This guy has tried everything

[ThisNThat]

I've been seeing this guy pop up on the POF forums and it seems he's got a lot going for him. If you go to page 9 of

THIS thread...
(You can go back a few more pages to see his responses)

HawkingJr posts how he's been on the site for 10 years and nary had a date from it, (maybe a response here and there, but nothing came of them) He's also sent 10,000 first contact messages. He typically blames his appearance at 5'4" and a mix race (black and white) for his lack of ability to attract women.

As you can tell from the photos he cleans up pretty nice and works out. But if you check his "history" (see under his avatar/photo) You'll see he'll have some well written out diatribes of his online dating situation. He's a script writer/researcher by the way, so his writing is impeccable as opposed to the lame brained text speakers.

He's said he's tried it all, including having constantly changing the write-up of his profile and pics through the suggestion of friends both online and off.

In person, when out and about...women "think of him as a friend" but nothing more. So at least he's got that going for him?

As you can see at the conclusion of Hawking's post:

Trust me: I am the ultimate student of OLD strategy. I’ve read almost every article and study that exists on the subject and participate in studies myself. But apparently sometimes something is so broken it can’t be fixed and should just be thrown away. But it’s very difficult to just throw yourself away.

So what do say to a guy that's exhausted all options, taken all the advice, etc.?

I do tend to concur that if you "lift", but are 5'4"...chances are you will struggle with women. I don't meet too many men that are THAT short to be quite honest. I think I knew of one back in my college days. The best he could do is those toy-sized Filipino chicks probably.

He surmised that no matter what you scribed up in your dating profile....the physical is an easy way to weed men out of the tons of emails she's already getting.

 

[zekko]

I do tend to concur that if you "lift", but are 5'4"...chances are you will struggle with women. I don't meet too many men that are THAT short to be quite honest. I think I knew of one back in my college days.

I haven't really thought about it. But his height is going to stand out if what you are saying is true - that men that short are fairly rare. What's worse is that he probably has some deep seated beliefs about his height, and those beliefs are probably backed up by bad experiences he has had with women, or even being humiliated by AMOGs in front of women.

When feelings are that deep, they are probably very hard to uproot - especially when they are backed up actual experiences. There probably really are a lot of women who would not date a guy who is 5'4".

You say that he can get women to think of him as a friend though. I know that is not considered of any value here, but that is further than some guys get. Some guys can't seem to form a connection with a girl at all. I know some orbiter types who have gone out with a lot of beautiful women. Maybe it's not in the context that they want it to be, but at least they are able to get them in their lives. As I said, that's further than some guys get.

 

[ubercat]

So why the heck doesnt he date Filipino girls some of them are beautiful and miniature.

 

[ThisNThat]

So why the heck doesnt he date Filipino girls some of them are beautiful and miniature.

Chances are..they won't date men that are 5'4" either. They probably consider his height freakishly small. Most "short' men I've met were 5'6 and I'm 5'8" and considered short by some women. But 5'4" is a unicorn height for men.

That Nestaron guy even referenced this site.

 

[ubercat]

Umm a lot of Filipino girls have Filipino husbands they can be miniature too

 

[ubercat]

Basically if I had that issue I d sure as hell b getting myself over to Asia plenty of tiny Vietnamese and thai Girls too

 

[ThisNThat]

Umm a lot of Filipino girls have Filipino husbands they can be miniature too

Well, I was just giving an example. *Shrug* who knows.

He also claimed that he's even competing with MARRIED men...of course which are high money makers and successful.

 

[AlexKaiser]

"Anyone shorter than 5'8 should give up and just marry a fat girl." -Abraham Lincoln.

 

[Mike32ct]

You say that he can get women to think of him as a friend though. I know that is not considered of any value here, but that is further than some guys get. Some guys can't seem to form a connection with a girl at all. I know some orbiter types who have gone out with a lot of beautiful women. Maybe it's not in the context that they want it to be, but at least they are able to get them in their lives. As I said, that's further than some guys get.

As a side note, this is absolutely correct. The worst is "Creep Zone" where she wants nothing to do with the guy. "Friend Zone" is at least one level higher where she TRUSTS the guy, feels comfortable around him* and his personality is decent enough. So it's not the worst thing in the world.

*And even her cat won't scratch, bite or hiss at him. Another benefit lol.

 

[Konada]

Women will have s*x even if the dude is considered low value.

Judging from the long walls of text he's been writing it may be a very possible chance he can't keep his mouth shut during dates. You guys are discounting the fact that women who go out with him are clearly aware he's 5"4. Something else is at play here.

 

[dustmuffin]

He needs to learn some game, only message girls shorter than he is and lie about his height on his profile.

 

[zekko]

I'm not fond of the idea, but maybe he needs some lifts.

 

[Milano]

Basically if I had that issue I d sure as hell b getting myself over to Asia plenty of tiny Vietnamese and thai Girls too

This. When you are that short just go to Thailand or get a body that stands out.

I think the problems and pain we experience in life comes when we want reality to be something that its not. Most of us are not born like a hollywood-celeb and could never be one cause of genetics, it can be a hard pill to swallow. There comes a point in time when you need to analyze yourself and your sexual market value, if you are very short I would work out like hell and get a good physique, I mean a physique that really stands out, at least when you are short you fill out quickly and can look good. ( I notice that he did work out but I assume its nothing crazy, will look at it later)

Lets call it cat lady-mentality. I think some people just want to believe that they can get something they cant. I know girls like that, and I know that me personally I want to date girls I cant date at the moment cause when I get them in the front door they leave soon enough because I have low social status amongst other important things, still not good enough confidence cause of horrible start and late bloomer which reaks of me, so seduction is not on point, and my physique is lagging which is something I am working on.

