Training For All Round Body Functionality

[Drum&Bass]

Squat builds up inner thighs and parts of the Glutes. It stretches the hamstrings but offers little hamstring contraction and focuses a certain degree of stress on the quad (particularly Vastus Medialis).

What this means...Squatting will build up PARTS of your leg very well but not so great for other parts.

Sure someone can squat and ONLY squat until weaknesses and imbalances start appearing, but why neglect areas that you know are not getting adequate development ??

OPTION A: Squat for 6 months and develop giant strong inner thighs and glutes while the hamstring and quads lag. When you finally hit a plateau you start working on the areas that were neglected from ONLY doing compound movements (setting you back a few months to play catch up).

OPTION B For 6 months you, Squat and develop your inner thighs and glutes. Include hamstring curls and/or glute ham raises to develop your hamstring contraction ability since a squat isn't going to do it. Include sissy squats and leg raises to develop your quad muscles, particularly the ones that are not emphasized when squatting. Work on unilateral leg exercises to build up leg strength to an even greater degree (without unequal distribution of weight when doing bilateral training).

At the end of 6 months how much further along will the person doing OPTION B compare to the person doing OPTION A ?

 

[cuzza]

Exactly.

The human body can overcome a frighteningly large amount of workload. Overtraining is blown ridiculously out of proportion. Last week I trained my back three times - obviously performance was slightly down on the second and third day. Overall though, I increased the level of stress placed on the muscle and increased my WORK CAPACITY. One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was only training muscles once per week, when my body (and nearly everybody elses I'd say) can handle more than that.

It's about your ability to recover. If you're eating enough, you should be able to recover from most SENSIBLE workouts. Obviously I'm not advocating squatting or deadlifting three times a week, as they are very CNS intensive exercises, but for nearly all the rest, I say go for it.

 

[Kerpal]

D&B, he squats in the 200s. If he was squatting in the 400s and actually had the experience to identify his weak areas etc. you would have a point. BTW, I'd like to see proof that squats cause the quads & hamstrings to lag. Assuming we're talking FULL squats here (top of thigh at hip joint below top of knee). You've made a lot of logically fallacious arguments and said a lot of things in this thread that make no sense, for example:

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Funny, for some reason my big lifts keep increasing without isolating my biceps, forearms, quads, hamstrings, etc. Maybe once I'm an advanced lifter I will have to worry more about assistance work, but right now I'm almost twice as strong as the OP and my big lifts are still increasing simply by doing the big lifts. So he's got quite a while to go before he needs to start worrying about isolation exercises.

Also, what makes you so much more qualified than everyone else here? You've been talking a lot of **** about other peoples' credentials but I haven't heard anything about yours. Same with Carlitosway, who has something like a 365 1RM deadlift yet talks a lot of **** about other posters and their strength training methods

 

[J. Darko]

- A guy who doesn't squat 3 times is bodyweight will not have to deal with muscle imbalances yet.
- Option B will result in a weaker squat after 6 months, due to energy spend on isolation exercises that could've been spend on the squat.
- Squatting and deadlifting three times a week will result in the fastest progress on these lifts.
- Overtraining will be an issue if more isolation exercises are added while squatting and deadlifting three times a week.
- Isolation exercises will send a conflicting signal to the CNS. While squatting and deadlifting makes the CNS more efficient at moving the body as a whole, isolation exercises will tear down that efficiency by teaching the body to move parts whil being stabilized by an external source.
- Isolation exercises, therefore, are like medicine. You take your medicine when your body is sick, not before the body is sick and not after the body is sick.



Jim Wendler, Dave Tate, Louie Simmons, Joe Defranco, Christian Thibaudeau, Mark Rippetoe, Glenn Pendlay, Bill Starr, Layne Norton, Stephen Korte, Lyle McDonals, Matt Kroc, Uncle Sam, Best Friend, That One Huge Guy In The Gym and Your Mom...

...they all post messages, create video's and write books telling you all kinds of stuff about how they train, about how others train, about how you should train, NOT because they care how you look, NOT because they care how you will look, NOT because they want to share their knowledge, wisdom and experience with you, but because THEY WANT TO EARN A LIVING OVER YOUR DEAD BODY. Don't listen to them. Training is not rocket science. Just practice something a lot and you will become good at it.

 

[cuzza]

Guy A does only compound exercises with no direct arm work. Guy B does the same compound exercises with direct arm work.

Who has bigger arms?
It's not even a question.

I bought all this 'no need in doing curls' crap for far too long. Huge mistake. Guys with big arms do direct arm work - simple as. The argument of 'I've never seen anyone with a 400 pound deadlift who's got small arms' is rubbish; A - the majority of those people STILL do curls, and B - if they didn't, they'd have BETTER arms if they did.

