The Whole Emotional Tampon Thing

[playboy_supreme]

Wyldfire. "if a woman cheats once, she will cheat again" isnt that incentive for him to nail the girl then let her go back to her bf in the knowledge that he can now nail her again if he so desires because that statement is true?

 

[JesterX]

after shes done her little rant. say "but at the end of the day, I bet you still really love him"

What do you think the effect of saying this would be? i dont see how this would raise her interest in me. or is this just to shut her up?

 

[thederekeffect1]

I'm going to have to agree with Wyldfire, and that doesn't happen too often (it didn't used to, anyway). There are a few people telling us their story's to prove that wyldfire is wrong. Here's mine: A woman breaks up with her boyfriend for me. She breaks up with me for him. She breaks up with him for another guy. She breaks up with the other guy for me. She breaks up with me for the other guy. She cheated on him, she cheated on me, she cheated on him again, she cheated on the other guy, she cheated on me again, and now she's with the other guy. I've had enough.

She's an extreme example of women who cheat. And we're all extreme examples of guys who honestly believed that she wouldn't. The worst part is that we were all friends at one time.

Alright, but you don't need my story to tell you that. Just like I don't need your story for proof that there are exceptions. If a woman cheats on someone with you, the chances of her cheating on you are pretty high. It's not worth taking that chance.

 

[JonJack]

It's not worth taking that chance.

Only if you fear infidelity. I really don't believe I can fully protect myself from getting cheated on. It really is a tall order. Since I can't prevent it from happening to me 100% of the time, I ask myself why should I even bother trying to cut the girl off before she actually does it. Then it hits me that it is because I've already made up my mind that she's gonna cheat on me. I ask myself if this is something I should be doing. Should I come to conclusions so easily? Should I act on these assumptions? If these assumptions are wrong, would I regret it? Usually I'll regret it because I always think that anything could happen, even if it's improbable. What the heck, why not just see what happens in the end? Since anything could happen, I would really like to see what actually happens. Cheat or faithful, I'll always be able to enjoy myself. Besides, emotional damage isn't something too devastating for my well being. Why not just experience the darn thing? Plus it's not like I'm not even enjoying my time banging and hanging out with her.

How I rationalize about this issue has got me puzzled about people in general. It seems as if a lot of people are indeed emotionally fragile. Men and women alike. But no one really likes to admit it.

 

[thederekeffect1]

Some god points, JonJack (don't know if I should call you Jon or Jack, lol). And I agree with you 100%. I shouldn't have said "it's not worth taking that chance", because sometimes it is. After all, theres a chance that ANY girl will cheat on you. Even if she's never cheated before.

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyldfire. "if a woman cheats once, she will cheat again" isnt that incentive for him to nail the girl then let her go back to her bf in the knowledge that he can now nail her again if he so desires because that statement is true?

I get the impression that this guy is looking more for a girlfriend. That's just what I'm picking up on...and this would not be a good girlfriend. On top of that...with all the guys who come on here and get all worked up over their girlfriend having some other guy pursuing her...I just think it's really in POOR taste for a guy to do that to his fellow man. I can't respect people who do that. I don't respect women that do that, either. It's just so NOT cool.

 

[Tomatoes]

You sound like every girls "Gay best friend"

 

[aBAzLLnA]

Sigh, whatever happened to being a good person? Personally, if a person has a problem I'll listen to what they have to say and help them out. If that means I'm being an emotional tampon, then I'm being one. But how come we aren't trying to be better people, trying to help others out? I mean, to a certain extent, if the person doesn't listen to your advice then there's no point in even trying to talk to them, however if there's that chance that you might help them out, why not?

Also, I'm sure there's someway you can pick up the chick by listening to her problems. For sure there is.

 

[JHeights83rd]

a more moral person?

originally posted by aBAzLLnA
Personally, if a person has a problem I'll listen to what they have to say and help them out. If that means I'm being an emotional tampon, then I'm being one.