It hurts when you are not good enough at this moment to get the girls you want, but physique is everything, and it shows when you are dealt a bad hand.

A friend of mine was even more shy than me, and envied my way of making people laugh, a gift I just have. His gift is broad shoulders and a heavy phsique, looking more manly just overall. When he gave me his "strategy" it was to let the women come to you. This is all you need when your physique is on point, if you have narrow shoulders you have to work out like fuking crazy to give the ladies the illusion that you are still strong and have good genetics, or you are simply out. There is nothing to discuss but hit the gym like your seeds depended on it, literally (if you are not rich or have great status which most of us dont lets be fair)

If you are not working out hard that means there are TONS of guys in the gym destroying you on Tinder etc, you cant beat a great looking physique by writing poems, cmon. It might feel disgusting, simple, robotic to you, but it works. Do big tits on a woman work? Big arms or shoulders on a man work? Every...single...time

 

[ThisNThat]

Lets call it cat lady-mentality. I think some people just want to believe that they can get something they cant.

Yeah, I see the same women online in my area single, never married, no kids...one had "relationship less than a year" on POF...still, the same ones...STILL there, apparently, no one is ever good enough. lol

There's this one I keep sending repeat emails to every couple of months in case she changes her mind. I tell her that "Hey, this is a small town...not many options...you're gonna have to make due with who's available."

Some of these women aren't that much to look at themselves.

 

[Roober]

Pics and profile things are everything in OLD. If you don't have great pics and great stats, your odds are significantly reduced and you should really just stick to daygame.

 

[fastlife]

OLD is just a super-saturated, inefficient market for men--especially for men with easy, superficial disqualifiers (age, height, race, etc.) that they could overcome in person. So, yeah, he tried everything--but did he get off his ass and go get rejected a couple times in person?

Have you ever been on a girl's Tinder? I have a friend who's probably a 6, borderline cute in a down-home sort of way; she let me troll her Tinder since she was literally sick of it. Every guy you swipe with is a match; most of those guys message first; most of them will respond to anything you write. She had so many messages that it was just too much work for her to even bother.

I tried Tinder a couple of times over the years--and even as an objectively good looking (as in compared to celebrities pretty regularly), 6'+, white male, in my early 20's at the time, with pretty good pics, it was absolutely brutal. What's even funnier is that later on I picked up a couple of the girls who stopped responding to messages mid convo on Tinder.

In person, you actually have a chance to convey dominance with tonality, body language, eye contact, to pass sh1t tests/disqualifiers. For instance:

Girl: Oh my God, you're so old. (Get this from a lot of 18 y/o's)
Response: So old. You should call me daddy, girl. (Girl laughs. No longer an issue)

But also height or whatever else.

Girl: Aww, you're really confident for a small guy.
Response: Easier for me to sneak out the window when your bf comes home.

Girls in Group: We're having a really important conversation.
Response: Oh, yeah. Talking about your Tinder date? Is he cute. Here, let me text him.

Also, if you've ever been in set, girls will hold eye contact almost the entire time. They don't really see how tall you are or what you look like--just eyes. And once they're attracted they'll rationalize everything in your favor, anyway.

So not saying that this guy wouldn't have his unique set of obstacles to overcome or that a lot of girls wouldn't blow him off off the open, but at least he'd have a chance.

 

[zekko]

From talking to them in the street, they come from a Christian society

I knew there was something about them I liked.

 

[zekko]

I like their tight arse. That's what I like.

That too.

 

[homie]

As said above, OLD is probably worst way to find dates if you are not really good both in exterior and in holding a frame. And that guy obviously lacks both.
@fastlife wrote very good post about that.
I tried OLD and thought it would be an easy way to pick girls, because they are all single and lonely and looking for date haha, never been so wrong. Massive amount of rejections and almost no actual communications, it was like digging trash.
Some b!tches blew me off online because of my hight (i'm 5'8) btw and I'm pretty sure none of them would do that IRL, but on dating sites they seem to be much more selective.
TLDR OLD sucks, don't waste time and energy. It's HARDER to pick girl online than irl

 

[homie]

I tried OLD seriously with intent, for about 2 weeks. And I did so for one simple reason:

I was out doing daygame as a complete beginner badly struggling with approach anxiety. I was getting IOI's, but I was letting them go.

So, my male brain thinks: "I'm getting IOI's from 7's on the street easily enough, I'll go online instead".

It was complete avoidance. And I was back on the street one week later. Still was doing the OLD stuff, because it was interesting to me.

Online, I had fat 4's completely ignoring me. I tested it for a laugh

Never in my life have I recieved this behaviour. Literally ever. It's so far beneath me that it's a joke.

Could I have learned OLD better? Sure. But it's a fvcking circus that I couldn't be bothered with.

Had plenty of 7's and 8's that would initiate with me, only to go cold. Never dealt with that much flakiness in my life. Literally no game going (I've tried them all) that is as flaky as OLD. And you don't even get the initial benefits that come with a flake.

Got tired of that sh*t real quick.

Yeah, same story and same initial thoughts.
I guess it will only go well on these sites if you have a pic of male fitness model standing in front of sportscar, then you can text every female texts like "hey girl want sum fuk?" and it will go
It's like ultra red-pill enviroment