Unexpected 3rd date flank

[wishyo]

Well, here is first Anti-Dump quote:
"About sex. I always go as long as I can stand it. The longer the better. I want them to WANT IT when I make my move. This is true: One woman pushed me into her bedroom and knock me down on her bed. She couldn't stand the wait! Another women snarled "Are we going to do it or what?!!!"

Another one about kissing:
“No kiss on the first date. You only kiss her if you think she had a bad time with you. It's a test. Sometimes she may look like she had a bad time BUT DIDN'T!

So you kiss her to see if pulls away or gives you her cheek to kiss. If she had a great time never kiss her. It makes her hope you will kiss her next time.”

So I did kiss her on one date, she didn’t pull away nor she gave me her cheek, the last kiss she managed to open her mouth the way I wanted, still it was shorter than I wanted.
“It makes her hope you will kiss her next time.” That’s what I want, I tested her once in order to find if she really has any interest in me(there are as we know many reasons why girls go on dates, I know now for sure she goes out with me because she has interest, check my other topic where I used bradd80’s stuff about interest level judgement, link: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=218048).
Anti-Dump stuff makes the most sense out of all advices. He mentioned though that this type of approach works better with older girls. Also, check this one:
“The hardest part of the machine is that you will lose many girls who would be willing to make out with you and get physical. But the catch is that these girls only wanted you for that purpose anyway. As one lady friend said to me, “If a girl doesn’t go out with a guy again just because he doesn’t kiss her at the first date, she isn’t worth going out with again.” The Machine is suited for those only looking to satisfy their love, not lust.”

FOLLOW UP as I am at post limit,
As for work, I mentioned that I work in finance industry so working overtime happens pretty frequently. Besides that, I also mentioned that this girl lives in a sh1thole and she doesn’t drive. It is just not convinient… she has to spend 2 hours commuting for a 2 hour long date and spend another 2 hours going back as her last bus leaves at 9pm, she also has to ask her parents to pick her up from bus station lol. She has interest, but not that desperate lol. One date per week is fine with me i.e. one weekend we had two dates in a row, each was like 8 hour plus. I was totally saturated with her, in fact there was a point when I was thinking not to go and meet her nex week… so yea meeting her once per week is enough for now as our recent dates always consumed the whole day, weekend is just the easiest day to pull it off.
I don’t think she is scared, in fact her kino (touching me, looking into my eyes a lot, sitting very close to me, touching my leg with her… )stuff kinda made it clear to me that she wants me to make a move, probably she was expecting some touching/playing first, mb small lip kiss, but I went straight into her mouth.
Actually an interesting thought popped up, on our second date she began touching me throughout the date, then somewhere in the end of the date, we had to stand at some place so she would get stand close to me and move even closer, then I would step back some, she would get closer again, I woud step away again, at some point she got me into the corner lol. Lol, that was so afc, I just realized that. I just gave it a thought as I was typing about her kino. Probably I will have to post this in “most obvious come up you missed/ your most afc move” lol. I think actually after this date she flaked our 3rd date lol.
And ye, you are right about the linger We will see, I might go straight for a kiss right away when we meet. She will probably begin to talk excessively about her vacations, how it was and all that sh1t which I don’t really care about so I would just stop her and kiss her, something like this.

 

[pyros]

see this:

you dont want to escalate because you expect a girl, that is suposed to be a virgin, to do it. Great.

You say that you want her for a LTR when you've just been out with her 3 times. Great.

You say that you want her for a LTR but you say that you're not interested in listening her stories about her holidays. Great.

You want a LTR with a girl that lives 2 hours away from you. Great.


LMAO. Confusing at least.

 

[wishyo]

1) I did escalate 2 dates ago, I got what I wanted=verify she really has interest. I dont really care about actual kissing, not sure about you guys, but i cant say that i am getting some sick pleasure doing that. I think I posted details about our last date with her having some family issues and so on.I just didnt feel like kissing her and playing around, so i didnt do that.
I wanted to hug (just put my arm over her back, not sure about the proper word) her for a long time and made sure she would lean towards my body, I did that, actually had to pull her over lol as she was just sitting close to me. Once again, she was the first one who started touching by putting her head on my shoulder.

