The "What are we doing" question ...

[Rhoto]

So I've been dating this girl very casually - I'd see her once or maybe twice a week, usually drinks/dinner and then get to business. We've been enjoying each others company for about 5 months. A glorified booty call if you will.

I made it clear I wasn't looking for a monogamous relationship and she felt the same way. I didn't really spend time with her otherwise - in a relationship sense, I made my intentions pretty clear. I don't really know a whole lot about her aside from the basics, and I tried to be as private as possible, I wanted to keep it focused on sex and fun. It seemed to be working.

But come last weekend on the way back to her place to drop her off, she starts with -

H - "Rhoto, I think I have feelings for you."
R - "Hmm"
H - "We've been sleeping with each other for almost 6 months, but I feel like I don't know you."
R - "What do you want to know?"
H - "I don't know. I just feel like I don't know you. I don't want to feel like this, like I'm the only one who cares."
R - (I paused for a good 2-3 minutes with a "hardened" expression)
H - "Aren't you going to say anything? - How do you feel about me?"
R - "What do you mean? I like you, I like what we have. Don't you?"
H - "Yes....I do."(seemed kind of forced)

Nothing is said for the rest of the ride, but there is definite tension in the car. So I drop her off, good kiss and I'm off. About 20 minutes later I get a text from her - "What are we doing?"

I didn't respond, and still haven't. I like this chick, shes cool, classy and hot. And hot in the sense she was the kind of girl I was terrified of in high school and college. I admit I haven't spent a lot of non-physical time with her, but I can't help but feel - guilty. But it pisses me off that I feel that way.

Have I reached a point where I need to make a decision? I can smell the "I want a serious relationship" coming, and I don't want one right now, I have much more important things to focus on. I would like to keep sleeping with this chick, and maybe at a later time pursue something more serious, just not now.

How can I convey that effectively without betting the farm? Or does it come with the territory? Most of my dating experience hasn't lasted this long, things don't last for more than 2-3 months with me.

I'm spinning three other plates right now, so its not really an issue about women, I want to keep this chick in my rotation.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[backbreaker]

you should never be forced to make a decision. if you are forced to make a decision, you just made the deicision,a nd that's that you are not ready to move forward yet.

If she doesn't like what's goign on she can opt out. but right now this is where you are at. you like having sex and spending a little with her. if you want something more from her, you will know it.

sometimes you have to be willing to let one go for the betterment of the entire rotation. All relationships aren't meant to last forever. maybe this one has run it's course.nothing wrong with that. she seems to want something that you are not willing to give her.

 

[DJDamage]

How can I convey that effectively without betting the farm? Or does it come with the territory? Most of my dating experience hasn't lasted this long, things don't last for more than 2-3 months with me.

It comes with the territory man.

If you don't want a relationship, there is not a whole lot you can do.

She will try to entrap you if she doesn't see that she is getting a commitment out of you.

You might have to let this one go pretty soon because drama is about to ensue...

 

[vitor]

Hmmm, Options

1. Tell her you do not want a relationship in which she will
1a. Stop seeing/talking/****ing you
1b. She will get upset drop it and bring it up next week
1c. **** you hang out and look for somthing better

I would just tell her you like her a lot and things are going very well. We are having a great time together etc.. Delay this as long as possiable. Are you dating other chicks? What is your apprehension for not dating her, I assume you have a good reason;

 

[blueblue]

re: OP

I don’t care what anyone says…………………these things are never emotional free……..NEVER!!!


Now that's one of the easy ones...................




What else seems to confuses you?

 

[Rhoto]

Thanks for the feedback fellas, its gotten me thinking.

A bit of an update - I had a voice mail waiting for me when I got back from the gym. Verbatim -
"Hey Rhoto, I may have plans with [some dude] tonight. I know we usually kick it on Fridays and ****, but I promised him that we'd hang out. We're probably going to get some tapioca and watch that movie, Watchmen. (A movie that I had expressed interest in seeing the last time we hung out) I hope you don't mind. Anyyyyyyways, call me back babe."

My first reaction was a - do you think I'm stupid? Like I can't see what you're trying to do?

Then I caught myself - its working.

What else seems to confuses you?

