This forum isn't helpful to anyone, just depressing...

[Nine Breaker]

The real problem that this discussion forum has encountered is not just a result of a group of individuals bragging about how great they think they are instead of giving useful and encouraging advice to people who need it.

In my opinion, I think the real problem lies in the definition of what a Don Juan is these days.

A few years ago, the general consensus in these forums was that a "Don Juan" and a "Real Man" were the same thing, and the only difference between the two was in name only. The idea behind each was not about finding ways to get as many women as possible, but for a guy to realise that he has the capacity to become anything and everything he wants to in this life. In doing so, he would likely increase his own attractiveness towards women, but at the same time, he would not be so obsessed about them and have a wide selection of things in life that gave meaning and enjoyment to him.

These days, as many of you have observed, a Don Juan is apparantly nothing more than a guy who can get with lots and lots of women. Such a guy is NOT a Don Juan - HE IS A JERK. Not in the sense that he's a bit of a bastard, but because he is a part of the Nice Guy vs Jerk cycle. Each type of guy here, regardless of each's strengths and weaknesses, share the same fundamental flaw - each sees getting a woman as the end goal, the reason for existence.

Simply put, the terms Don Juan and Real Man have become different entities from what they once meant. Because of this, combined with the gradual decline of the older posters who knew what they were talking about, we are left with a breed of teachers who are teaching false ideals. They are AFC's under the guise of being ideal and successful Don Juans.

The goal of self improvement is to better equip you for attaining your goals in life. If the goal there is being better at getting women, then you have missed the point entirely. Sure, it's something that a Don Juan / Real Man does, but it cannot be the only reason for wanting to improve yourself.

The bottom line is this: If you understand the concept of what a Don Juan / Real Man is, then feel free to share advice to those who need it the most. If you do not understand it completely, or you are still inexperienced, then go ahead and express opinions - BUT DO NOT GIVE ADVICE TO NEW GUYS if there is a chance what you want to say could be wrong.

Hope that helps.

 

[Interpol]

Originally posted by Nine Breaker

These days, as many of you have observed, a Don Juan is apparantly nothing more than a guy who can get with lots and lots of women. Such a guy is NOT a Don Juan - HE IS A JERK. Not in the sense that he's a bit of a bastard, but because he is a part of the Nice Guy vs Jerk cycle. Each type of guy here, regardless of each's strengths and weaknesses, share the same fundamental flaw - each sees getting a woman as the end goal, the reason for existence.

I never said getting a woman is "the reason for existance", but it is the primary purpose of this forum.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Juan_Man
I apologise, Wyldfire. My post was a bit uncalled for. I just get annoyed with girls that think they are hot sh!t because a guy wants to fvck them. This kind of sh!t was prevalent at my college. A 5 starts thinking that she's a 9 because a couple of desperate guys want to sleep with her. This has got to stop.

Anyways, getting back to the original poster. A good attitude is the only way you are going to succeed with women. AFCs are the guys that are afraid of approaching the girl they want because they can't take rejection or the ridicule that follows. Grow the fvck up!!!! Are you living a life for yourself or for other people? The game is a numbers game. The more you put yourself out there, the better your chances are of success. If you think a face like Brad Pitt or a body like Arnold is the only way to get the ladies then I feel sorry for you.

My brother is a pimp. He's goodlooking but he's no Denzel. And yes he has had his share of rejections but that doesn't stop him from pulling females left and right. Something to think about.

Apology accepted. Yes, there are a lot of women who think like you described. I'm not one of them. The reason men have stopped "being men" is because of feminism's hold on society. A few bored and victimstance embracing women have managed to use fear and insecurities in women to cause men to feel guilty for being men. The key to overcoming that kind of attitude and guilt men often feel is to realize the cause and resist those negative messages being sent your way. Men need to learn to embrace their manhood without guilt while still respecting and valuing women.

So many men end up on sites like this because they have conflicting messages. Their instincts are telling them to be one way and society is sending them conflicting messages. Women are victims in the feminism monster too...so many have been fooled into buying into the nonsense leading them to say they want one thing when instinctively they want something entirely different. Follow your natural instincts with women and they will likely follow theirs...

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Nine Breaker
The real problem that this discussion forum has encountered is not just a result of a group of individuals bragging about how great they think they are instead of giving useful and encouraging advice to people who need it.

In my opinion, I think the real problem lies in the definition of what a Don Juan is these days.

