I am done with you.

Why don't you elaborate what exactly you provided "via studies" that proves they are "more sexual". I see links, but I do not see anything specific that supports your argument. Give us a bone and quote some specifics for me, because I am not seeing it.

Quote me where I said women were more sexual. I never said this matter of factly. I said they were sexual beings and that the intensity of their orgasms is greater. If you read my previous posts with any accuracy you would see I told users to read the opening abstracts in regards to me point.

Pay attention

Your question is irrelevant to my statement and does not negate it. Your response is merely an angry reaction. It is clear at this point that you have some sort of ego-investment in the rationale that "woman are more sexual". A concept which I have already stated cannot be proven nor negated. This is exactly what makes it so useful for women to use and manginas to parrot back.

How is my response angry? Because you say so? How can you detect the emotion I convey from that simple text. Again quote me where I said women are more sexual. If anything I have said they are sexual beings and have great potential. Quit putting words in my mouth and work on your reading comprehension.

Ok, not sure what your point is here, but again it disagrees with nothing I have said.

*yawn*

Not sure what the point of this is either, but you are definitely very angry. Rather than debate a useless point (especially since it is one you are so angry about) I will just point out that this type of reaction is a typical response to a challenged ego-investment.

Again, who are you to think you can detect my emotions from a simple statement?

Someday you may develop the ability to do some critical thinking. It will serve you well once you do.


Who are you to judge what critical thinking is. How was my thinking not critical? Did I not critique the opinions in this thread as well as mine, as well as provide studies for users to investigate?

Just because you disagree with my position does not mean I lack critical thinking skills.

And someday you may be able to hone your reading comprehension skills. It will serve you well sir.

Responses in bold sir.

I suppose this is generally true, although I think you could often extend the male range into at least the early 40s. While a woman would be more like 20-28.

I will agree with the early 40s. But I think this extends to women as well. When I gave the range, I gave the range where adults have the highest frequency of attractive people. The 20s and 30s would be that.

You cannot hammer women into only their 20s, as this would extend to men as well. On a purely sexual and aesthetic scale, men in their 20s are most attractive.

The thing is, a male is not held to the same standard of beauty that a female is. A man does not have to "look pretty". To be handsome does not require you to have smooth boyish skin to show you are fertile. Men can shoot sperm into their 80s.
While physical attraction is always important, there is more to what makes a male attractive than looks - there are behavioral and status elements at play.

While true that men can make children until an older age, men do have the same standard of BEAUTY women do. BEAUTY is about youth. And the most young and beautiful women date guys around there age. 20s women mostly date 20s guys. Note I did not say all.

But women dont select mates on beauty alone. There are other factors, however a lot of the time when women do select a guy to screw just on hotness factor, hes a young fit dude.

What irks me is that when older men do this, guys here all praise them, but when older women do this, they deride it. Saying how those women are over the hill and just tyring to prove they still have it, as if the older men arent trying to say they still got it too.

Thing is, youth is sexy to BOTH sexes. Women like a hot man as long as he looks like a man to them. They have no problem calling a young guy eye candy as long as hes fully developed. 19 year old Taylor Lautner from Twilight is a prime example. You should see what women of all ages say about this kid, even when he was 18

If I was spinning plates, I have no doubt there would be some twenty-something girls in the rotation. But even though I have always tended to date younger, I can appreciate what some of the older women have to offer.

No doubt you could. An older women could get a 20 something easily as well. But I know the usual argument on the forum to counter that fact is that 20 something guys are just in it for sex. Well arent the younger girls in it for just the status or meaningless sex? Its not like any of these folks try to settle into meaningful relationships with older people with great frequency.

These young men and women a lot of times will still see young folks on the side. Its not totally realistic to think a young person will never want someone their age who understands their mindset more accurately.

One interesting thing that you bring up is all the anger here that is directed toward aging women. You're right, it is a little puzzling. Guys seem to be angry at what the girls did when they were at the height of their attractiveness. So why not be mad at the young girls, instead of waiting until they lose their value to hold them in contempt? I guess a pretty face covers over a mutlitude of sins.