Why my emotions are so conflicted. There isn't a lot to be attached to, but something keeps drawing me back. I dig her a lot but its not for a reason I can put a finger on. Am I jealous? I'd be lying if I said no. But I'm also not worried about it - about her going out with this other dude mainly because I know what kind of girl she is, I think.

But I shouldn't be that concerned about what she does with her time, because she doesn't make it her business what I do with mine.

sometimes you have to be willing to let one go for the betterment of the entire rotation. All relationships aren't meant to last forever. maybe this one has run it's course.nothing wrong with that. she seems to want something that you are not willing to give her.

Ya man, you're probably right. I've been mulling over this for the better part of the week and realized that I saw her as a challenge from the past, a challenge that I wanted to feel the satisfaction of conquering.

But I have to admit, I fear regret. I don't want to be kicking myself down the road.

I would just tell her you like her a lot and things are going very well. We are having a great time together etc.. Delay this as long as possiable. Are you dating other chicks? What is your apprehension for not dating her, I assume you have a good reason;

I see where you're coming from Vitor, but I honestly don't feel terribly comfortable doing that. I'm not able to give her what she wants, so I don't want to lead her on y'know? Feels wrong.

I don't want to get serious with her cause there are too many other chicks out there. Its like when you buy a car, the next year the model gets upgraded.

I am dating two other chicks frequently with another, who is just down.

You might have to let this one go pretty soon because drama is about to ensue..

Yeah. You're right.

Still feel sketch about this, but lets see what develops.

Thanks for the input guys.

 

[The_411]

Gotta laugh a little bit about this one, because of the 6 months and I don't know you line.

Rhoto, you are doing an excellent job my man. You understand what's up here.

****y funny is the best way to go along with subject change whenever she brings this stuff up again.

Of course you can't put this off forever and eventually she'll bail if you don't commit.

 

[WaterTiger]

This is why those "phuck buddy" things never last. Somebody always gets emotionally attached. (Usually the girl) Then it becomes a messy situation with one person trying to tie the other down when personal freedom was the basis for the whole relationship.
Women have trouble wrapping their head around the idea that you can sleep with her for months and NOT care for her past the physical act.

*Every month or so you have to go over the ground rules. "Listen baby, this is all just for fun! No strings or anything!"

*NEVER call it making love. Call it what it is...phucking.

*DO NOT introduce her to friends or family. She'll get the idea that she's actually a part of your life.

*DON'T bring her over to your place. Go to her place or a hotel. The less she sees of where you live the less she'll think about how to redecorate when she moves in.

 

[squirrels]

When you tell them you're not looking for a serious relationship, they will protest, then agree, then pretend you never said it and go ahead trying to set you up for a serious relationship.

If you can endure her continually trying to mind-f*ck you, take WT's advice. But FB relationships only last so long with most NORMAL women. Soon they start leaving things at your place, or having relatives just "show up" to parties, sisters, brothers, parents, etc.

The thing is, if I could find a woman to date who didn't pull all this sh!t trying to force me into commitment, I'd probably ask her to marry me.

 

[vitor]

Well I would just stop calling her and if she wants to hang out great, but after her little attempt to make you Jealous, and you not wanting to commit it is best to just lay low. I agree with others you have handled this well and although my plan is slight decietful I respect your williness to be as straight up as possiable with her. I think if you call her up and say hey lets grab dinner, see a movie she see's it as a date, and you see it as a hookup. When I take women out it is 9 out of 10 times something I want to do. I am in the mood for mexican and I want to see that movie, or go to this comedy club, or this bbq with my friends. When they are having family functions, or stupid **** I do not want to go to I am MIA

 

[Tazman]

I'd say keep doing what you're doing, if she can't take it anymore let her leave. You have nothing to be sorry or guilty about. I'd love to know how she responds to your "non response" about her going out with that other dude out of spite.

I always find it amusing when their attempts to manipulate are foiled. In fact since I've become good at recognizing these things it provides a nice source of entertainment.

 

[Rhoto]

Thanks for the reaffirmation guys, all advice is welcomed and helpful. A bit of an update but -

Tiger you made some very solid and common sense points. I've tried my best to make it clear through my actions what our relationship was about. I have had her over to my place a few times but she hasn't come close to meeting family, important friends, co-workers etc. She doesn't even know what I do for a living, just that I work in the Financial Sector (or whats left of it :nervous

Squirrels I fear you may be right about whats going on. The voice mail she left was an uncharacteristically apologetically ..... cheerful.