A few years ago, the general consensus in these forums was that a "Don Juan" and a "Real Man" were the same thing, and the only difference between the two was in name only. The idea behind each was not about finding ways to get as many women as possible, but for a guy to realise that he has the capacity to become anything and everything he wants to in this life. In doing so, he would likely increase his own attractiveness towards women, but at the same time, he would not be so obsessed about them and have a wide selection of things in life that gave meaning and enjoyment to him.

.....
The bottom line is this: If you understand the concept of what a Don Juan / Real Man is, then feel free to share advice to those who need it the most. If you do not understand it completely, or you are still inexperienced, then go ahead and express opinions - BUT DO NOT GIVE ADVICE TO NEW GUYS if there is a chance what you want to say could be wrong.

Hope that helps.

Truly Bible worthy. This is what I feel is the essence of the board, or at least what it should be.

The DJ who are truly successful are selfless in only that they would like to share their knowledge not as a self promotion, but for growth; for both others and himself.

Too often this board is used in the self promotion and social proof of DJs and DJ wannabes as a means to stroke their own ego. With that, there comes the infighting, flames and ridicule. Personal egos overcome the purpose of the board and we loose sight of why we are here, rather why we should be here.

 

[Nine Breaker]

Originally posted by Interpol
I never said getting a woman is "the reason for existance", but it is the primary purpose of this forum.

This is indeed an objective of this forum, and I do not dispute this.

What I do dispute, however, is that it is not really the primary objective of this forum to show guys how to get women.

Giving advice out to guys on how they can become more attractive, more confident, and have a better idea on how you should go about asking out women (etc..) is all well and good, but if you do so without first giving the guy directions on how he should best use this information in order to transcend the AFC ideologies, you will not solve the cause of all the problems that create AFC's in the first place.

Let me try to state this in a simpler way: It is like giving someone a gun. If you just give them the gun, and leave it at that, then it opens the door for all sorts of disasters to occur. Will the person use the gun for duck hunting, or for shortening the queue at the bank? It could be anything because we have not shown the person how to properly use the gun, and the instances when it should be used. If we did that, then we won't have to worry about this person ending up on the police 10 Most Wanted List.

This same concept applies towards the discussion forum. Sure, it exists to show guys how to get women. But first, we have to show these guys WHY they were AFC's, and what it means to be a Don Juan / Real Man. If you do it that way, then these guys will have a better chance of reaching their full potential - not only with women, but also at being men.

How to get women is one objective of this forum, but how to be a real man should be the primary objective of it. After all, a real man can easily get women after becoming a real man, but a guy who gets a woman first is not going to find becoming a real man is now easier to do (in many cases, it can be harder now).

Hope that clears up my point.

-----
Francisco d'Anconia, thanks for the compliment. I don't think what I have said needs to be repeated in the DJBIBLE, but I do think that newbies need to understand this right from the start.

 

[WeakMenNeverRise]

When I first read this post, I thought that the poster was just whining. But he does have some points. I have seen a lot of guys bragg on here and I'm like this is the internet man, we don't even know you. The biggest problem i see with the site is that it seems like guys think that there is some "MAGIC" formula to get girls. Like if you obtain x and y, then your automatically gonna get z. The C&F threads are really amusing. Its like guys don't realize that C&F is more about confidence and your PERSONALITY than learning some cheasy one liners. As far as the site goes, I still think it is a good site but I think there are some things that need to change. I'm also tired of all the posts that are sooo gloom and doom. Posts like I'm ugly and I don't know what to do. In that situation, I think the guys need to hear that they are acting like little bytches. That kind of thinking = perpetual AFC. The most important things this site should highlight are what NOT to do with females and self confidence. Anybody who has any success with women knows that these TWO things are the most important. Ask any woman on this board and she'll tell you the same thing. If you wanna get girls, and if you wanna be succesful period, you have to have confidence and inner strength. Its true, Weak Men Never Rise.

 

[SexPDX]

I may end up making multiple posts addressing multiple posters here.

There is way too much negativity going on in here. Yes, there are issues with this forum. I have complained about some of them myself in the past. But if you ARE going to complain you should also set an example by posting the kind of information YOU would like to see posted by others.

As for me when I was more active here, I always thought the most valuable information we could share with each other is our experiences with women in the real world and conclusions drawn from those experiences whether those experiences were positive or negative. If you are not posting about your experiences, maybe you are not having enough of them. If you are posting information or thoughts about the topics that are not based on your own experience of reality then maybe you are simply parrotting what you have heard other people say or reiterating the popular "DJ" position on something, whatever that may be.

Originally posted by Tha Realnezz
This site has the potential to help the most people cuz of it's sheer size and it's association with Askmen.com.

But it's not.