This is true, I will be addressing this in a later post.

 

[Strelok]

Jaylan you

1)write mainstream myths (those Rollo proved you wrong example) then

2)reframe to change some detail then

3)shame, indirectly insult and rephrase what you just said only to force
the other user to repeat what he just said, then wait for him to get tired then

4)when in doubt you keep repeating moving around a certain subject then

5)you close the argument citing reps points,private messages and all the other things you cant prove, you seem ego invested, there is nothing bad in being wrong or realize you've been bullsh1tted from media or society.

I have no point to counter your words more than I already did, especially since people more informed than me did as well even better.

Read this blog and you will realize many things http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/

An example from that blog "Women want a Man who other men want to be, and other women want to fvck", there is more truth in this line than in 6 weeks of marriage counseling.

 

[Jaylan]

I am saying that they can marry whenever they wish. But they must be prepared to deal with the pros and the cons of their decision, regardless of which direction they choose.

Men must do the same thing. You think you are going to find a good mate with the attitude that you are so much better than older women when you are an older man?

The "comeuppance" is mainly for those who refuse to accept that they are actually responsible for their life decisions and instead resort to the shaming tactics of telling Men to "grow up and commit to me".

And the women who dont want to commit get shamed for being "wh0res" or being to picky. Basically they get shamed because they date who THEY WANT to date. They get shame for rejecting some dude who feels entitled to have the hot girl he is attracted to. Sorry but it dont work that way. Women are either shamed for wanting commitment or shamed for embracing singledom.

But even when she is single and not sleeping with someone, some will assume something is wrong with her. Shes either a prude or has an off personality, because why else wouldnt she have a bf or FB....and dont act like no one every thinks this way =/

Women had their turn in their 20's, Men have their turn in their 30's and later. I am not the God who created the situation.....I did have to deal with Women when they had the power, they can deal with it when it is reversed.

The thing is plenty of women still have the power in their 30s, as well as men. And smart men have the power in their 20s. The only people ever crying online are the men and women who arent getting what they want and blaming everyone else.

You wanna blame someone for the behavior of young women? Start with US! Men like the bulk of dudes in the PUA community created this. Young women are pedestalized despite us being taught not to do so. When you make out young women to be the holy grail despite the attitude you say they have, you put them on a pedestal. By putting down older women, you put younger women on a pedestal.

And I see even the most seasoned veterans and guys who do well with women, allow a young hot thing to get away with BS. And all this does is gas up their head. The problem starts HERE, with us. The pick up community perpetuates exactly what its fighting against.

Anyone who follows my posts here know that I am huge on accountability and responsibility. The relationship of genders is no exception.

If this is true, read what I just wrote above again and realize who has primary accountability and responsibility over this matter. As the dominant sex with the most power in the world, men act first, then womens' actions are a response to the mans first action.

Get it?

Why do you suppose it is that women almost always seem to find the right guy by the time they hit their early 30's? Did they magically find a "good match"? Or is it panic?

Why do men magically find a good match as well? Sometimes people settle and havent found the right person despite trying their hardest. Sometimes people think its just time to start a family and pick the best mate out of the bunch they meet in their 30s. While others simply decided that they had all the fun they wanted to have in their youth and its time to "grow up"

Men do the same as women. Some, not all, men want to sleep around in their 20s and then open themselves up to the possibility of a relationship once 30 or even 40 rolls around.

I JUST turned 25 last week and I am the last example I gave you. I havent had all the fun I want to have yet. I enjoy love and companionship and intimacy. I look forward to real good love. But I am not ready nor have myself open to that idea atm. Even if I met the right girl now I would turn her away as I wouldnt be able to fully enjoy her because I want to live my life differently until my early 30s.

A party girl who turns down good guys is no different. I get dogged by women all the time for what im doing, and I get props from other girls all the time for not potentially hurting someone since Im staying single until im ready.

You seem to believe that good match's are hard to find, yet there were so many successful marriages not even a century ago where these women and men would be married at a very young age. Why do you suppose that is?