2) As for LTRs…This is what I am aiming for, I have no interest in one night stands or just banging some random b1tches. Had enough of that at school. To be precise, we had 6 dates I believe, we met early in June. My family knows her family for many many years, they are not very close friends, but meet frequently so I cant really say she is just some random girl from the street. As I said, LTRs are what I am looking for, will it workout with her? idk

3)Well, I have some general interest, but ye, I dont specifially care about her trip. The only verbal information i need from her is to figure out whether she got accepted to the college she wanted and whether she is still going for another 2 weeks of vacations late in August. Both of that involves me, her fvcking vacations mean sh1t for me as they didnt involve me.

4) This one is tricky indeed. As I said, her family is pretty wealthy, if things will indeed get serious, this problem will be fixed in a moment. Right now she lives in a country house outside of the city. She mentioned something that her family rents their apartment in the city, so once her school will begin, she will ask for that apartment. Besides that, i can rent an apartment in the city, but i prefer to live outside of the city too and i am not going to spend a big chunk of my salary so i can invite her over lol.
She will get a car February as driving age here is 18. Driving from her place to my place is one hour, driving from her place to the area where I work is like 30 minutes.

 

[wishyo]

Another update,
she texted me by herself, i held some conversation. in the end she said she has time both on both days
tell me some more about her interest level and how bad it was that i didnt escalete. pretty sick chick texting me back by herself lol, on our date i will probably abuse her (in a good way obviously) with physical stuff.

 

[wishyo]

Update for doomsayers. During out last text she said she is available on both days, so i told her that I will most likely pick her up on Saturday..
So she texted today asking for a date on Sunday as she can make it 100%. Then followed up with a text saying she got some small problems and will tell me about them later...
So <technically> she flaked the date for the second time.

 

[Greasy Pig]

Any time a woman has told me she's having "problems" or "needs to sort some shyt out", she was fvcking another dude.
You're on the brink of the friend zone OP. If she wants to talk about these "problems" with you, she's angling to enlist you as a guy she wants to hang out with but not to fvck.
So don't fall into the white knight trap of "being there for her" or giving her a shoulder to cry on.
If she tried to unload on you, just say: "Gee, that's not too good. Hey let's check out that new cafe across town!" Or some other BS.
You'll think that by listening to her whine that she'll want to jump in bed with you but the opposite is the truth.
Push lightly for the date and for fvcks sake, don't ask her "what's wrong?". Just carry on like a fun, charismatic and sexually charged man.

 

[wishyo]

Well, this particular case is different in terms of her fvcking someone else, but in terms of me getting into friend zone, you might be right. It is too early to think/overthink about this one as there had been no progress/interaction between us last 3 weeks, the only thing happened was that she texted me telling that she came back. I mean if a chick texts you first after 3 week break, it is a fvcking no brainer, excuse me here.
Yea, to be honest I dont really give 2 sh1ts about her fvcking problems, i will listen to her for some time, but then will switch topics. Being white knight sucks balls. In fact, I am not even sure she has some actual/serious problems this time (last time she had family drama, she came with her eyes red and sh1t. this is actually 2nd red flag, first was the fact she was dating 29 yr old dude when she was 16, this sh1t is ****ed up). To be honest, since our last date, first week I was kinda sad that left and wanted to see her and stuff, but now I dont really care about her.. I was thinking for a while now about texting her that I am very tired and that I wont be able to pick her up tomorrow. Pretty crazy how my oneitis turned into pretty much not caring/wanting her... I still do I guess, but if for example she would flake our tomorrow's date, i wont really even care. Guess that will change once i meet her again.

 

[wishyo]

Since she couldnt make it today and rescheduled our date on Sunday, I followed up with a text (waited until 10pm today(diff. time zone). She didnt text me first this time which I was actually expecting; I didnt expect her though to text me first after she came from vacations.
Below is our text conversation. ready for your criticism/suggestions
ME: Have you fixed your problems? Am I picking u up tomorrow?
HB: Yes, when?
ME: Idk, whenever I will wake up. Probably around 1pm
ME: It will be an exclusive trip
HB: What trip?
ME: I dont have anything to do this time at the city=exclusive. Ride=road trip
HB: Aaaah) Got you.
HB: Then... tomorrow whenever you will leave, text me.
ME: ok

For some reason I am "relatively" frustrated that she didnt text me today first... Good sign though is that she replied "yes, when?" pretty much instantly, i mean i got a text back in like 5 seconds. If the girl has any doubts/little or no interest, she wouldnt reply right away "yes" to a direct question where I asked her out... KISS (keep it simple, stupid) philosophy tells me it is a very good sign, what do you guys think? Fvcking instant text back "yes, when?"... was she waiting the whole day for my text lol? i mean if we assume she is "spinning" plates by herself or playing mindgames, she would take at least few minutes to think whether she really wants to spend a whole day with one dude...

