This is retarded ... why am I chasing girls?

[muscleman]

I ranted about this a while ago and I think it's time for round 2. All this going out and sarging and trying to build interest and blah blah just seems retarded. I mean, it seems horribly inefficient. It goes something like this:

(using 100 as a round number, I don't really talk to 100 in one night lol)

Go out, talk to 100 girls.
End up with 50 numbers.
Follow up and get initial responses from 40.
Get dates with 20.
10 of them don't look as good as they did at the bar.
5 aren't interested further.
5 are interested.

The past 2.5 months have been good development, sure. I've probably talked to 100 or so girls, I easily acquired 30+ numbers, went out on dates with 5 girls, got a few makeouts, had one really random ONS, turned down sex from one, but overall it still seems like a waste of time.

I mentioned a while ago becoming elite in the sense that women are attracted to you, they flock to you, they chase you.

This website teaches us to be the prize, DHV, somehow get girls to chase us, not supplicate, etc. But honestly, how many of you can just go outside and walk around and have girls start up conversations with you? I've had it happen ... once in a blue moon. What I'm getting at is that I'm not seeing the results I want. Maybe I'm rushing things, maybe I just don't have enough to offer to get girls to come to ME.

Look at anyone famous or really rich with at least somewhat of a social life ... they don't need to go picking up chicks. They come to them.

I want to be as efficient as possible in my 20s and not waste so much time chasing tail. Rather become someone the girls chase, right? Is anyone here successful in the true alpha sense - you got girls coming to you?

Fugly I know you're gonna come in here and tell me to be a male stripper. I just might lol. Rollo is probably going to write an essay (in layman's terms please).

 

[trent81]

If you are extremely handsome or rich, you don't chase women, they chase you. If you are neither of these two, you will chase women all your life. End of story. Accept it, or exit it. Either way, the world will still be here. Such is life. C'est la vie. Good luck!

 

[Jitterbug]

Most guys who get laid a lot are doing so with girls from their social circle and referrals. They aren't going to bars trying to pick up night after night.

 

[edger]

Muscleman, that's why it's so much easier and less of a headache to get an escort. Really, some of you guys may think that's lame, but would you rather be a dog chasing it's tail around in circles wasting your life away weekend after weekend, or know you're guaranteed to get a hot piece where and when you want it? Going out and having to game women feels like such a chore, that to be quite frank, is really not worth it. I go out now for the music and because I like to dance. I go out for myself.

 

[Prozac]

Jitterbug has the right idea.

If you enjoy being the one chased, the one that is MASSIVELY over before even seeing the girl, then you will need to start playing the social circle game and asking women to hook you up with other women.

 

[The Champ]

I have been chased plenty of times. All it takes is some good pics and some online game. Thousands of hot girls online. Just stand out from the AFC's and your set.

I need to drop 20 pounds but I have packed on alot of muscle in the past year. I throw up my ad online (with a great profile and emails) and follow up with some online game. I have them chasing.

I have a date with one tomorrow for coffee. She did most of the chasing, and did me a huge favor distracting me from the ex BPD so I could succeed with the no contact. She blows up my phone early in the morning and told me she enjoys sex. And I think she looks great.

I'm going to return her favor by feeding her some sausage.

Then I have another date Saturday for coffee.

 

[MikeYikes122]

If you are extremely handsome or rich, you don't chase women, they chase you. If you are neither of these two, you will chase women all your life. End of story. Accept it, or exit it. Either way, the world will still be here. Such is life. C'est la vie. Good luck!

This is not true. I am a fairly good looking dude, and women do not actively chase me. A lot of them show signs of interest that I have to act upon, and many who are in my social circle are into me, but it's a far stretch to say that women all over are chasing me.

In fact, if you get into the mentality where you think women are going to just chase you, you'll be worse off than you've ever been. That's just not how the game works, and it's never going to work like that unless you have a massive social circle filled with women (like at a college campus maybe).

Sure, good looks and wealth (provided you convey that wealth) will get random women interested in you. But it won't mean **** if you don't have the balls to act on those signs of interest, or if you don't have the game to seal the deal.

Most guys who get laid a lot are doing so with girls from their social circle and referrals. They aren't going to bars trying to pick up night after night.