What is your definition of a "good match"?

Define successful. A lot of men were cheating and beating women back then and women couldnt leave because they had no earning power. Thats one example.

Also nowadays people arent pigeonholed by society to marry young. Its acceptable to experiment with different mates. I see nothing wrong with this for men or women.

Again, it is not anger. That is a shaming mechanism. I have NO sympathy for a girl that rides the carousel until she is 30 and then laments that no man wants to commit to her. In fact, I find it hilarious that these women want to act like men, fvk like men, have the independence like men, but cannot deal with the negative aspects of being a man, particularly a man who had to fight for women's attention in their 20's.

Don't blame me, take it up with Nature.

MEN DO THIS TOO. I am riding the carousel right now. Dude, as young, fit, black man with 2 degrees, I have MANY options with women in NYC. Girls like that I have drive and will become a good provider and they also like that I am this in shape, tatted up, bass player in an alt rock band. A good package of bad boy edge and "going somewhere with his life" edge

Plenty of women fight for the right guys attention. Like I said before, the only people complaining about the opposite sex, are the men and women who arent doing well. Look at both sides. Visit a girl forum. Nice girls are complaining about guys like me passing them up. But I DONT WANT a nice girl. I want a bitxhy smart girl with an edge. But whos also independent and going somewhere in life.

I dont need a clingy nice chick who will invade my life when I dont want her to

 

[Jaylan]

JAYLAN, start here:
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/sexlies.pdf

Pay particular attention to Strategic Interference Theory.

Ok for one this study indirectly correlates into the main topic we were debating. I dont see how it proves nor disproves either point.

Secondly, you do present an interesting side topic. Exploitation among the genders. Those is power will exploit those who arent. Those in high demand will exploit those in high supply.

As I said in my reply to Danger, Men being so blinded by potential sex, make it so that women can exploit us with their sexuality.

By that same token, Men being the primary resource holders through out history, exploit women using their wealth and/or status. This is because women are not controlled by their sexuality.

Thus I see an exploitative balance. Either way, heres another point. For all the talk on this site about how men are the more logical and rational sex...if this were true, even the most powerful strong willed man could avoid a womens exploitation. But this is not always the case. If men just used their brains most of the time, women couldnt get away with just being a bitxh with a pretty face, or anything else they do.

Men create this cycle. We ACT. Women REACT thereafter.

Feel me? Whos following.

Thank you, Jaylan, for your thoughtful and insightful arguments. "Noob post was noob" - indeed. I'll concede that I may be wrong about the exact moment of athletic peak. I'll even admit that I "know nothing" as you assert. In any case, the point I'm trying to make has NOTHING to do with this but you don't seem to get it.

I did, however, take your advice and apply it to the central topic. I went out and asked several women when the female sexual peak was. You're right! Most answers fell between the ages of 32 and 40. They must know better than anyone, they're women, right? I also looked it up on Loveshack and the discussion boards on OKCupid and the data there definitely backs up your theory. I even emailed NOW and columnists Maureen Dowd and Naomi Wolf and they corroborated this. In fact they said it was closer to 49 or 50, so there's some deviation there. Every woman agreed, however, that sexual peak has nothing to do with biology and everything to do with how a woman feels, how confident she is, how in touch she is with her body, and what percentage of a man's salary she receives in her given profession.

It basically goes like this. Because men control the world and are the dominant gender, as I have said...we directly and indirectly have a hand in everything women do, think, and feel. Women have the same affect on us, but maybe not as much.

Therefore, given sexual enjoyment is not as simple in women as it is in men, they dont figure everything out until they are more mature. That is over 30. Hell we are "kids" mentally until we are about 25 or even 30. 30 seems to be that age when most people really feel like they have a handle on life and stop feeling like noobs.

This has been an interesting but foolish argument.

Jaylan - 30 and 40-somethings are clearly more sexually experienced, skilled, attractive and more powerful than 20-somethings. For that matter, 50-somethings are by far the best. As an older man I can assure you that you are correct in all your assertions. Please tell all your 20-something male friends this and encourage them to go after those uber fine older women!

