To cheat or not to cheat.. Or is it cheating at all?

[BandOfBrothers]

Ok, I'm not really new to sosuave, I had to re-register because my fiancee found out about my old account. Anyway, the situation I'm about to describe is quite interesting, and I wonder what some of the older DJs have to say.

I've been involved with my fiancee for the past two years. She's 20yo, an 8 in looks, English major and a very sweet girl EXCEPT that her family really hates my guts. They tend to ignore my existence most of the time, but judging on the few things they said about me and our relationship, it seems to me that when the time comes for the two of us to get married, they will probably make her choose between them and me. She is tied to her father the most, so it's going to be that old geezer or me. We had a rough time traveling anywhere on our own since she still lives with her folks and they're not letting her go anywhere without them; she even has a curfew - she has to be back home until 10:30PM.

So basically, for the past two years I haven't left my hometown, since I was kinda stupid and didn't want to travel without her. I finally cracked during New Year's, she had to leave around 1:30 because "her poor father was home alone".. I didn't want to put her into position where she'd have to choose, because I knew that if I had made her stay with me, she would sulk for the rest of the evening. I was recently looking into purchasing a chopper, and she freaked out.. And the main reason she freaked out wasn't b/c she was worried about my safety but because she's starting to behave like this major control freak and that's starting to get on my nerves. Now, if you're asking why I'm putting up with all this, well, sex is really, really good and she's been there for me on numerous occasions, through thick and thin.

Here's where it gets interesting: one day we went out with a friend of ours and he asked if he could invite a friend of his that studies abroad. We said that was cool, and she turns out to be the most interesting woman I have met in this city (an 8, slightly slimmer than my fiancee, American Studies major, VERY intelligent). Turns out there's been about ten different occasions where we talked to each other and stuff, but she was in a five-year long relationship that ended with her fiance cheating on her while she was abroad studying. Another friend joined us and we talked; and my fiancee suddenly left because her father was calling her. I noticed that she felt excluded from the conversation and later that day she told me that she felt put down by our new friend (lets call her Mandy), and how I wasn't paying attention and the two of us hit it right off and had our own little world of shared interests and conversation and yada yada yada. I didn't really pay that much attention to it until both our friends said a somewhat similar thing, minus the whole humiliation part.

So a couple of days passed and Mandy added me as a friend on Facebook and left a comment. I commented back, and it went on for just a couple of comments. Meanwhile, my fiancee started this whole "Mandy watch" with her girlfriends and it turned into a veritable hate. There were some snide remarks about Mandy and me between my fiancee's friends, and some of them even related to it and it was a total crisis. Meanwhile, a couple of my friends started commenting that I'll certainly cheat on my fiancee with Mandy.
All things considered, I decided I should go out with Mandy and see what's her story. We went out for coffee, and I felt a lot of understanding and connection previously unfamiliar to me. She hit the nerve by saying "my mother would love you", which you can probably understand. So a few days passed and she was about to leave for school again and she wanted to see me on her last night in town. We went out again (this was some serious James Bond stuff guys) and had another of those stimulating conversations. Nothing ensued because I figured that she sensed that I wasn't a ONS kinda guy, and genuinely admired the fact that I didn't ignore my fiancee's existence while I was truly interested in her intellect. She sent me a message before she left saying "Thanks for making my last day at home so much better".

Now, she met me only four days after her big break-up, and I think that even though she must've felt like crap about it, she was holding up well and didn't fall under the "**** 10 guys to get over him" temptation. So, she left the city until May. Two days later, I found out that my fiancee knew all my usernames and passwords for all of my e-mails, IMs and Facebook. I used the only address that she doesn't know of to e-mail Mandy and let her know that she might get a message from her impersonating me, and that she should only reply to this particular address. We have been corresponding ever since, and it's a very frank and open communication. She openly admitted that she was attracted to me, and that she finds this level of understanding between the two of us very sexy and appealing, not to mention that we share the same interest for adventure. Meanwhile, my fiancee turned into Spanish inquisition, constantly calling me, checking on me and generally freaking me out.