This, however, is 100 percent true. I couldn't agree with it more. :yes:

 

[trent81]

well then you are not as good looking as you think you are. I know good looking guys who get hit on by women and asked out every day, every day.

 

[The Champ]

I disagree.

I get laid and I have no true friends or anything like that.

Screw all that. I use online game 80%. I picked up a girl at a bar recently but she had kids and acted aloof so it's too much baggage.

Online pimping is the way to go. I have been saving information for years about online pimping. I was waiting for the days it would pay of... those days are here and passed. PM me if you are smart.

 

[grinder]

The benefits of cold approaching go far beyond getting some digits and chasing girls.

It’s about confidence, about focus, and developing subtle skills for dealing with and piquing the interest of women.

It’s literally a social exercise that benefits you in every encounter in your personal and professional life.

Like exercise, most don’t like it because it is a challenge. At first it’s hard to do. I’ve found that with women I’ve never met and may never see again I can challenge them and experiment with different approaches. I’ve always been amazed at what they’ll tell you and what you can “get away with” if you punch the right buttons.

As far as women flocking to you? Well, women are everywhere and they are around you all the time. If you give them a reason to be interested in you it will appear to others that they are flocking to you when, in fact, they just enjoy being with you, maybe 2% more than anyone else around. It doesn’t take much, most people are boring as hell and with a little skill and humor you set yourself apart.

 

[jonwon]

well then you are not as good looking as you think you are. I know good looking guys who get hit on by women and asked out every day, every day.

I don’t think so - Let's not turn this into a look thread.

Looks matter, but I know firsthand from going out with very good looking guys. Being good looking can hurt you as much has it can help you.

For example being good looking can make a women nervous around you, much like men are around a good looking chick.

Also good looking men have bad press from women. Women feel really attractive men, will cheat on them and have a harem at home waiting for them.

Yes looks help don’t get me wrong, but a really good looking guy from my experience has to play down his game rather than ramp it up. For example a good looking guy going in with negs to a girl (from usual dating mumbo jumbo) will probably result in the girl feeling paranoid and pushing her away some more. On the other hand, if the attractive man, was for instance, played himself down, laughed at himself whilst in her company, would and does help in more situations in showing her that he is not what her assumptions made him out to be.

Assumptions are one of the worst things a man and a women can develop in the mating game. Women assume, men assume and 9 out of 10, those assumptions are based off group think, that has no grounding on reality.

One can focus on looks e.t.c, but I know from experience, social standing trumps looks and money anyday.

Women love a guy who is attractive to other women.

Give a beta money - unless he flashed the cash, he wont be getting attention. And any journey into a 5 star hotel for a drink will show you all the beta males, with wads of cash on the bar, trying to attract a gold digger. Money does not bring in girls, but what you do with it does.

As for looks, yes you may get a girl open you up once in a blue moon (I knew a guy with model looks, who never got any attention). But if you don’t know how to act with that attention it means nothing. One guy I knew got opened up by two attractive girls, the guy was very good looking. Two minutes later the girls had walked away, he didn't know how to act or handle the situation. The situation was too much for him.

Also I see more douche bag ugly dudes with attractive girls then good looking guys and if anyone was being really honest they would agree too. If you don’t agree, take a step away from the PC and look at the real world.

A women is more inclined to go with a guy due to his social standing in her eyes then his looks.

Also the rich guy, is just an average joe away from his social circle.

Girls don’t normally approach guys, it's just the way it is.

If one wants it the other way around, he needs to build up is rep, either positively or negatively. The local hard man thug, also attracts girls through his rep, even if he is a leader of feral thugs - They attract a certain quality of girls.

Humans seem to work very similar to the mating model of chimps - Girls seem to want to fuc* the head guy (but chimp females also screw the lower end chimp if he is cheeky enough and pushes for sex, whilst the others ain't looking) - But stick that guy into any other social circle he is just an average Joe. Also humans tend to stick to a close nit social circle - Cant remember the term but its something to do with humans sticking more or less to the herd around them, much like animals do.

Become the leader of your friends, be the one who seems to be the centre of attention, have other girls talk about you, get your reputation spread around. Have other men talk about you, positive or negative, it's all good, even better if you have a rep of being a bit of a cad and other guys condemn you for it, to girls.

Standing at the bar with model looks and the latest threads, won’t result in hordes of girls heading your way, but being the interesting guy everyone seems to be talking about, will have them coming over.

