Training For All Round Body Functionality

[Matt281]

Information changes constantly especially in the fitness field. What was valid 10 years ago is rarely used today however we need specifics because talking in generalities will get us no where.

also...unless you have actual experience training people for a minimum of at least 5 years there is very little that you can open my eyes to that i already haven't read, tested or tried myself.

but lets see you dig up these studies, professor.

D.R. Swanson, "Atrial Fibrillation in Athletes: Implicity Literature-Based Connection Suggests that Overtraining and Subsequent Inflammation May Be a Contributing Mechanism." Medical Hypotheses 66, no. 6 (2006) 1085-92.

J.E. Graves, et al., "Effects of Reduced Training Frequency on Muscular Strength," International Journal of Sports Medicine 9, no. 5 (1998): 315-19

R. N. Carpinelli and R.M. Otto, "STrength Training: Single Versus Multiple Sets, " Sports Medicine 26, no. 2 (1998): 73-84

P.M. Clarkson and K. Nosaka, "Muscle Function After Exercise Induced Muscle Damage and Rapid Adaptaion," Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 24, no. 5 (1992): 512-20

P.M. Clarkson and I. Tremblay, "Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage, Repair and Adaptaion in Humans," Journal of Applied Physiology 65, no. 1 (1998) 1-6

D.R. Taafe, C. Duret, S. Wheeler, and R. Marcus, "Once-Weekly Resistance Exercise Improves Muscle Strength and Neuromuscular Perforance in Older Adults," Journal of the American Geriatric Society, 47, no. 10 (1999): 1208-14

Have fun

 

[Carpe.Diem]

Well, you put forward a good argument Kerpal, and I've now started Rippetoe's.

Had my first day of it yesterday and I've gotta say it felt great despite me going a little light on the squats (90kg) because my legs were killing from 2 days previously (lower body day on DeFranco's). Strangely they feel fine now... no aching at all.

Thanks to everyone who replied,

CD

 

[Drum&Bass]

@ Matt, I just read your vagina monologue of a workout journal..

dude... planks, moby d!ck and 55 rep body weight squats, seriously ??

I KNEW you were a keyboard jockey...Instead of arguing and thinking you know stuff based off of some internet articles do yourself a favor, read my journal, follow my format and actually get some results.

When ever I need some comic relief I'll be sure to read your next "LIFESTYLE" journal entry.

When your deadlifting over 500lbs for reps, squatting over 500, benching AT LEAST 315 and you can box jump 4ft or more at a bodyweight of around 185 come see me..


That goes for all the other keyboard jockeys in this thread thinking you know anything from a limited amount of experience. I can always spot a clueless rookie when their first bit of advice to someone is follow some weak incomplete rippetoe program.

 

[Kerpal]

^ :crackup:

 

[J. Darko]

At first his post was funny, then it became hilarious. Rippetoes does focus on the squat, the bench and the deadlift. It's utterly pointless mess with your recovery with other exercises like curls, reverse curls, wrist curls, toe curls, hanging upside down super duper ultra calf raises to the max and similar exercises supported by magazines, bodybuilding forums and steroid users who get big anyway as long as they do something, anything. So I don't quite understand why a Rippetoe program is weak and incomplete, unless you are a flaming homosexual who posts on T nation and sucks dck for free biotest supplements.


To the topic openener. Just practice the big lifts as much as you can take and make sure you are progressing regularly. At first you should aim to add weight every workout. Then, when this gets hard, use light days regularly, meaning you schedule to train with only a few sets and reps, with half of your max weight in order to recover from harder workouts.

 

[Drum&Bass]

So I don't quite understand why a Rippetoe program is weak and incomplete

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.

 

[Kerpal]

I don't recall anyone saying that ALL you need to do EVER is a basic program like SS. But it is the best program for BEGINNERS. Hence the name STARTING Strength. The vast majority of posters and lurkers here are BEGINNERS. There is no need for a beginner to be doing isolation exercises and worrying about plateaus when they don't even squat 1.5 X bodyweight yet. Don't make things more complicated than they need to be, you just end up wasting time.

 

[J. Darko]

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.