From my experience, if youre a girl's friend, and shes talking to you about her problems, alot of times she doesnt want you to try and solve them, unless she asks. (Wyldfire please correct me if im wrong, for friends, not couples) She just wants to pour them out on you and vent. You should remain neutral. You should be the good person and listen especially if shes really stressed about it or gets low-self esteem or something. aBazllna, youre a man, you dont want to give a girl to come crying to you, while she goes out and fs other dudes. Thats degrading. Listening is not the problem, its throwing in your 2 cents like if you were one of her gay friends thats the problem. When you do this please dont lie to yourself, you have an ulterior motive that you want her to see you. one of my friends says that she recognized 1 day, that subconsciously, she reacts to her nice-guy friends the same way she does to her gay friends.

originally posted by aBAzLLnA
I'm sure there's someway you can pick up the chick by listening to her problems. For sure there is.

No. If you are giving your input (whether she asked for it or not) or If she is pouring out her problems on you, in detail, then this is an indicator that she feels too comfortable with you. If you add your input, she will probably start reacting to you more like a gay friend.

You talked about being a good person helping her with her problems, but you want to make it a pick up, you wanna nutt just like the rest of us, hows that any more moral? This is just like the nice-guy who keeps volunteering to pay a girls' utility bills so that she somehow sees how much he does for her and how nice he can be. (youre volunteering youre input)

 

[aBAzLLnA]

No, I'm not gay. But then again, in my situation I already have a girl. *shrug* I help counsel a lot of my friends, whenever they got problems they come to me. Then again, that's just my opinion, and I'm not tryin to bed any of them.

 

[JHeights83rd]

daddy method

i never said you were gay. Im saying that telling a girl, "yeah that guy, he doesnt do enough to make you happy, you deserve to be treated better," this is a tendency of gay friends. If she asks for you to tell her something to do thats different. If she is interested in you, and she does not want to destroy the mystery and chemistry between you, then she most likely will not comfront you with a problem. Thats good that you counsel friends, i try to help a friend out, when its solicited.
I think you're right, that theres 1 way to pick up a girl listening to her problems. You have to make it into a daddy/daughter relationship, and be more judgemental of her. Making yourself seem like the all knowing father, coming to you for advice. Church ministers sometimes have this angle with women, thats how they mack to them. But you have to give advice as tough love, and giving her direction for the future and stuff like that. This is the type of advice fathers give.
"Im gonna tell you about ... and therefore, you should do... this way next time."

I think, in order to execute this correctly, you need to be pretty experienced with women that you know where the boundaries are. YOu do not want to start to get up her azz, which is probably the #1 turnoff to women. What you do not want to do is give some nurturing advice that mommy would give her son. The type involving sensitivity and tenderness.

"OH your man has treated you like crap, he has neglected you, and you have been so strong for putting up with not being loved the right way. I understand everything you are going through, and you need to look around for the right man to treat you with nothing but love and care"

Im not saying you do this. But i think that any dj on here who is not experienced with women (ie, in the player stage) will not know how to do this daddy technique right, and theyll probably start simping, and then turning into one of those sensitive new age guys. Can we both agree that the 2nd method will make her have that reaction to you like someone whos not interested in her? Ive seen the daddy technique done, but it isnt a fast lay one, it takes longer to get her into you like that and probably takes about 2 months.

 

[THE_ADDMAN]

What do you think the effect of saying this would be? i dont see how this would raise her interest in me. or is this just to shut her up?

she knows why she keeps going back to him. show her that you know why too. you'd be surprised how often the woman will say "yeah... thats true "

also, I remember hearing something how if you start bashing her bf, she'll defend him. do the opposite and so will she.

tell her that you're sure hes a really good guy deep down. say that and she'll start telling you everything wrong with him.

field-tested. ADDMAN approved.