 

[Kerpal]

Red herring. The OP's goal is not big arms. When I discuss training I'm not talking about bodybuilding and never have been, I have no interest in that.

 

[cuzza]

He will also have stronger arms.

 

[Kerpal]

Pullups (a compound exercise) would be a better choice than curls or whatever for building arm strength.

 

[cuzza]

Yep, but pullups and curls would be a better choice than just pullups for building arm strength.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ J. Darko. I don't agree with everything you said (in your last post) but your thinking in the right direction sort of*.

I give advice based on my experience. My full time business (that I own) is a strength and conditioning instruction/coaching (what ever you want to call it). I've been training all types of people for years. Dave Tate, Wendler and all those other guys give advice NOT to be taken as an absolute but to be used as tools. Its up to the individual to test out which tools will work best for him or her.

The reality is NONE of us knows what will work best for the OP. All we can do is theorize and guess.

That is why at the very BEGINNING of this thread I said the OP just needs to try the program that interested him !!! it doesn't matter whether he squats 405 in 2 years or 4 years. The most important thing is he is starting something that will hopefully continue on through out his life. It will be up to him to use common sense and learn whats best for him.

I don't know HOW or WHY the thread turned into this but like I said before the start of all the arguing...

OP doesn't need help. He found a program he wanted to use. At that point he doesnt need help with anything. All he needs to do is stick with his choice and develop some kind of foundation to work from.

 

[J. Darko]

@ J. Darko. I don't agree with everything you said (in your last post) but your thinking in the right direction sort of*.

I give advice based on my experience. My full time business (that I own) is a strength and conditioning instruction/coaching (what ever you want to call it). I've been training all types of people for years. Dave Tate, Wendler and all those other guys give advice NOT to be taken as an absolute but to be used as tools. Its up to the individual to test out which tools will work best for him or her.

The reality is NONE of us knows what will work best for the OP. All we can do is theorize and guess.

That is why at the very BEGINNING of this thread I said the OP just needs to try the program that interested him !!! it doesn't matter whether he squats 405 in 2 years or 4 years. The most important thing is he is starting something that will hopefully continue on through out his life. It will be up to him to use common sense and learn whats best for him.

I don't know HOW or WHY the thread turned into this but like I said before the start of all the arguing...

OP doesn't need help. He found a program he wanted to use. At that point he doesnt need help with anything. All he needs to do is stick with his choice and develop some kind of foundation to work from.

Yeah lets stop arguing and let the OP just lift heavy weights a lot.

 

[Matt281]

@ Matt, I just read your vagina monologue of a workout journal..

dude... planks, moby d!ck and 55 rep body weight squats, seriously ??

I KNEW you were a keyboard jockey...Instead of arguing and thinking you know stuff based off of some internet articles do yourself a favor, read my journal, follow my format and actually get some results.

When ever I need some comic relief I'll be sure to read your next "LIFESTYLE" journal entry.

When your deadlifting over 500lbs for reps, squatting over 500, benching AT LEAST 315 and you can box jump 4ft or more at a bodyweight of around 185 come see me..

That goes for all the other keyboard jockeys in this thread thinking you know anything from a limited amount of experience. I can always spot a clueless rookie when their first bit of advice to someone is follow some weak incomplete rippetoe program.

Sigh I didn't have access to a gym...lol

The term keyboard jockey has virtually no application here. Lifting weights isn't a skill like basketball or pickup. Have I trained thousands of people over 20 years? No, but I've read many books, studies and articles by people who have, and I find them much more credible than you.

These aren't my ideas I'm writing about, they are theirs.

 

[Kerpal]

I'd still like to see some kind of source that squats overdevelop the inner thigh & glutes and cause the hamstrings & quads to lag.

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Kerpal you dont need a source for anything, your smart enough to understand the point i was trying to make.

 

[Kerpal]

So there's no source behind that assertion?

 

[Drum&Bass]

assertion of what ?

 

[CarlitosWay]

I'd still like to see some kind of source that squats overdevelop the inner thigh & glutes and cause the hamstrings & quads to lag.

You truly must be naive. He was merely setting an example of what happens for some people. No one is exactly the same when it comes to body mechanics. One person could get decent overall leg development from squatting, the next guy not so much. Nice red herring (haha yes I just said that) bringing in my numbers. Also a logical fallacy saying I bash peoples strength training routines. When I haven't. I've only criticized the biased, close minded and at times dogmatic thoughts I've seen here many times.

and

I could shove this in your face; I incline barbell press for reps what you pretty much are flat benching , whilst being much, much lighter.