 

[wishyo]

And another update,
she called recently asking if we cancel our date as she was tired/lazy, had to go wake up early tomorrow (uber retarded excuses, but I got the point).
I told her it's fine, she asked me if we can meet during the week, I told her that I have job interview on Wednesday, but then said I am not sure how it will work out and that we should talk later.
I will not get in touch with her.
Guess it's time to spin plates I am actually rather relieved than upset as there have been too much uncertainty/confusion with her.
I have been pretty optimistic about our dating process, but I will paint our picture in darker.


Let's assume I am this rich HB8.5(I think I shared her pics before, those guys probably would agree) and I can get any guy I want=>my sister told that there is one dude who recently came from America, let me see if I can put him on pedestal. She got in touch with, we meet few times, I made him drive my sexy ass around and pay for sh1t, had to do some kino with him, had to kiss him though, eww.
Then I went for vacations not giving sh1t about him, been spinning plates there, had no time to get in touch with him for three weeks. After I came back, I got bored one night and decided to check whether that American dude is still my b1tch so I texted him "hi, how are you? I am back." Then got a reply from him where he technically asked me out, I didnt flake him right away in case I wont find anything better to do this weekend
Kinda flaked his Friday offer and told him I can make it on both weekend days, flaked him on Saturday as I had some other dude whom I wanna put on pedestal, then this American dude texted me again on Saturday night asking about tomorrow... Told him "yes" but this morning decided that I rather stay at home or meet some other dude, so called and let that b1tch know I cant make it That's my darker version about our dating from her perspective.

All in all, I think she still rather has interest (other russian chick i had LTR with at some decided to breakup with me.. Later on her sister told me that she decided to do that so I would have more time for my professional career, she was thinking that she was harmful for me...), that's what my gut tells me, the way she looked at me sometimes during our dates was the way my LTR GF was looking. But w/e, facts are facts, haven't met this girl for three weeks and she flaked my last two attemps to take her out. My gut/assumptions can tell me whatever I want, facts are facts as I said before.
Time to spin other plates I guess and keep working on myself. Gotta break my old 260 lb benchpress record, i am at 230 though :/ will take probably few month

 

[MattTheW]

Not gonna say we told you so

But fella - don't over analyse, it won't do you much good tying to get into her head and reasoning....

Just start spinning plates and as you said, hitting the gym

 

[wishyo]

well, technically our last date was on 12th of July. Since that date I havent done anything besides some texting... You can't really say that I screwed up with my texts, they were simple and straightforward, no sings of being needy/desperate.
during our call, she asked about if we can meet during the week, i told her when I might have some which is Wednesday. I will text her probably on tuesday and tell her the time, this will be LAST try. She flakes=i delete her number. keeping it simple

 

[pyros]

see?

you went backwards, I mean, you went from:
date --> kiss --> makeout --> kiss --> nothing

when you should have gone:

date --> kiss --> makeout --> heavy makeout --> intimate touching --> sex


Anyway, I think it is not totally your fault. She just did not like you that much.
It happens.

 

[wishyo]

yea, I see. You might be correct in the end, maybe I was too indifferent/cold with her on the dates and probably should have shown more interest in her as a woman. Anyways, if she flaked me because of the fact that I didn't escalate, she doesnt really worth my time.
As for her liking me, check this thread, I did it few days after she left. http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=218048
Besides these details, I mean I could see the way she looked at me, my last GF would stare absolutely the same way, one just cant fake looks like that... It's a gut thing, mb my gut got outdated, who knows. Call me a fvcking retard, I still would bet that she has interest, it's all in her eyes.
I gave an example of my first ever GF and when she broke with me, during our breakup, she told me she doesnt love anymore, that she has someone and so on, but i still didnt believe it, i could see that it was not true in her eyes. Guess what, in few weeks we were back together and been together for more than a year. Right now I have the similar feeling, mb she is on her period and is not ready to spend the whole day walking with me, it's 90-95 degrees here.

