Trayvon Martin

[Who Dares Win]

Not sure if you're familiar with the established, undeniable facts of the case, but Zimmerman was charged with second degree murder (a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance). When both prosecution and defense had concluded their arguments, the judge ruled that the lesser included offense of manslaughter (a lack of intention to cause death but involving an intentional, or negligent, act leading to death) could be considered by the 6 woman jury (5 white, 1 black) and would be included in the jury instructions.

Zimmerman claimed justifiable homicide based on self defense.

Self-defense laws in the US, especially those regarding justifiable homicide, vary by state. Florida law, as of 2005, includes a "stand your ground" provision, under which a person, who reasonably fears death or great bodily harm (the ordinary deadly self-defense requirement) is relieved of the common-law requirement that one first attempt to retreat, if one can safely do so, before using deadly force.

In almost all states, such laws exempt people in their own homes; Florida's version extends the no-retreat doctrine to vehicles and public places. In at least 17 states, including Florida, there is no duty to retreat before using force.

After the shooting, media reports had indicated that Zimmerman would most likely use the "Stand Your Ground" provision in Florida's self-defense law. According to Durell Peaden, one of the sponsors of the Florida law, the law does not say that a person has a right to confront another: "When [Zimmerman] said 'I'm following him', he lost his defense." However, the same March 20, 2012, article goes on to state, "Peaden and Baxley said they didn't know all the facts of the case, so their interpretations of what happened could change if new information arises during the investigation."

According to lawyer David Kopel, if Martin first attacked Zimmerman, the claim of self-defense by Zimmerman would be valid under the usual self-defense laws that didn't include the "Stand your ground" law. On the other hand, if Zimmerman stalked and attacked Martin, the "Stand your ground" law would not protect Zimmerman from prosecution. In either case, the Florida "Stand your ground" law would be irrelevant.

Whatever the differing views, the "Stand Your Ground" law granted Zimmerman the right to a pretrial hearing where a judge could find Zimmerman immune from prosecution and dismiss the charges without going to trial. The defense would need to show through a preponderance of the evidence, i.e. show with more than 50% certainty, that Zimmerman thought he would be killed or seriously injured.

The trial began without Zimmerman asking for such a hearing, I think because the defense lawyer wanted to rely on peers judging Zimmerman's fate rather than a judge.

Ultimately, this was a sound defense strategy since the jury sided with Zimmerman and found him not guilty of all charges. I think they may have been swayed by the facts that

(1) Zimmerman had a broken nose and was covered in blood and bruises while Martin had no such bruises,

(2) several witnesses had reported seeing Martin on top of Zimmerman and punching him repeatedly "MMA style," and

(3) the testimony of the chief medical examiner, who stated that it was his opinion that Martin was shot in the chest while on top of Zimmerman.

Thank you very much for the details, all makes sense now and I can see why the verdict has been in his favour, cant really disagree about it.

Lets hope there will be no riots.

 

[Married Buried]

I may have missed this but was any of Zimmerman's blood on Martin? If he's supposed to have hit Zimmerman hard enough to draw blood you'd think there would be.

Was there ever any DNA evidence presented? What happened to DNA? It was supposed to be the next big thing.

 

[Fatal Jay]

On the cool, let me apologize to danger, and whoever else got offended by my comments that was truthful but yet slight racist... for the simple fact I sat back and really looked at both sides of the argument, you guys are right, there wasn't any evidence of Zimmerman wrong doing.

My culture my people, we are killing each other all over America, but yet get mad whenever a white happens to shoot a black, so we shouldn't get angry when the media plays with the black or whoever emotions. The media got me I must admit.

It made the primitive side of me come out, and I truly apologize for that.

sosuave is a brotherhood, lets not let things like this break that bond apart.

Peace.

 

[Justin Time]

you have a 17 year old 6'2 200 lb guy


...umm, He was 5'11 and 158lbs. That makes him smaller than me at 6'0 180lbs...whereas you made him sound like a quarterback.


This lynchmob that you guys have here... What about Trayvon standing his ground? Dead man tell no tales though. Zimmerman was the "f*cking punk". You don't chase someone, find yourself in an altercation, and then claim you were defending yourself...It just doesn't work".

That said, the Jury did their job with the story they were given and the charge based on the law. That law however, opens pandora's box.

 

[Stagger Lee]

There's no evidence Martin "stood his ground" or defended himself since there was no evidence Zimmerman laid a finger on Martin or threatened him in any way of substance. Martin ambushed and continually attacked a knocked down Zimmerman and was killed in self-defense. Martin went on the offense, not defense.

It's as simple as that and that's why there was an acquital. Some people can't see past race and understand the concept of evidence and what self-defense is and isn't.

 

[Justin Time]

It's as simple as that and that's why there was an acquital. Some people can't see past race and understand the concept of evidence and what self-defense is and isn't.

Got that part right.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Got that part right.

Yep like when someone makes up unlikely scenarios/conclusions that the evidence and common sense don't support at all.

And this type of thinking is why people like Martin often end up dead because they think it's right to attack others for trivial matters such as asking them a question or even looking at them the wrong way or some how "dissing" them.

 

[Justin Time]

Yep like when someone makes up unlikely scenarios/conclusions that the evidence and common sense don't support at all.