LOL@ J. Darko bashing Drum&Bass. The guys lifts and numbers in his log speak for himself. He's one of the few who actually has vids and you're in here rambling about a 315/320 lb squat and ankle injuries? I'm squatting that right now and I feel it's petty weight when my buddies are hitting 405 + and deadlifting 600+ lbs for reps like no ones business. Oh they always did some isolation work alongside their main lifts too through out their years training OH NOOOO!!!?! Don't even think one of them has touched a full body routine like rippetoes. Some of them don't even know who Mark Rippetoe is.

 

[Kerpal]

You truly must be naive. He was merely setting an example of what happens for some people. No one is exactly the same when it comes to body mechanics.

That's not what D&B said. Here's the exact quote, I will repost it since I know he likes to go back and edit his posts when people call him out on stuff:

Squat builds up inner thighs and parts of the Glutes. It stretches the hamstrings but offers little hamstring contraction and focuses a certain degree of stress on the quad (particularly Vastus Medialis).

What this means...Squatting will build up PARTS of your leg very well but not so great for other parts.

Sure someone can squat and ONLY squat until weaknesses and imbalances start appearing, but why neglect areas that you know are not getting adequate development ??

OPTION A: Squat for 6 months and develop giant strong inner thighs and glutes while the hamstring and quads lag. When you finally hit a plateau you start working on the areas that were neglected from ONLY doing compound movements (setting you back a few months to play catch up).

OPTION B For 6 months you, Squat and develop your inner thighs and glutes. Include hamstring curls and/or glute ham raises to develop your hamstring contraction ability since a squat isn't going to do it. Include sissy squats and leg raises to develop your quad muscles, particularly the ones that are not emphasized when squatting. Work on unilateral leg exercises to build up leg strength to an even greater degree (without unequal distribution of weight when doing bilateral training).

At the end of 6 months how much further along will the person doing OPTION B compare to the person doing OPTION A ?

He's clearly making a general assertion here. Nowhere does he say anything like "This MAY happen depending on your individual body mechanics". I'd like to either see a source for this or see D&B retract this assertion.

Nice red herring (haha yes I just said that) bringing in my numbers. Also a logical fallacy saying I bash peoples strength training routines. When I haven't. I've only criticized the biased, close minded and at times dogmatic thoughts I've seen here many times.

No, this is not a red herring because it actually applies to the topic at hand. The guy wants to train for general athleticism, not oiling himself up and posing in a thong on a stage in front of other men (bodybuilding), yet you tell people who want to get strong that they should train like bodybuilders and constantly criticize people who recommend true strength training programs. Then you train like a bodybuilder and can only deadlift 365 lbs. So I think it's very relevant to the discussion.

Which logical fallacy did I make by pointing out your criticism of other peoples' training methods? Do you even know what a logical fallacy is?

I could shove this in your face; I incline barbell press for reps what you pretty much are flat benching , whilst being much, much lighter.

I train for strength, which means moving heavy **** around in a realistic manner. How often outside of a gym do you lie on your back and push a weight with just your arms? The true universal tests of strength are the deadlift and to a lesser extent the squat. I don't care much about the bench press. If I did, I would train it more seriously and be much stronger at it.

Never in my life while actually moving heavy **** outside of a gym have I said to myself, "Oh man, I wish I had a stronger bench press, that would really help me now" :crackup: When me and two other guys moved a piano into a 3rd floor apartment with no elevator, we didn't lie on our backs and push the piano up the stairs with our arms. We essentially squatted/deadlifted it up the stairs. So you can shove your bench press in my face all you want, we'll see who does a better job when it comes time to actually move something heavy around.

 

[Jitterbug]

Squat doesn't develop your quads and hammies? Wow, that's news to me.

That'd explain the lack of quad development on Olympic weightlifters: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1106/1410872951_27bc2c3002.jpg

Those poor guys don't have access to any leg press machine or hamstring curls, therefore they have tiny legs, but huge glutes and inner thighs... Because all they do is squatting 3 times a day.

They also have a weak back because they don't do bicep curls.

 

[CarlitosWay]

Squat doesn't develop your quads and hammies? Wow, that's news to me.

That'd explain the lack of quad development on Olympic weightlifters: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1106/1410872951_27bc2c3002.jpg

Those poor guys don't have access to any leg press machine or hamstring curls, therefore they have tiny legs, but huge glutes and inner thighs... Because all they do is squatting 3 times a day.

They also have a weak back because they don't do bicep curls.

lol I never thought D&B's post was going to be taken out of context like this. It is all pretty damn funny, just to say the least.