 

[Wyldfire]

From my experience, if youre a girl's friend, and shes talking to you about her problems, alot of times she doesnt want you to try and solve them, unless she asks. (Wyldfire please correct me if im wrong, for friends, not couples) She just wants to pour them out on you and vent. You should remain neutral. You should be the good person and listen especially if shes really stressed about it or gets low-self esteem or something. aBazllna, youre a man, you dont want to give a girl to come crying to you, while she goes out and fs other dudes. Thats degrading. Listening is not the problem, its throwing in your 2 cents like if you were one of her gay friends thats the problem. When you do this please dont lie to yourself, you have an ulterior motive that you want her to see you. one of my friends says that she recognized 1 day, that subconsciously, she reacts to her nice-guy friends the same way she does to her gay friends.


No. If you are giving your input (whether she asked for it or not) or If she is pouring out her problems on you, in detail, then this is an indicator that she feels too comfortable with you. If you add your input, she will probably start reacting to you more like a gay friend.

You talked about being a good person helping her with her problems, but you want to make it a pick up, you wanna nutt just like the rest of us, hows that any more moral? This is just like the nice-guy who keeps volunteering to pay a girls' utility bills so that she somehow sees how much he does for her and how nice he can be. (youre volunteering youre input)

Never give a woman advice unless she specifically asks you to tell you what she should do or something similar to that. Men and women sort out their problems very differently. Men will try to solve the problem on their own and will typically only talk about it if they get stuck and are looking for input and advice. Women are the opposite. Women talk about their problems and just talking about them helps her sort out what she's going to do on her own. If she can't work it out on her own after talking herself through it and processing the situation she will then ask for advice or input. If you try to "help" a woman while she's still trying to sort it out herself she's going to likely get frustrated with you and possibly snap at you for interferring in what she needs to do to process things.

Men have a deep misunderstanding of being "nice". They tend to assume that women don't really like men who are nice. That's honestly not true at all. Women DO want men to be nice to them. The problem is that men have the bad habit of mis-defining "nice". To men, "nice" means pretending to be a friend to a woman in order to try to make her fall in love with you and doing favors while having ulterior motives. That isn't what "nice" really means. Nice just means beling polite, behaving like a gentleman, having a good heart and treating people with respect and courtesy. There really isn't anything at all "nice" about offering friendship to a woman with unspoken expectations, ulterior motives and strings attached. That's actually rather cruel and underhanded. Women are able to be just friends with a man without ever thinking about things being romantic or sexual. Men can't really do that because they are just wired differently than women. If a man is romantically interested in a woman he needs to make that clear to her right from the start. He can still be nice (the true meaning of the word) while making his romantic interest clear. He can even hang out and be friends but if there is any romantic interest he can't hide it because if he does that and waits to tell her what he's really interested in she will most likely not want to date you because she doesn't want to lose your friendship if it doesn't work out.

It's not being nice that puts a guy in the dreaded "friend zone"...is dishonesty about his intentions and then usually very disturbing reactions if she doesn't want to risk the friendship. You can't misrepresent yourself and expect her to want to date you because when she realizes you have not been honest with her she is feeling misled, betrayed and very confused by the flippy behavior often exhibited by guys who do this kind of thing.

 

[JHeights83rd]

nice

Wyldfire, first time im having discussion with you. Whats good. yes men and women have different ideas of being nice. I think it would help if you knew what being nice means for men.

In elementry school, everybody was nice to eachother b/c parents said be nice and tv shows the moral of the story is 'if they would have just been nice,
But then, middle school, men's natural desire to be top dawg, while at the same time dissing other guys, starts to kick in. combined with a man's desire for cash and azz. Certain men have more of this desire than others, so therefore, in middle school, certain guys play other guys to make themselves look good. for a man getting dissed is a b!+ch so we build thick skin to protect ourselves from this. This includes having the mindset of being able to comeback to any verbal situation, and having swagger so that you dont look soft. For me, high school was hell, i was walking around the halls trying to look mean so that gangs wouldnt f with me, but ofcourse i got jumped a few times. I think the reason for this and that i didnt get girls in high school was a type of loser air i put out in my voice tone and body language. but anyway, for middle school on, men are conditioned not to be nice, over the years. Now men can be nice, but its one of the many faces we put on depending on the situation. (sometimes you have to put on your *******/jerk face and put somebody in their place) This type of thing happens in high schools in the suburbs too, i go to university right now with some kids from the suburbs and some from the cities.