I obviously have two options: break up the engagements, and go for Mandy OR stick with my current g/f. I kind of like the fact that she's jealous because that means she cares, but sometimes it overwhelming. On the other hand, Mandy said something about not being able to be completely frank because of my current situation so I'm quite sure that means "I fell for you but I'm afraid you're going to hurt me eventually" in womenese.

Currently I'm opting for staying with my fiancee (sex is good as I mentioned) until Mandy returns and make my decision then, but I'm not sure of how to do it properly. If it comes to breaking down the engagements, I'd like her to be the one to break them off while I get to keep my reputation so cheating on her and then letting her know about it won't do it. Besides, I don't want Mandy to think I'm the same piece of crap like her ex-fiance. What would you guys do in my position?

 

[slitherjef]

did not even read your post, but some one on the board said something like, "if you do something you don't want some one else to know about, its cheating"

 

[BandOfBrothers]

..did not even read your post..

I know it's long, but read it and comment within the context of the story. Otherwise, it's fairly useless to go around and comment for the sake of commenting.

 

[romangod]

I know it's long, but read it and comment within the context of the story. Otherwise, it's fairly useless to go around and comment for the sake of commenting.

Can you edit it and put in some paragraphs? It's a tough read.

 

[BandOfBrothers]

Will do.

 

[WC2]

I didn't even read your whole post, but it seems to me that you need to make a decision here. Are you happy with how things are? Will your woman take you over her family, and if she does are you OK with having a fiancee who has parents that hate you?

It's all about YOU. What makes you happy.

A word of advice also.. avoid taking the easy way out and cheating on her. If you think you'd be happier without her, tell her that you want out. Be nice about and this way if you don't like what you find out there, you always have something to come back to.

 

[BandOfBrothers]

It's a tough read.

You seem to be right on the point; everybody's skipping the most important and most interesting part..

 

[BandOfBrothers]

I sincerely apologize if anyone gets offended; but when did America forget how to read?

 

[slitherjef]

I know it's long, but read it and comment within the context of the story. Otherwise, it's fairly useless to go around and comment for the sake of commenting.

Your question was: "To cheat or not to cheat.. Or is it cheating at all?"

I answered your question...
if you think my comments are useless and I am commenting for the sake of commenting, know that, I rarely make comments to other members on this board.

You asked a question, I gave you an answer and you said my comments where useless.

Don't like what I have to say? Don't read it. Simple

Thanks :yes:

 

[bigjohnson]

On an unformatted text place like this two line-feeds make

a much nicer

paragraph break.



Beyond that it sounds like you want out of your LTR and are trying to act like a woman and swing from the old branch to a new one. You make numerous excuses about things that are less than perfect and nothing but good about 'Mandy' ... which is unrealistic to a huge degree.

My advice is don't get into an exclusive relationship unless you're willing to be exclusive.

 

[BandOfBrothers]

I'm an idiot when it comes to formatting text. I admit. Now, as for the "question", isn't it supposed to be the title of an actual post with a further explanation of the issue at hand? Damn, if we all only answered one-line questions our advice would be worthless.

"..it sounds like you want out of your LTR and are trying to act like a woman and swing from the old branch to a new one.." Yeah, what's wrong with that? Mandy's not perfect, and she's most like going to have different issues that I might not get along with, but that's natural, isn't it? Of course I'm willing to be exclusive, I've been exclusive for two friggin' years and I've met many women during that period. I didn't find them nearly interesting enough to even flirt with them, let alone go for coffee. Oh well. Anyone else got a take on this one?

 

[Last Man Standing]

Replacing one ho for another is no big deal!! Go with the ho that gives you the least trouble!! You are not married - so don't feel bad!