Vitor I think you struck something there in regards to the frame of reference - Hookup vs Date. I believe my best plan of action is to disappear for a bit.

So last night, she went on her apparent date with the other guy, I called up a couple of old friends and we hit a local champagne bar in the city. Great time, chopping it up about old times, new adventures and what we were planning on doing the future. At about 1:45-2am (around last call) she calls me.

I was pretty buzzed and had been discussing this situation with my friends and they egged me on to answer, so I did. It was pretty simple conversation I think -

R - Yeah?
H - Heyyy you, what are you up to?
R - Out with friends downtown
H - Oh really? Where at? You're not being bad are you? (In a cheery, flirty tone)
R - Always... What do you need?
H - Can we talk?
R - Ehhhhh, not right now, I'm kind of occupied. Try me later.
H - Fine. (You know that tone)
R - Cool, later.

So that's it for the night, I come home crash out. I get woken up by my phone - 3 missed calls - 1 text

"R u mad at me?"

My roommate said she called the land line too. An ill omen.

I believe my best approach is to play it cool for the weekend. My building is pretty well secured, so I don't expect any surprise pop-ins. But let see what develops.

Thanks again,

Rhoto

 

[Mr. Me]

A bit of an update - I had a voice mail waiting for me when I got back from the gym. Verbatim -
"Hey Rhoto, I may have plans with [some dude] tonight. I know we usually kick it on Fridays and ****, but I promised him that we'd hang out. We're probably going to get some tapioca and watch that movie, Watchmen. (A movie that I had expressed interest in seeing the last time we hung out) I hope you don't mind. Anyyyyyyways, call me back babe."

My man, I know you know what that was about. So let me ask you: she does this today, what do you think she's gonna do in all your tomorrows whenever she wants to poke you in the balls?

What she did was unacceptable behavior. She's OUT. No woman treats you like that and gets to keep you.

"R u mad at me?"

Of course. She wants confirmation that she got to you.
Why do you think she called last night while you were out?

You shouldn't just "play it cool" for the weekend.
Play it cool forever. Here's the deal: To be forgiven her trespass against you, she has to

1. call and apologize.

And by "apologize" I don't mean "I'm sorry, but you made me angry/I had PMS/I had to see if I mean anything to you or not." That's not an apology. An apology admits responsibility: "I'm really sorry. That was wrong of me to do".

2. Act of Contrition

It's not enough for her to apologize, because then she can crap on you and know that all she has to do is later say, "I'm sorry" and all will be forgiven. No! She has to DO something, like volunteer to take you out to dinner or wash your car or something significant that shows effort. Costs her something. AND she has to volunteer it, you can't tell her she has to do it. It has to come from her. Only then can we consider her apology to be sincere.

But honestly, most women won't do either of the above. Especially a chick who thinks it's okay to "date" another dude and throw it in your face.

 

[wait_out]

I'd say "I'm sorry you're feeling bad and I hope you feel better soon." Then avoid getting sucked into her own personal drama at all costs, until she either grows up or doesn't. You never misrepresented the relationship I hope? This is a chance for her to learn. The first lesson being she proves she's relationship material and not that she automatically is.

It's not your responsibility to cheer her up, it's not her right to manipulate you into commitment if she's become insecure and neurotic. BTW it doesn't work.

If she's cool and classy you hang out, if she's insecure and neurotic you don't. Forget keeping her in your rotation, she's not your property and you're both no longer enjoying yourselves. Scheming how to keep this girl around because you like the sex and her status is immature. If it's become untenable accept it, move on. She's not the only cool and classy girl in the world and even if so, it'd still be a bad deal. Don't play it cool -- BE cool, not 2 adults playing sideways games.

Ethics over emotion. Simple.

 

[jophil28]

You shouldn't just "play it cool" for the weekend.
Play it cool forever. Here's the deal: To be forgiven her trespass against you, she has to

1. call and apologize.

And by "apologize" I don't mean "I'm sorry, but you made me angry/I had PMS/I had to see if I mean anything to you or not." That's not an apology. An apology admits responsibility: "I'm really sorry. That was wrong of me to do".