I agree with this to a point. I don't really read/post much anywhere anymore but the reason I read this site more than any other public group is that compared to the other forums it is very free from posting with a commercial agenda (workshops, seminars, etc.). Not that there is anything necessarily wrong with workshops and seminars (I took a workshop and benefitted immensely from it) but if there is too much of that kind of posting it absolutely kills the discussion atmosphere. That is not happening on sosuave and sosuave is a better place because of it.

Another thing that makes this a great forum is that the posters behave more like a family and less like a bunch of strangers who are trying to get the attention and admiration of one another, as tends to be the case other places. To an extent that is a problem because some posters end up using this forum as a social activity more than they do a place to learn anything, but I think it helps more than it hurts.

Anyway, THESE are the reasons I think sosuave has the potential to help more people than any other site on the subject. In fact, I would argue that it already has.

Originally posted by Tha Realnezz
Every year (the sosuave forum) slips a little more into the pit of nerd-dom and chessiness and all the veteran posters give up.

What actually goes on is that once the veteran posters become truly good at meeting and attracting women they stop reading and posting. Or maybe they got that good BECAUSE they stopped reading and posting. Hmmmm.....that's something to think about

 

[Trance]

This site helps a lot till a certain point, PERIOD.


At some point you'll understand that certain things happen to everyone, and that some situations are so identical, but you cant see that it's the same that's happening with you.
BUT WAIT!! At some point YOU WILL UNDERSTAND that its the same situation with you, and will have the mental preparation to face it, and know the possible scenarios.


This site is good, PERIOD. The bible is good, PERIOD.

 

[DjDreamer]

Yep at a certain point people begin to see patterns...

What counts on this site is experience...the wise man learns from his mistake and the wiser man learns from other people's mistakes...

Looking for positivity on the discussion forum is a mistake...the discussion forum is for those that are open for criticism and the TIPS FORUM is for those that desire a confidence boost...yin and yang...a healthy balance...

Patterns...they are every where...

 

[SexPDX]

Originally posted by Nine Breaker
(Getting women) is indeed an objective of this forum, and I do not dispute this.

What I do dispute, however, is that it is not really the primary objective of this forum to show guys how to get women.

That's a double negative, but I get your point. Hehehe...

Nine Breaker, your motives are pure and I agree with a lot of what you have said in this thread. I have been around about as long as you (under different names mind you) and I agree the forum has gone through changes as the prevailing schools of thought have changed over the years. Here is how I would reply to the above:

In the time I have not been active here, I have been involved in many things that all fall under the category of self-improvement. Instead of keeping quiet on the forum unless I had something to say on the topic of meeting and attracting women, would it be appropriate for me to come to the forum and discuss all the self-improvement activities I have been involved in that do not directly relate to meeting and attracting women? It would NOT be appropriate and the reason why is that self-improvement is NOT the topic of discussion here, meeting and attracting women IS.

I do not disagree with you that self-improvement is important and is worthy of mention but it is by and large not what we are here to talk about. If it IS so important to what goes on here then where IS it being discussed? We do have a very good Health & Fitness forum here that has been strong the entire time I have been aware of this site but that's really it for discussion of anything beyond that which is the chief topic.

Maybe you should post in suggestions and feedback and address the issue of creating more self-improvement oriented forums. Or maybe meeting & attracting women is what we should discuss here and we should confine our self-improvement activities/discussions (with the possible exception of Health & Fitness) to other venues besides sosuave.com.

 

[Craig Reeves]

Last night I made a joke about my boobs, which was actually entirely on topic, I might add. The topic was about attractive women being able to use that advantage to make things easier for them. I posted about an experience that I had and amid laughing at myself for not realizing my license was almost a year expired, I was insulted...much like what you described. I'm not one to tolerate disrespect, so if someone goes there I'm likely to be sarcastic and seething...that's just how I am.

sorry about the misunderstanding, Wylde, I feel ya, dawg.

OK, I think some of you missed the point of my post.

ThaRealness, I never meant that you should pat AFC's on the back and sympathize with them when they complain about their situations. I apologize for the misunderstanding, because I actually support the OPPOSITE of that.

I think that instead of telling them that there's no hope for them and that they will never be able to do it, try telling them how to DEAL with the situation and what they need to do to keep stuff like whatever the situation is from happening to them again.

In fact, I AGREE with you, Realness. Way too many AFC's whine and complain, but they only whine and complain because we ALLOW them to. I think you might have construed my term for "encouragement" as "sympathy" when that's not what I meant. What I meant by encouragement was to tell them to wipe there eyes, and do (insert whatever) instead of just being negative and telling them they suck. Tell them "Hey, stop feeling sorry for yourself, get out there, and make sh*t happen for you by(insert advice here)!" instead of "You're such an AFC loser, man, you suck out loud, there's not hope for you cuz you ain't got (insert DJ quality here)."