 

[BandOfBrothers]

I wouldn't really refer to them as hoes..

 

[Bible_Belt]

she was in a five-year long relationship that ended with her fiance cheating on her while she was abroad studying....

...Now, she met me only four days after her big break-up...


That means you are rebound guy. You probably have no long term potential, but can have a great few months. As for your gf, she is snooping and breaking into your facebook account? Do you really want to marry someone like that?

 

[Effington]

Good story, I like it.

First and foremost, I'll give you warning that I haven't been in a long-term relationship before, so take my words with a grain of salt.

I'll summarize what I think I got out of your post. You're at that point in the relationship with your fiancee where things are routine now, and (maybe?) almost boring. You probably also had a bad week, as you mentioned the family incident. Then new girl comes around that you instantly click with; you obviously have a lot of things in common with her. (Reader's note: Probably not the best thing in the world that this went on right in front of your girlfriend.) She is jealous (rightfully or not, I am in no position to judge), and her paranoia/insecurity is not only not cool, but also it's making you really look at the flaws of your girl (ie, family hates you) and how cool new girl is.

As to the question at hand, it really comes down to a decision you have to make. Do you want to get married to this girl? For now, I'd reassure her that there was no cheating at all, (side note, it's really creepy that she went into your email, that's definitely not cool) and try and get her insecurities gone. Then when/if new girl comes back, make the decision then. FYI, this is the script to a lot of really cheesy romantic comedy films, but I digress.

My opinions may be a little different from the general audience here, because my best friend married her rebound guy; after a 3 year relationship she met a new guy the next weekend, and now they're married and going on 6 years. I understand that's the huge minority, but it shows that it's possible for those to last.

 

[romangod]

Currently I'm opting for staying with my fiancee (sex is good as I mentioned) until Mandy returns and make my decision then, but I'm not sure of how to do it properly. If it comes to breaking down the engagements, I'd like her to be the one to break them off while I get to keep my reputation so cheating on her and then letting her know about it won't do it. Besides, I don't want Mandy to think I'm the same piece of crap like her ex-fiance. What would you guys do in my position?

First off, thanks for editing your post and making it an easier read.


Secondly, I'm wondering why she's your fiancee at the tender age of 20? I think you might be moving too fast and the likely outcome is the divorce court if and when you decide to marry this child.

As for making your decision, take your time and give it some deep thought until Mandy returns. You're playing with fire and I fear that you're the one who will get burned. Good luck.

 

[sexy_kuta]

i was rebounded.
it really sucks, the way girls rebound you, is disgusting. They will give you their 100 percent attention at first sight, for a few months it will be like this, good behaviour, blah blah, you think shes the one because shes giving you good behaviour and 100 percent of her undivided attention but really, shes rebounding you. shes trying to get all her focus off her ex and give it to you, then it either ends as, when she is done with you she moves on, or she goes back to her ex. those are the only two outcomes, OR she finds a new guy when shes done with you.

now as for marriage. IF you two arent happy before marriage, what makes you think marriage will make everything better. you guys gotta work it first hand before you climb up the ladder.

now, shes 20 years old, do you really think shes mature enough for a marriage? by breeching your trust, going behind your back into your facebook etc.? Naw man fuk THAT SH!T.

Honestly, imma tell you straight up bro, from my point of view, I'd say get out of there as soon as possible before you dig a deeper hole with your emotions.

 

[Skepsis]

I sincerely apologize if anyone gets offended; but when did America forget how to read?

I read it! (Californian here)

I think it's pretty obvious that you're not ready to bite the bullet and get married. So you should definitely break off the engagement and try something new. You must comprehend that this is the first 'something else' that has hit you and that many more will arrive in the future. A marriage or engagement should be absolutely, resolute, and not dependent on sex.