Nice meaning generous, inoffensive, to other people. (donating to hurricane katrina fund or doing charity is not annoying b/c you know its going to a good cause) also characterized by too much interest in other people. Being too nice mostly is showing all of these characteristics too early with people, without making them earn it. You dont know them or what their intentions are.

NOw, theres some guys who really havent lived in high school and middle school. My buddy back at home in my boy scout troop was home schooled all his life, and his mother nurtured him too much. This can be results that can happen with guys raised by single mothers, a problem that doesnt have to be that serious if its dealt with right way. Now hes really soft, and delicate, and body language communicating that he is submissive and easy to get chumped. And therefore the sweet kid got jumped by crips like me. This is where only knowing niceness got him. So now, as his leader in his troop one of the things i have my block help do is expose him to other things besides the 'nice' that his mother exposes him to too much. teach him how to have body language thats not submissive, teach him how to fight, teach him how to diss people for his own benefit so that hes a real man. its better than just teaching him how

Had i not helped this kid, he would go out into the world, being nice, the only thing he knows how to do, and life would continue to ***t on him, and hell get alot of anger focused inward. His niceness doesnt always come back to him, and does not get him rewards. over the years more anger. This is what turns nice guys into nice-guys, this anger over the years.

 

[JHeights83rd]

Now i know its probably hard for you to look at the world this way b/c youre a woman, and because of how society is, but where has a man ever gotten by staying in the box and being very nice. the box of generous, inoffensive, polite, courtesy to others. The CEOs who make it can step to the edge of the box. Gangs who dont step out of the box dont make any money. This is how men think, and unfortunately, b/c of how society is, (its male centered), this is true. that men get nowhere being always staying in the box. OOOOk so therefore

first of all, men dont mostly miscontrue the word nice. The phrase, 'nice-guy' is what gets miscontrued. the word can be said as 1 word for us, to communicate that idea. Nice guy (2 words) will be a little bit different to us. Because according to men, we get nowhere being nice, nice-guy has a puzzy connotation. For us, nice guy is the guy who starts a track race, where its crowded, and he gets run over by everybody else at the starting line, then winds up starting the race in last place. they are the guys who refuse to take part in the fight of life and expect life to hand them something at the end. This is what nice-guys expect by being nice. This why guys think of being very nice as a bad thing. Do YOu get me?

NOw youre right that nice guys who have been around on the feild a long time have anger problems. These guys turn into nice-guys, who act all nice in the girls' face and do everything to make her happy. (this is annoying to do for a man, and no man will do this for some girl he just met for no reason, he wants something) When these guys get to a peer, like me, they start cursing and ***t, like "that b***h, im so nice to her, i do everything and she picked that bum, i hope her new man beats her up." "when i see her now, im gonna be a jerk because she doesnt like men who treat her good." They wont do this kind of behavior to average looking women. Also nice-guys usually have ridiculously high standards of beauty. Right now, with some of the youngns on my block at home are having issues with this. And other guys at my school not good with women the same thing. They complain about how women dont like them because they treat them nicely.
look at this link by a nice girl who dumped her nice-guy
http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/sfo/70710302.html
The reason they dont do well is their intention is too be very cordial and formal, so that she gets comfortable with them, so she falls in love with them so now they can... with trying to do this, the convos are too serious and not that interesting. Youre saying for nice-guys to express their interest early, but alot of convos these guys have, its the type where at the end of the interaction, that chick'll be like "fiewww, i got out of that safe, thank goodness he didnt get the idea in his head that he had grabbing rights" If you have an interesting, emotionally moving, funny convo, you dont need to flat out express interest right off the bat like that.