That's right. I'm a rookie. I only squat 140 Kg. That's only 2.1 times my bodyweight. But I managed to do so without any isolation work and I will not need any isolation work until a muscular weakness comes up. That may happen around the time I squat 200 kg and by that time, I will be as strong as hell already. Furthermore, 200 Kg will be around 3 times my bodyweight and that means that by that time, I will be close to my genetic limit anyway. In the mean time, I'm not wasting recovery with isolation work that I don't need and prevents me from squatting more weight.

 

[CarlitosWay]

OP I would stick with defrancos. He uses it with all sorts of people, beginners, top ranked athletes and even girls. If they can make big gains in size and strength you can too. This thread has some real laughable posts.

WS4SB was made for athletes, if you're interested in getting better for a sport, it works great. His routine makes sense. Mixing up higher rep work with real heavy strength training, is the way to go. He includes things like scapulae work and has a huge variety of exercises to choose from. So you find what works best for you and experiment.

Starting strength is well for a guy who hasn't even set foot in a gym and doesn't know **** and just needs something to do 3 times a week. I'd rather see someone in the gym 4-5 times a week. Maybe a sprint session once a week throw in.

Yet I'll vouch for this upper/lower body split as it focuses on progression. Which should be the core of any routine no matter what.

EDIT: just reread your original post OP and yeah sounds like you want to stay busy a good amount of the week. Defrancos routine has you covered. His routine plus some conditioning work and some mobility sessions a few times a week + foam rolling is great (I highly recommend Eric Cressey's magnificent mobility). Cressey also has great routines. (http://showandgotraining.com)

 

[CarlitosWay]

Of course you don't, your a rookie...rookies think doing the biggest exercises to get the "most bang for your buck" is an absolute way to train.

You do realize benching, squatting and deadlifting while being compound exercises build specific areas of the body better than others....but did you ever think about any supporting muscles that don't receive as much intensity as prime moving muscles during compounds ??

You do realize in order for your bench to go up you have to build up your arms...and you do realize that triceps wont grow unless you balance them out with equally developed biceps and forearms...you do realize that if your squatting correctly it will build up your inner thighs but if you don't do any direct quad and hamstring work you will plateau, You do realize if you have WEAK biceps your back development will suffer for that.

Your probably one of those guys that thinks its not important to train certain muscles if you focus on doing big stuff all the time...


and for the love of god....will you elite keyboardists stop thinking you know anything about what someones nervous system can and can't handle during workouts.

Just read this bud and it's gold, so eloquently put. There's a huge bias toward some things in this forum. Some people need to step out of their little snow globes.

 

[J. Darko]

OP I would stick with defrancos. He uses it with all sorts of people, beginners, top ranked athletes and even girls. If they can make big gains in size and strength you can too. This thread has some real laughable posts.

WS4SB was made for athletes, if you're interested in getting better for a sport, it works great. His routine makes sense. Mixing up higher rep work with real heavy strength training, is the way to go. He includes things like scapulae work and has a huge variety of exercises to choose from. So you find what works best for you and experiment.

Starting strength is well for a guy who hasn't even set foot in a gym and doesn't know **** and just needs something to do 3 times a week. I'd rather see someone in the gym 4-5 times a week. Maybe a sprint session once a week throw in.

Yet I'll vouch for this upper/lower body split as it focuses on progression. Which should be the core of any routine no matter what.

EDIT: just reread your original post OP and yeah sounds like you want to stay busy a good amount of the week. Defrancos routine has you covered. His routine plus some conditioning work and some mobility sessions a few times a week + foam rolling is great (I highly recommend Eric Cressey's magnificent mobility). Cressey also has great routines. (http://showandgotraining.com)

That's strange...you advocate high frequency training, while WS4SB let's you train your upperbody and lower body only 2 times a week. You could also train 3 times a week while training all bodyparts 3 times a week. That's more training, in less time, with more recovery...

Of course, WS4SB let's you do more exercises per body part, totally true. But in the end, it's progression that counts. In order to gainmore muscle mass, you will have to add more weight, sets or reps. That's a bit difficult to do on 100 exercises at the same time.

 

[cuzza]

DeFranco is one of the most widely respected coaches on the planet, and WS4SB is classed as one of the best programs. It's held in the same esteem as programs such as Starting Strength.

Personally, I'd use none of them. The volume is far too low for my liking, and the exercise selection leave gaps in your physique. For example, my arms didn't grow until I regularly started doing a lot of direct arm work, nor did my shoulders until I started doing a lot of lateral raises.