You're not, so break it off and have fun. :crazy:

 

[Microphone Fiend]

Alright, hopefully you aren't afraid to read a bit but I think this is pertinent to your situation. This is from the Mature Man poster, Mintxx

i'm in an odd situation and any thoughts would be appreciated:

i've been seeing girl A on and off for a couple of years. there was always a sense of being in a relationship in some way. we live a way apart and things are pretty stagnant due to this and burgeoning careers etc, but i have strong feelings for her (as it turns out: read on). we see each other maybe once a week and each is familiar with the other's family etc. she has accepted that my situation and age makes it inevitable that i will occasionally be otherwise engaged sexually, and that she can deal with this because it has to happen for me to be able to commit, though she never wants to hear about it.

i met girl B three weeks ago at law school. massive chemistry, very smart, 10DD, keen as mustard. i tell her the situation with girl A, but I don't know if I conveyed it properly because she ended up in my bed last night. we didn't fukk because i was feeling odd about it but the dirty talk, nudity and tongue play amounted to the same thing anyway. A's and another girls stuff is around my room and I'm wearing a ring with 'love A 2005' which B notes.

the chemistry with girl B was/is insane and I couldn't resist it. i kind of missed out on these girls early on at university and part of me is thinking it will make me less edgy with girl A if i've spread some loving before finishing uni and really committing to her for good. so consider the following:

1. this morning after B left, i felt so guilty i was almost physically ill. i didn't expect this and i am freaked. if it had been a ONS with full sex but less intellectual desire and intimacy i would be ok with it as i have been in the past.
2. it can't last with B and I have to make that clearer. however (yes, greedy) i value her friendship and i even think that a good movie meltdown fukk (her phrase) amongst the bookshelves would clear the air and resolve things and allow me to keep her around. this isn't inconceivable; as passionate and genuine as she is, i can tell she's been around and knows the score. or it would drive me insane with guilt.
3. i don't want to hurt B. but i can't cut ties with A. i adore them both.

so far i've resolved to tell B how i feel. she doesn't really want to be the other woman but knows i've got ties elsewhere. this could blow up in my face; i've been seriously fukking foolish. i have this idiotically idyllic dream of us being occasional FBs and me getting more serious with A.

also, this could be me subconsciously forcing my hand as far as cutting ties with A goes. i feel strongly about her but our situations make it difficult. however, i can't bring myself to it at this stage; it's the emotional connection and the history (rather than cowardice hopefully).

so i tell B to cool off and explain that my heart isn't on the market like i thought it was, and risk hurting her. at this early stage, not having taken her like an animal like she wants, i can probably still do that if i can make it clear to her what her priorities need to be for it to go where she wants.

or i just go balls deep in B and tell A i need to spread my loving, come back in two years when i'm clerking and the puzz isn't surrounding my raging hormones with temptation.

what i can't do is lie to A or B. this is the crucial juncture; any further and i am over the wire and in no man's land.

i'm in australia, any more context just ask. i hope i have made some sort of sense. any light that can be shed, experiences shared, warnings etc, will help me think it through. my friends are almost exclusively of the 'fukk em both and ride that puppy all the way to ground zero' persuasion...

maybe i need to harden my heart and roll with it, but if you don't have your principles, what do you have? feelings cannot be chosen, only selectively suppressed.

your thoughts?

Which four months later leads to:

Hey guys,

If you glance over past posts of mine, I was having trouble with a LTR. It was finally resolved, as I expected, when a girl in my classes at law school started hitting on me. I knew she was intense and that it'd be a start-middle-end in a few months type scenario, but I let the LTR go and started a steamy entanglement with this girl. And, as I think Bible Belt or someone predicted in one of my threads, law school girls are quite something.

She'd made a few comments about my being inconsistent with things I say, the usual stuff, because I hadn't really expected it to go anywhere so I'd kind of let my guard down. So we talked it through, I gave her some space (went upstate for a week), and tonight she invited me round to her house, where I then went with some (again) expectation that things would be wrapped up/broken off in lieu of an escalation of 'relationship stuff', which neither of us wanted.

