Tom Leykis

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Str8up, I had a listen Tom Leykis. Only one podcast though. I was wondering what are his views on how a man and a woman are supposed to raise a child. Do they live together ? Is his message just for single guys until they want to have children and hence the partners only live together once this decision has been made. Cheers

 

[Hooligan Harry]

Ya look I hope so.Suggesting that raising a child from separate homes is a good thing is beyond ridiculous. Some people want a family and children.

Is it AFC now to have a family and children? Who knows with all the PUA community defence mechanisms these days.

 

[STR8UP]

Is it AFC now to have a family and children? Who knows with all the PUA community defence mechanisms these days.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a family and children, but when you factor in your chances of having a happy, successful marriage it starts to look more and more like a foolish thing to do.

From what I gather Leykis basically says that marriage for a man is a BAD idea. If you want to be in a relationship when you are older, fine. If you want to have kids, fine. Just don't sign away your life away and hope that you end up one of the very few who actually make it work and work well.

His stance is that you can do anything unmarried that you can do married, and as such there is no reason for a man to expose himself to the risks that are involved with marriage today.

 

[KontrollerX]

His advice is for young men as well as old men and like Str8up already said Tom firmly believes that no man should ever get married as it only benefits a woman as it allows her to take half your earnings should things turn bad and the institution of marriage by its very nature is a cold loveless corporation and government contract.

Through social conditioning we've been taught this is the only way to fully express our love for another person but its just a load of b.s.

Just keep seeing that other person if you love them don't sign your life and money away to them.

Tom Leykis gives many messages against what social conditioning would have us do automatically which helps wake men both young and old up to a new realization which is its a perfectly valid alternative lifestyle to live to never get married or get into relationships and never have children.

All three things slow down your progress in life as well takes away your personal freedom ie time alone to rest, reflect, dream, create, travel, have a variety of women, etc.

It slows down and many times often outright stops the persuit of your dreams in life and also if things turn badly in a marriage you have to work even harder at your job or jobs to earn as much of your stolen money back as possible that wifey was awarded by the judge in the divorce settlement.

Leykis also points out that prenups aren't always airtight and a woman you've married can still rob you blind even if you had one before getting married to her depending on what state you live in and the laws you live in under it.

So yes once again Tom Leykis's advice is for guys aged 18-75 and hell even older as its for basically every guy that is still able to attract women.

Its not just advice for the young man but every man.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I've listened to Leykis for 8 years now. When I lived on the west coast I picked him up on the drive home all the time, but since Florida talk radio is flooded with right-wing blowholes I have to subscribe to the podcasts now.

I agree with about 90% of Tom's doctrine. I think a lot of what he goes into has a lot of merit to it, but he's also an entertainment show so his delivery has to shock in order to draw audience reaction and I think that's where a most of people get turned off to him - particularly AFCs who are firmly plugged into the Matrix. I think it's a pity in some respects too because he really only brushes the surface of the psychological and sociological aspects of topics that otherwise intelligent people would really be engaged by and could benefit from. His audience is much more intellectual than gives most of them credit for, but the ones who'd benefit most from a radio host even discussing the topics he does are the first to call him a misogynist / chauvinist / sexist pig. In my own dealings with AFCs I find that most are fairly good thinkers and tend to be more intellectual, but they adamantly refuse unplugging.

I hold different spiritual views with Tom to be sure, but one thing I do think he's mistaken on is his undervaluing physical attractiveness and his overemphasizing personal wealth as the best means of attracting women. From a power dynamics POV I'd agree, but from a genuine desire dynamic I disagree. For all of Tom's financial resources he can't buy a woman's genuine desire.

Tom's message about marriage is pretty clear, but he's not anti-marriage if you want to have children. He consistently states that a good marriage (one where a man controls the frame) is the best environment for raising children. In fact this is one reason he belabors the ill effects of single mothers and the social acceptability of raising sons without strong masculine fathers. However, other than child rearing, there is no implicit benefit in marriage that a man cannot enjoy outside of marriage, and men should never expect a woman to appreciate the sacrifices he must make in order to commit to marriage.

 

[azanon]

However, other than child rearing, there is no implicit benefit in marriage that a man cannot enjoy outside of marriage, and men should never expect a woman to appreciate the sacrifices he must make in order to commit to marriage.

By a long shot, this is the most misinformed thing taught at Sosuave.

I understand and appreciate your concern about not having these young men either rush into a marriage, or to make the mistake of having marriage as a goal as they go about their gaming. Sometimes I have a grass-is-greener fantasy myself and would like the opportunity to be sexually reckless again. But I don't agree with your approach of claiming that marriage is actually worse for men (with the exception of child rearing) as a means to prevent this when even a cursory review of the research done on this topic would show that marriage is far more often beneficial than it is not for both partners.

One can have opinions on this topic all day long. Its simply not going to change the overwhelming research done on the subject. Anyone with novice google skills can confirm which way the research leans.