Even now, look... We had that last let's assume sh1tty-boring museum date, i didnt escalate, she though that I am fvcking *****. OK, it makes sense. But since she came back from vacations, SHE was the one who texted me first and consequently agreed to go out. I mean even yesterday I got an INSTANT reply back with her agreeing to go out, today she flakes again, yet she told me on the phone that she wants to meet me during the week.
It just doesnt make any fvcking sense, if I dont like a girl that wants to go out with me, i wouldn't text her reminding that I came back.. ok, let's assume she wanted to tease her ego so she texted me, got an offer to go out (boom, that dude is really into me.), why the fvck would you text back telling you can make it on both days, then fvcking flake one day, but reschedule a date for the next day, then THE SAME FVCKING evening she confirmed that she is ready to go out tomorrow. I mean let's assume she is some fvcking manipulative evil b1tch, she kept me as a "backup" plan, I texted her about 11pm and I got AN INSTANT FVCKING reply back. No manipulative and uninterested b1tch would instanly reply to a date offer like this, it HAD to be certain in her stupid head that she wants to go out with me. Call me a stupid moron, i still think our dating process will work out. Everything will be solved on Wednesday anyways.
Gentlemen, you know the case. Place your bets on 1) whether she ACTUALLY go out with me on Wednesday 2) she will not turn her head once I will kiss her on that date 3) whether I will manage to escalate and make some intimate touching 4) I am fvcking afc moron who doesnt understand sh1t in this game
My bet 1) she will come 2) she will not turn her head away 3) not sure

 

[pyros]

you really like to overanalyse, dont you?

Haven't you heard the sentence: 'women do not make sense', or similar?

It is not because they just do not make sense, the thing is that when a woman is not that into you, everything becomes confusing, weird, etc.

If this chick was really into you, you would not be posting here, get it?

She more than likely has another dude lined up, this is why she is not that into you, and this is why she flakes, doesnt kiss you that much etc. It is this simple really.

Now, she can get rejected by this dude and then her interest in you will suddenly increase, or it may be the other way around and she will dissapear from your life or she'll say to be just friends.

In any case, my final advise for you is ...that when you are receiving mixed signals from any woman, she is not that interested, and if she is not that interested in you, you must be indifferent, do not invest, and separate yourself emotionally. See her just as a ****-buddy while you look for another woman that really digs you.

STOP overanalysing, you know the deal, she is not that into you and this is the source of all your problems, and for next girl, always escalate...

 

[wishyo]

you really like to overanalyse, dont you?

Haven't you heard the sentence: 'women do not make sense', or similar?

It is not because they just do not make sense, the thing is that when a woman is not that into you, everything becomes confusing, weird, etc.

If this chick was really into you, you would not be posting here, get it?

She more than likely has another dude lined up, this is why she is not that into you, and this is why she flakes, doesnt kiss you that much etc. It is this simple really.

Now, she can get rejected by this dude and then her interest in you will suddenly increase, or it may be the other way around and she will dissapear from your life or she'll say to be just friends.

In any case, my final advise for you is ...that when you are receiving mixed signals from any woman, she is not that interested, and if she is not that interested in you, you must be indifferent, do not invest, and separate yourself emotionally. See her just as a ****-buddy while you look for another woman that really digs you.

STOP overanalysing, you know the deal, she is not that into you and this is the source of all your problems, and for next girl, always escalate...

gotta use my leet nerd skills i went for magna *** laude instead of becoming dating pro.
yea, you are right. if she would have been indeed very interested/crazy about me, she would find time. it is indeed very fvcking simple, you are right.
As for her dating other dude instead, I doubt that. For example, she was online on that Russian social website pretty much the whole day (was away for few hours, from about 11:30am till 2 or so; yea, i like to stalk, yes, i know it's pretty miserable thing to do, spit on me).
What would YOU do now? would u completely ignore her offer to meet during the week/go NC until she would get in touch, or just throw her fvcking phone number away and get her out my head? Or would you text her this tuesday and give it a last shot?