Psst! Guys - you think he bought this? Leaves all the 20-something hotties for us!

I see what you did there:yes:

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Well that's a big mouthful of extrapolation, but my point in highlighting Strategic Interference Theory wasn't to indict the entirety of womankind, as you're so eager to defend with every new post. But thank you, it does let me know where your head's at.

Actually this research encapsulates my previous points in outlining the strategies (i.e. social conventions) women have instituted in order to maximize and/or artificially extend their ability to compete in the sexual marketplace – as well as highlight the conflicting sexual methodologies of both sexes. You asked for a cited study to validate my position and I delivered. Your response? Expand the debate to indict the men who'd dare to doubt the earnestness of women's self-reported sexual strategies. I suppose next you'll be accusing us of misogyny for thinking critically about the contradiction between women's stated intents and their behaviors.

You debate like someone with a vested interest in convincing others of your point, like, a woman perhaps?

 

[Jaylan]

I simply try to get a point across that folks seem to not be able to understand.

Women cannot institute anything without men having a hand in it. We are the action, they are the reaction. There is no grand female conspiracy. Things are the way they are and start with us.

Its up to communities like this one to stop a perpetual cycle it dislikes by changing its conflicting actions.

Women behave the way men here dislike because the viewpoints and actions of men here cause it. Smart men can change things. Simply closemindedly throwing blame does nothing.

EDIT: Back to the main topic...How can a guy who uses the argument of "common sense" and opinionated bias discount the sexual feelings and experiences that women said they have. Basically its here-say vs first hand accounts. If you can simply denounce anything self reported then everything felt by anyone ever emotionally could be called a lie.

I mean you really think theres this big conspiracy by women regarding their sexual enjoyment in their 30s. Could it not simply be that they have matured as people and found what works?

Usually the simplest answer is the answer

2nd Edit:

I mean your study did nothing but bring a new topic to the fold. It did not directly say anything about womens enjoyment of sex or frequency of sex by age. You could take the study you brought and try to indirectly link it to many things i.e. reaching.

My studies however directly discussed female feelings or frequency with sex

Also, dont forget women just recently in human history, have been taught to embrace their sexuality. Given the fact that they also have sex parts that arent as easily made to orgasm as men, along with being sexually stifled in this past, you really think its a big conspiracy that with practice and age women get better at sex and have more of it?

Practice makes perfect dude. Its simply that in recent times, its not socially frowned upon for women to be sexual and thus they get better at a certain age

 

[Zunder]

Jaylan says: It basically goes like this. Because men control the world and are the dominant gender, as I have said...we directly and indirectly have a hand in everything women do, think, and feel. Women have the same affect on us, but maybe not as much.

I don't agree with this at all. Throughout history cuniving kunts have / are almost always in the background scheming, manipulating, shaming men into making decisions. I am sure than more than one world leader has been promised the BJ of his life by his wife if only he hurry up and give the go-ahead to go bomb some unfortunate misfits in some 3rd world sh!thole.

We men THINK we run the world, we SHOULD run the world, and perhaps at onetime we DID run the world - but we don't now. And the world is so much poorer and fvcked up for that.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Women cannot institute anything without men having a hand in it. We are the action, they are the reaction. There is no grand female conspiracy. Things are the way they are and start with us.

This is exactly where I'd expect a feminized response to begin - a default position of culpability because men are responsible for the framework of the system. To an extent you're correct in that men have (at least until recently) established the framework of the system. But what does a lesser power do to assert power in the face of an overt and greater power? It goes covert; it operates within that system, redefines that system and applies it's contingencies to achieve its own ends. The culmination of that contingency is realized when the lesser power's methodology is perceived and adopted as a norm of its own.

There is no grand conspiracy, no secret mysterious cabal pushing a negative perception of masculinity - and this is exactly why it's so pervasive. There doesn't need to be a unitary group of 'anti-men' bent on some melodramatic goal of world domination; this feminized ideal is already embedded in our socialization.