Folks, gays are fighting very hard for marriage rights for a reason. I have a suspicion that its because there are benefits to marriage.

 

[slaog]

I think many marriages fail these days is because of the expectations that people have going into them thanks to the media/matrix.


I see old couples who are very happy togethar. They're not happy because of their partners good looks but because they enjoy each others company and have enjoyed living with their partner.


If the man decided in his youth that he didn't want to get married and wanted to sleep around and have fun then he would have had a wild time but how would he have ended up? And during the wild years would he have been happy sleeping around? No because just like drugs, after a while the great feeling fades and it becomes meaningless.

 

[KontrollerX]

"Folks, gays are fighting very hard for marriage rights for a reason. I have a suspicion that its because there are benefits to marriage."

They want the same rights as everyone else has which they should have.

Thats basically it but I'm sure there are also many gay people that want the financial payday of marriage should it end or their spouse dies but Tom always points out that there shouldn't be a payday for either person when it comes to marriage.

You keep your money and your spouse keeps their money and it only transfers into the other's hands through a will or you decide to give them some of it while you are living.

Tom doesn't believe in the provider marriage where one person sits home while the other does all the work and money making and despite his marriage and money views he still preaches that men need to be as Rollo said in control of the frame which is understandable as his show is geared towards giving advice that would benefit men the most and not women and being in control of the frame does benefit us men the most.

Not sure how frame control would work with gay people but I think if Tom was giving them advice or his opinion on how marriage should be he'd say once again that both people should be working and supporting themselves and keeping their own money.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Of course gays are fighting hard for marriage, they've never had the benefit of knowing any better.

AZANON, we've debated this on occasion, and honestly I don't think it has anything so much to do with sexual opportunism as it does with the limitations the institution of marriage requires. It's easy to think "well, guys just want to get off with as many women as they can and marriage hinders that for them, therefore it's a selfish sacrifice", and while that's true, there's a lot more to it than just that. If I'm clinically sterile and cannot have children, why should I get married? What benefit is there for me that I can't get remaining single?

I realize there a lot of touchy-feely studies touting the mental, health, financial benefits of marriage, but every one of these presupposes, first a healthy marriage, and second that these same benefits couldn't be enjoyed outside of marriage were marriage not an option to the individual. And still, I wont deny that there aren't some aspects of marriage that are very beneficial, but the studies are biased in favor of being married due to it being a social norm. How many studies are done touting the benefits of remaining single? Far less I'm sure; not because it's less valid, but because it's not seen as a societal norm - and that's the crux of the studies. Maybe the question ought to be, which gender benefits most from marriage? And that's going to universally be women. So in light of that, why wouldn't feminine influence create social contrivances that develop into norms which encourage marriage as being wildly beneficial to both?

 

[Vulpine]

"Folks, gays are fighting very hard for marriage rights for a reason. I have a suspicion that its because there are benefits to marriage."

They want the same rights as everyone else has which they should have.

And, they are plugged into the same matrix as everyone else, believe it or not.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Actually, I should apologize. After review, there are indeed plenty of 'articles' and studies on the benefits of being single. However, I have to say that these are largely female oriented in their approach. In other words "you can be happy without a man" type articles.

 

[speed dawg]

A question for you, Rollo. After your daughter is grown up and on her own, are you going to stay with your wife? I mean, there's no benefit for you there, is it? No disrespect intended here, it's just a point that I STRONGLY disagree with you on. Now, do I think marriage has gotten away from what it was intended to be? Yes, but that's another story altogether.

There are MANY benefits of marriage. Most I won't discuss here because I don't want to get into religion arguments. That's the key that's left out here. We have a bunch of people who think they're smarter than they really are and no respect for the higher powers. A friend of mine who happens to be just that is getting married in a couple of weeks. They are atheist, imagine that.

I mean, there's a reason we're not supposed to act like animals, even if we still have all the primal tendencies to do so. It's called our soul. Our brains were created bigger for a reason, in His own image.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Heh,..no. I love Mrs. Tomassi. However, I will point out that statistically there are two stage in marriage where divorce is more likely to occur - at the 7 year point and the 20 year point. Why is this? The 7 year itch is a real phenomenon; this tends to be the point at which (on average 2) children are produced and the realities of the responsibility of being a parent and the viability of sharing them with a partner become evident, which are then weighed against one's own capacity to do so in the long term. At the 20 year mark you have the empty-nesters where the couple have raised the children and seen them off to college, and now must reevaluate their commitment with regards to the remainder of their lives. It's at this stage that couples who were "only in it for the kids" will split up.

So while I personally don't see myself doing this, the frequency with which couples do split at these points in marriage is significant enough to ask why they are doing so. I've never been anti-marriage. I've been happily married for 12 years now, and I'd like to think I'm doing something correct. However, I am very much against misinformed-premature-uneducated-life-in-hell marriage and people clinging to the idea that marriage is a goal-state that will unequivocally lead them into a life of bliss because they were conditioned over the better part of their lives to believe it's "the right thing to do". As I stated before, it's far more weighted to favor a feminine imperative. That may be a recent perversion of 'traditional marriage' but nonetheless it's a reality that more and more people are beginning to recognize.