 

[cordoncordon]

Earlier you posted a paragraph about her and what she is thinking about you. You put yourself in her shoes in other words. Do that again. Pretend you were her and she stumbled upon this site and she saw this 4 page thread, along with the other threads you made about her. What do you think she would think about that? She would probably be thinking to herself "wow, this guy is really really REALLY into me. Like he is stalking me he is so into me".

And here is the thing. Odds are of course that she has not seen this website and what has been written here, but she can see how much you are into her by the way you are acting. She knows it. She can taste it. She can feel it. This is doing nothing but driving her away. IF she had the same IL as you? Then fine, what you are doing wouldn't be THAT bad. But she doesn't, so all of this attention you are giving her is just driving away. Relationships are not supposed to be this hard....when they are good relationships. This is way way too much stress, time, and aggravation on your part. Just look at the time you have spent writing about it. I can only imagine how much time you have though about it.

Girls with high IL do not flake this often. Girls with high IL do not go 2 weeks on vacation without contacting you. This girl at first had some moderate interest in you, but it is fading fast. Cmon man, this is a 17 year old GIRL and yet you are letting her walk you around like she is a 33 year old professional attorney with 9 looks. Young girls like this don't want nice guys. They want MEN who take charge. You are not taking charge. They want men to act like men. They want men who see what they want sexually and who go after it. You are not doing this.

By all means ask this girl out again this week.....if you never want to see her again. But if you do still want to see this girl again, and if you have any hope at all, you have one shot. DO NOT contact her this week. In fact you need to go with the mindset that you will never contact her again. And then if, IF she contacts you and asks YOU out? Then and only then do you go out with her. And stop with these 8 hour marathons walking around museums and everything else. I mean, I wouldn't want to date you either if some guy was taking me to these boring places. Do something fun. Something a 17 year old girl would find fun. And escalate sexually. ASAP. Again this is if she contacts you. IF she doesn't? Forget about her.

Good luck.

 

[wishyo]

Earlier you posted a paragraph about her and what she is thinking about you. You put yourself in her shoes in other words. Do that again. Pretend you were her and she stumbled upon this site and she saw this 4 page thread, along with the other threads you made about her. What do you think she would think about that? She would probably be thinking to herself "wow, this guy is really really REALLY into me. Like he is stalking me he is so into me".

Absolutely no way, her english suck balls big time, no way she would google it. If she does, oh well "hi my darling, I am your b1tch."

And here is the thing. Odds are of course that she has not seen this website and what has been written here, but she can see how much you are into her by the way you are acting. She knows it. She can taste it. She can feel it. This is doing nothing but driving her away. IF she had the same IL as you? Then fine, what you are doing wouldn't be THAT bad. But she doesn't, so all of this attention you are giving her is just driving away. Relationships are not supposed to be this hard....when they are good relationships. This is way way too much stress, time, and aggravation on your part. Just look at the time you have spent writing about it. I can only imagine how much time you have though about it.

Spot on, indeed they are not suppose to be like this.
Yeah man, you are totally right. I am putting a lot of effort trying to hide my IL, but ye, she still probably can sense. But you can understand me too, she is pretty hot, I didnt have girls like this before. Plus also I have been in sick 24x7 nolife studying mode in college last two years, once I graduated I took a job working 80hours+ so I also had no life, at all. Since I moved back here, my life is more chill, so ye, this girl obviously got into my nerdy/needy analytical/math head, I think I can be excused for this, just once though!

Girls with high IL do not flake this often. Girls with high IL do not go 2 weeks on vacation without contacting you. This girl at first had some moderate interest in you, but it is fading fast. Cmon man, this is a 17 year old GIRL and yet you are letting her walk you around like she is a 33 year old professional attorney with 9 looks. Young girls like this don't want nice guys. They want MEN who take charge. You are not taking charge. They want men to act like men. They want men who see what they want sexually and who go after it. You are not doing this.