And this type of thinking is why people like Martin often end up dead because they think it's right to attack others for trivial matters such as asking them a question or even looking at them the wrong way or some how "dissing" them.

dude..seriously. It's over and done with. stfu and go get laid or something.

 

[Stagger Lee]

dude..seriously. It's over and done with. stfu and go get laid or something.

WTF, you're the one that first started re-arguing the issue again. How about following your own advice.

 

[fuko2007]

Al Sharpton is a racist.

 

[speed dawg]

This is shameful of the media. They don't want to help anyone, or fight for a just cause. They just want us all to hate eachother.

And on top of that, all the morons that are out there with signs and all don't realize how much of a ride they are being taken on. That goes for all sorts of activists.

 

[Jaylan]

Al Sharpton is a racist.

If your past posts are any indication, I guess you have company.

There's no evidence Martin "stood his ground" or defended himself since there was no evidence Zimmerman laid a finger on Martin or threatened him in any way of substance. Martin ambushed and continually attacked a knocked down Zimmerman and was killed in self-defense. Martin went on the offense, not defense.

It's as simple as that and that's why there was an acquital. Some people can't see past race and understand the concept of evidence and what self-defense is and isn't.

Theres no clear evidence of who really defended themselves initially. Thats why he got off...because of a crappy "shoot first" law, and because the only other witness is dead.

Such is life in Florida.

And on top of that, all the morons that are out there with signs and all don't realize how much of a ride they are being taken on. That goes for all sorts of activists.

Lol, just like morons who hold up signs online all the time trying to vilify minorities *cough cough*

At least people in the streets go out and do something about the things that matter to them. Guys like you whine online and do nothing to change the things you supposedly care about. As per usual.

 

[speed dawg]

At least people in the streets go out and do something about the things that matter to them.

Sorry, I'm too busy working.

 

[Jaylan]

^^^^

Exactly.

It wasn't the "shoot first" law that killed Trayvon, it was the fact that George felt his life was in serious danger. He literally had NO option other than to shoot.

Who struck who first, we will never know. We can only surmise based on testimony and character summarization.

Talk to some lawyers who know how Florida works.

Without the "shoot first" law, Zimmerman would have been convicted for manslaughter because he created the situation by getting out of his car to originally pursue Martin. "Shoot First" laws take away someones responsibility to avoid and/or retreat from dangerous situations.

Sorry, I'm too busy working.

Exactly. Just another online big mouth who doesnt believe enough in what he says or think to actually make a difference out there and bring about change.

Just like a lot of guys in the manosphere. Big talk, no action.

 

[SamTheHobit]

I guess blame the prosecutors for the murder charge. Man slaughter at best.

 

[fuko2007]

zimmerman followed trayvon...zimmerman had gun. Zimmerman never pulled gun untill he was being beating on the gorund by trayvon. Zimmerman fierd one shot. ONE. Not 2 not 3 not a whole mag. Just one. Wich means he was not out to kill ...he was defending himself, if it had been me i would have dropped the whole mag into him. But race aside i would not get my ass kicked by a 17 year old either.

 

[Jaylan]

If you start the altercation then you must retreat until you no longer can. Zimmerman's theory was that he could not retreat. The issue was the 5th amendment; whether Zimmerman cause the altercation itself beyond a reasonable doubt and whether he could have retreated beyond a reasonable doubt.

Youre making my point. Theres no duty to retreat with the "Shoot First" laws.

Because of these laws, Zimmerman was able to set events in motion that led to an altercation that caused someones death. If Zimmerman was trialed in a state without "shoot first" laws, his getting out of his car with a gun and following someone would have surely gotten him convicted. His story about looking at house addresses wouldnt have mattered because he initially left his vehicle to follow on foot and the 911 tapes reflect that.

Self defense wouldnt have mattered for him at that point because he ignored an opportunity to avoid danger. And Im sure a non-"shoot first" state would have recognized Martin being in reasonable fear and defending himself.

 

[Jaylan]

Actually, my point was that even if the duty to retreat applied, Zimmerman would still be found not-guilty.

I doubt that, considering how many non-"shoot first" states treat self defense claims in homicide cases. Self defense gets so much benefit of the doubt in places like Florida because of the "shoot first" law.

But agree to disagree I guess.

 

[Married Buried]

I am pretty sure Zimmerman did break the law when he followed Trayvon. There aren't stalking laws? What about when you are wandering around at night, police can charge you with "prowling".

 

[Bokanovsky]

The fact that this case has turned into such a circus shows everything that is wrong with America. Charges against the defendant brought as a result of political pressure? Check. "Special prosecutor" who only cares about advancing her own career and files a false affidavit? Check. Media trying its hardest to turn the case into a race issue by constantly referring to a mestizo hispanic man as "white"? Check. Race baiters like Al Sharpton taking advantage of a tragic situation to further their own agenda (and being assisted in doing so by the media and the government)? Check. Biased judge who had to be removed from the proceeding by the Court of Appeal? Check.

This case should have never went to trial. Even the cops who arrested Zimmerman and the prosecutor who was initially in charge of the case clearly saw that there was no evidence to convict Zimmerman. The man had head injuries and a broken nose. He was punched and had his head slammed against concrete. If he didn't shoot Martin, the latter would have been charged with aggravated assault or perhaps even manslaughter. You can't think of a more clear-cut case of a justifiable use of deadly force.