2. Act of Contrition

It's not enough for her to apologize, because then she can crap on you and know that all she has to do is later say, "I'm sorry" and all will be forgiven. No! She has to DO something, like volunteer to take you out to dinner or wash your car or something significant that shows effort. Costs her something. AND she has to volunteer it, you can't tell her she has to do it. It has to come from her. Only then can we consider her apology to be sincere.

But honestly, most women won't do either of the above. Especially a chick who thinks it's okay to "date" another dude and throw it in your face.

Perfect advice...

However,women cannot, or will not, regard this kind of behavior as unacceptable because women have no ethical code apart from their own 'Code of Convenience .'
What is "right" to them is that which achieves their objectives.
What is "wrong" is what YOU do to her which makes her upset.

 

[Tazman]

While you play it "cool", under no circumstance should you reveal how bothered you were by what she did. Whenever you talk to her act as if it never happened and she's overreacting to your "normal" behavior. As it's been mentioned, if you want something genuine from her she has to do it without you "negotiating". Make your decision from there.

You know the game she tried to pull, no sense in discussing the obvious with her, it only lets her know it worked.

 

[Mr. Me]

What is "right" to them is that which achieves their objectives.
What is "wrong" is what YOU do to her which makes her upset.

That's pretty much true of either gender. We tend to discount our own behavior while magnifying that of others. But women know when they're pulling stuff. What you're seeing as the "what is right to them is that which achieves their objectives" is them rationalizing their actions. "Rationalization" is the attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

If she wanted to make him assess their relationship and try to trigger him to act on his emotional investment, then she could've simply become a little distant, give some space, become busy with work/girlfriends and pull back to see if he then senses the void, misses her and draws closer. Instead she did something disrespectful and unloving. That's a problem, because it tells us something not very good about her. That she's not beyond doing things that could hurt the guy. So while not showing that you took the hit is the thing to do, it still leaves the OP with a woman who thinks nothing of disrespecting their relationship.

 

[vitor]

Isnt it great when you have control of the situation. you have kept emotions in check and ran this very smoothly, you have the upper hand and She Likes you more than you like her which is key. Too many men are in relationships where the woman is the prize and calls all the shots, not here,

 

[VictorK]

i think you've hit the inevitable fork in the road in this relationship with this girl. You could either tell her you want things to remain the way they are and thats it (she could walk or she could stay)....or you could take this casual situation and put the relationship stamp on it. Either way her guilt isnt going to let this situation slide any longer. Good luck

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo Rhoto,


As many of the men here have said already, you’re definitely standing at a crossroad, soldier. Know this:

No man should ever allow himself to be guilted, or strong-armed into a relationship. But also, no man, if he is a man of honor, should let his relationship life become so abstract and/or ethereal in nature that it causes even “HIM” confusion. Actually, there’s probably some truth to the idea that this woman may very well be using your relational ambiguity to fuel her own.

Like it or not, men lead women EVEN when we don’t know where “we’re” going.

Do you get what I’m saying? It’s next to impossible to see a woman, take her out regularly, and fukk her constantly WITHOUT her emotionally having the “girlfriend experience”. And not just talking about you, my man-----we’ve all done this sort of thing to some degree. What you may have inadvertently created here is a relationship vacuum------and this woman “feels” the void and is trying to rush in to fill it by giving it a more concrete definition.

Here's the truth about Fukk Buddies, Friends with Benefits, and "Friends" (in quotation marks):

You'll RARELY hear this on a site like this due to the inordinate amount of pride, ego, and rampaging testosterone that most men allow to clog up their reason. But the truth is...all these types of "pseudo" relationships are volatile in nature----these "relationships" all have a TIME LIMIT attached to them----and the Doomsday Clock begins it’s ticking from the very beginning.

They NEVER stay in the previously agreed upon category. NEVER. Even if you can maintain it for 40 years, I can GARAUNTEE you that on year 41, SOMEBODY will want MORE than what was originally agreed upon.

If a man has a heart and he still has NOT burned his conscience to the point of NO RETURN, and if he keeps routinely fukking a woman, he WILL develop an emotional attachment to that woman whether he intended to or not.