Well, as I mentioned before, I never really followed her up with random chit-chat talk texting talk so stopped texting me with her random b/s.
Bu you are right about IL, her IL is clearly not high by any means. You are spot on about a men who take a charge, on our last date she was always pretty much leading when we were walking in that goddamn museum, i was pretty much following her, at some point I wanted to go somewhere so I took a lead and she commented something "yea, let it be you who leads." Guess I screwed here, lesson learnt. This is actually weird, being pretty nerdy, I should have planned our date in every detail and lead her all the time, was too lazy for that. Will make an adjustment.

By all means ask this girl out again this week.....if you never want to see her again. But if you do still want to see this girl again, and if you have any hope at all, you have one shot. DO NOT contact her this week. In fact you need to go with the mindset that you will never contact her again. And then if, IF she contacts you and asks YOU out? Then and only then do you go out with her. And stop with these 8 hour marathons walking around museums and everything else. I mean, I wouldn't want to date you either if some guy was taking me to these boring places. Do something fun. Something a 17 year old girl would find fun. And escalate sexually. ASAP. Again this is if she contacts you. IF she doesn't? Forget about her.

Well, since I moved back to Russia recently, I know nothing about the city where I live and she knows that so she was taking a lead showing me the city. She wanted to go to that park and stop by museum, so we went there, she wanted to go to the zoo a date before, we went there... I
But you are right about not contacting her, I thought about this in the gym (working out helps to clear my brain, big time!) and came to a thought that 1) no fvcking way I would text her 2) even if she texts me asking me out, i should probably call her and tell what we guys discussed here, something like "it is not really working out, let's talk in few months once each of us would figure out what he wants."

Good luck.

Relationships are not supposed to be this hard....when they are good relationships. thanks for this, it is so true. This girl indeed drains too much from me.

 

[Greasy Pig]

I've been in your position OP and I agree, the relief you get from nexting a flaky and confusing woman is awesome!
By letting her go, you're freeing your mind and not analysing everything she does or doesn't do.
Move on, and if she contacts you, don't be over eager to ask her out again until you're sure she would crawl over broken glass to see you.

 

[pyros]

Well, I would wait for her to contact me, it does not matter if she asks you out or if she just texts you how you doing etc, in any case when she does, you ask her out and (if she does not contact you in a week, you text her, but this would mean very little interest):

You separete yourself emotionally from her.
You go to do SOMETHING FUN, it doesnt have to be super fun, but fun in general.
You do not spend more than 3 hours together.
You separete yourself emotionally from her.
You say hello to her with a small peak on the lips.
As the date progresses, you touch her shoulders, back, face, hair...then you give her another small kiss.
You separete yourself emotionally from her.
As the date progresses you make out a bit, caress her arm etc. and see how it goes.
You lead her. You dont have to be a dictator, but you lead in general, where you sit, where you eat, when you kiss, etc.
You separete yourself emotionally from her.
After the date, you wait at least a couple of days to text her again.
YOU TRY TO NOT OVERANALYSE, AND TRY NOT TO THINK about her all the time for God's sake.

P.S.
This may be impossible to do due to everything that happened, but you can try one last time.

 

[wishyo]

GP, easy to say, not that easy to let a chick let this go. You are totally right though, right now I would rather have a relief of her dumping me (thus, making it clear it’s over) than keep in playing this game whether she wants to meet me or not :/
Anyways, this week will be somewhat interesting one in terms of meeting new chicks. As I mentioned before, I took a finance job and working at a brokerage house, but I got an interesting offer from Big 4 Company which invited for a non-entry level job which is pretty cool. Passed three tests so far, gotta pass interviews which are generally not a big deal.
So dating related advantage of me taking that job is that the overall relative age in KPMG is pretty low so I will be working with some females of my age which is amazing since they also work a lot/overtime and in case I find a chick I like, the whole dating thing should go very easy as we both know how little of our free time we got and how valuable it it is… we just don’t have time for b/s mindgames.
As for my action plan with my current (or rather EX?) girl… I believe she was supposed to leave for another 2 week long vacation somewhere around mid August. So I believe the best thing to do even if she will ask me me out, is to tell her I made some plans and propose her to talk again after her vacations. Even if we assume that she will ask me out, meeting her once or two times before her vacations will be rather painful as she will awake all my feelings towards her and I will have to surpress it all for a while once again, then guess if she will text me/agree to go out. Fvck that, too much effort for nothing.