I've had girls open me up, each and every time I was walking around the place like I owned it, rather then what I had on or the looks. If anything a look should be about how to stand and how to act in a social scene to come across has the man who seems to be the shi*, without appearing too arrogant, but even arrogance is good.

Having other girls notice you is also a powerful thing - Girls want to fuc* the guy other girls want to sleep with, contrary to popular belief.

Though tbh about it, guys shouldn’t be looking to try to get girls to come over. Instead they should be focusing on improving.

Muscleman, I believe 100% you need to be a little more aggressive. You state you’ve had many dates and one close lay, but I question how your going about things. There are certain ways to push for sex, certain things that need to be done right, a guy almost has to force the girls hand, so to excuse her of being ridiculed by society, most girls want excuse her ‘whoppsie moment’ has being completely out of her hands, i.e it just happened because the guy made it happen and she was an innocent party to it.

I’m surprised how many so called good girls I’ve slept with. Also I know many examples of girls, I didn’t pressure for sex and played it cool with, for them to move on pretty sharpish. But the girls I have been very sexual with, have always come back or seem to want a little bit more.

I.e don’t be afraid of being sexual with girls. A date in my mind should be a way to try to get her into bed, because from experience 9 out of 10, that’s what most of them want anyway. They just dont want there mates to find out, or for it to effect her standing in society, she still wants to mate, hence that's the whole point of dating in the first place, to mate, to have sex and do the double backed monster. After all it's only human and we've been doing it since the dawn of man, girls included.

Guy's need to know women are very sexual creatures, she may not want it has much as we do (some girls want it more) - But she still wants it. Why do you think she is on that date, Subconsciously at a genetic level, she wants to spread her genes and that means fuc*ing. humans just tend to put alot of spin around it. She isn;t there to deduce if your a good cook, she is there motivated by genes that want to replicate at it's most basic level.

Also remember one thing, women will do almost anything in the bedroom as long has you do not judge her for it and I mean anything - some just require more coaxing, in the form of telling her 'its all ok and it's perfectly natural and you really enjoy it. Women also like to please sexually, women like to look at the man who is fuc*ing her, from many angles, they like to see your enjoying yourself. It goes back to the feeling of importance, she likes to feel important, through her giving you pleasure, much like men like to feel important, by giving her an orgasm.

 

[Colossus]

Awesome post as usual, Jonwon.

Muscleman---study Jonwon's post and digest it carefully. All of your answers are there.

It's a total myth that the best-looking men get the lion's share of the women. Like he said, women generally don't approach men, it's just the way life is and you have to accept it. Especially very handsome men. It's intimidating to them!! Also, much like gorgeous women have a bad rep for being disloyal, very handsome men have a bad rep for not being able to stay in one woman's pants.

Women often tell me I am very attractive. I can easily walk into a bar or club, and provided my mental frame is intact, approach any caliber of woman with reasonable guarantee of positive outcome. That's not to brag; because I really don't do this, but my experience has been that I can seduce women with my looks and by simply being confident. I don't have great social status or proof, and I don't have any money to speak of.

BUT---I will be the first to tell you that while good looks are a great asset, they do not guarantee a man anything. With women it's a different story, but not so with men. Do you know how many years of my life I went without so much as a handjob?!?! It was because I had no confidence. I was horribly self-conscious and had the social skills of a boy raised by wolves. I also cant even count the number of times I have been in bars and clubs and got NOTHING---because of the same reasons. It was written all over my face and body language, sipping my beer at the bar with another socially-challenged friend. I would always be baffled why my smaller, goofier friends had such effortless success with girls. It was because they were fun, confident, and had tons of friends. And once girls saw how other girls wanted them, it just compounded on itself. Contrary to pop-culture, mysterious, awkward loners don't get laid. They weird girls out.

Not saying this is you at all, I'm just sharing my experience. I have observed the same truths as Jonwon---a guy who is fun, has social proof, and confidence has all the tools he needs. Looks and money are an afterthought. Take my good buddy Jon. He is average-looking; in average shape. But is freaking HILARIOUS and just knows how to have a good time. He is not inhibited at all, and people are drawn to his charisma. He's just one of those guys who makes friends wherever he goes---and women pick up on this. Not saying he is balls deep in panties, but he can pull HOT tail with relative ease. He is not rich...he's actually unemployed. He lives at home. Now it would be foolish of me to try and be like Jon; because I'm not him. Those are his gifts and if I tried to emulate him it would come off fake and forced. I have to use what I have, and learn from him.