There is no holy grail of programs. As long as you're gaining strength all the time and eating a lot of food, you will gain muscle. Simple as. High intensity, high food intake = growth.

 

[Fuglydude]

DeFranco is one of the most widely respected coaches on the planet, and WS4SB is classed as one of the best programs. It's held in the same esteem as programs such as Starting Strength.

Personally, I'd use none of them. The volume is far too low for my liking, and the exercise selection leave gaps in your physique. For example, my arms didn't grow until I regularly started doing a lot of direct arm work, nor did my shoulders until I started doing a lot of lateral raises.

There is no holy grail of programs. As long as you're gaining strength all the time and eating a lot of food, you will gain muscle. Simple as. High intensity, high food intake = growth.

This is good advice... Everyone's metabolism is unique. You need to figure out what combination of diet, training program, supplements help you achieve your goals.

 

[Kerpal]

Yeah but that takes a lot of time. It makes a lot more sense for the trainee simply to get started with a basic beginner's program that works for everyone, and eventually they'll figure all that stuff out.

 

[thedude4242]

one thing I noticed is I have not used weights in a long time. the best thing to do is do exercises that are not so much for gaining muscle but do exercises that work on your athleticism. use bands. they got the bodylastics bands that have enough resistance to give you a good workout and I get better results with them than weights. I work an athleticism now. strength train also, but dont be involved in doing these few movements with as much weight as you can. do all your workouts in the gym anymore to me is boring.

 

[CarlitosWay]

That's strange...you advocate high frequency training, while WS4SB let's you train your upperbody and lower body only 2 times a week. You could also train 3 times a week while training all bodyparts 3 times a week. That's more training, in less time, with more recovery...

Of course, WS4SB let's you do more exercises per body part, totally true. But in the end, it's progression that counts. In order to gainmore muscle mass, you will have to add more weight, sets or reps. That's a bit difficult to do on 100 exercises at the same time.

To me training full body 3 times a week isn't the best option for bringing up your physique in balanced strength and size from top to bottom.; essentially cramming 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag and severly limiting choices in exercise selection and also limiting stimulation of certain muscle groups. Especially if one naturally has certain muscle groups that tend to take over on some exercises.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Don't even waste your time Carlito. J. Darko, a random 154lb kid (who barely weighs more than a girl) knows more about fitness than Joe Defranco and other guys like, you and I, who actually train with people that have years of experience and ARE ALREADY where we would (all) like to be.

 

[EFFORT]

What I'm looking to do is go more for functionality; I want strength, fitness, speed, agility and to be generally healthier.

Based on your goals I'd go with defranco

http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/c4743e6724f960725612/joe-defranco-strong-the-movie

 

[Kerpal]

For ****'s sake, a guy who squats in the 200s doesn't even KNOW yet if he has "muscle groups that take over" or needs to worry about "supporting muscles". Stop making things more complicated than they need to be.

 

[J. Darko]

To me training full body 3 times a week isn't the best option for bringing up your physique in balanced strength and size from top to bottom.; essentially cramming 10 lbs of **** in a 5 lb bag and severly limiting choices in exercise selection and also limiting stimulation of certain muscle groups. Especially if one naturally has certain muscle groups that tend to take over on some exercises.

That's true. My goal isn't balanced physique and to be honest, I don't think that's the goal of most guys either. Most guys just want a bunch of muscle mass, not perfect symmetry. This guy in specific doesn't even want that, he wants to be an athlete and in that case isolation exercies are going to suck, because they don't teach you to use your whole body in an explosive way.

Drum&Bass
Don't give up your day job. You can't visit haunted houses for a living because your posts prove that you are not psychic.
But let's cut the bullsht and let's be honest. I am a 150 lbs guy, yes. I'm a 150 lbs guy who squatted 310 lbs. Then I broke my ankle. Then half a year later I squatted 310 lbs again. Then I ruptured the muscles in my ankle. Now I squat 310 lbs again for reps. That's only slightly below your max squat while I'm much lighter than you which makes me relatively stronger and thus better in a competition. Also, your power clean of 135 lbs and bench press of 225 lbs are considered beginner stats by the strength community. Then there's also the fact that you are a 30 year old man.

In short, you are all talk and you have nothing to show for. You'd better keep your keyboard jocking mouth shut.