It doesn't need one because the mindset is already so installed and perpetuated by society at large a feminized perspective is now taken for granted and self-replicating. AFCs raising AFCs leads to still more AFCS. They don't realize their own bias because it's been standardized, encouraged and reinforced in them, and society, over the course of several generations now.
What's to question? Especially when calling attention to the feminization dynamic leads to ridicule and ostricization?

So to answer your question, no, there is no illuminati shadow conspiracy and that's exactly what makes feminine imperatives normalized and overlooked.

How can a guy who uses the argument of "common sense" and opinionated bias discount the sexual feelings and experiences that women said they have. Basically its here-say vs first hand accounts. If you can simply denounce anything self reported then everything felt by anyone ever emotionally could be called a lie.

The touchy-feely cognitive schools of psychology might embrace self-reporting as standard practice, however, hard sciences like behavioral psychology dropped relying on self-reports long ago due to consistent glaringly observable inconsistencies with behavior. The only reliable measure of intent and motivation is observed behavior. Self-reporting is acknowledged the greatest weakness in the cognitive psychologies, even by its practitioners. You may think I'm relying on correlative speculations or "common sense". I'd argue that any idea I'm offering here or anywhere else is based on commonly observable and predictable behaviors. That's why forums like this are so threatening to people with deep ego-investments in feminization. It's a collective of men sharing common experiences and finding patterns of behavior to develop our own contingencies to operate in that same system I described above. Women hate it because it's stripping back a veneer they've been comfortable behind for so long.

 

[zekko]

19 year old Taylor Lautner from Twilight is a prime example. You should see what women of all ages say about this kid, even when he was 18

The wolf boy from Twilight? I don't doubt that women find him attractive, but men do not need youth to be sexy. I might go so far as to say youth is the exception to the rule. There's a reason they say men age like wine, women like milk.

George Clooney is 50. Brad Pitt is 47. Daniel Craig (the current James Bond) is 43. Sean Connery was in his 40s when he started playing James Bond. Johnny Depp in a pirate costume is 48. Sex symbols all.

 

[Burroughs]

no, there is no illuminati shadow conspiracy and that's exactly what makes feminine imperatives normalized and overlooked.

.

And yet the CIA financed Gloria Steinem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Steinem

I'll assume it wasn't to get a tax write-off

 

[Huffman]

I'm guessing women in Arab countries don't get divorce settlements of half or more of her husband's money plus child support.
:crackup:

From what a man from Jordan told me, they actually do. But I think they have to prove their innocence before they get the support, and apparently that's difficult.

 

[Huffman]

Point is virginity is desired from every man and whoever tells the opposite is a mangina or a guy trying to be cool on a forum, virginity say that her ***** is yours, it means that she is yours and any man wants domination over his woman.

At this point I actually prefer not-virgins, because they don't make you wait for so long... of course if she's LTR material and I'm really in love, then I'd prefer a virgin.

 

[Jaylan]

I don't agree with this at all. Throughout history cuniving kunts have / are almost always in the background scheming, manipulating, shaming men into making decisions. I am sure than more than one world leader has been promised the BJ of his life by his wife if only he hurry up and give the go-ahead to go bomb some unfortunate misfits in some 3rd world sh!thole.

We men THINK we run the world, we SHOULD run the world, and perhaps at onetime we DID run the world - but we don't now. And the world is so much poorer and fvcked up for that.

Lmao, if you think women have been controlling things throughout history, then I do not know what to tell ya. The idea is laughable given their second rate status in the past and in some countries, the present.

You think a powerful world leader would let a woman control the fate of a nation because of a BJ? Thats hilarious.

Its one thing to pull a Bill Clinton, its another to do what he did with that intern and than bomb a nation. Absurd.

Ok, let's substitute "more sexual" with your assertation they are "as sexual". Instead of avoiding the request, point out exactly what you mean by "more sexual".

You cannot substitute anything because I never said "more sexual" If you want to know why I said women can be quite the sexual being, go back and re read my original posts in this thread. Stop being lazy

I know you are angry because you started throwing insults. It's quite easy to spot actually.