This is attraction 101, but it took me years to understand. I am still learning about these simple facts of life. So my advice to you is don't make it more complicated than it is.

 

[muscleman]

I have noticed how social proofing really does trump looks/money by itself, both on myself and others. I'm working to expand my circle of friends and that involves meeting as many people as possible, everywhere. I've met a few at the gym and a couple regulars at bars. Most people I work with don't go out (there are a few exceptions). Let's tackle the bar scene for example. So it's a Friday night and me and my wing (sometimes another friend or two come along, but that's rare) hit up some bar where we don't know anyone. I'm cool with that. We do chat up some girls, maybe get a couple numbers, and then that's it, off to the next one. Occasionally we'll run into someone we know, but that's rare. So what do you do in this case? Just start making the rounds and talking with everyone?

I'm assuming you're talking about making friends in general. In my experience friends are made with people you see regularly. For me, that's a bit of a challenge considering I'm "free" for about 2 hours a night on weeknights after work/gym and more on the weekends, but I have chores that take up some time as well.

I wish there were meet & greets around here or something similar (singles parties?)

I completely understand the social proofing snowball effect, but how do you actually get to that point? That's my problem right now. I've met a lot of people the past couple months, but the majority have been in passing. I can only think of a couple who I would consider new friends.

 

[Radninja]

Muscleman, have you ever heard of meetup.com ?

Go there and find some meetup groups of your interest. I've been using it the past few years, and it is great to meet new people while doing things you love. Many of my current best friends, I met on meetup through hiking and climbing groups.

Good luck!

 

[Fuglydude]

okay... I'll bite! haha...

Social proof is among the core reasons why you WILL get approached a lot as a male entertainer. You'll be on stage performing, and you'll have a whole bar full of girls screaming for you... if that's not the definition of social proof I dunno what is. Obviously you have to look the part, but the dim lighting in the bar combined w/ generous EtOH consumption of the almost exclusively female audience will help your cause. One of my close friends, who has been an entertainer for almost a decade now, has often stated to me that our job is 80% environmental... He's implying that you can take any guy who's attractive w/ a decent build, throw him up on stage, and as long as he's an adequate performer, girls will cheer for him, and he'll end up getting social proof.

I get approached when I'm at revues. But when I'm at a concert, club or on the street girls will never approach me as frequently as at shows. Ya, I will still get approached from time to time, but its more funny than anything else. When I used to be a server, I've had a group of cougars write: "Nice buns - from the desperate house wives" on the bill, or girls leaving their numbers on bills, etc. I've had women on the street ask me if I'm a model, had female construction workers hoot and holler as I walk by haha... One time I was at the park just walking around w/ my shirt off, and these 16 year old girls were like "hey baby" and "what's cookin good looking" ... then their little brother pipes up "hey! that's not right, he's a fully grown man and you're 16 years old!" ... hahahaha... still cracks me up. Point is like these guys are saying, women will not generally approach men in the same ways that we approach women. We like nice ass/boobs/face/body... they like aesthetics too, but social proof is key when it comes to building attraction w/ females.

Social proof is among the post potent panty-droppers around! Listen to the points colossus and jonwon stated... they're extremely valid. Prior to dancing, I'd still get a decent level of interest from women. I was still in reasonably good shape, but what I lacked was CONFIDENCE! I got play here and there, but I didn't know jack shiite about escalating, sexual tension, etc etc. After I started dancing, I was able to refine my physique, got way more confident, knew how to build sexual tension/attraction had social proof working for me, and also realize that women are extremely sexual. When you have social proof, are attractive, and know how to build attraction, you have some powerful tools to help you nail hot babes.

My approach w/ women when I was single was quite simple: I was all about efficiency. This meant that I was gonna do the least amount to get the most amount of ass. This translated to pursuing women that I knew were interested. Obviously they would have to be attractive to me in some way, but you wouldn't see me approach chics that I knew had little or no interest in me. I was busy w/ school and work, etc... I didn't wanna waste my time on girls that weren't interested.