And I don't know why I keep getting yelled at in the face that looks matter. For the 10th time looks DO matter, they just don't matter with a girl who can't APPRECIATE them when YOU can!

That's the point I was making. Just because ONE girl blows you off is no reason to CHANGE yourself and your entire image. The ONLY time you need to change yourself or look is if YOU are unhappy with it. My whole point about that issue is to stop caring about what women think and to stop doing things to gain their approval. Yes, you should go to gym. Not only is it good for you but it makes you feel better and more confident (this is an immediate result of exercise, btw), but working out isn't even CLOSE to the only thing to improve yourself, nor will it magically make you a chick magnet because it will not.

My whole angle is to stop doing everything for women's approval because that isn't the way to do it.

This site is about becoming successful with women, yes. However, isn't that a PART of the self improvement process? You're not improving yourself to gain the approval of WOMEN, you are improving yourself for YOU by BECOMING good with women.

AFC's CAN do it, they just have to have the disicipline to do it. They have to want it bad enough and be willing to do what it takes to get there, but for some reason I'm getting disagreement from too many people about it. They're stuck on this "guys like us got it, and some just don't" mentallity.

 

[Interpol]

Originally posted by SexPDX

In the time I have not been active here, I have been involved in many things that all fall under the category of self-improvement. Instead of keeping quiet on the forum unless I had something to say on the topic of meeting and attracting women, would it be appropriate for me to come to the forum and discuss all the self-improvement activities I have been involved in that do not directly relate to meeting and attracting women? It would NOT be appropriate and the reason why is that self-improvement is NOT the topic of discussion here, meeting and attracting women IS.

I do not disagree with you that self-improvement is important and is worthy of mention but it is by and large not what we are here to talk about. If it IS so important to what goes on here then where IS it being discussed? We do have a very good Health & Fitness forum here that has been strong the entire time I have been aware of this site but that's really it for discussion of anything beyond that which is the chief topic.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[PYROTAK]

Originally posted by Craig Reeves

And I don't know why I keep getting yelled at in the face that looks matter. For the 10th time looks DO matter, they just don't matter with a girl who can't APPRECIATE them when YOU can!

That's the point I was making. Just because ONE girl blows you off is no reason to CHANGE yourself and your entire image. The ONLY time you need to change yourself or look is if YOU are unhappy with it. My whole point about that issue is to stop caring about what women think and to stop doing things to gain their approval. Yes, you should go to gym. Not only is it good for you but it makes you feel better and more confident (this is an immediate result of exercise, btw), but working out isn't even CLOSE to the only thing to improve yourself, nor will it magically make you a chick magnet because it will not.

My whole angle is to stop doing everything for women's approval because that isn't the way to do it.

agreed, if you are going to do anything in your life to improve it do it for your own satisfaction not because other people tell you to. Otherwise you will not have the proper motivation to improve on whatever the hell you want to improve on .

 

[Oxide]

I've read enough of this, let's talk concrete things that should definately be considered.


First. This site is about self improvement. If you think you are going to get hot women without having your sh1t together, you are a dumbass. Every single post on improving yourself (other than the constantly recycled ones) needs to be there.

Second. Posts like "I cant get a girl.." are not allowed. Dont get me wrong, i want to help guys who ask.. "I think im too short, what can i do?" or "i think girls think im too rude, what can i do?" but i simply WILL NOT look at another "I cant get a girl..but i dont know why, or how, so what the hell am i expecting by posting this?"

In fact.. i thought this was a good idea back then, i still think it is:

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27570&highlight=bring+your+crap

Third. If your suggestions are not formed in a CONSTRUCTIVE form, you are not allowed to post a suggestion at all. If you say "You are an AFC cause you suck at dancing" instead of "Try moving your hips more, hold her hands while dancing, see if that works" then you are a dumbass who should be gagged for a week.

Fourth. This thread should be stickied and forced to be looked at again. I am not pluggin myself here but nothing changed, let's fix that.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43925&highlight=thread+starters


Our problem is the new guys who post before reading anything, hoping for a quick life changing advice


What can we do about it? We could hold their account from posting for 2 weeks or so, but after that expires they might post just as much without reading anything. I really cant think of anything here, someone pitch in.


Posting in the wrong forums. I do this for a reason sometimes. Forums other than general discussion usually dont even get looked at. I dont want to spend an hour writing a thread, and then putting it somewhere where noone will look at it. This is why ill put it in discussion instead of tips, and let the mods decide.