SEX is not just a physical act of release-----it’s also a spiritually, biologically, and emotionally BONDING experience that is designed to KEEP two people TOGETHER----even during those times when they're NOT in the process of having the "SEX".

And if you DOUBT the validity of the above statement, then simply ask yourself:


If sexuality does NOT eventually lead to emotional attachment, and it is NOT The Natural Order of Things, then why is it that most men (and WOMEN) have to fight AGAINST developing ONEitis, rather than fight FOR it? Hmmmmm???


We often like to PRETEND that only women get attached, but that's just a bunch a macho bullshyt. Men get attached too---they just HATE to admit it. Some men who aren't in the Victory Unlimited Army think that any emotional INVOLVEMENT with a woman is WEAK----while MANY men in the “greater” Sosuave Army have been programmed to think that it's simply just-------AFC.

But SOME emotional involvement is natural---and it always leads to some form of attachment over the LONG HAUL---so choose sexual partners WISELY. That's why AFCs lose control and turn into stalkers, killers, or suicide victims. And that's also why so-called DJs (players, macks, human dildos, etc) often hide behind the revolving door of fukking multiple biitches to AVOID the reality of emotional attachment that SURELY awaits them IF they stay with any given woman TOO LONG.

You see, INSIDE we all KNOW that sex is bonding----it's just that some men become quicker and more agile when it comes to running from it than others. But again, IF they still have a heart, even THEIR legs will eventually give out. So that's why they choose to GET THE HELL OUT (of even a possible, newly FORMING relationship bond). Hence, the fukking of multiple biitches once again ensues...

Not many men will willingly tell you this, but after a certain period of time, ALL relationships have to be DEFINED.

Because if they are not, what two people ONCE considered "keeping their options open" then turns into living a life of "relational UNCERTAINTY". And once that happens, what used to be lighthearted and fun turns into a game of power plays, deceit, half-truths, ambiguity, and ultimately ...HURT FEELINGS.

Fukk buddy, friend with benefit, and similar types of situations have a shelf life. AND, if either the woman or the man actually wants MORE----and the other person doesn't, then the end is only a "better PROSPECT" away.

Today, many people persuade themselves that they REALLY are "comfortable" living this much-publicized, noncommittal lifestyle. But quite often, the truth is that they AREN'T.

As evidenced by their sudden REVELATION that they have HURT FEELINGS-----due to the EXISTENCE of an underlying emotional connection that they fought SO hard to avoid from the start.

There are MANY guys here that deny the legitimacy of the bonding experience that sex and repeated exposures to a particular woman can bring. But to me, this is a mask that they wear to hide the fact that they FEEL the "tearing away" effect at the end of these types of initially "casual" couplings.

SOME men, whenever this happens, tend to call EVERYTHING Oneitis in order to soften the blow in an attempt to reframe it----or to call it "ANGER", instead of what it REALLY is sometimes:

GRIEF.

Yes, GRIEF. No matter what you call it, every repetitive human interaction causes a connection-----that produces a new “life”, as it were. Because, you see, "grief" is a word that is ONLY associated with a sense of "loss", when something is taken away from you, or----when something DIES. And the only way a person can feel LOSS is when he knows that on some level, THAT something actually "existed" beforehand.

And that something that "existed", many times IS a "RELATIONSHIP".

No matter what form it has taken, and no matter by what name it was called, a DEFINITE bond previously existed.

Hopefully you are at a point in your life where you can distinguish the difference between a woman who will lift you up in your life pursuits as opposed to one who will weigh you down.

Which type of woman is SHE?

If she’s the former, you have some soul-searching to do. But if she’s the latter, then you already know that you need to just stick to your guns and risk letting the “relationship” continue to live on life-support, or just DIE OUT on it’s own.

That's why I mentioned that never fully defining the nature of a relationship (that CONTINUES on and on) in both consistencies in words AND ACTIONS, can ultimately be the catalyst for confusion. This is the reason why you sense those disturbances to your usually well-focused state of mind, and also why you may be beginning to be haunted by that foreboding sense of loss------because relationships are, in a sense, LIVING things.

And your mind, will, and emotions are simply reacting normally to what may very well be the equivalent of preparing to, unfortunately, attend…

…a FUNERAL.


Much RESPECT and PEACE to you as you continue to go about your life’s mission.




VU