Personally, with me, im not affected by a woman's beauty. I can be friends with girls that i would bang. for a girl to be in the potential girl friend she has to have the personality i like, im really picky with that. But yeah you can be nice, but you shouldnt shoot to be nice, shoot for being real. so ultimately, if ure a nice-guy, youll be scaling back on the niceness you put out. Guys are going to be less nice if they stop rewarding women with niceness, just because they met the ridiculously high standards of beauty.
guys that get girls cannot be described as 'hes really really nice... sweet' theyre nice but not very nice.
So i hope i helped you understand why men act very nice, and why men have to know how to be other things besides nice.

 

[Wyldfire]

Oh, I know the difference between a man's definition of "nice guy" and a woman's. I've had the displeasure of learning first hand what the difference is.


A woman's definition of a nice guy is a man who is nice because being nice makes him feel good, and that in itself is reward enough for him.

A man's definition of a nice guy is a man who is nice because he expects others to reward him for being nice...and if they don't meet his unspoken expectations (which he never informs people that he has) he punishes them by no longer being nice and often being rather nasty.

In most cases, the male's "nice guy" really isn't nice at all. In fact, he's manipulative...always scheming, being phony, planning his moves and actions deviously. Originally he schemes by pretending to be really nice...but when his expectations aren't met, he schemes maliciously and with the intent of being hurtful...all because the girl he never bothered to inform of his romantic interest in her didn't fall in love with or feel attraction for him. Nevermind that you can't really choose who you are and aren't attracted to or that after months or even years of developing a friend relationship with you she just can't see you romantically. Afterall...for all that time you were building up this imaginary romance with her in your mind...she thought you were her buddy. Then you spring it on her that you love her...but she doesn't see you that way because you've been her friend all this time. She doesn't want to mess up the friendship you led her to believe you shared. And then POW! You punish her for not returning your feelings by taking away your friendship. She's left feeling hurt, betrayed, and comes to the painful realization that even though she was always honest about the status of your relationship and she really considered you her friend...that you were a fraud and that you never really were her friend afterall and that you lied to her, misled her and aren't nice at all...that you're actually rather cruel.

So basically...a woman's definition of a nice guy is just that...a nice guy. A man's definition of a nice guy is anything but nice.

(The "you" in my post is referring to no specific person...just the typical guy who does the phony friend thing. Just want to clarify that before anyone takes it personally or as if it was directed towards them.)

 

[aBAzLLnA]

Im not saying you do this. But i think that any dj on here who is not experienced with women (ie, in the player stage) will not know how to do this daddy technique right, and theyll probably start simping, and then turning into one of those sensitive new age guys. Can we both agree that the 2nd method will make her have that reaction to you like someone whos not interested in her? Ive seen the daddy technique done, but it isnt a fast lay one, it takes longer to get her into you like that and probably takes about 2 months.

Couple things. Yes I agree that the technique you've just described might work, which is along the lines of what I was thinking of, however, how ****ed up is that? Also, anyone in the right mind would never spend so much energy just to get some ass, and you are right in saying it's not a quick lay. Finally, this technique should never be put to use. Why? Moral reasons, it's just too ****ed up lol.

Anyway, I've been told that women don't like to be given advice and it's been my own ignorance that leads me to keep making the same mistake. As I always try to help out my fiance, however, she doesn't respond well...HMM... There's evidence that we all never stop learning.

But isn't that an interesting phenomenon right there? The fact that women don't like being given advice, whereas men do? What is it that makes a woman think that way? What is it about women that only want a shoulder to cry on and time to dwell on the problem? I mean, in my view, the man's view, it only makes sense to gather as much information as possible and try to implement the most sensible solution. Hmm... I might have to write about this for my socio class...

Cheers.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

JESTERX: Women have two kinds of friends - Girlfriends and Boyfriends. If you're not fvcking her, you're her Girlfriend.

You've wasted enough time, now put this girl off and get out in the field and sarge. The main reason guys entertain the idea that men and women can be "friends" is because it's just one more buffer against potential rejection from prospective women. The mentality is that the longer you try to prove yourself to be a better boyfriend, by identifying with her, by embodying the things she 'says' she's looking for or wishes she could change in her current 'Jerk' boyfriend, the clouds will someday part, the Angels will sing and she'll see you as the guy she's "really looking for" when in reeality she'll simply go fvck the Jerk half an hour after you hang up with her.