But again, give us specifics on what makes women "as sexual". Stop dodging.

I threw insults? Lmao, please quote where I began the insults. And as I said before, you can simply re read my posts with proper comprehension skills to get what I meant with what I have been saying. It is clear as day what I have said.

This is exactly where I'd expect a feminized response to begin - a default position of culpability because men are responsible for the framework of the system.

Oh yes, the response is deemed feminized because it doesnt agree with your mantra. Thats no different than the typical argument people bring against anyone who goes against the grain on this forum.

But your opinion is of your own. I cant change that.

To an extent you're correct in that men have (at least until recently) established the framework of the system. But what does a lesser power do to assert power in the face of an overt and greater power? It goes covert; it operates within that system, redefines that system and applies it's contingencies to achieve its own ends. The culmination of that contingency is realized when the lesser power's methodology is perceived and adopted as a norm of its own.

Again, I think you give women too much credit. Covert power plays by women? If anything its a full frontal assault given the rise of feminism. lets be real here.

There is no grand conspiracy, no secret mysterious cabal pushing a negative perception of masculinity - and this is exactly why it's so pervasive. There doesn't need to be a unitary group of 'anti-men' bent on some melodramatic goal of world domination; this feminized ideal is already embedded in our socialization.

Feminized ideal? World domination? Damn dude, I just dont see this. As the privileged gender, I dont see how women are going to be able to de-masculate our society. It just aint gonna happen in my eyes despite you thinking it already has. I think dudes blow out of proportion the last century or so's change in gender relations and rights.

It doesn't need one because the mindset is already so installed and perpetuated by society at large a feminized perspective is now taken for granted and self-replicating. AFCs raising AFCs leads to still more AFCS. They don't realize their own bias because it's been standardized, encouraged and reinforced in them, and society, over the course of several generations now.
What's to question? Especially when calling attention to the feminization dynamic leads to ridicule and ostricization?

So to answer your question, no, there is no illuminati shadow conspiracy and that's exactly what makes feminine imperatives normalized and overlooked.

Sounds a bit like paranoia to me. One of those guys that wishes for the days of yore where women knew their place

I guess I am an odd ball for having no big issue with the way things are today. Sure some thing could be fixed, but some of the things touted on this board are just a bit much. I lived life, gone to school, graduated, partied, met girls, worked jobs, played in bands, and am still going.

Sometimes I think the thing that sets me apart from some guys thinking is that I have never done rather poorly with women. Because in my eyes thats where a lot of these viewpoints manifest. Guys find this site usually cus they dont do so well with girls and become bitter and then the blame game starts on the various things women do. Thats just how I see it.

The touchy-feely cognitive schools of psychology might embrace self-reporting as standard practice, however, hard sciences like behavioral psychology dropped relying on self-reports long ago due to consistent glaringly observable inconsistencies with behavior. The only reliable measure of intent and motivation is observed behavior. Self-reporting is acknowledged the greatest weakness in the cognitive psychologies, even by its practitioners. You may think I'm relying on correlative speculations or "common sense".

Dude but its NOT JUST the women saying that 30 to 35 yr old women have more sex and have more intense orgasms. The men who sleep with them have been saying this too. But you would dismiss those studies too if I presented them. Which really makes this whole argument pointless because you have your view and I have mine. And even though men and women with first hand experience would tell you the same thing, you will dismiss their "anecdotal evidence"

Women are not going to just say they have more and better sex in masse, in numerous studies, just to say it. Its happening dude. If you dont wanna believe it, cool. End of discussion I guess.

I'd argue that any idea I'm offering here or anywhere else is based on commonly observable and predictable behaviors. That's why forums like this are so threatening to people with deep ego-investments in feminization. It's a collective of men sharing common experiences and finding patterns of behavior to develop our own contingencies to operate in that same system I described above. Women hate it because it's stripping back a veneer they've been comfortable behind for so long.