 

[speed dawg]

However, I am very much against misinformed-premature-uneducated-life-in-hell marriage and people clinging to the idea that marriage is a goal-state that will unequivocally lead them into a life of bliss because they were conditioned over the better part of their lives to believe it's "the right thing to do".

I agree completely with this. And I also agree with many of your principles, except for there's no benefits to marriage outside raising kids.

I tend to find that most of the "kids" marriages were ones forced by young pregnancies. Glad I dodged that one. I mean, I am physically attracted to damn near every female. That's the first thing I think when I see a woman. And naturally I would have sex with them. But just because I would fvck them doesn't mean I could make a relationship work with them. That's another reason why I think marriage is more than the "men want physical, women want confidence" mantra, which is true also by the way.

I don't have an opinion about the 7 year one. Haven't seen much of that one. Most of the shorter marriages I've seen is just where the man goes AFC, woman is bored, etc.

 

[Vulpine]

spanky, some guys don't find SS until they are 40, even 50 years old. It's the same thing - you're never too old to catch on.

So, Mr. Leykis probably saw the pattern (albeit a little slowly), and sought help for himself. He obviously did find help, though, perhaps through a random, unrelated, google search like I did.

I've been noticing that several media personalities have been somehow tied to this site. Perhaps it is program director, perhaps it is them, but, topics will pop up on here and it will be brought up or at least "given the nod" on a show in the very near future. :cheer:

For all you know, I could be Tom Leykis; Rollo Tomassi could be Stephen Colbert; and Victory Unlimited could actually be Samuel L. Jackson. There's no telling who's lurking.

 

[KontrollerX]

As far as Tom Leykis goes, can you really trust the advice regarding marriage that comes from a guy who has been married and divorced four times? Any man would be bitter at this point! First failed marriage shame on he but second, third and fourth....what the Fvk were you thinking?

Tom has told his listeners he was an idiot to get married any of those times and doesn't want them to repeat his mistakes hence his show is currently focused on instructing guys not to get into a relationship and not to get married.

Just pump em and dump em is his mantra.

However people keep calling in asking him for marriage and relationship advice and he has to keep telling them that he is not about helping people out with their relationship and marriage problems he is just about teaching guys how to get laid with as little time, money and hassle involved as possible.

 

[MaddXMan]

As far as Tom Leykis goes, can you really trust the advice regarding marriage that comes from a guy who has been married and divorced four times? Any man would be bitter at this point! First failed marriage shame on he but second, third and fourth....what the Fvk were you thinking?

Leykis has been around forever, doing the shock jock thing, then he was a liberal radio commentator for years, now does this relationship/get laid show. It's an act, a format, he's an entertainer and does it very well.

(Mancow is massively more entertaining, but Stern rules them all)

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

. Maybe the question ought to be, which gender benefits most from marriage? And that's going to universally be women.

Universally? How exactly did you come to this conclusion? So in ALL relationships, it's the woman begging the man to get married? Or are women so devious that they've hijacked society so deeply and insideously so as to brainwash men to think they (men) want marriage more than women, when they get down on their knees to propose?

And even though most CEO's are men, Presidents are men, most monarchs throughout the history of the world have been men, women are so incredibly powerful and their plans so far reaching they've still been able to convince most men that it was their (men's) ideas to get married?

Or how about another idea:

Men are the ones that instituted the idea of marriage, (which is basically a long term sexually exclusive contract)
Because for most men, without this contract, they'd never be able to get laid.

 

[STR8UP]

I realize there a lot of touchy-feely studies touting the mental, health, financial benefits of marriage, but every one of these presupposes, first a healthy marriage, and second that these same benefits couldn't be enjoyed outside of marriage were marriage not an option to the individual. And still, I wont deny that there aren't some aspects of marriage that are very beneficial, but the studies are biased in favor of being married due to it being a social norm.

I have to wonder how many men would want to be married to one woman for the rest of their life if there was no pressure from society, and more importantly no pressure from the woman? I would bet not many.....

I've said it before and I will say it again....I am not against marriage. I think it CAN work for some people. Some OLDER and more EXPERIENCED people who now what they want, are mentally stable (read- secure with themselves), and who have a REALISTIC expectation of what a marriage can and cannot provide.

The problem comes when all of these criteria are not met, and you have Mr. 21 year old who has had all of two relationships in his life, who thinks that marriage will "complete" him marries the 19 year old who hasn't even had a chance to have a drink in a club yet and thinks that marriage is some sort of romantic getaway that will turn her into cinderella overnight.

This is obviously an extreme example, but you get the point.

 

[STR8UP]

Universally? How exactly did you come to this conclusion? So in ALL relationships, it's the woman begging the man to get married?

the vast majority of the time it IS the woman dragging the man to the altar. Many marriages are the result of the man "giving in". What a pitiful way to live your life.