 

[Colossus]

I completely understand the social proofing snowball effect, but how do you actually get to that point? That's my problem right now. I've met a lot of people the past couple months, but the majority have been in passing. I can only think of a couple who I would consider new friends.

Well it definitely doesn't happen overnight. It's an aggregate thing. Personality also factors in quite a bit--- If you're naturally an introverted guy you cant expect to be rolling into a club 20 deep...chances are you wouldn't go to clubs anyway. A lot of it has to do with familiarity; staying in one place for some time, and just following up with people. If people know you're genuinely interested in them, they tend to respond positively. My buds in college who had the most friends socialized almost every night. Also they played sports and athletes tend to stick together; so again you so the familiarity thing.

I have found that for myself, I just need to be more friendly and call people more often. I try to say hi to all the guys at my gym and just bullsh!t with them about training, etc. After a few times we start to remember each other's names and we're not strangers anymore.

Similarly with girls; just say hi to any chicks you see regularly, even if they aren't attractive. Sometimes just by knowing chicks you'll get known by their friends who say "ooh, muscleman is hot!" Then your friend passes it on to you and you have an in. Just some suggestions.

My approach w/ women when I was single was quite simple: I was all about efficiency. This meant that I was gonna do the least amount to get the most amount of ass. This translated to pursuing women that I knew were interested.

Also good advice. Dont waste effort on uninterested women!! Back to the basics Anti-Dump outlined years ago. Cold-sarging can be great for general confidence and just getting over your fear, but it isn't very "cost-effective".

 

[edger]

Everyone on these forums tends to throw around the word "confidence" as if it's the magic key to pulling the babes. Confidence, as someone has already said here, is so overrated. I have confidence, yet it hardly does anything to help my cause. The woman who approached me over the weekend even alluded to me having confidence, yet she still blew me off.

 

[backbreaker]

Ive said it a thousand times. the best thing that ever happened for my 'game' is for me to go 3 years without talking to women and focus on my business.

the key is not getting women. the end game is not really caring so much what the outcome of the interaction with a woman is.

it's not about how many women you are dating or what youc an do to be more likeable by women. It's being happy with yourself and accecpting you for who you are, and actually liking the person you see in the mirror, regardless of if there isn't another woman on earth that doesn't like you.

muscleman you sound alot like me.

the best thing this site did for me was not teach me about confidence, or teach me about social proof, or teach me what to do on what date or how to push this particular button.. although that did help

the best thing this site did for me, as cliche as it sounds, is show me that, women weren't even what I wanted to be truely happy in the first place.

Once i started being truely happy, honestly, not giving a damn rather she likes me or not, beucase I honestly like me... the women part will take of itself.


I would recommend every guy go on a 1 year ban from women. it won't happen becuase men are too impatient and we live in a now now now world.

take a year off, figure out you. work on you. find out what really, makes you happy that has nothign to do with women. I found out that my persuit of women was actually making me miserable.

women are very overrated.

 

[trent81]

Haha my head hurts from reading these things. I'm beginning to think that tis forum is for the ugly guys that want to feel good about themselves. I cannot believe that one can't see the obvious. Sure, you will have your rare performances of ugly men with hot chicks. But here is why women "approach, hint, and talk about other men"; Are you assholves ready for the truth????

HIS GOOD LOOKS.

Yup, the initial attraction of a woman is either a) man's looks b) his money that she can use to buy things she wants.


Now go ahead and write a thesis on that. But here's the key; the words INITIAL, and APPROACH. We are talking about initial approaches BY WOMEN. We are not talking about a woman's attraction to your standing in society, your personality, or how you claim to own the room and your body posture. You can have all the confidence and body language in the world, if you look like a leper, women will not like you INITIALLY. I know guys who cannot write or speak two sentences. But women swoon over them. Why? Cause they are very good looking men. You can talk about your social proof all you want. If you don't have good looks or cash, you got some work to do. We are talking about first contact. IT'S ALL ABOUT LOOKS AND MONEY. Now, fuvk off.

 

[muscleman]

I like where this is going

-looks & money
-ban women
-screw looks, it's all about social proof
-screw money, it's all about social proof
-screw social proof, it's all about looks (and/or money)
-if you have looks and dont mind taking your clothes off, you can strip and get social proof AND money
-I need a beer