Lol, are these womens orgasms not observable behaviors and thus predictable based on women becoming more sexually mature and knowledgeable?....Such sex being observable by them and their partners.

Plus I could say this forum is a giant ego investment. Or I could also say that female forums are threatening to folks with deep ego investments in "masculization". I am sure their forums say that. Theres two sides to every coin, so I just say "meh"

The thing is, these forums, be they feministic or Pick up, are just minorities of the greater population. You both espouse beliefs most people, including myself, cannot agree with. Most men and women want to just get along and let people do as they wanna do.

Without believing people have a "place" in society or being pigeon holded by "what nature intended". This is why guys like me dont give a crap if a woman wants to have a great career and make mad loot but also have a good husband and career. Or if gay folks wanna marry, adopt, or have a sex change. Or if a woman wants to be more dominant with a guy at times. Just means shell have to find a guy who fits her. I aint gonna hate, as long as everyone respects one another.

I think what Destini9 said in a blog about finding the right person to match your polarity is the best way to look at things. Guys who are so invested in strict gender roles and such are the one with ego investment. If it doesnt harm me, let folks do whatever. As long as they respect one another. You all can go and call dudes who dont live by your idea of these roles manginas all you want tho

 

[Jaylan]

The wolf boy from Twilight? I don't doubt that women find him attractive, but men do not need youth to be sexy. I might go so far as to say youth is the exception to the rule. There's a reason they say men age like wine, women like milk.

I believe part of that reason is that society's perception of beauty is shaped by men. Which I have said in other threads. What you see in most societys is what rich white men find attractive, and these guys are the people in power. It is what it is.

George Clooney is 50. Brad Pitt is 47. Daniel Craig (the current James Bond) is 43. Sean Connery was in his 40s when he started playing James Bond. Johnny Depp in a pirate costume is 48. Sex symbols all.

Um. I wouldnt say sex symbols anymore. They are still considered sexy for their age, but not sex symbols as some older guys still try to assert.

However, even with them still getting female attention, that doesnt mean there arent plenty of women in their 40s who are called milfs or hot all the time in the media and by dudes. Sure you can say they arent as hot as their younger counterparts, but neither are the guys.

On a college campus the girls I talk to swoon on about Taylor Lautner, Robbert Pattinson, Drake, Shia Lebouf, etc. Sure the other guys get mention, but the younger ones more so.

Testimony isn't to be denounced. They're always taken into consideration. However, whenever, possible, there must be independent confirmation of the "facts."

For instance, if I partake in a brain study, and I report that I feel sharper and quicker-witted than I ever have before in my life, it won't be discounted. But if the study of my brain provides evidence to the contrary, that my mental activity is gradually diminishing (and I don't doubt that it is), depending on the weight of the empirical evidence, my testimony holds very little counter-weight.

Thats the thing! Where is this study saying I am wrong. Where are the studies showing women enjoy sex and have more sex in their peak fertility years?

If anything women are having more sex when their biological baby making time is almost up. Would make sense that they would though wouldnt it. Especially considering that orgasms mean an open cervix which means a greater chance of getting preggers.

Sexuality may seem personal and subjective, but certainly sexual potency and hormonal activity can be (and are) objectively studied and cataloged. It's logical to conclude that the closer one is to menopause, the farther she is from her sexual (read: reproductive) peak. I don't state that as undeniable fact because I'm sure many studies have concluded differently and I'm not a reader of the journals. I'm sure a lot of sexuality is situational (how turned on you are in a given moment). Nevertheless, the risk of infertility in women jumps dramatically after 35 on average and with exceptions. Why would the innate demand for sex spike at that age if the machinery capable of fulfilling its result is beginning to break down? Like i said, I'm no scientist but that's how I understand it.

The thing is, sexual potency is not just about hormones with women. Enjoyment and frequency is not about that either. Please refer to my earlier posts.

But still, 30 to 35 makes sense. Women are more mature, know what they want sexually, know how to have consistent orgasms by that age and usually are starting families. However many girls have started families before this age considering the average age for first child in the US and other western nations is under 30.