All of this really just amounts to you being fearfull of rejection from new, potential women, and delays this rejection for as long as you "work on" getting your "friend" to realize what a swell guy you are. You essentially become a surrogate boyfriend for her - fulfilling all the emotional and security needs the Jerk isn't providing with no expectation of reciprocating intimacy on her part. It's an ideal situation for a woman and is analogous to a guy with a Booty Call - unconditional sex with no expectation of reciprocation of security or emotional support.

 

[Egoist]

JESTERX: Women have two kinds of friends - Girlfriends and Boyfriends. If you're not fvcking her, you're her Girlfriend.

You've wasted enough time, now put this girl off and get out in the field and sarge. The main reason guys entertain the idea that men and women can be "friends" is because it's just one more buffer against potential rejection from prospective women. The mentality is that the longer you try to prove yourself to be a better boyfriend, by identifying with her, by embodying the things she 'says' she's looking for or wishes she could change in her current 'Jerk' boyfriend, the clouds will someday part, the Angels will sing and she'll see you as the guy she's "really looking for" when in reeality she'll simply go fvck the Jerk half an hour after you hang up with her.

All of this really just amounts to you being fearfull of rejection from new, potential women, and delays this rejection for as long as you "work on" getting your "friend" to realize what a swell guy you are. You essentially become a surrogate boyfriend for her - fulfilling all the emotional and security needs the Jerk isn't providing with no expectation of reciprocating intimacy on her part. It's an ideal situation for a woman and is analogous to a guy with a Booty Call - unconditional sex with no expectation of reciprocation of security or emotional support.

what the dude said..

girls can be sweet, girls can be nice, but if you are not fvcking her, you are her b!tch ass gay girlfriend.

as simple as that.

 

[insanity]

Couple things. Yes I agree that the technique you've just described might work, which is along the lines of what I was thinking of, however, how ****ed up is that? Also, anyone in the right mind would never spend so much energy just to get some ass, and you are right in saying it's not a quick lay. Finally, this technique should never be put to use. Why? Moral reasons, it's just too ****ed up lol.

Anyway, I've been told that women don't like to be given advice and it's been my own ignorance that leads me to keep making the same mistake. As I always try to help out my fiance, however, she doesn't respond well...HMM... There's evidence that we all never stop learning.

But isn't that an interesting phenomenon right there? The fact that women don't like being given advice, whereas men do? What is it that makes a woman think that way? What is it about women that only want a shoulder to cry on and time to dwell on the problem? I mean, in my view, the man's view, it only makes sense to gather as much information as possible and try to implement the most sensible solution. Hmm... I might have to write about this for my socio class...

Cheers.

exactly! women don't take advice and if they do....it's the opposite.

example
girl- i hate my boyfriend, he's such a prick.

you- well then why don't you leave him.(heart starts racing)

girl- he never listens to me.

you- like i said, leave him.

girl- last week he was so sweet, but this week i hate him.

you- you should really leave him if he makes you this mad.(is she even listening to me?)

girl- (cell phone ring) hi....blabber,blabber.

you- who was that?

girl- oh nobody special. well i gotta go thatnks for listening to me.

you- remember what i told you. don't go back unless you want to get hurt!

girl- your so sweet i wish he was more like you.

you- (heart starts pounding...she likes me.)

next day...

you- so did you take my advice?

girl- last night i forgave him because he bought me flowers and we got a hotel room.

you- i thought you hated him.

girl- i did, but last night was so special if you know what i mean.

you- he's just going to hurt you again.

girl- anyways, so how come you don't have a girlfriend yet?

you- i like a girl but she has a boyfriend right now.(frowns)

girl- girls would be stupid to not go out with you, your so NICE.

you- if i'm so nice then how come i don't have a girl.

girl- girls are stupid sometime.

you- you got that right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!