I dont know how many guys are here that could write bible worthy posts but do not do it becuase they feel like they will A. get no responses/bad responses. or B. feel since they know it already, they dont want to bother explaining it again. The thing is, being selfish is really lame, and by getting more input on what you posted might actually expand your knowledge on the subject.

There, im fukking done and sick to hell of this topic.
Now what are we doing about this board?

 

[Panda 2000]

I had a boat once.

 

[DjDreamer]

Originally posted by Panda 2000
I had a boat once.

 

[GirlCrazy]

First. This site is about self improvement. If you think you are going to get hot women without having your sh1t together, you are a dumbass. Every single post on improving yourself (other than the constantly recycled ones) needs to be there.

That needed to be said. Thank you.

Third. If your suggestions are not formed in a CONSTRUCTIVE form, you are not allowed to post a suggestion at all.

Who is to say what's constructive? Some need the verbal equivalent of an asz kicking before they will learn. It's called tough love. If my brother comes to me and asks why he can't get women, anything less than "Cause you're a fvcking loser maybe?" would be coddling him. The truth hurts, and well it should.

We are all brothers, it's true. But is coddling and hand-holding the best solution to building the next generation of alpha males?

Most guys here use the board as a substitute for real life experience. Success comes through experience, and experience comes through failure. It's all about risk versus reward, and in this sterile, politically correct, risk-averse world, how can they ever reap the rewards of success?

Fourth. This thread should be stickied and forced to be looked at again. I am not pluggin myself here but nothing changed, let's fix that.

Agreed. Just as the German villagers were force to look at the concentration camps they had created, so should we be forced to face the abomination that this board has become. It's not pretty.

 

[Delta]

primary focus of this board is NOT self improvement!

is it?!

i'm a nuby afc (thank you very much) and my life is living hell that is one way or another a reflection of lethal weapon 1's 'having the gun in your mouth but not quite popping the trigger... quite yet' scene.

to say that self improvement trumps getting the girl is like telling a man dying of thirst that democracy is more important than water.

yeah, self improvement blah blah blah, do it for yourself blah blah blah... but if you are such a dateless wonder that your every breath screams with dejection, loneliness and desperation... it's really not about self improvement anymore.

it's just trying to keep it together enough so that you don't go over the edge in one of countless, myriad and frequently entertaining ways.

you need that drop of water... fvck democracy.

fvck self improvement.
--------------------------------------------------
but therein lies the rub... the catch-22.

to get it, your only hope is to FRONT. because you need to NOT need it... but not needing it comes from plenty... not deprivation.

the bible (holy, not dj) really is right about this: those who have will get more, those who don't, even what they have will be taken from them.

--------------------------------------------------

for you guys that don't understand how this feels... god bless ya. you will never quite understand and be grateful that you can't.

but it is a big, wretched problem that to many of us is not a laughing matter when we stare into our souls in the dark.
--------------------------------------------------

i know that there are lots of guys jumping in wanting a quick fix. i'm not quite that - but i understand.

and i have compassion for my fellow sufferers.

but i'm quite sure that compassion is not enough.

the first post as well as the truly heartless ones afterward i feel are both right.

for some, it probably is truly, desperately, hopeless (and no, i'm not ripping on others.... i fear this most for myself) and perhaps no amount of compassion, encouragement and hand holding will in the end prove to be useful.

it is a hard cruel world for the afc.

and sometimes, the answer is simply that there is no hope. and that fellows is what we mean when we say that life is not fair.... it really is not.

and at the very least, there are probably many here who are beyond the help or scope of this forum.

and that maybe should be a part of dj bible too... how to know when you need more help than the forum can provide and where to get it without getting ripped off.

delta

 

[dearsappho]

The only reason I sometimes doubt this forum is the fact that there are only 14,500 members. I bet only a fraction of these post anything of true relevance to the game.
Who's to say that such a tiny group of people cant be wrong?

 

[FM 3321]

This forum is actually great for "quick fix" advice. If you're having a problem with a girl, instead of calling your clueless friends and relatives for advice you come here for help. You won't get any better advice anywhere else. People who post on this forum have the type of knowledge that could better help your situation.

When it comes to over all improvement I think it's better to read the more established written material like the DJ Bible, recommended books, Ross Jeffries, David DeAngelo, and other related sources. Sometimes browsing the forum to increase your knowledge could confuse you. It's confused me.

The bottom line is that we all need to practice improving our skills with women and work on eliminating our insecurities. It's not easy for some but those who are willing to make the change are way ahead of other men who are seeking women in our society.