She tells me that she's got no energy to give to a relationship (valid point, she's starting a career as a lawyer and during clerkships the process is very stressful, she only has time to sleep) and that she hasn't got the feelings for me that she did a week or two earlier. We hadn't slept together for three weeks or more because of time apart, stress, and my being somewhat reticent because I could sense that things were drawing to a close (not good for performance anxiety). She also told me about several things that bothered her about me, all valid points, and I wasn't sure if this meant that she wanted me to change them for the future or if she was just rounding out her general reasons for ending it.

She then says she wants to have no contact for three weeks, except at her initiation if she wants to go out for dinner to celebrate her likely acceptance into a firm. In three weeks school resumes and we'll have to see each other; she says by this time she will have worked out whether she just wants to be friends or wants to try getting back together. She refuses to rule out getting back together even if we become friends first. And on it goes.

She cries a bit, says she'll miss me over the next few weeks, refers to her sister having a good relationship with an ex boyfriend. I'm not really upset though I'm sure I'll feel it down the line when I'm chucking her stuff so another girl can stake a claim on my bed, but obviously I'm motivated enough to examine the possibilities that I've posted this stuff.

SO:
In your experiences, in the break > LJBF/time to work one's sh!t out etc scenario, what are the good signs and bad signs? This has happened before with other girls and worked out later, but it also has not and no patterns are evident, and if I'm the one doing the breaking/LJBF it's usually because I'm running around town, so my opinions from that point of view are useless.

and:
What are good strategies to 'get her back'? Yes, there is another girl who I'm randomly seeing for dinner and late night fooling around, and my ex is also trying to get me back and looking very good doing it, but neither of these girls is more than a second choice and I am not leading them on to believing otherwise unless that changes.

obvously I haven't told the whole story and it's not very well explained, so ask for the details you want if you'd like to offer me advice. My current strategy is my failsafe one: walk away, do nothing, spin more plates. But I want to keep this plate spinning, and anything I can do to influence the situation will stop me feeling that I just let things slide off the pole with her. My strong feeling is that she's cutting ties gradually but this girl is unusual for a lot of reasons, very upfront and honest with everything, very generous and undemanding, emotional but very logical at the same time, so I don't want to jump the gun. I can't stand doing nothing and I want to work out what's up so that I can take some other opportunities ASAP (or not).

Thanks for reading. Any advice will be gratefully considered.

So imo, I would not expect the relationship to last very long. It is possible, but be prepared to become single again after you go for the new girl. Quit asking yourself if you want to be with 'Mandy' and ask yourself do you want to be single. If the answer is yes then do whatever you think is right


Also, as for cheating, to paraphrase what joekerr said in the MM section:

the reason i have no words of wisdom is that this topic always comes back to morals - which just ends up being a argument between two extremes.

additionally, the ops post, to me, basically just says 'i might take a hammer and smash my toe. If it hurts. what do i do?"

ummmm. don't smash your toe with a hammer. LEARN YOUR F*CKING LESSON.

but what the op is really searching for is some way to not feel guilty over this. he might feel bad and wants to feel better. and rest assured, some posters will chime in with 'hey, women do it all the time. don't feel bad about it.' and then others will be 'do unto others as youd have them do unto' (im off this camp). and then the two will fight for 17 pages.

 

[drak_ool]

read the whole thing...

first off your girl seems like the manipulative/spying maniac, which is a big red flag for me

secondly, you obviously wanna fvck a girl who you ve just met 4 days ago. Nothing wrong with that, however, why do you still talk about marrying your gf?

In case you do get married, her manipulative/controlling side will fully blossom, while the positive side of your relationship (sex) will deteriorate and you will be even more inclined on shagging other girls, thus starting a vicious circle of drama and mistrust from which you will get out in 5 years after a painful divorce and the loss of most of your assets. Is this your ideal view of the future?